Alchemical Secrets of The Lord of the Rings

[kakkarot]

ok, if my understanding of what that web site is saying is correct, they are saying that the lord of the rings books are "true history", or are based upon "true history"? O.o

~kakkarot

[Arthelion]

That's a beautiful article indeed. I'm a LOTR fan, too, but I'd never think that there might be something deeper in this story than a pure fight between good and evil. The parallel of Numenor and Atlantis is also very impressing. And as I'm thinking about Gandalf... He was sent to Middle-Earth to help the people, he had to die before unleashing his full powers, doesn't it sound like Jesus to you?
And the ending of this cycle of ages also corresponds whit the Zeta's and Reptilian's theories on this forum. So let's look forward to the new Golden Age!

[Logic]

Tolkien also smoked alot of hash and opiates when writing his books, which probably helped them out alot too.

[Ekron]

The only thing I suspect of Tolkien is he may have had some knowledge of Enochian Magic. This is speculation on my part.

[kakkarot]

quote:Originally posted by Arthelion

And as I'm thinking about Gandalf... He was sent to Middle-Earth to help the people, he had to die before unleashing his full powers, doesn't it sound like Jesus to you?

actually, jesus didn't become more powerful after he was resurrected: he did the same things after as he did before. plus, jesus said that it wasn't by his power that he did anything, but the power of the Father which worked through him.

so, nope doesn't remind me of jesus at all ^_^ .

~kakkarot

[Parmenion]

Hi Kakarrot,

Good to type at you again, how are you? I realise this isn't the place but I hope all went well with what you were planning to do [].

quote:ok, if my understanding of what that web site is saying is correct, they are saying that the lord of the rings books are "true history", or are based upon "true history"? O.o

Jay Weidner in this article tells us that "To Tolkien, Lord of the Rings was a mythical reimagining of the history of Europe 6,000 ­7,000 years ago."

I think the key word there is 'reimagining'. I do not know how much truth Tolkien believed was held in LOTR but I found the parallels between his world and ours very interesting. Also well portraid IMO was the path that would have led Tolkien to the discovery of Alchemy in the first place.


Hi Arthelion,

quote:And the ending of this cycle of ages also corresponds whit the Zeta's and Reptilian's theories on this forum

That is true. I believe the channelled info on cycles is only recent too. I have to say in all honesty that I was unaware of the 'coincidence' untill after I submitted this post. I had the link to that article in an unopened e-mail for weeks before I looked at it []

With best regards,

Dave

[Euphoric Sunrise]

quote:Originally posted by Arthelion

And the ending of this cycle of ages also corresponds whit the Zeta's and Reptilian's theories on this forum. So let's look forward to the new Golden Age!

This is exactly what i thought when i was watching the movie! I'm not sure that Tolkien would have had any knowledge of that when he was writing his books, but yeah he certainly may have.

I haven't read the whole article yet, but what i have read so far sounds very familiar. The whole concept of the earth rising to higher dimensions at the end of 2012 etc is soemthing i have a lot of interest in.
I haven't seen many comparisons with the movie in this article so far, but i'm only on page 2. I'm sure more will come.

Very interesting article anyway. It's at least made me more interested in astrology []

[James S]

Sorry, but I really can't get behind any of these theories about Tolkien.

He wasn't into anything mystical or any dark secrets.

Remember the most important fact about Tolkien - he was a professor of linguistics at Oxford! Lord of the Rings came about as a result of a language he created.

Tolkien himself had stated that Lord of the Rings was not written to be any kind of parallel to world events, or mystical practices.

Lord of the Rings was written as a story set in the world which he envisioned as part of creating the languages and cultures of the Elves and Dwarves. What started out as an exercise in linguistics  - the creation of the elvish language - ended up turning into one of last centuries greatest literary masterpieces.

I'm sorry, but anyone who feels the need to interpret any more that what Tolkien originally intended, should STOP reading articles posted on the web that make up half baked theories about him, and START reading what the man himself had to say.

It might sound like I'm coming off a bit annoyed here about this. Well, I am! I'm annoyed with the kind of fertilizer material put out by people like Jay Weidner and Sharron Rose who ignore documented facts so they can find what they need to support laughable theories of theirs. Documented facts such as Tolkien himself stating VERY PLAINLY what led him to write Lord of the Ring, and dismissing enough of these hair-brained notions when he was alive.

Yes it is just a long fairy tale about good and evil, but set in a very highly detailed world created by an Oxford Professor of Anglo-Saxon Linguistics.

OK, my soap box is now free for anyone else who want's to use it.

James.

[Parmenion]

Oops-a-daisy!

You seem to have prior knowledge of the writer of this article, I do not. You also appear to know more of Tolkien than I do.

quote:I'm sorry, but anyone who feels the need to interpret any more that what Tolkien originally intended, should STOP reading articles posted on the web that make up half baked theories about him, and START reading what the man himself had to say.

Actually, anyone wanting to interpret more than Tolkien originally intended SHOULD read half baked theories. That is not what I was trying to do though. You may well be right about Tolkien James, and I do not know enough about it to argue with you if I wanted to. I stated that it is a very interesting article, and people are finding it to be just that...very interesting.

quote:It might sound like I'm coming off a bit annoyed here about this. Well, I am!

Well, we all have our pet peeves []

With best regards,

Dave

[James S]

Sorry Parmenion, I didn't mean to put down your opening post at all. Yes it is a pet peeve of mine. [:I]

I adore Tolkien's work, and consider him a genius in his own right. No one has ever gone to the extent he did to create a land so rich in cultures and history. I suppose I get a little antsy when people try to read too much into things, instead of just enjoying what has been offered.

But then, I suppose it's up to the reader as to what they want to get out of it. Some people like the half baked theories []

James.

[Arthelion]

It's true that Tolkien states that his work isn't a parallel to any event in history, but let's presume he was a channeler. Would he say: "I know the history and the future of the Earth and you will pass into higher density of being in the beginning of the next millenium"? What would the world say to that in 1950s? I think it would be a good idea to camouflage it into a great story and wait until the people start to realize it. And the time would be now...

I don't say I believe it myself, but...
[]

[Gandalf]

Sorry guys, but I agree with James on this one, and I DO know plenty about Tolkien and the background.

I can say that the site refered to is complete sh*t! and if you want to beleive that then you are more gullable than I could possibly imagine.

Tolkien was a professor of Anglo-saxon (or old english: the Germanic ancestors of the modern english) at Oxford university. He wanted to write this fantasy history in order to have a playground for all his invented languages, as he was a specialist in linguistics, the history of Middle-earth arose out of this.

Most of it is actually contained in his myth cycle of Middle-earth, called 'the Silmarillion'. This was used as the background history when he eventially decided to write some stories based in this world (The Hobbit, and 'The Lord of the Rings').

Tolkien stated quite clearly that his world was 'an imaginary history of our own world', that is a fantasy version of our own early history. So yes, it IS set in the past world of earth, but a fantasy past.

He also made it clear on no uncertain terms that it was a story, plain and simple, with no allegory or metaphors.
However, he sees nothing wrong with 'applicability', that is fine, but allegory oversteps the mark as far as he is concerned.

The reason you all find parralels is because Tolien was a devout Catholic and used a certain amount of Catholic ideas when he was formulating his world.
For this reason in the Silmarilion, you get the fall of morgoth, the first dark Lord, who was originally the greatest of Eru's (god) servants but who fell from grace; he was called Melkor but after his fall he was renamed Morgoth (great enemy). Sound familiar anyone?
The Sauron of Lord of the rings was but a servant to Morgoth in the early days.

Tolkien also based much of his story on anglo-saxon myth as well as other real myth-cycles.
Numenor, where the men of the kingdom of Gondor originated from is based on the Atlantis myth (doh!).

The Rohirrin, or kingdom of Rohan are specifically based on the anglo-saxon culture, the movies were faithful to this so that is why you should spot the germanic/nordic style of their language, names, dress and (esp) architecture.
In fact, in the extended edition of the Two towers, Eowyn's lament at Theodred's funeral, she is actually singing in real olde english!

The Maiir spirits who come to earth to assist in the fall of Sauron and who take the form of old men (the 'Istari' which translates as 'order'), the word 'istari' is also known as 'Wizard'. These are the guys of whom Saruman, Gandalf and others not in the movies belong to.

While Tolkien specifically denied that Gandalf is any kind of christ allegory, it has to be said that he certainly has a 'biblical' thing about him, especially after his return, more like an OT prophet perhaps.

However, there is also Norse influence in Gandalf's formulation, as the Norse god Odin was sometimes said to take the form of 'an old man' and to wander among men. Tolkien, given his knowledge of germanic/nordic culture, was aware of this.

Other germanic/pagan influences include the rings of course, cf Wagner.

Tolkien wanted to emulate that great anglo-saxon poem 'Beawulf' which is a pagan anglo-saxon story but which was eventially recorded by christian monks, and in doing so it was infused with 'christian concerns'.

Tolkien liked the way this had been done, and he also greatly admired these 'pagan pre-christian heroes' who were good at heart and led good, honourable lives, and were loved by god, even if they were not christian, as it was hardly their fault that christianity had not arrived yet! Some Christian fundamentalists should take note of this obvious fact, before condemning non-christians to hell, cf one level of Dante's inferno, reserved for all those who were around before christ...ridiculous!

tolkien had a similar idea to do the same with his book, although this was secondary, the main point was ALWAYS to tell a good story and to get a shot of using his languages.

Basically, as Tolkien himself said, 'I am writing a primarily pagan story, set in a pagan world, with pagan characters, but It is INFUSED WITH CHRISTIAN CONCERNS'
For this reason you get Christian themes like, redemtion, res-erection and so on, but the Christian themes are, I repeat NOT his main reason for writing, they just came naturally.

All this can be found in the forward (written by the man himself) to the book Lord of the Rings, so there is no excuse for getting your facts from crap websites. Other info can be gotton from his Letters, also published.

Regards
Douglas

[James S]

To add to the list of credible references if anyone wants to know more about Tolkien himself - get hold of the extended DVD set of the Fellowship of the Rings. One of the special feature DVDs has a documentary on Tolkien himself, and how Middle Earth and LOtR all came about. It's quite detailed.

What Gandalf has written here is 100% verifiable. There really are no hidden mysteries here at all. Neither of us want to come off sounding defensive, like we worship the man or anything, but it does bug me when  the creative works of a writer is used to validate someones idiotic theories. I've seen the same kind of thing happen with Stephen King (must be a satanist), David Eddings (has been channeling alien gods), Anne Rice (knows real vampires). There's always someone out there who can't differentiate between fact and fiction, and has way too much free time on their hands.

Regards,
James.

[Parmenion]

This is an extremely interesting article.

(Being a Tolkien fan I may be biased, but I don't think so)

The first paragraphs of the introduction...


Introduction


It seems a simple story.

At first glance it appears to be nothing more than a very long fairy tale about good and evil. Peopled with Elves, Dwarves, Wizards, Monsters and more, J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings was not considered a great work of literature when it first appeared in 1954. Now it is hailed as the book of the 20th century. What is it about this book that caused it to be such a sensation? Why does it create such a warmth and resonance in the hearts of its readers? Our answer to these and other questions to be discussed in the course of this article is that Tolkien was aware of the hidden esoteric history of humanity and the powerful influence of the Great Work of Alchemy on European culture.

Using Tolkien's splendid tale as a tool, this article will reveal that like the great masters of old, Tolkien is initiating us into a new level of awareness of our past, ourselves and the planet we inhabit. It will also reveal that Tolkien somehow knew the deepest secrets of Alchemy and embedded this mysterious knowledge into the heart of his work. This is the real reason why The Lord of the Rings has such a great and universal appeal, for it is our true history and secret heritage that is being revealed to us through its pages. Tolkien has mined a deep vein of mythic resonance that rings true to all who delve deeply into this extraordinary work of Art


Here is the link;
http://www.sacredmysteries.com/JayTolkien1.htm

With best regards,

Dave