How should we deal with evil?

[AmbientSound]

I have read a lot of peoples' thoughts about negs, demons, etc. on boards and forums like Astral Pulse, and a lot of people say that shooting love and light at them makes them go away. However, it appears that not everyone agrees with these results, and as a former spiritual warrior, I have tried many different methods of dealing with entities such as these. Unfortunately, not everyone in the world has the advantage of knowing whether they are being attacked by negs, or sometimes, if they are, what to do about them.

I realize that for some, evil and good do not exist, we all just have our point of view and perception. However, a lot of people believe in an agreed-upon-by-majority definition of evil and good, and that they do exist. I'm going with the majority's definition of what is generally considered evil in this case- that is, killing someone for no reason, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. or otherwise causing harm to someone without even a remotely good intention (committing these acts so that someone besides oneself, somewhere down the line, eventually benefits from it).

I feel it is safe to say that the majority of us want peace, light, and civility in this world. We try to live by our beliefs, and most of us try to deal with bad situations as best we can- roommates we don't get along with, the neighbor that blasts their music at 2 AM, that nasty, grumpy co-worker we have to put up with every day, etc. But sometimes, a greater degree of evil (or actual evil, depending on your definition) rears its ugly head and we end up with horrific situations to deal with, and the circumstances are so horrifying that we cannot help but be beside ourselves pondering the meaning of it all. For example, I saw in the news that one of the terrorists in the Mumbai attacks was seen smiling as he shot random and innocent people, and that Somali pirates had captured yet another commercial ship (one of many in a recent string of offenses), holding it and its crew for a ransom- which they got in the end. I thought about these things for awhile. I cannot imagine smiling while killing a lot of innocent people, nor can I imagine taking a ship and threatening the lives of its crew that had done me no wrong. Nor can I imagine that reasoning with people who do things like this could ever be possible.



What I'm interested to know is how people would deal with hypothetical situations like these:


1) glancing in a direction and realizing a terrorist was about to detonate a bomb, pull out a gun and shoot people, etc- assume there was a very short window of time to stop the terrorist and that they could not be reasoned with.

2) someone breaking into a home, and they have a lethal weapon- gun, knife, crowbar, baseball bat, etc.

3) someone stealing something of great value to someone, either you or someone else, at a place other than home, like a party or a bar.

4) someone trying to take someone's life without an apparent reason, either yours and/or or someone else's.

5) someone commits a horrible crime- i.e. murders one or many people, or injures a lot of people in a way that leaves those people physically deformed. Later, they are caught. What should be done with them?





I think this is more complicated than it appears. Does it make sense to destroy dangerous people (death penalty), keep them drugged constantly so that they cannot move, etc.? How many chances does a person get to show remorse for their evil deeds? Is violence, such as in self-defense, ever okay?

[astral traveler]

i would definitely favor aggressive force if others are committing murder.

[Tayesin]

I have read a lot of peoples' thoughts about negs, demons, etc. on boards and forums like Astral Pulse, and a lot of people say that shooting love and light at them makes them go away. However, it appears that not everyone agrees with these results, .......

Shooting love or light at a 'neg' won't work. Why is it that people hear how to use this tool, Love, properly, then go ahead and use it ineffectively?

I have always approached a 'neg', scanned them and found what remains of the light within them, and then put my arms around them and truly Love them for the misguided/lost Soul that they are. As I do this, a massive amount of Golden Light comes out of my Heart Chakra and flows into the 'neg'. This begins a change in them that they don't want and they do leave.

The following questions are all extreme scenarios, which would elicit extreme behaviors as a response.

1) glancing in a direction and realizing a terrorist was about to detonate a bomb, pull out a gun and shoot people, etc- assume there was a very short window of time to stop the terrorist and that they could not be reasoned with.

If you could reach them before detonating a device, then a handful of throat with crushing pressure will do the job of saving the lives of many. If no time is available to reach the terrorist, then it is time for you to smile and die.

2) someone breaking into a home, and they have a lethal weapon- gun, knife, crowbar, baseball bat, etc.

Easy. Defend your home and family to the best of your ability, if that means deadly force or the use of a weapon in response, then so be it. You havethe  right to defend in your home. You would also probably be actioning some soul agreement in the process.

3) someone stealing something of great value to someone, either you or someone else, at a place other than home, like a party or a bar.

As I've done before, I would apprehend the thief, using tempered physical force as necessary to insure they did not get away, and then hold them until the police arrive.

4) someone trying to take someone's life without an apparent reason, either yours and/or or someone else's.

I would defend myself or others who cannot defend themselves. It is better to die standing up than to live on your knees.

5) someone commits a horrible crime- i.e. murders one or many people, or injures a lot of people in a way that leaves those people physically deformed. Later, they are caught. What should be done with them?

If the are proven guilty beyond all doubt, then we should not waste taxpayers dollars keeping them in jails... about $80 to $100,000 per prisoner per year.

All violent crimes against the population should be answered with the loss of the perpetrators status as a human. They can be euthenased quietly, painlessly, quickly and without media representation.

All violent sexual crimes against children and the elderly should also be dealt with harshly. Perhaps the surgical removal of the offending organs, the tongue and both thumbs... so that they cannot ever speak and must suffer inside themselves, nor can they hold a person against their will or commit the same crime again.

Prison deters few. Many prisoners learn new skills of their trade from other prisoners, and life becomes a round of prison and release, re-offend and more prison. It does not work. So serious penalties must apply for the most serious of crimes.

I think this is more complicated than it appears. Does it make sense to destroy dangerous people (death penalty), keep them drugged constantly so that they cannot move, etc.? How many chances does a person get to show remorse for their evil deeds? Is violence, such as in self-defense, ever okay?

Self defense is okay at any time it is needed, providing the actions do not go beyond what is necessary to achieve the desired results.

For all other confrontations in life, try Love!! Love the person who annoys you, Love the troublemaker, love the liars and cheats for the mis-directed and lost souls that they are in this life. But, maintain your boundaries to what you will accept from them. There is no rule saying you must have them in your life if you don't want them there.

Love can also be killing a violent criminal to show others that the actions will not be tolerated in a caring society. The main problem with capital punishment is it gets abused like all things humans do.

[interception]

1) glancing in a direction and realizing a terrorist was about to detonate a bomb, pull out a gun and shoot people, etc- assume there was a very short window of time to stop the terrorist and that they could not be reasoned with.

While I hope I would never be in a situation like this, I would like to think that I would try to do something about it - tackle the guy or grab his arms or... something, anything to stop him from doing harm to others. The problem is you really need to know what you are doing, or else it is likely you are only going to get yourself killed and others with you. Basically you might just make the situation worse by acting violently. I don't know, it depends very much on the situation whether I will act or not. I agree, militant religiously inspired people like that are not reasonable at all. Quick, effective and decisive action is the only thing that will work, but you gotta be sure you know what your doing.

2) someone breaking into a home, and they have a lethal weapon- gun, knife, crowbar, baseball bat, etc.

I have a collection of japanese swords...  Seriously, if you enter my home with a weapon and without my consent you better be prepared for violent retaliation. It's shoot first ask questions later. I will off course squeeze of some warning shots first.

3) someone stealing something of great value to someone, either you or someone else, at a place other than home, like a party or a bar.

Call the police? Take his/her photo if possible. Try to hold the person there until the authorities arrive...

4) someone trying to take someone's life without an apparent reason, either yours and/or or someone else's.

Interfering in a situation like that without knowing the details can be.... very complicated for you. Again, you gotta really know what you are doing, or you might just make it worse.

5) someone commits a horrible crime- i.e. murders one or many people, or injures a lot of people in a way that leaves those people physically deformed. Later, they are caught. What should be done with them?

If proven beyond doubt that the person is guilty, AND found to be without any likelyhood of reform.... then I think the person should be euthanized by lethal injection. Most prisons are simply hotbeds for even more evil.
I am glad I am not in the position to have to make such decisions though - when is a person beyond reform? 

[Stookie]

Taoist and Buddhist monks invented martial arts to defend themselves against invaders stealing their food. Sometimes ya have to kick some butt for the good of the community.

[Starvingpercussionist]

I believe the answer is to heal your mind by transcending the need to think. Until then, however, anything goes.

[AmbientSound]

I was wondering how many responses would be similar to my own. I think Tayesin's responses most resemble mine, but I also agree with Interception's point about having to know what you're doing in certain situations.

I think terrorists would be valuable for interrogation, as it could save many more lives, and for that reason should be incapacitated (rendered unconscious and then have their limbs bound and mouth gagged) without killing them if at all possible. However, there is not always time to think in those situations, only to react. That is why as a martial artist it is important to train so that you react properly and effectively in a situation.

I believe there is a time and a place for the sword and shield, gun and lock. However, like anything, I do not believe people should obsess over it, and tools like that can sometimes be dangerous in the hands of the overly paranoid.

Does anyone think that making the violent brain-dead permanently, a.k.a. a vegetable, would be better than euthanizing them? No security personnel or prisons needed, just an IV drip to keep them alive, for years, where they can only ponder what they have experienced. Maybe their body heat could be harnessed for energy? Maybe it is possible to do this temporarily for less severe crimes.

The next question is, since these situations do take place in our world, how can we make the transition from having these horrible things occur to not having them occur? What would it take to end violence and evil forever? What changes should be made to society and government, if any?

[Tayesin]

The next question is, since these situations do take place in our world, how can we make the transition from having these horrible things occur to not having them occur? What would it take to end violence and evil forever? What changes should be made to society and government, if any?

What a brilliant set of questions.

Q1. Time for this mindset of Might is Right to reach it's natural conclusion, for all the cultures to reach their natural demise followed by anarchy, which will eventually die down after a few years and those remaining that hold positive intentions build a new culture based on honesty and equality. Until then, we are stuck with seeing this mindset through to completion. If we don't, we run the chance of repeating similar mistakes.

Q2. A major series of events that kill millions and leave the remainder to sort it all out into the future... or a major alien invasion that would make humanity pull together for a change.

Q3. Huge changes would need to be made at all levels of society. Everyone would need to feel as if they belong and are cared for by their society, so that they no longer need to form gangs, enact crime, etc, to get what they believe they need or deserve. The education systems would need a major overhaul into a state of honesty and openess so that each child in education receives exactly what they need to make the most of their talents. Basically, everything humans do on this world would need to change. The process of government would act more effectively if they were only paid the minimum wage plus one or two perks, if there were no parties... only people who run in order to make positive actions for the whole... in this way, you will have people in government who are there for the good they can do and not for the money, lifestyles andf Power.

Lastly, I don't think we will see enough change through choice. I think it is important for this might is right mindset to be completely finished with so we don't repeat. And another thing, we would be making a mistake to choose another matriarchal based society, as that didn't work the last time which is why we have this patriarchal society, which also doesn't work. So the answer must be in creating something NEW, something we haven't done before like building societies based on REAL equality for all, etc.

[interception]

Does anyone think that making the violent brain-dead permanently, a.k.a. a vegetable, would be better than euthanizing them?

I don't see the point in that. You wont be helping people get better at all by keeping them in a veg state, unless you can somehow inflict some sort of controlled virtual life review lucid dream state to help them heal. There are better systems in place for that after death though (but off course, opinions differ on this as well).

Maybe their body heat could be harnessed for energy?

The human body is not the most efficient source of energy, but okay.

The next question is, since these situations do take place in our world, how can we make the transition from having these horrible things occur to not having them occur? What would it take to end violence and evil forever? What changes should be made to society and government, if any?

This is a very complex problem. To simplify: lets assume that most everyday evil deeds are the result of selfish greed. Selfish greed can, for the most part, be addressed by ending material scarcity. If we can eliminate this factor by introducing advanced technology that can supply anything any human can possibly want in terms of material needs and wants, that might go some way towards ending everyday evils.

Variety creates interesting situations and different opinions. Problem is, different opinions inevitably lead to some sort conflict, but it is how that conflict is handled between various groups that needs to change. How? I don't know. Maybe it just takes a lot more time. Certain groups seem so primitive still. Maybe as we evolve people will come to see what some of the people on this board have seen and then, gradually, all the BS crap of this world will go away.

Problem is, we seem to be running out of time...

[Stookie]

Self-improvement is really the only improvement an individual can have faith in. And then set an example that might inspire others to do the same. Live the way you in which you wish everyone would.

But expecting others to change is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[no_leaf_clover]

1) glancing in a direction and realizing a terrorist was about to detonate a bomb, pull out a gun and shoot people, etc- assume there was a very short window of time to stop the terrorist and that they could not be reasoned with.

If I was close by and didn't feel like dying,  I would try to kill him if necessary or else just try to get out of the way.

2) someone breaking into a home, and they have a lethal weapon- gun, knife, crowbar, baseball bat, etc.

Placing so much value on material possessions is evil.  I would leave him alone.

3) someone stealing something of great value to someone, either you or someone else, at a place other than home, like a party or a bar.

Same, I would let them.  If anyone asked,  I would say something,  but I wouldn't stop them in the process or make a big deal about it.

4) someone trying to take someone's life without an apparent reason, either yours and/or or someone else's.

I would do what I could I guess.

5) someone commits a horrible crime- i.e. murders one or many people, or injures a lot of people in a way that leaves those people physically deformed. Later, they are caught. What should be done with them?

What "should" be done with them? Let them go.  But what "should" happen is also what anybody decides to do.

I think this is more complicated than it appears. Does it make sense to destroy dangerous people (death penalty), keep them drugged constantly so that they cannot move, etc.? How many chances does a person get to show remorse for their evil deeds? Is violence, such as in self-defense, ever okay?

I once read something very inspiring in the Bhagavad Gita.  Before it can be put into context, there is the idea that your soul incarnates in human forms over and over and over again, and the whole purpose of this is so your soul can have these experiences and learn and grow from them.

Your soul is indestructible.  So Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that you should not fear death,  or feel remorse for the dead,  or even look down upon killing,  for all of these things are a part of life and are to be experienced.  Truly they are very horrible things from our perspective,  but the "higher" perspective is that you are going to die anyway and this particular life is only a drop in the bucket.

In fact, the whole Bhagavad Gita is set before a huge battle, and the leader of one side is grieving because he realizes how futile and senseless the destruction before him is about to be,  and how many good people will die for no good reason.  Krishna suddenly appears in the form of his chariot driver,  and proceeds to explain to the leader that he should not grieve, but should go out to the battlefield as great leaders do,  and to cause as much bloodshed as he possibly can.  Krishna's point of view is elaborated upon throughout the rest of the text,  and it is a very deep and enlightening read.

[AmbientSound]

Interception, I agree that ending material scarcity would probably solve most of the everyday evils. In another forum, I proposed that a sufficient advancement and proper use of technology would be a viable means to doing this, among other things. I have even come up with what I believe is a feasible transition to that state of civilization. I also agree that different opinions inevitably lead to conflict, and I believe the solution to that conflict is to look at what values factor into those opinions. Things quickly get muddled when we try to agree on a common definition of something, such as moral conduct, which can often times be traced back to religious beliefs. Muslims believe that womens' bodies should be covered so that strange men are not tempted by them, for example, while the majority of people in Western society would have a problem with that because it conflicts with their value of freedom. This is a conflict between the values of freedom and safety. These two values are universally held by cultures around the world, though it does not always appear that way due to the way certain governments conduct themselves.

No-Leaf Clover, I understand and agree with your Buddhist philosophies, and I am familiar with the example you have cited concerning the war. If you can't stop it, then there's no point in worrying about it. It is better to go on about your business and concern yourself with that which you are able to change and those choices which you are able to make.

All of life is a learning experience, and if it is true that we reincarnate to learn and grow from all experiences, then I would think that the earth would also evolve because of this. But if new souls are always being born, then there is a problem: the more experiences we have had here, the less souls that can incarnate at one time to experience things like being super-rich and having astronomical amounts of power at their disposal. This creates a sort of bottle-neck in the learning process, or so it would seem.

I would feel a need to say something if I saw someone stealing something from someone else, and if someone broke into my home brandishing a weapon, I would feel that I had no other alternative than to stand up to them, and if necessary, engage in physical combat. I do agree that placing too much emphasis on material possessions is not a good thing, but at the same time, I don't believe people should get away with stealing something. I recognize that there needs to be a balance with this, as some material possessions are tools that can aid in the betterment of others' lives (tools for building houses or making goods, musical instruments to bring happiness and celebration, etc.) Karma could teach them a lesson, but nowhere does it say that one cannot act as an instrument of that karma if they feel so inclined. 

The real question, then, is that, with the knowledge that one's time on the earth is finite, what will one decide to do with that time?

One way I sometimes see the Universe is as an enormous quantum calculator, running through absolutely every single possibility, slightly directed by goodwill. The creation of the Universe was a very violent affair indeed, what with the Big Bang explosion and all, and the constant collision of celestial objects shortly (relatively speaking) thereafter. I believe these violent events are taking place far less than they used to, but with stars constantly birthing and dying, black holes swallowing star systems, etc., it's hard to say. I believe, though, that the Universe needs to calculate all the possibilities connected with violence first, starting with the most violent possibilities, to create the conditions needed to calculate lesser and lesser violent situations and manifestations. What happens when you shake up a bottle of cola? At first, there's nothing but bubbles, but in a few seconds, the turmoil sorts itself out and the bubbles rise to the top while the liquid falls to the bottom (caution: aim away from face when opening.   ).

Tayesin, I agree that the Might is Right mindset should come to its natural conclusion. Sometimes we don't know when to get out of our own way as a species. Often times it is better to let people fight it out than to keep them apart and let their anger simmer within them. Experience can be a harsh teacher, but it is also a patient one, willing to repeat itself if necessary, and always effective eventually.

Stookie, I agree with you that what it comes down to is a personal choice for each of us individually, and that expectation often leads to disappointment. However, it has been proven by the advertising industry that it is possible to influence peoples' decisions and annoy the heck out of them in the process, while cutting off the escape. Right now, humanity is like a bunch of salmon, swimming up-stream, fighting a powerful current of suggestion and influence to get where it wants to be. This in itself produces a great deal of energy, which some believe is used by negative forces to sustain themselves. That makes sense, actually. There are more people choosing to fight this current, which is a good thing, though there are still many who are content to go along with it, no matter where it leads them. The tactics of the advertising industry are being picked up on and used by more and more people and groups for whatever cause they are trying to promote. This is good because it dilutes the negative content and messages of advertising.

[Starvingpercussionist]

"Give evil nothing to oppose and it will disappear by itself."
-Tao Te Ching

"In my defenselessness lies my safety."
-ACIM

Where is the line between vengeance and justice? Everybody needs and wants unconditional love just the same, you'd know this if you would come into alignment with it. To say that you want anything else is insane, because there is no feeling that is left out of unconditional love, thus whatever it is that you could want is there. For instance, why would one kill a man to satisfy one's rage when that same satisfaction lies in unconditional love? The answer is only that unconditional love wasn't there.

This is why I said to heal your mind. The only thing keeping you from unconditional love is the mind's condition of needing to think because it keeps you from being completely present in the now. Unify and balance all aspects of the mind, transcend the need to think, this is the only way to open up to the unlimited flow. You can't be right and be love, because love sees no separation or difference, while being right depends upon being separate from what is perceived to be wrong.


...But don't listen to me, or to the wisdom I place my belief upon. It's just impractical nonsense anyways.

[interception]

I would not call it impractical nonsense at all, it is just very difficult to put into practice if one interacts with the complicated modern human world on a daily basis.
Now if you were living as a hermit in the forest somehwere, that might be a bit easier to maintain unconditional unversal love. 

[Starvingpercussionist]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it would be very useful to the world to maintain it as a hermit (not to mention, it probably wouldn't be real anyways if you had to shelter yourself from society in order to hold it). I would agree that it's very difficult to maintain one's peace of mind in this world of ever more complex distractions and diversions, but I still believe that unconditional love is the only answer that works, despite how impossibly difficult it seems it is to make that state stay permanent regardless of circumstances.

I know love is not an immediate answer to extreme situations like these when it is not able to be fully present, but trust me, it's the only thing people really want. In unconditional love, love is primary, and all else is secondary. It's not just a feeling, dude. I'm talking about a miracle. If it's dependant upon condititions (or 'circumstances' to say it differently) it's not the real thing.

[EDIT]
But until love is there, like I said, anything goes. It doesn't matter how you deal with evil, because until you've attained unconditional love the capacity for the same evil you see outside yourself still exists somewhere within you. So, yes, protect yourself and others if you can. Do what you can to reasonably stop evil if you have the chance, do whatever you feel would be best - just realize that your actions are not the ultimate answer.

[AmbientSound]

Starvingpercussionist, I see what you are saying. Unconditional love, as you define it, is the state of unity in which one has merged with the entire Universe (including all of its dimensions, aspects, and both physical and nonphysical attributes). Assuming we reach this state, are we, then, truly in control of everything inside of us, which would be literally everything? How does this change the concept of free will? If others are not outside of ourselves, what becomes of their free will?

To understand unconditional love (assuming it is our natural state), we must experience conditional love. How does a thing relate only to itself without first having to be outside of itself? (hence the paradox) Since conditional and unconditional love are apparently separate things, 'unconditional love' may not be the proper term to convey the concept which you are trying to communicate. Perhaps there is only the freedom of perspective, and unconditional love is just one of infinite perspectives which we are free to have. It is possible that we are all merely observers, and that what we experience as humans is a result of the pieces of knowledge we do not see. Perhaps it is the absence, not the presence, that defines our experience.

[Starvingpercussionist]

Perhaps it would be simpler to think of unconditional love as an unstoppable love. The only difference between conditional love and unconditional love then is that conditional love can be stopped.

You ask if, when reaching this state, one would be in control of everything and what that would do to free will.

My understanding is this:

The free will of others is just as much of an illusion as mine is. When there are no conflicting desires in the way of unconditional love, then there is no illusion of free will because there is nothing to choose between since you know only love. Love is our natural state, all desires or thoughts (the components of the ego) are simply displacements of that love which give a false dichotomy of choice. All you need to do to experience unconditional love is to come into alignment with it by removing all of your "blocks" to it (I think they're more like imbalances than blocks, but functionally they are blocks and as long as one of these exists in your mind it holds the potential of all the rest). Paradoxically you wouldn't really be controlling anything, or be controlled by anything. You would simply be in an indescribable bliss, and your illusion of free will would be brought to Truth. You would still be you though, in fact you'd be more truly yourself in this state than you ever possibly could be otherwise - and you would be allowing others to be the same. All negative or selfish desires would dissapear because they would be fulfilled by the presence of love.

Perhaps it is the absence, not the presence, that defines our experience.

I think you are definitely on track with that, because I think that unconditional love is an undefined experience - the ineffable answer to any unanswerable paradox. 

By the way, you've asked a very necessary philosophical question in this thread. Sorry if I come across as being a know-it-all or something - I admit I have yet to make this state permanent in myself, although I am actively working on that all the time. I have come into alignment with it before though, so I do have some experience with it. 

[interception]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it would be very useful to the world to maintain it as a hermit (not to mention, it probably wouldn't be real anyways if you had to shelter yourself from society in order to hold it).

True.

I would agree that it's very difficult to maintain one's peace of mind in this world of ever more complex distractions and diversions,

Yeah, but one point of view (which I rather like) is that we chose to incarnate on this world in order to experience this place's distractions and diversions...

But until love is there, like I said, anything goes. It doesn't matter how you deal with evil, because until you've attained unconditional love the capacity for the same evil you see outside yourself still exists somewhere within you. So, yes, protect yourself and others if you can. Do what you can to reasonably stop evil if you have the chance, do whatever you feel would be best - just realize that your actions are not the ultimate answer.

Well sure, nobody is perfect. That is kind of the point of this experience we call life. A superbeing with unconditional love would probably upset the applecart and "ruin" the earth experience. 
Somebody will probably come and take such a person away... saying something like: "Okaaaaay Mr Smartypants, you found the cheat codes, so its time for you to move on."
If you are following me... 

[Stookie]

I believe that maintaining a peace of mind in today's society is much more simple than most think. It's not that the world is full of distractions, but that we let ourselves get distracted. We choose those things that distract us. It's very easy to turn the TV off. It's easy to stay out of debt if you live within your means. For most, a simple life would be living in a cabin in the woods, but only as long as they have satellite, internet, dishwashers, etc. - things that make life "simple". In reality, a simple life is hard work, and CAN be applied in today's society.

The more that people go along with unnecessary and "evil" things, the more others think it's not only OK, but a normal way to live. Living life by your own standards, even with little money, is liberating. And sets an example for your children and others in society. So much of what we think we need, we don't need at all.

[Starvingpercussionist]

Yeah, but one point of view (which I rather like) is that we chose to incarnate on this world in order to experience this place's distractions and diversions...

Sure, I mean there's a lot of different ways to look at why we incarnate here. However I believe that there is only one eternally self-evident Truth - call it oneness, love, pure objectivity, or perhaps just the present moment. The distractions lead you away from that Truth and into "illusions" (which to you can be quite real, except that they only exist in your mind). It's not that in love the worldly distractions would be gone (obviously), it's just that you couldn't be distracted by them. Outside of Truth, there is only suffering. It may be hidden, masked, or in your face, but it's always there because there is something missing. That gnawing emptiness inside of people can only be filled by love, but until it is they will continue to fall into "illusions" by becoming involved in distractions in an attempt to ignore or placate that void.

So I guess it's possible that we come here to experience the distractions and suffer from ignorance and the loss of love, but what's the point of that? What's the point of anything apart from love?

Well sure, nobody is perfect. That is kind of the point of this experience we call life. A superbeing with unconditional love would probably upset the applecart and "ruin" the earth experience.   

I just don't see how Truth could ruin anything but falsity. How could someone who has simply balanced and healed his mind ruin anything by just his presence?

Somebody will probably come and take such a person away... saying something like: "Okaaaaay Mr Smartypants, you found the cheat codes, so its time for you to move on."

Aww, come on now. Who would do that to a healer? Wait, don't answer that, haha. 

I believe that maintaining a peace of mind in today's society is much more simple than most think. It's not that the world is full of distractions, but that we let ourselves get distracted. We choose those things that distract us. It's very easy to turn the TV off. It's easy to stay out of debt if you live within your means. For most, a simple life would be living in a cabin in the woods, but only as long as they have satellite, internet, dishwashers, etc. - things that make life "simple". In reality, a simple life is hard work, and CAN be applied in today's society.

The more that people go along with unnecessary and "evil" things, the more others think it's not only OK, but a normal way to live. Living life by your own standards, even with little money, is liberating. And sets an example for your children and others in society. So much of what we think we need, we don't need at all.

Yeah, but there are so many demands put upon you to conform or make money when you are stuck in society. I really don't think it's so simple to ignore the distractions of society when you have no choice but to be in it. But otherwise I completely agree with you.

[AmbientSound]

A big part of being a sovereign, spiritual being is taking absolute and full responsibility for one's choices. One must think about (or consider might be a better word) what is at stake and the probabilities of what might occur, chances of success, etc., as all choices are a risk. That is really what it comes down to. You can choose to be a part of society, or not. But there are consequences, and spiritual beings and the law do not always see eye-to-eye. What is at stake, and how much does it mean to you?

Everyone is in a constant state of flux. Truth is always changing, and that is why it is so elusive to most people. Most are uncomfortable with change. Laziness is a quality of the ego, and the reason I mention laziness here is because most people are lazy and therefore dislike change. It means they have to re-observe everything. It means they have to keep moving and find a way to fit in. They have to change things about themselves. They have to evolve and adapt to the new environment. One of the main problems with the world is the environment, which humans are adapting to suit THEIR needs rather than the other way around.

Perhaps we were never in control to begin with. We have a predisposition put in place at conception by our genes and chemical make-up and the environment that surrounds us. How much of that affects us? Our environment is what we see. Our genes and biochemical activities determine how we respond to the stimuli that comes from our environment. We develop habits and behavioral patterns. Let's not forget to mention the positions of the stars and planets at the time of our birth.

That is the mountain that we must overcome to get to unconditional love. Well, for some maybe it's a mountain and for others it might just be a slight slope. It all depends. Are you born in a Third World country to a couple that is wondering whether they will live or die from day to day or are you born to a super-rich couple who own a trillion-dollar corporation?

Anyway, my point is this: you are given a set of components at birth, and out of them, you must create yourself. That is all you can do, look to see how the people around you are acting, and try to learn something from them.

[Stookie]

Yeah, but there are so many demands put upon you to conform or make money when you are stuck in society. I really don't think it's so simple to ignore the distractions of society when you have no choice but to be in it. But otherwise I completely agree with you.

Nobody is stuck in society, or it be demanded that they conform or make lots of money. I feel sorry for those that feel that way (they need to read some Thoreau). It may be something you're born into, but you choose to continue to participate at a certain point. I suppose for younger people still in school, you do still have to submit, but after that you have no one to blame but yourself. I look at people in society and wonder if people really get any true enjoyment out of the way they choose to live. What's so hard about imagining how you would really want to live, and then doing it? (of course you have to differentiate between your fantasies and a real way of living). I did it. My parents were very apprehensive of my decisions at first, but they're proud of me now.

I live a very simple, fairly easy life based on ideals I gleaned from Thoreau, Steiner, and Taoism. I'll admit, I've had to work to get here, but I'm living comfortably by my own standards. If I had done what was expected of me, life would probably suck. Maybe materially richer, but sucky. I also feel like I get to experience something everyday that almost everyone else around me totally misses out on. And it's so simple.

Anyways, don't let society's "rules" decide your life.

I also apologize if I'm a bit off topic, but for me, this is kind of the cornerstone to a well-balanced society.

[Starvingpercussionist]

Hmm. It's just that I don't see how I could escape society right now. For instance, suppose I wanted to go to some self-sustainable spiritually oriented place like Crestone, Colorado. I'd still have to learn a trade to make myself useful there, not to mention have some money to travel there and buy necessities. So for the time being, I'd have go to college and have an occupation, and deal with worldly folks in the meantime. So, to me, it just seems like I'd have to be stuck. 

[EDIT] Crap. Should have read your post better.

It may be something you're born into, but you choose to continue to participate at a certain point. I suppose for younger people still in school, you do still have to submit, but after that you have no one to blame but yourself.

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

[AmbientSound]

The good thing about the Internet is that from it we can learn whatever we need to know. If the information itself isn't on the Internet,  you can at least find out where to get it and how much money you might have to pay for it.

There are other things, though, that only you know, and only you will ever know. You know better than anyone and everyone else who you are and what is important to you. You have a right to be yourself, regardless of whether or not anyone else accepts you for who you are, and you don't have to let society get in the way of that.

I know what it's like to feel like to not fit in with society as much as anyone. From day one of kindergarten I have been an outcast, but I have become less and less of one over the years. I have been dealing with old familial patterns that are detrimental to healthy social development, self-worth, and self-esteem. They are difficult to describe, but a lot of it has to do with insecurities and the need to feel in control. I have been living alone for the past couple of years, though, and I have come a long way in that time, realizing the freedom that I have.

In any case, a path that leads away from society is often a lonely one. I feel it is better to be a part of society to help improve it and bring it to a state where it is balanced.

[interception]

I know what it's like to feel like to not fit in with society as much as anyone. From day one of kindergarten I have been an outcast, but I have become less and less of one over the years. I have been dealing with old familial patterns that are detrimental to healthy social development, self-worth, and self-esteem. They are difficult to describe, but a lot of it has to do with insecurities and the need to feel in control. I have been living alone for the past couple of years, though, and I have come a long way in that time, realizing the freedom that I have.

In any case, a path that leads away from society is often a lonely one. I feel it is better to be a part of society to help improve it and bring it to a state where it is balanced.

Agree with you and I think I understand where you are coming from, since my experiences seem to parallel yours.