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devil-evil?

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Ides315

Your getting deep.

The answer to that question lies in your ability to comprehend, and differentiate.

God is everything, and NOthing. Religions have divided it into different pieces to make it easier for the masses. It is still your choice which side you support.

God allows all to exist, as all originated from God.

Keep meditating




jilola

God is the singular perfect entity the sparks of which we are.
As a singular being god is neither good nor evil as such valuation require a frame of reference that god does not have.
We, on the other hand, as individual sparks of god can use each  other as reference points and can use terms such as good and evil.
From god's point of view good and evil are just abritrary points of view chosen by individuals.
We exist to learn about relativity and to take the lessons to the divinity that sparked us.
So god is perfect in its singularity but at the same time imperfect as it can't directly know not-god, so to speak. Which is us.
Make sense? I'm not sure...


2cents & L&L

jouni


Ides315

I like it jilola.

I would argue that God is both good and evil, but maybe because I am still stuck in my frame of reference. That God does not see it that way (good & evil) I would agree with. It is up to people what aspects they would choose. Though like still atracts like. This way the spirit can truly choose which path it would follow.


Fenris

Hi Lysear

I just wanted to add that it is a very healthy thing to question your belief system, strive to never be trapped by the fear that can come with challenging your foundations of belief. As we grow from childhood we need to buy bigger cloths due to our growing bodies, as we enhance our perceptions we might need to restructure our beliefs to give us a bit more room to breath as well... yep aint nothing like sound good rambling!

best regards

David

Veni Vidi Vici

Anonymous

I was reading this topic and was thinking about individuals who have committed suicide. I don't know anyone who has but I know some people who have seriously thought about it. I do not believe that everyone who commits suicide goes to hell. God would not punish the loved ones of that person by sending that person to hell. I don't like the idea of suicide and it is difficult to cope with, and I hope I never have to experience the loss of someone I know because they commit suicide. But I think these individuals probably end up in the Buddhic realm where their spirit is healed and they can then be reincarnated to choose their path. If there is such thing as reincarnation, do you believe that there are only a certain number of souls in the Universe? And if this is the case, do you think that it would have some interesting mathematical properties as to which things are good and evil, depending on the reference point from which it is viewed? I think that if there is an even number of finite souls, the balance will be preserved because exactly half of the reference points would see each individual thing as good or evil and  the other half would see those things in exactly the opposite way. On the other hand, if the number of finite souls is odd, I think there would be some sort of perpetual motion thing going on so that the Universe would not nullify itself out of existence. Points of reference would be constantly changing.

"Everything you see or hear or experience in any way at all is specific to you. You create a universe by perceiving it, so everything in the universe you perceive is specific to you."

-Douglass Adams

"Shaolin men and women NEVER give up!"

Lucius

The way its set up in Christianity, the universe is some sort of football match with the good side being the perpetual winner, and the evil side the perpetual losers.

That sucks.

Best not to play that game at all, ever.

Not even as a referree.

L.


naturechick89

from what i understand and what i have read over the past few months, i have come to the cpnclusion that it depends on what ubelive i, iv hear tat the devil is a christian chreation made t scre people into convrting from the old religeions. its truly depends on what u think

kakkarot

"The way its set up in Christianity, the universe is some sort of football match with the good side being the perpetual winner, and the evil side the perpetual losers." that is how the catholic church set it up. christianity isn't about a war between good and evil. it may have that aspect at some points, but christianity is about coming to know who God is and establishing a personal relationship with him. It is sad to see, though, that too many people too many times have been sidetracked and allow their lives to follow smaller issues.

as to omnipotence: it is all powerful, morals don't have anything to do with it. and sure God allows fallen angels to exist. I don't know why, though, that answer is not for me to know.

~kakkarot

user001

Evil is something made up by us as humans. Hitler didnt think hey was doing evil it was good to him, and when people do evil things they have fun doing them, so evil is just made up in evryone's mind for, you decide what evil is.

no_leaf_clover

kakkarot, why would god not want you to know something? why would some things not be meant to be known? i like what fenris said about how questioning your beliefs is very healthy.. by making up excuses to cover up flaws in a religion you're just boxing yourself in, and christianity can be very inconsistent. if you try to figure those kinds of things out, you could get a better understanding of christianity, whether you find it to make more or less sense, whether good or bad.. depending on your point of view, which is what this whole topic is about, right?

about hitler.. i heard a lot of things about how people thought that hitler was insane, because of the way he brainwashed all those people so easily. people 'without' 'sanity' are supposed to be very convincing because they believe so much in what they're saying, but the point of reference thing would also make a lot of sense in that case. hitler's sense of good and evil couldve been opposite from what we are taught to believe. but then again, he killed millions of people, made them suffer, and pain is negative no matter what your point of reference. i dont think ive ever met anyone who both rejects love or positive feelings and enjoys negative feelings and pain..

i dont normally think this hard and im already confused.. so i'll leave it at that.. whatever that is.. o.O
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

kakkarot

no_leaf_clover: when i was talking about God not wanting me to know something i wasn't just talking in a philosophical sort of way, nor in a religious manner.

I have had many times in my life where i really wanted to know WHY something occured. throughout the entire process of it occuring i would question why; i would sometimes ask God, i would sometimes demand an answer, but i was only ever once told. that one time that i was told caused a disaster in the lesson that God wanted me to learn, so i had to learn it all over again.

always, though, anytime that something is happening in my life and i can't figure out why, i just have to wait it out and i learn why when it is over. i have felt very ashamed of my actions during some of those events, and have, after performing dozens of such stupid actions while learning lessons, learned another lesson: to Trust in God. even when i thought that He had abandoned me and that I was going through the worst times of my life alone, He was with me, helping me through. and when those events finished, He showed me exactly how He was there for me.

i didn't always know how or why He wanted things done, which was the true frustration of my faith. now i have learned to trust that God is there with me and that something good will come of it.

and i'm not just talking about a "i realized how God could have been with me" kinda thing. i mean i communicate with God on a daily basis and this is how I know. (though it has been a pain in the butt trying to differentiate God's "voice" from my own, and especially from demon "voices".) for instance, He doesn't want me knowing the exact future time line because we both know that i would just go charging off to try to stop any bad things from happening (i'm not the kind of person who would sit by and let bad things happen if i could do something to change it). but i still have many things left to learn before i am ready to face my destiny. which is why God doesn't tell me, and i'm actually glad for that. [^]

~kakkarot

jilola

This may offend people but I say it anyway...
Blind faith has no meaning and purpose whatsoever.
A conscious and thought out faith is what we should strive for, whatever our chosen cosmology/religion/philosophy is.
My view and belief, and substantiated with some experience, is that we are here to learn what it means to be individual and what it means to be one in an individualistic world. What structure we choose to put that in is up to us and should and must be done with conscious thought.

Devil/evil and absolute/relative good don't exist at all within the context of one existence. There are only actions and non-actions and wehat we choose to call them is up to the societal concensus. Sounds cold, sounds horrible but after you strip away all the inrained doctrine and delusion it is the only thing that remains.

It is also the only thing that can ever give us a solid grasp of our lifetime existence. If you look at life objectively it is a horrific accumulation of suffering, grief and loss interspersed with moments of love and rest. But that's what a lifetime ultimately is.
What we choose to value in a  given life is up to us and the only way we can choose correctly is to stop thinking as individuals and start striving to see us as facets of the whole.

LIfe can be many things and the many things in life can be either heaven or hell, good or evil and it all depends on us seeing what is there instead of what we think is there.

All this doesn't make killing justified, scorn acceptable or lying tellingthe truth. But it does put it all in perspective and thus gives it a direction.

anyhoo, bit of a rant there [:P]

2cents & L&L
jouni

Lysear

does the devill exist? if so is it evil? I find myself questioning the nature of god. If god is omnipotent surely it is "evil" as well as good, otherwise god would not be omnipotent. So surely god is the devil or god allows the devil to exist.

"man makes his own history, but he does not make it out of whole cloth; he does not make it out of conditions chosen by himself but out of such as he finds close at hand. -Karl Marx