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Do not invoke lucifer

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0

Religion - rules

spirituality - universal
We are slaves unto nobody. We are not defined by the countries we live in, but how we live our life on this world. We are Human.

aryanknight666

Not really, James S. Take - buddhism, for example or, wicca, or, hinduism, or taoism, or my religion, as would have it; spiritual satanism (can also be described as traditional satanism).
I'd also have to say religion entires far more then rules.

0

I have to disagree.

The eastern religions you mentioned including wicca, are more a spiritual path, though refered to as a religion.

In the academic study of religion as a phenomenon in history the term 'religion' can be considered in its different aspects: as an inner experience as theology or intellectual formulation of doctrine. An a basis or source of ethics and as an element in culture.  
Different scholars have given different views and opinions of its nature and meaning. According to Aldous Huxley religion is, among other things, a system of education, by means of which human beings may train themselves. First to make desirable changes in their own personalities and in society. and second. to heighten consciousness and so establish more adequate relations between themselves and the universe of which they are parts Modern Indian philosophers like or Radhakrishnan, have expounded the theme that religion is not a set of doctrines but that it is experience and religious experience is based on the realization of the 'presence of the divine in man'. H. G. Wells says 'religion is the central part of our education that determines our moral conduct' The German philosopher. Kant. stated that 'religion is the recognition of our moral principles as laws that must not be transgressed.'

The Buddha's message as a religious way of life: "Keeping away from ail evil deeds, cultivation or life by doing good deeds and punfication of mind from mental impurities."

For our purposes, religion may be defined in a very broad sense as a body of moral and philosophical teachings and the acceptance with confidence of such teachings. In this sense, Buddhism is a religion.  

Buddhism however does not neatly fit into the general categories outlined earlier because it does not share common features with other existing religions in many ways.


This is the same for many similar chosen paths, but one thing is for certain, if comparing western religions and eastern religions as well as just the spiritual placement of the self, you put a great division line between what is religion, and what is spiritual guidance.

In my opinion, religion, as many know it, is a set adherance for mankind to be ruled under given by man in the place of god.
Even if claimed god had given these rules, man still puts them forth onto humankind in order to abide by.
Therefore, those in religion, are ruled by laws and rules placed on man, by man.

Spirituality has no curtain to divided us between right and wrong, we must chose for ourselves what is and what isnt.
Satanism is more an occult, though many, including yourself ayranknight, might disagree.
One reason I think that satanism is an occult is because it is a formulated doctrine for many, but it has yet to attain any cultured artifice in which allows society to grasp its theoligical ramifications easily enough to accept it as a religion.
Plus the social view see's satanism as more an opposition to what religion truly is, when in reality, it only opposes (In aspect of general social knowledge)what certain religions entail.


religion - rules

spirituality - universal

We are slaves unto nobody. We are not defined by the countries we live in, but how we live our life on this world. We are Human.

Tisha

All the same . . . I think the advice not to invoke Lucifer should stand.  Not because he/it is "evil," but because most folk surfing these boards shouldn't be invoking ANYONE or ANYTHING. Invoking a spirit, while not actually knowing what to do should it actually show up, is a recipe for disaster.  Plus, they don't always go away when you ask them to.

Any newcomer to Magick should spend his/her newfound knowledge (of the ways of Energy) on personal/spiritual development.  Should a spirit show up on your behalf, deal with the matter as appropriate, but don't go looking for trouble!
Tisha

aryanknight666

quote:
Spirituality has no curtain to divided us between right and wrong, we must chose for ourselves what is and what isnt.
Satanism is more an occult, though many, including yourself ayranknight, might disagree.
One reason I think that satanism is an occult is because it is a formulated doctrine for many, but it has yet to attain any cultured artifice in which allows society to grasp its theoligical ramifications easily enough to accept it as a religion.
Plus the social view see's satanism as more an opposition to what religion truly is, when in reality, it only opposes (In aspect of general social knowledge)what certain religions entail.



No, I agree with you more or less that satanism is the occult, or at least it involves the occult. Mysticism, spirituality, wicca, are the occult, and hinduism and buddhism involve aspects of the occult as well.
What you say about satanism as more an opposition to what religion truly is - some groups such as the order of the nine angels describe satanism as "anti-religion". They call themselves "occult satanists" but like modern/laVeyan satanists who are athiests, they treat satan as a representation of mankind or the dark/carnal side of humans, or the dark lands of the mind. They would, then be grouped as modern satanists, where as theistic satanists would be groups or covens that treat satan as a real being. Alot of groups, both modern and theistic, talk of "true satanism" and relate true satanism to how they define it. Of course, one groups perception of true satanism might be different to another. Thus, when speakng of satanism, it is important to consider modern satanism and theistic satanism. Then, identifying which one the group you are dealing with belongs too, the specifics of that group. You cannot pick a theistic or modern satanist group, describe its specifics and apply it to satanism as a whole.
I belong to the theistic group the "joy of satan". It's url is www.joyofsatan.com, it is the most extensive and informative theistic satanist web adress on the net, probably out of both theistic and modern satanist web adresses. Now, if you want to visit that adress, type "joy of satan" into a search engine because currently, the domain is down but search engine links will still take you to the site, as well as typing in the original domain however it is long and I do not know it off by heart.  
At the JOS, we beleive satan respects individuality, free choice and three-thought. So, we do not tell people what is right or wrong, we do not dictate to people rules and ethics. This is common with all satanic groups, theistic or modern.

quote:
The Buddha's message as a religious way of life: "Keeping away from ail evil deeds, cultivation or life by doing good deeds and punfication of mind from mental impurities."

For our purposes, religion may be defined in a very broad sense as a body of moral and philosophical teachings and the acceptance with confidence of such teachings. In this sense, Buddhism is a religion.

Buddhism however does not neatly fit into the general categories outlined earlier because it does not share common features with other existing religions in many ways.



Buddhists and Buddha Shakyamuni himself describe(d) buddhism as not a religion or philosophy; rather an education.
That is a good interpretation of Buddha's message, hits closer to home then anything I have read about him and his message on these forums. Only, evil would have been a foreign word to his vocabulary and concept to his mind. It is important to consider things like these when reading translated and/or western texts on buddha and buddhism, with words such as "heaven" and "hell".

19

Word of advice to spell casters and magicians,

Lucifer and his kind wants to be invoked because they love to lead humans astray.

They will fulfill your request but at a price that is definately not worth it, Is it worth being distanted from the sweet bliss and peace of your soul (spirit, ruh etc).

Invoking lucifer is asking and depending on something other than God.

God is sufficiant for you.

Invoking lucifer is an act of disbelief, the more you invoke him the more you lower yourself in degrees.

So whether your casting a spell or doing anything magical do it for the good of others and yourself, do it in the name of God so you do not become one of the disgraced.

And do not make yourself accustomed to witchcraft and hurting people with spells.

If injustice has been done to you, be patient and the doer of the injustice will surely taste what his hands has put forth, a universal law which God has set in place to punish wrong doers both in this life and the next.

I hope this made sense to you, I thought it was something very importnat to talk about in these days of evil and religious ignorance.

- 19   God's personal number, he is the first and the last.

Veral42

Hmm... God?

Sorry, I don't believe that there's a God.

CaCoDeMoN

Quote
Hmm... God?

Sorry, I don't believe that there's a God.
Who cares?
MEAT=MURDER.

Rydel

The Joy of Satan is the WORST website on modern satanism in existance. It's utter stupidity. A friend of mine wrote this site on satanism if you're actually interested.

Satanism is really just the philosophy of self. It has NOTHING. I repeat. NOTHING to do with the christian entity known as satan/lucifer/whatever.

no_leaf_clover

QuoteIt has NOTHING. I repeat. NOTHING to do with the christian entity known as satan/lucifer/whatever.

Where'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

Rob

The egypian deity Set, wasn't it? God of the night?
(!!!Formerly known as Inguma!!!)
You are the Alpha and the Omega. You are vaster than the universe and more powerful than a flaring supernova. You are truly incredible!!

AstralSailor

Quote from: no_leaf_clover
QuoteIt has NOTHING. I repeat. NOTHING to do with the christian entity known as satan/lucifer/whatever.

Where'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.

I believe i read about this..
Satan comes from shiatan.. Which is Arabic for "disbeliever" or "the once who go astray" or well basically that type of person...
I have read that the chatolic church used it on the Illuminati brotherhood
and that the Illuminati in the beginning where a brotherhood of scientist who did not like the way the church cut off them and they planned to change that but the catholic church killed many of them so they after they had been split up they reformed and all kinds of rituals and things where broth upon Illuminati and now they say that they only seek revenge on the church..

I know this is really unfair to tell... I have only read it I'm not saying this is how i actually is.. But the book was said to be based upon certain fact..
Still i don't believe this..
The word Satan i believe comes from shitan tough..
And it says that the word Lucifer means "The Light bringer"
I think people think of God and Satan as Good and Evil
What about having "Goo-vil" for a change...

A friend of mine has this theory that their is only one big Person which has serious schizophrenic problems.. And that is all of us :) I think that's a nice way to put it :)

Rydel

QuoteWhere'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.

This is how a friend of mine (the one who wrote the page I gave a link for above) answered that question.

QuoteThe term "Satanism" was actually coined by the Roman Catholic Church several centuries ago. Anton LaVey, in spreading the ideas of satanism in the 1960's, embraced the name "Satanism" for its shock value, essentially. Basically, this is all said and done. If we were to try to change it now, everyone would just say "Shut up! You're Satanists! Stop trying to act like you aren't!" If we don't, then a dozen people like you show up per year and ask us why we're called Satanists. We just can't win.

Hope that answers the question.

AstralSailor

Quote from: Rydel
QuoteWhere'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.

This is how a friend of mine (the one who wrote the page I gave a link for above) answered that question.

QuoteThe term "Satanism" was actually coined by the Roman Catholic Church several centuries ago. Anton LaVey, in spreading the ideas of satanism in the 1960's, embraced the name "Satanism" for its shock value, essentially. Basically, this is all said and done. If we were to try to change it now, everyone would just say "Shut up! You're Satanists! Stop trying to act like you aren't!" If we don't, then a dozen people like you show up per year and ask us why we're called Satanists. We just can't win.

Hope that answers the question.

Yeah i agree :)

star

Ive looked through the site supposedly 'Satan' 'Lucifer' he can be summoned. Even some of those Egyptian gods, why not just ask them directly then?
"How unfortunate for mankind that the Lord is reported by Holy Writ as having said 'Vengeance is mine!' "
Sir Julian Huxley

Hammish

Ah but who is to say that god is not the devil in disguise? No I don't believe it either but I'm an atheist. Personally I don't believe in such a thing as good and evil since they are human creations. And respect those who don't share the same beliefs.

kenshin

Quote from: HammishAh but who is to say that god is not the devil in disguise? No I don't believe it either but I'm an atheist. Personally I don't believe in such a thing as good and evil since they are human creations. And respect those who don't share the same beliefs.

true i mean whats that saying - "the devils greatest trick is convincing man he doesn't exist" or something like that, how do you know the god of the bibles greatest trick is convincing man that he is the good one when he is the bad one, i mean the one in the bible despite supposedly being a loving god often told people to rape/kill others

Sophi

I think we need to accept that some people have their opinions, and others have theirs.

Only one is right indeed, but unless you have a hell of alot of faith you don't know for sure. You can say bonk all, but you don't know for sure.

But soon enough you will, so don't worry. (:
Soph.

labouts

About the "Joy of Satan" site, anyone how is involved with it should see this if they haven't:   //www.satans-powers.tk

If you read it's stuff with an open mind you will probably change your opinions on it. the Threat letter responses are actually quite hilarious :).
^ I probably would have thought that's insane a year ago.

bloodsong

Quotewho is to say that God is not the devil in disguise

Personally, I like Crowley's idea:

QuoteThe devil is God as misunderstood by the wicked

benrachor

I have studied demonology for a number years among other things and just for your information there are four great princes of the underworld not just one.

Satan-"Adversary"

Lucifer-"Light giver"

Belial-"All false and hollow"

Leviathan-"That which gathers itself together in folds"

There is not a "Devil", this is a general description.

thesickmoon

Quote from: 19Word of advice to spell casters and magicians,

Lucifer and his kind wants to be invoked because they love to lead humans astray.

They will fulfill your request but at a price that is definately not worth it, Is it worth being distanted from the sweet bliss and peace of your soul (spirit, ruh etc).

Invoking lucifer is asking and depending on something other than God.

God is sufficiant for you.

Invoking lucifer is an act of disbelief, the more you invoke him the more you lower yourself in degrees.

So whether your casting a spell or doing anything magical do it for the good of others and yourself, do it in the name of God so you do not become one of the disgraced.

And do not make yourself accustomed to witchcraft and hurting people with spells.

If injustice has been done to you, be patient and the doer of the injustice will surely taste what his hands has put forth, a universal law which God has set in place to punish wrong doers both in this life and the next.

I hope this made sense to you, I thought it was something very importnat to talk about in these days of evil and religious ignorance.

<font color="blue">- 19   God's personal number, he is the first and the last. </font id="blue">

Look, I don't have any peace of mind in the first frakking place. So, like, were I to invoke Lucifer to get me a taco, what would the price be? Would there be a delivery fee?

Also, I've seen Peter Cook as The Devil, so I know how he operates. In the film (Bedazzled, 1967-- NOT that crummy remake by Harold Ramis), Peter Cook plays George Spiggot-- who's also the Devil-- and Dudley Moore plays Stanley Moon, who's in love with Margaret Spencer (played by the lovely Eleanor Bron, whose name was used by The Beatles-- NOT because they wrote Eleanor Rigby ABOUT her, but because they liked her so much. She was in HELP! with them and my goodness she was gorgeous and sexy and mmmmmmmmm), see, and so he wants to get her as his girlfriend, but he's a short order cook, so he thinks he doesn't have a chance with her. So, he prays and asks for a sign, or something, and then the Devil (Spiggot, played by Cook) shows up. Moon's not convinced he's the Devil, so he wants proof. He says he wants a Frobisher and Gleason raspberry ice lolly, so they hop on one of those big red British bus things, and then they go get one. The Devil even makes Moon pay for it because he's only got a million pound note. So, my point is: If I invoke Lucifer to get me a taco, should I expect to pay for it myself?
"Chair-swiveling is an old and honorable avocation for any accomplished and self-respecting villainous personage."
--Ronald D. Moore, March 12, 2005

Hamoi

Quote from: Nagual<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So, basicaly god gave us the mean to cast spells and, at the same time, he forbid us to use it...?  What's the point?  Weird logic...

Well god tend's to be like that , It is a sin to kill ourselve's , but he gave us the ability :P
"Oh Lord , Bless this thy holy handgrenade , And withit blow thou enemie's to tiny peices!"

GANAMOHA

Quote from: Nagual<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So, basically god gave us the mean to cast spells and, at the same time, he forbid us to use it...?  What's the point?  Weird logic...
he also gave us the power to kill but he doesn't want us to do that either not saying you don't have a point just saying that we can do things we shouldn't
I stand at the threshold of what could be a new world

alucard

Ecclesiastes 3:1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven , and there is a time and a place for everything but every action does not serve God.  God had his people slay the wicked, but never in representation of him has anyone been raped.  He does not promote consensual sex out of wedlock,much less rape.
 God does not sin, he is perfect;his followers sin.  God must condone magic, for what are prayers?  He does not, however, permit the use of magic for selfish means, IE, love spells and the summoning of demons.  In the bible it says that these occult powers come from Satan.