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inform me on magic please

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the fool on the hill

does it bring anything negative at all from it's usage or understanding?

i've heard of people being molested or having paranoid things happening to them.

what are the basics or where is the power (if any) derived from?

to tell you the truth this seems foolish but i love to give all subjects an open minded door.

Vvid1012

#1
Quote from: the fool on the hill on February 14, 2007, 16:56:28

what are the basics or where is the power (if any) derived from?


I am no master on the subject, however, I would venture to guess..nature

The instances of paranoia are likely derived from a lack of understanding of the situation and/or themself

the fool on the hill

so how does one harness the powers of nature?

bloodsong

Quote from: the fool on the hill on February 14, 2007, 16:56:28
does it bring anything negative at all from it's usage or understanding?

i've heard of people being molested or having paranoid things happening to them.

what are the basics or where is the power (if any) derived from?

to tell you the truth this seems foolish but i love to give all subjects an open minded door.

I will take these in order to the best of my understanding.

From its usage, perhaps, but that depends upon the understanding of the magician.  I am writing this from the point of view of a Ceremonial Magician.  We believe that magick is a means to union with the One Reason of existence.  That has also been called God, Christ, Krishna, Buddha, and numerous other things.  So how can attempting this union bring negative into one's life?  From a misunderstanding of the magick one uses, or a misunderstanding of one's self in attempting a metamorphosis. 

You mention " people being molested or having paranoid things happening to them."  Your words are often the most correct thing in the world.  Most times, these things end up being no more than overactive imagination of dabblers.  Sometimes, things can happen that are difficult to impossible to explain.  These things can be remedied, and rather easily.  All things regarding this have been openly discussed, as all things magickal.  This particular subject was revealed in Dion Fortune's "Psychic Self Defense."  Many other books have been written on the subject, but this is the original, has stood the test of time, and I have never heard anyone reputable recommend anything other, and I don't recommend looking elsewhere myself.

I must ask for clarification on what you mean by "What are the basics?"  Do you mean how to get started, or is this a continuation of the next part on asking where the "power" emanates from?

I will continue under the assumption of the second circumstance, but feel free to correct me. 

The power comes from within, and nowhere else.  The first hermeticists operated from the standpoint of the qabalistic belief of the divine spark residing within each of us, that separates us from the beasts.  Today, if you wish to remain scientific, you can compare it to the observer theory of quantum physics, as well as many other quantum theorems.  You can also throw in quite a few other things from psychology, if you wish.  I recommend The New Hermetics, by Jason Augustus Newcomb, if you wish to know more on how to mix the Western Mystery Tradition with modern science.  It also gives a very powerful and easy system for attainment in magick, so it does tie back to the other contingent for this question.

Lastly, nothing you have asked is foolish.  These are the best questions I have seen in a long time.

To give a postscript, I see you also ask how one harnesses the powers of nature.  To answer that, I have to go a little esoteric.  You see, I am a Thelemite, and I believe in the revelation of the Book of the Law.  One of the main tenets that I have gleaned from this, every person is the sole creator and inhabitant of their own universe.  Other people are simply things that we invite in.  Thus, the forces of nature in our lives are simply psychological paths that we can not only travel, but shape.   It is YOUR MIND.  Don't make it up, simply make it!

Bloodsong

the fool on the hill

if i am pure of soul will the practice of magic ever harm me? or other peers?

basics: does the power emanate from the mind itself? why is it magic, why not pranic force or the power of strong thought?

the fool on the hill

should i read this? The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer: Being A Complete System of Occult Philosophy at the Internet Sacred Texts Archive
seems pretty intresting but i dont want to learn lies...

bloodsong

Magick is the process of purifying the soul.  As for harming yourself, that depends on how you use the magick.  It is a blind force.  Like electricity, it is not good or evil, it does not have a life.  It is only what we direct.  Just as electricity can be used to either power a surgical theatre while a child recieves a transplant, or kill someone in the electric chair, magick is only as good or evil as the person using it.  If you have confidence you are not evil, your magick will likely not harm anyone.

As for learning the basics, if I were you, I would start with Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig, and/or The New Hermetics, by Jason Augustus Newcomb.  Both of these are very good and will teach you both the basics and some advanced techniques.  Modern Magick especially will prepare you to read more advanced books, like the old grimoires.

As for the Magus, by Francis Barrett, it is alright, but basically plagarized from Three Books of Occult Philosophy by Henry Cornelius Agrippa.  Same info, different presentation.  From experience, while the Sacred Text Archives are great, nothing beats having the hard copy.  Amazon can help you get many of these titles for less than ten dollars if you aren't afraid of less than stellar production-styled books.  In this catagory, Kessinger Publishing is the lowest cost, but the presentation is often less than best. 

Bloodsong

P.S.  As for where the magick comes from, that is a matter of much debate, and I will not get into it.  Stating for someone else where magick comes from is rather like trying to dictate to them what religion they should follow.

the fool on the hill

thanks, one last question thought. the hermetics are very intresting, anything deep you can tell me about them?



bloodsong

The most deep thought that has ever been uttered from any magician to a seeker is this. "Stop asking, start doing."  Please feel free to ask more questions once you have actually done your first ritual, though.

Bloodsong

the fool on the hill

alright, how & what can i do a ritual for? to make it rain or guidance from an angel??? sry for the questions i'm just curious about a very skeptic subject and i dont want to fall in to delusion again... uhh what does it take to do the ritual as well.   are rituals the only way?

bloodsong

Really, all you need is the drive to do the ritual.  You seem to be completely in the dark about what magick is.  My best advice, go to Amazon.com and buy Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig.  It is a practical and theoretical primer on magick and hermeticism. 

I would answer all these questions for you, but Kraig really does it more eloquently and concisely than I can.

Bloodsong

the fool on the hill

already read a lot of books, it's pretty intresting because the magic comes from the power of the mind (i think). i only want to try 3 rituals to see if it truly works. i was thinking the lesser banishing spell of the pentagon (which i rlly need some instructions on the qabalistic cross because i dont get it), the creation of an elemental (passive), and something else. what do you think?

bloodsong

Magick is something that requires training and hard work.  You can try to do what you plan, however don't be suprised if your results echo your efforts up to this point.  You will have much more success after years of practice than after only a few minutes of performing your first ritual.

Most of the magick books, if they are the "grimoires" found all over online, are very much advanced, and are missing a lot of information.  That is because they were really more like notebooks than "how-tos".  Unless you have some training or experience, you won't be able to do much with those books.

If, on the other hand, you have read primers from the metaphysical section, you have a basis for actual work.  However, you are still limited by lack of experience, and what exactly is the truth behind the teachings in those books.  The plain truth is that many of the books out there now are from fluffies who don't really know the first thing about magick.  I have above mentioned two books that I know and trust.  I will not advise on unnamed books teaching you how to do these things, and stand by those recommendations.

Bloodsong

the fool on the hill

thanks. what do you think about shamanism? i feel like it might be the best because the shamans have not died out like the druids or mages did. If i get in to this work am i putting my loved ones in paril of demons? can i protect them? uhh and also... am i condemming my soul if i use necromancy/shamanism?

bloodsong

These are all questions of faith.  Shamans are better for those who are willing to recognize the authority of nature and its interaction with humanity.  Druidry has made a legitimate comeback, as recognized with many schools online with recognition throughout the British Isles as historically relevant.  Mages have never died out, if by mage you mean ceremonial magicians.  They are the best unbroken line, in my opinion.  Despite centuries of persecution by the Holy Roman and Spanish Inquisitions (which both still exist, by the way.), written records can be found in all ages and years of practicing magicians.

That being said, the specific draw is all up to the individual seeker, according to that seekers faith and preference.  As for if "demonic forces" will take over you or your family, that depends on your faith.  If you are a devout Christian, who follow the sects of Christianity that this is evil, and a path straight to Hell, then this is not for you.  If, on the other hand, you are unhappy with your current faith, you need to start your magical career with a bit of work in deciding exactly what you believe to be Truth.

You have never mentioned what you expect to get out of this, or what you want to work for, which is your business.  But you sound like you need to really start by questioning your motivations.  If you don't feel your motivations are in sync with your morals, you have more work to do with that ethical dilemma than with the magical basics.  After all, the first precept of the mage is, "Know thyself."

Bloodsong

the fool on the hill

thank you   (read my rune post)

malganis

#16
Hey bloodsong, i have several questions about middle pillar exercise if you can answer them.

When you vibrate EHEJEH do you imagine kether vibrating or your whole body?
Do you vibrate the whole formule in the same breath like JEHOVA ELOA VEDAAT or can you split it in two breaths?
In what mental state are you when doing this exercise? In altered or ordinary? Or does that come with time?
When you for example do the  middle pillar exercise, locking of the aura, LBRP at the same time do you do the cabalistic cross at the start and the end of each ritual or just one at the start and one at the end?

Do you have to meditate on each sephirot about its characteristics? When and for how long? How long does it take that they are built in the psyche? Do the sephirots must be formed to use them for manifestations or you can do it before?

EDIT: In the book i read about this it's also said that your legs must be held together at whole length. Why is that? I have to tie up my knees so my legs aren't separated.
"What are you doing here, Nasrudin? his neighbor asks. "I'm looking for a key which I lost
in the wood?" Nasrudin replies. "Why don't you look for it in the wood?" says the neighbor,
wondering at Nasrudin's folly. "Because there is much more light here"

bloodsong

Mal,

This is where imagination comes into play.  This ritual has as many permutations as there are practitioners. 

That being said, a few personal opinions.  Please feel free to adopt or throw away any of these. 

The best time to meditate on the meanings of the sephiroth is before you are doing any ritual.  That way, when it comes up in a ritual, the correct frame of mind is already at your natural disposal. 

The best way that I have found to vibrate names is in a single breath.  Experiment to find the pacing you need to use to get that name out, but it is also a matter of preference, so experiment with it both ways and decide for yourself.

Any time you do a ritual, you are entering an altered state.  If you aren't, what is the point?

I just noticed, I skipped over your first question.  As for what you imagine "vibrating", much like vibrating the names themselves, it is a matter of preference, and you only find that through experimentation.

The last point that I want to address is that if you are not comfortable, you won't present the correct frame of mind in ritual.  Unless of course being out of the comfort zone is the point of the ritual.  That being said, don't feel the need to bind your knees.  Just stand with your feet as close together as you can manage comfortably and you will do fine.

Bloodsong

malganis

"What are you doing here, Nasrudin? his neighbor asks. "I'm looking for a key which I lost
in the wood?" Nasrudin replies. "Why don't you look for it in the wood?" says the neighbor,
wondering at Nasrudin's folly. "Because there is much more light here"