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Author Topic: Philosophical Proof For Reincarnation  (Read 4626 times)
GroovyGoddess
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« on: January 07, 2007, 07:54:38 »

I know many people are going to debate this, but that is a good thing.

Lately, I have been thinking about existence and it seems to me that the proof for the reason that we're here is incredibly simple:

We have a desire to exist...

Some part of us has not yet reached full expression.

Therefore, I think rebirth here happens to those who have not reached full expression of every potential that this phase of existence has to offer. But, I think it would be very premature to say that after the physical cycles, our evolution just stops. There could be experiences in store for us that we cannot even possibly imagine right now.

However, not to digress, our desires are constantly being fulfilled by the universal mind. So therefore, why would existence be any different?

We desire to exist, therefore we do...

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Goober
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 00:23:49 »

That's not proof, but it is a very good theory.
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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 00:23:49 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Principle
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 05:02:33 »

Desire to exist? How do you explain Sucidial people?
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MisterJingo
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 17:53:00 »

I know many people are going to debate this, but that is a good thing.

Lately, I have been thinking about existence and it seems to me that the proof for the reason that we're here is incredibly simple:

We have a desire to exist...

What’s the difference between a desire to exist and an inbuilt desire to survive? Genetic propagation of physical beings (who might not even be sentient – just be built to believe so) is as good a reason as any as to why we’re here. All metaphysical ideas are purely belief driven and unprovable outside of that belief.

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Some part of us has not yet reached full expression.

Expression of what? To what purpose? By full expression do you mean perfection? If so, taking that perfection is a relative concept (perhaps only having existence within the human built sphere of understanding and knowledge) such a state is impossible to achieve. Also, if we look at reality, and see how it is changing – changing even on a quantum level (such that structured reality might only be a temporary phenomenon) what we experience right here and now might be but a fleeting moment. Perfection in such a construct is nothing. It is a temporary state.

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Therefore, I think rebirth here happens to those who have not reached full expression of every potential that this phase of existence has to offer. But, I think it would be very premature to say that after the physical cycles, our evolution just stops. There could be experiences in store for us that we cannot even possibly imagine right now.

Why would it be premature? How can we surmise from a totally physical experience that there is more? How can we explain what neuroscience shows us regarding personality, behaviour and specific brain action? How can we explain region specific brain damage having devastating effects on peoples personalities – which implies at the least our brain directs a lot of who we are? There is so much which points in the other direction, that at the least, standard mystical models need a drastic overhaul.

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However, not to digress, our desires are constantly being fulfilled by the universal mind. So therefore, why would existence be any different?

Desire is fleeting, so is mind and existence. You start from a viewpoint of there being more than physical but don’t give any grounds for this belief. Conclusions generated from assumptions are baseless. Regarding existence, we might not actually exist at all. We might simply be biological mechanical beings confabulating our own existence, providing our own proofs of our own beliefs – and so the prospect of us actually being automations is forever inconceivable.

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We desire to exist, therefore we do...

Many people desire for many things, yet, those things to not manifest. A mystical model can brush such things under the carpet by spewing rhetoric about lessons to learn (which in the context of temporary reality mean nothing), but they don’t really explain anything. Many are simply relics of an age where lightening and thunder were Gods, where the wind through mountain passes were deities, and Earth was flat, covered by a crystal sphere and the universe revolved around ourselves (because we were the most important things in existence).

Also, recent research has shown that thought is not needed for one to be aware of mind and self. So that old statement “I think therefore I am” could be soon be proven false – in this light, anything built off it would be false too.


The point of this post? Read, research even outside of your own preferred beliefs. Question everything including that questioning, and start to worry when you fall into a rut of unchanging beliefs – because reality even at its most fundamental level is forever changing. Time itself might just be change (entropy). To think we have the answers, to perhaps think there are any answers outside of those we create ourselves, might lead us up illusionary paths.
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Mydral
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 18:06:00 »

Desire for creation, or existance does not equal existance.
You need way more then desire to exist to acctually live.

You see your desire to live is not life itself... its what you do in your life. You can test this by yourself:
Go into your closet, turn off all the lights so its pitchblack. Get food and water (nothing fancy just what u need to survive) delivered...... trust me you will want to stop living like that after a while. That prooves that we do not have a desire for life itself at all... life itself sucks badly.
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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 18:06:00 »



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Principle
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 20:56:04 »

It's not so much what we do in our life, It's what we can feel with our senses.
We all have a desire to live Life, To see and experience new things, to learn and to grow.

Wiether it be Physically, Mentally, or Spiritually.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 20:59:38 by Principle » Logged
Seeking ET
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 03:00:25 »

I personally believe in reincarnation as a choice and a reality.  Free will is hard to debate, because it's clearly something that we all possess.  I think that reincarnation kind of negates what we do in this life.  If we are simply born again, then it matters very little what we do in this life.  I believe that we have all live many MANY lives before, and that upon death, if we are unsatisfied with our decisions, or haven't yet experienced something in this world that we wish to, then we can choose, not be forced, to return again to fulfill those experiences.
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zappazorn
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2007, 22:28:54 »

From my understanding there is no independent being or entity migrating from life to life, body to body, but merely the perpetual appearance and reappearance of a faulty assumption.
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Principle
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2007, 03:25:40 »

From my understanding there is no independent being or entity migrating from life to life, body to body, but merely the perpetual appearance and reappearance of a faulty assumption.

Can you elaborate further?
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ubiquitous
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 12:45:04 »

I think what he's saying is nobody's going to knock on your door and say that they have been in a past life and tell you where they buried what is now a 500yr old plate he used to eat out of.
Or maybe you would like to speak to colin fry or derek out of almost live.
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Nay
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 16:00:42 »

I don't understand why it is an offensive belief to some.   I, with my whole body and soul believe in past-lives.  I suppose not everyone one has to choose to come back time and time again until they feel they've learned all there is, but if they choose not to come back..then what?  Does that energy just float around in the astral for the rest of time?  Do you continue to learn and grow?

Interesting.
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zappazorn
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2007, 08:45:19 »

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zappazorn: From my understanding there is no independent being or entity migrating from life to life, body to body, but merely the perpetual appearance and reappearance of a faulty assumption.


Quote
Principle: Can you elaborate further?

Hi Principle, all,

Within a body there is nothing you can find that is a soul or self energy. I'm not saying there is no self and that there is just material elements and thats it, but just that the ultimate nature of a being does not exist within a body or outside a body.

When a person does not know their true nature they have a faulty assumption of who and what they are.
Like if a person did not know that there shadow was merely a display of certain conditions such as light, the body blocking the light etc. and because they did not know the actual nature of their shadow they came to a false assumption that it was an actual being following them around. He would wonder where this being comes from when it appears and where it goes when it disappears. Every idea he would have about the shadow would be false because it would be rooted in delusion. That doesnt mean the delusion wouldnt be experienced as real because everytime he saw the shadow or thought about the shadow that particular thought world would arise and be experienced. This deluded view will always arise until he realizes the actual nature of the shadow; that it is merely a display of conditions, that it is not real in itself, just an appearance.

When one doesnt know the nature of the mind, it is assumed as an entity that expereinces an environment, experiences pain and pleasure, does good and bad actions. This identity is the result of ignorance, just like the shadow-being is the result of the persons ignorance of their shadows nature.
Ones true nature does not go anywhere or come from anywhere, its what makes this display we call reality possible. So one has eternity to cling to a deluded view because one is not actually going anywhere. Its just the appearance of identity birthing and dieing simply because one is ignorant of there true nature. Also the actions one performs has a direct influence on the condition of the identity and the way the identity views its world. For example, if the identity is conditioned heavily by negative states such as hatred, greed and jealousy, the identity views and experiences the world through this hostile condition. When the identity is in a  hostile environment, he is more likely to react in a hostile manner, reconditioning  his hostile idenity and hostile world view. The condition of the identity will condition its particular form, a mind with the condition of an animal cannot express as a human form. Though a human through particular actions can condition his identity in an animalistic direction and in the next "life" appear as an animal. This all has to do with karma, which is so tightly tied in with reincarnation.

My understanding is that ultimatly reincanation doesnt happen, it just appears to happen. One isnt actually human, animal, demon, heavenly being etc. one just appears that way because of actions which spring from delusion.






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