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element theory

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Forestianfire

we all know that there are four elements: fire water earth and air. but personally i think there is seven, they are: forest (or wood), earth, thunder water, fire, dark and light.
now for those people that might be thinking "what no air! air has to be an element!"  I'm sorry i disagree, since almost every other element affects the winds and air qualities: fires can create vaccums which can make over 100mph winds and create smog, mountians (earth) create wind by their slope, water also create winds (hurrcanes are created over warm oceans) lightning, moves air at  an enormous speed as it strikes (which is how we get the sound of thunder) and light and dark, i'll explain later.
Moast people think wood is the same as earth you couldnt be more wrong! trees and animals are liveing breathing thing wheras mountians are hard cold things. trees reminds you of life wheras mountians reminds you of power. if you still dont agree with me, pick up a leaf, then pick up a rock and make your own conclusion.
thunder (or a more scientific term lightning) it an element on its own that was usualy grouped with air (which isnt an element). just think of it as this,thunder is plasma it is an energy of its own.
dark and light arent a "natural element" to say, they represent the positive (light) and negative (dark). dark isnt nessacarily evil, it represents the not so good charatheristics of us. it also is a protection element since many  a time the human race has had to hide in the shadows for something. Light isnt nessacarily good either, even though it represents the better qualities. as the opposite of dark it is a revealing element that shows the way.
I also think that there are seven elements since seven is a very specail number that is repeated in the bible many times. well, i'm not the best at endings so i'll just say this, I'm a 14 year dude so some of theese reasons may seep kindof dumb but i also spent  about three of four years testing this theory too.
all theese little people.....

VesAn

The ancient greeks believed that there are 5 elements, earth, fire, water, air, and "quintessense", which is the perfect essense existing only outside of the earth, and is what the stars and other celestial objects are made of.

 Ahh, and they also believed that everything on earth are all made of a combination of earth, fire, water and air.  For example, thunder might be interpreted as a combination of fire and air, and wood being a combination of water and earth.

 Just some food for thought, I suppose.

Forestianfire

hmmm.... you have a strikeing point but, i'm sorry if this is kindof narrow minded, if wood was a combonation of earth and water, why would it be completely incinerated if you expose it to fire? If i am right water is over fire.  also in the makeup of things there would be many inconsintencies, as in since thunder always tries to go the quickest path tho the ground, wouldnt it be part earth also?
all theese little people.....

gentlesavage

hey i am back to the forums, and i was thinking that maybe metal could be one, like iron ore or something like that.
Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean its not there.

Empathic

Over A few years i have come to learn there are 8 true elements....mostly one to counter-act its counter-part.  They are Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Spirit, Void, Light, Dark
The Earth element grows plants and can cause earthquakes and all things that happen on the ground...mostly.
The Air element causes wind and storm clouds and tornadoes, and hurricanes (some have to be mixed with water)
 The fire element can cause fire and lightning mostly.
 The water element causes waves, rain, hurricanes, and storm clouds
 The spirit element is mostly life and humanity (anyone with Spirit or Void could automatically access the other elements because of the spiritualism you need to have to have either Spirit or Void.
 The Void element is more like nothingness to balance life.  It can be considered death but it truly isnt.
 The Light element is a lesser strength of Spirit but basically is strength and powerful, could be considered Good.
 The Dark element is a lesser strength of Void but basically is like creativity and could be considered Evil.
 And those are the elements i have learned of.

karnautrahl

Weren't the elements used as a metaphorical framework which were used to explain many things, including in oriental energy practices how to explain different feelings of types of chi etc? Rather than more literal sounding translations?
May your [insert choice of deity/higher power etc here] guide you and not deceive you!

clandestino

Quote from: karnautrahlWeren't the elements used as a metaphorical framework which were used to explain many things, including in oriental energy practices how to explain different feelings of types of chi etc? Rather than more literal sounding translations?

Correct, the elements have nothing to do with their physical counterparts. The fire element is simply energy, & has nothing to do with fire as we know it. When reading any texts that discuss the elements, keep in mind that the names are metaphorical. The water element shares certain qualities with the water that we drink to stay alive, hence it was named water.....but it is a different thing altogether.

Similarly, Bardon's electrical & magnetic fluids have nothing to do with physical electrical / magnetic fields.
I'll Name You The Flame That Cries

karnautrahl

Thank you for clearing that up Clandestino :-). I appreciate that. It's always nice to have one's assumptions checked
May your [insert choice of deity/higher power etc here] guide you and not deceive you!

Leventis

QuoteThe ancient Greeks believed that there are 5 elements, earth, fire, water, air, and "quintessense", which is the perfect essense existing only outside of the earth, and is what the stars and other celestial objects are made of.

I don't think you can talk about the ancient Greeks in genera. There use to be some philosophers with different ideas. One believed that all is water another all was fire.  There was the idea of void from another philosophy.  Another one believed in the four elements water/fire earth/air. Supposedly each one can bring the other or cancel each other out.
Leventis
The only good is knowledge and the only evil ignorance.
-Socrates

BirdManKalki

On The Elements

First we shall discuss the four elements, the fifth element has already been explained.  

It is said the elements fire and water are glued or held together by the element of air. When the elements of fire and water are held together by air they meld together as one and become the element of earth.

However the question remains on what the coded terms fire, water, air and earth mean. Now to find out we must examine are own surroundings. If it is said that the elements constitute the makings of the universe if so then the answer is all around us. We shall begin by first examining the element of fire.

On Fire And Water

In our search for the true meaning of the term fire we shall begin by examining and stating the obvious physical properties of fire; we are now talking of the fire that can be struck with a match. In order to create fire three sources are required. We require Heat, Air and fuel this is what is known as the fire triangle. If any of these sources are removed the fire triangle collapses and we have no fire.

If we observe Fire we notice a few things, it's hot and radiates heat, bright, dry and burns the skin. Now if we observe Water we notice its cool, wet and humid and smooth on the skin. Therefore it can be noted (in a rough sense) that water is an opposite of fire, this is why water can be used to extinguish fire, water-cools down heat thus removing heat from the fire triangle.

With the above kept in mind we can come to an understanding that the elements of fire and water are named so to confuse and provide a clue, this clue being that the elements are equal opposite forces. It must also be kept in mind that the elements constitute the making of the universe and are included in the making of all.          

On Air the mediator

It is said that the element of Air is not really an element but rather a mediator between fire and water; it absorbs from fire the property of heat and from water the property of humidity. By absorbing these properties the element of Air glues together the opposing forces of Fire and Water. The properties of heat and humidity create two polarities to the element of air, these polarities being life giving and life taking. Now again we must remember that the elements are included in the making of all in the universe, with this in mind we are again offered a vital clue.

On Earth

Earth is said to be the result of all the elements melded together, it is also said that the fluid in the earthy element is electromagnetic, again this is but a vital clue. With this in mind we can come to an understanding that the elements fire, water and air melded together create earth, again with the understanding that all is made from the elements what we are looking for is something that by itself constitutes the making of the universe.

With all these clues we can be guided to an understanding. However first we shall look at the present ages outtake on the origins and makings of the universe and compare them to our understanding of the elements.




Scientific Thought on the Origins of the Universe

In the beginning

Scientists have come to an agreement that the universes came into existence eight to twenty million years ago. At the Big Bang the universe was concentrated into a single point extremely hot and dense. This is the beginning of space and time. In the first billionth of a second the universe expanded from the size of an atomic nucleus to the size of a football.

A millionth of a second later the universe formed into a violent expanding fireball this was about ten billon miles in radius and was filled with what we currently call protons neutrons, electrons and neutrinos. One minute later the universe, about a million billion miles across became a huge thermonuclear reactor, building the nuclei of helium atoms from the hydrogen nuclei that was made in the Big Bang.  

At the moment it is to hot for complete atoms to be formed. However a few thousand years later the temperature sinks to about 4000*c the bright mixture of matter and radiation is cool and dispersed ready for atoms to form. The universe darkens then matter begins to clump together using the force of gravity. Then a few billion years past and galaxies are made as vast clouds of gas contract, this begins the formation of stars. The galaxies are now gathered in super-clusters that are 100 to 400 million light years apart in huge sheets and filaments with voids between them. The heat of the Big Bang is faint background radiation.

What we have above is the current dominating theory of creation in this age. Most of it is pretty much right and we could begin to explain the creation truths of different ages and the absolute similarities between this age and the ages before us, however this shall be saved until later.

The beginning explained in short

I shall now explain the above 'the big bang' in the most very simple terms.

1.   Tiny spot of light comes into existence (extremely hot and dense and the size of a atomic nucleus)
2.   The tiny spot of light becomes a big ball of fire (protons, neutrons, electrons and neutrinos)
3.   The big ball of fire looses it heat and cools down (atoms can now form)
4.   Air forms matter together (Gravity)

Does any of the above remind you of any creation texts?

The Atom or Atum (She/He That Completes)

The Atom is a particle that consists of protons and neutrons surrounded by orbiting electrons. Protons are a positive charge and themselves consist of smaller particles called quarks. A proton has two up quarks and one down quark. Electrons are a negative electrical charge, the opposite of protons they themselves have no quarks. Neutrons have two down quarks and one up quark; they have a neutral magnetic charge. It must be noted that an Atom is ninety nine percent empty; this meaning what we deem as solid is only one percent solid, which kind of makes matter an illusion, just like clouds.


Electricity and Matter

Electricity is a form of energy that is made up of two different charges. A positive charge called Protons and a negative charge called Electrons. Protons are made up of three smaller particles called quarks. A proton consists of two up quarks and a down quark. All matter is either positively dominant or negatively dominant according to the dominating P or E properties of the formed body. For the sceptics, what is thought other then electrical messages interpreted by the brain?


The Strong Force the Weak Force and the Electromagnetic Force

The Electromagnetic force determines how strongly the particle can exert its pressure electro-magnetically. It is also responsible for the force that is called the Gravitational force.

The Strong force is responsible for keeping quarks glued together inside of protons and neutrons. The weak force is responsible for radioactive decay of substances.    

The making of Matter, Opposites attract

Now if we re-evaluate the above we come to an understanding. Protons are the positive force. Electrons are the negative force. Protons and electrons as opposites are attracted to each other. However if we try and force two protons together they will repel each other. This can be compared to trying force two repelling poles together e.g. north repels south and visa versa.

With the above just discussed kept in mind we shall now make comparisons between the Atom and our understanding of the Elements.
 
Similarities Between the Atom and the Elements  

The Atom or Atum

A proton is a positive charge, an electron is a negative charge, and protons and electrons are both opposites. The protons are held together within the nucleus of the atom by the strong force. Atoms make up matter and matter is the making of the universe. If electrons, protons or neutrons didn't exist life itself would not be.  

The Elements

The element of Fire is the opposite element of water. The element of air holds the elements of water and fire together. The three elements when glued together make the element of earth that constitutes the making of the universe. If the elements fire, water, or air didn't exist life itself would not be.
As we can see the similarities between the elements and the atom are strikingly similar.  

If we were to link the elements with atom they would translate as follows

Fire = Protons
Water = Electrons
Air = Neutrons, Strong Magnetic force (life giving) and the weak force which is responsible for radioactive decay of substances (life taking)
Fire + Water + Air = Earth
Therefore Earth = Matter

It is said that Fire, Water and Air when melded together become one and create Earth. This would mean that earth = Matter.

It should be noted that everything exists in two states, manifest and unmanifest, Water is the symbolic physical manifestation of Nothing, all one need do is taste or look at water to clarify this.  

I know that on its own this probably won't be excepted however we shall now provide a translated quote from Genesis using the key of the elements just described. Note this key can be used in practically all creation Myths/Truths

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. 2Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the watery deep; and Gods active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

Translates

1God created the astral planes and Matter, Manifest/Unmanifest.
2 Matter was formless, and all that existed was darkness. The watery deep/abyss in this case referrers symbolically to the void. Gods active force referrers to God Consciousness moving to and fro across the void.    

3 And God proceeded to say: "Let light come to be." Then there came to be light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and god brought about a division between the light and the darkness. 5 And God began calling the light day and the darkness he called night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.

Translates

The Divine Universal Mind thought let light come to be, having thought this light would have come to be and the external consciousness would have taken form. Light in this case referrers to (image) the image being the Big Bang. We have already noted that in the theory of the Big Bang a Tiny spot of light came into existence (extremely hot and dense and the size of a atomic nucleus) Now, inside the core of the sun is the temperature is around fifteen million degrees centigrade and nuclear reactions release high energy Protons (Fire) these protons are extremely hot and dense. This signifies that fire first came into existence. The division between light and darkness is the division between external consciousness (Image) and internal consciousness (thought behind Image).

6 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters" 7 Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. And the God began to call the expanse heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.

Translated

This passage again represents the Big Bang In this case the expansion of the Big Bang. Not only this but the division between the waters is the division between the light of the Divine Universal Mind and the Thought of the Divine Universal Mind, it symbolises and explains to us quite clearly that The Divine Universal Mind can achieve the impossible, that is separate nothing.  
As well as this we can apply the term as above so below, this meaning we ourselves cause are own division from the Divine Universal Mind, each of us has created are own egos which themselves when used incorrectly cause an illusion of division from ourselves.  

Water symbolises electrons or rather negative thought waves of light. So what is really being said is that the Divine Universal Mind caused the external energy via its thought to expand in all directions. It is said that God began to call the expanse heaven. This is why space is referred to as the heavens.    

9 And God went on to say: "Let the waters under the heaven be brought together into one place and let the dry land appear" And it came to be so. 10 And God began calling the dry land earth, but the bringing together of the waters he called seas. Further God saw that it was good. And God went on to say: " Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, upon the earth." And it came to be so      

Translated

This symbolises the melding of fire and water or rather protons and electrons (Positive waves and negative thought waves of light. It is said that the waters when brought together created dry land and that god began to call the dry land earth 'said in both terms'. It is then explained that God went on to say let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation-bearing seed. The Grass shooting forth from the earth represents the creation of form from matter (thought Patterns) fruit trees yielding fruit to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, this symbolises that the form that is created is the form of which the seed or the light pattern of thought is written.

12And the earth began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then god saw that it was good  

You get the idea...

Wood is the same as earth!

Oh, look my water broke; can anyone guess what the Immaculate Conception is? More even, who breaks water!

Infinite Love and Praise to The Divine Mother! (Feminine Unmanifested Thought)
Honour your farther and mother!    
FatboySlim – Praise You!

This will be deleated

sorry i havent read all the posts
" I say nothing and look at YOU"

Hammish

I always thought that Thunder is not an element because it is part of wind and earth.
Wood is Earth.
Light and Dark, well they just aren't.

I think there should be a Lunar element though, since the moon dictates the movement of water (partially) it makes sense.

taoita

Forestianfire wrote:
they are: forest (or wood), earth, thunder water, fire, dark and light.

I was just thinking about this idea recently. My link was in regarding the elements as having qualities, movements and relationships with the climate.

The thunder-water and dark-light is really interesting, but air is a strong and subtle element too.

Hammish

Em, I'm not so sure about Forest (wood) if we were to move that way  something like Mineral - Life would make more sense. Mineral would cover rocks and soil and most things (basically earth) and life would cover wood, vegetation and all animal life. Maybe Electricity, that could cover Thunder and Light (to a certain degree). ah, ok.
I retract this statement. If there were four elements
Fire Water Earth Air would be them.
I see how it works from a big bang point of view.

OrionsDream

I've always thought myself as an Elemental Mage (hehe not a totally adv. one) - but my 'special' and 'favorite' (of course i will have to grow out of haveing a 'favorite) element has always been air.
However, i had a dream that i controlled water, but intwined within it i could still feel air. maybe that is what it was explaining.

But i can control wind/wind direction, etc. so it must be some sort of element.
Save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind on your feet come with me we are soldiers stand or die
Save your fears take your place save them for the judgement day fast and free follow me time to make the sacrifice we rise or fall

AstralSailor

Quote from: clandestino
Quote from: karnautrahlWeren't the elements used as a metaphorical framework which were used to explain many things, including in oriental energy practices how to explain different feelings of types of chi etc? Rather than more literal sounding translations?

Correct, the elements have nothing to do with their physical counterparts. The fire element is simply energy, & has nothing to do with fire as we know it. When reading any texts that discuss the elements, keep in mind that the names are metaphorical. The water element shares certain qualities with the water that we drink to stay alive, hence it was named water.....but it is a different thing altogether.

Similarly, Bardon's electrical & magnetic fluids have nothing to do with physical electrical / magnetic fields.

Thank you for a wonderful post ^_^
That was what i was waiting for someone to say :)
Also wanted to point to that all these elements are all the same but with some of the "elemental side" like fire dominate in "Fire".
Earth bardon explain is the most "balanced" 25% 25% 25% 25% (100% akash) element. While "air","water","fire" has other balances
And not to forget All is one ^_^ How strange or Quantum is may seem that's how i like to explain it
LL&L