life after death

[RJA]

quote:Originally posted by T_Kman0610

...when saying they have answers is like saying they died and came back and said this is where you go. well in that case, i dont believe it because they could of just did an OBE or dreamed they died and came back or something.

I've read a lot on near-death experiences.  Typically, the accounts are similar to an OBE except that they share more similarities - leaving body, going through a tunnel, life review, being told it's not their time, etc.  So, I guess an OBE is a specific type of Astral Projection.

It seems to me that there is a physical/spiritual mechanism built into us humans that facilitates the transfer of the energy body out of the physical.  This mechanism gets invoked at death and can sometimes get triggered by conditions that would normally lead to death, but in some cases don't.  Advances in emergency medicine probably have increased the incidence of NDEs because more people are pulled back from the brink of death.  It seems that this mechanism is also invoked in some way or to some extent by Astral Projection, certain hallucinagens, etc.

quote:who said that when you die you go through 7 stages of the astral planes?

The Tibetan Book of the Dead is one source that describes this process.

quote:who said that it depends on how you were in the physical is where you go in the astral. i believe noone has an answer of these sort of things but only oppinions.

I've read various theories on this, but I think the idea of it is that we are composed of energy and are attracted to like energies.  But who knows why these opinions should be considered valid.  I've often questioned myself why people seem so sure that an astral projection is any kind of indication at all of what happens after death.

And regarding where we go after we die, you're right in that no one can say for sure because if they came back it means they didn't quite die - at least they didn't complete the process.  I'd just say read a wide variety of theories and interpretations, pray over a long period of time that the Holy Spirit would guide you into a better understanding and don't worry about it.  We're all going to find out sooner or later.

Note that there are many mystical forms of Christianity that tell of esoteric (secret) interpretations to Christian doctrine that treat the main components (Creation, fall of man, Christ's death, Revelations, etc.) as symbolic representations of the process of evolution that each soul goes through on it's way back to God.  For me, these interpreations of Christianity answer a lot more of those nagging questions and hold together a lot better.  They also seem to coexist peaceably with other religions because they lend themselves to interpretation that different world religions (as well as physics and intergral psychology, imo) are the reuslt of viewing or approaching God from a different angle (the 3 blind men and the elephant).

If you're interested a good book is "Putting on the Mind of Christ" by Jim Marion.  It's a tough read (based on Ken Wilber's theory of the evolution of consciousness) and I rolled my eyes at parts of it, but over all I thought it did an excellent job of explaining the Christian message from a different perspective - especially the last third of the book or so (the first part spends a certain amount of time describing his personal journey, which may or may not be of interest to some people).  Also, "Adventures Beyond the Body" by William Buhlman gives an interesting perspective on the universe and whatnot. []

[beavis]

I have no way to know how high above astral I will go (mental plane, etc). I'm sure I will continue to exist after my body dies. Every month, my brain thinks more like my spirit. If this continues, when I die it will be a smooth transition of consciousness because they will be similar. I choose not to incarnate on earth again. My spirit told my brain that.

RJA "I've often questioned myself why people seem so sure that an astral projection is any kind of indication at all of what happens after death."

Because I can see things that my body cant in the physical world and more. I've done things similar to the card test. Astral projection is out of the body, so the bodies death wont stop it.

[DjM]

It's like...getting out of one car and getting into another.

Having a vision is one thing; understanding it is another.  Many people are in a hurry to "see" something.  Who is to say that they'll understand it?  This is why the Mystery Schools prepared their students BEFORE the went "out and about."

The formula appears to be that people want to be well-developed, but they don't want to work toward it...kind of like playing a musical instrument.

If 10 people see something in the Spiritual world, you'll typically get 10 different opinions.  If we send 10 reporters to a scene, we'll get 10 stories- similar, different, etc...  As is above, so is below.

The Spiritual world is NOT trivial.  It takes a lot of work to gain understanding.  As one gains understanding, one cannot typically be understood by those who have not approached the topic.

[JoWo]

Hello T_Kman0610,

Some very smart people have spent a lifetime to study your question about life after death.  One good example is Victor Zammit.  He is a lawyer and claims that he has enough evidence of life after death that he could win his case in any legal court.  You may want to visit his website www.victorzammit.com.

Greetings!
Jo.

[beavis]

"Some very smart people have spent a lifetime to study your question about life after death."

Thousands of years ago, some people spent a lifetime pulling their stuff on flat things with a rope. Then some schmuck carved a wheel from a rock, and probably did it fast compared to a lifetime, and showed those people how worthless their efforts were. The time you spend does not guarantee the correct answer. A good idea can answer a question in a short time even if millions of people have done endless work on the topic.

[JoWo]

Right, beavis, that's why I gave T_Kman0610 the website reference to make up his own mind.

Jo.

[Nick]

Thanks JoWo for the link to Victor Zammit's website. I should also mention for anyone interested that in addition to the download available on Mr. Zammit's site, the Astral Pulse has a copy of his book in our file library as well.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/file_library.asp?showmethefile=40&thatcat=14&thiscat=E%2DBooks


Very best,

[The AlphaOmega]

Does it really matter if you believe in an afterlife or not?  If you do thats fine, but it doesn't change anything if you don't.  There either is or their isn't, but EVERYONE will find out the truth when that time comes.  Untill then, live life!

[Euphoric Sunrise]

My current belief is that people go where they believe they will go once they die. I think this is what Bruce Moen says as well. I believe people's thoughts about the after life will strongly effect where they go once they pass. If a person believes in Heaven and believe they have lived a good life, they will find themselves in a heaven of sorts. They will be where they imagined they would be.
Likewise if a person imagines their after-life to be just like this world, they will go to whatever world they had in their mind.
The mind influences a spirit's destination greatly. If a person wishes to reincarnate they will, if they wish to stay in the after-life for a while, they can do that too.
I have nothing to base this on, it's just what i believe. Maybe it's what i want to believe, but i don't have any evidence for anything else so this will do fine for me [)]

[The AlphaOmega]

You go to the afterlife.  I can't say anything more then that, because I don't know.  I've never seen the after life or anything, but I know it exists because it's simply impossible for me to fathim what it would be like to not think.  My mind cannot wrap around the concept that once you die there is nothing, because I can't understand what it could possibly be like to not exist in some form.  Even floating in nothingness, as long as you are concious of even that, then it is something.  It's these NDE of many that help us validate the after life is in fact a true, living thing.  We know that NDE are true and not dreams because in many instances the heart is stopped and the brain activity is not active (clinically dead).  There is even a near death account of a man who was hit by a car and pronounced dead.  He remained dead in the morgue for 3 days and it was not discovered that he was alive again untill the autopsy.  Similarly, they have validated things that their friends and relatives had been doing while they were dead (because they saw them ) with complete accuracy.  It's these things that separate a NDE from an OBE.

[T_Kman0610]

evrybody wonders and has oppinions and think they have answers but when saying they have answers is like saying they died and came back and said this is where you go. well in that case, i dont believe it because they could of just did an OBE or dreamed they died and came back or something. who said that when you die you go through 7 stages of the astral planes? who said that it depends on how you were in the physical is where you go in the astral. i believe noone has an answer of these sort of things but only oppinions. so my question to you all is where will we go when we die? im not being religeous now and i dont mean to offend anyone but heaven is a term of paradise its not a place you go to when you die but a feeling when you die and go wherever the hell you. im a christian and i believe in god and jesus and stuff but im not sure if a i have the courage to believe that heaven and hell exactly exist. they are only feelngs you have when you are out of body. so any answers to this or oppinions? does anyone have any info? my grandma has died and came back but in leteral terms she said she seen angels, i believ her and i dont believe her, it is just that believing is differant than actually seeing. if we were to actually see the place we go after death, than this topic would wouldnt of existed only it would be called. :THE PLACE AFTER DEATH:

[ChineseRoom]

Does it really matter if you believe in an afterlife or not?  If you do thats fine, but it doesn't change anything if you don't.  There either is or their isn't, but EVERYONE will find out the truth when that time comes.  Untill then, live life!

Not necessarily. See, if the atheists are right, and this life is all there is, then when we die, our consciousness is annihilated. When that happens, we can't KNOW anything, because we dont exist anymore. Therefore, when we die, there is a chance that we will not know, even then, because there may not be anyone there to do the knowing! See what I mean?