masculine/feminine + four elements correlation?

[Lysear]

The way I understand it is that feminine and masculine are just another way of showing dualties.

[Adrian]

Greetings kifyre,

quote:Originally posted by kifyre

Is the masculine/feminine another way of saying yin/yang or electric/magnetic (fluids)?

Neither I would say. Gender is not directly related to the fluids in my opinion, although the male and female anatomy is analogous to the fluids. Yin/Yang is really positive/negative, and the fluids exhibit both of these.

quote:

Also, masculine and feminine both have passive and active aspects. Does this correlate somehow with the four elements?

All the best,

Mark

If I understand your question correctly I would say yes. But again, like the fluids, the elements all have positive and negative attributes, an so gender is not directly related to the elements.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[n/a]

yes, you are wright kifyre.
ELEMENT EARTH IS MASCULINUM
ELEMENT WATER IS FEMININUM
ELEMENT FIRE IS MASCULINUM(THE HIGHEST MASCULINE ELEMENT)
ELEMENT AIR IS FEMININUM(THE HIGHEST FEMININE ELEMENT)
5.TH AELEMENT IS ANDROGEN(BOTH MALE AND FEMALE, WITHOUT SPECIFICAL ATRIBUTES. IT IS REPRESENTED AS TOP PEAK OF THE PYRAMID.)
I MUST SAY THE POOR ADRIAN DOESN´T KNOW ALOT.

[Tisha]

APOPHIS,

Perhaps in your tradition, things as are you say.  In MINE:

Earth - - feminine
Air - - - Masculine
Water - - - feminine
Fire - - - masculine
Spirit - - - transcends dualities

And, being such an "expert" in eastern traditions I am surprised that you did not identify the element of metal.

Also, you seem to be trying to bait Adrian.  Perhaps because he actually DOES know something of which you THINK you know?  Otherwise you would not bother to try to get his hackles up.

Is it a sick little hobby of ceremonial magicians?
Playing this game of one-up-man-ship?  
Is this an OTO tradition, snobbery?  
WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF ONEUPMANSHIP?
WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF SNOBBERY?

[n/a]

Tish, you are not Adrian´s mom, I hope!
ELEMENT OF METAL IS FIRE
ELEMENT OF WOOD IS WOOD.
AND TISH, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN TRADITION, WHILE READING COMERCIAL BOOKS.
ELEMENT OF EARTH IS THE FIRST, BECAUSE IT IS THE MATTER, SLOWEST ENERGY FORM.
EARTH YOU CAN GRAB WITH YOUR HANDS.
AND IT IS HARD,THE MOST SOLID MALE.
ELEMENT OF WATER IS THE SECOND, BECAUSE IT IS THE NEXT, ACORDING TO SPEED, ELEMENT, AND YOU CANNOT REALY HOLD IT IN MATERIAL SENSE,
AND IT IS SUBTLE, AS A WOMAN. BUT SLOW.
THE NEXT, ACCORDING TO SPEED, ENERGY IS ATTACKY, MALE ENERGY, YOU CANNOT TOUCH IT, BUT STILL YOU CAN SEE-IT.
THE MOST SUBTLER AND THE FASTES OF THE ELEMENTS IS ROUNDISH, FEMALE ELEMENT OF AIR, YOU CANNOT SEE-IT, YOU CANNOT TOUCH IT, AND IT IS THE FASTES IN THE MOST SUBTLER, FEMININE SENSE.
SPIRIT IS THE SAME AS ELEMENT OF AIR.
AND THERE BEGINS THE STORY ABOUT 5TH AELEMENT, THE TOP OF THE PYRAMID.
THE 5TH WHICH IS THE 9TH, AND IT IS WILL!

[n/a]

ELEMENT OF EARTH IS ELEMENT OF WOOD!
-I MUST ADD!
TISH, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TO TAKE YOUR PILLS, THAT DOCTOR HAVE PRESCRIBED TO YOU.
THANKS!

[Tisha]

hee hee hee! Apopis, you're so funny.

Earth:  The seed is planted in this fertile ground, and life springs forth. The Woman as Earth metaphor is as old as time. I rest my case.

And air?  The mental, the analytical, the inspired, the thoughtful, the studious element.  Associated primarily with the masculine, the active, the initiating of new things.

But there is no need to get into a tinkling contest about what's what; many cultures work magic after all, and they work with the elements and the four (five, six, whatever) directions, and obviously they have their own ideas.  As long as the magic works, it's good.

Instead of getting arrogant and pedantic about it, why not ask some questions of people who have other traditions?  You might learn something.  In fact, a new thread about Elements and the Directions might make a good discussion topic.  Maybe I'll start one!

[Lysear]

quote:Is it a sick little hobby of ceremonial magicians?
Playing this game of one-up-man-ship?
Is this an OTO tradition, snobbery?
WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF ONEUPMANSHIP?
WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF SNOBBERY

Tisha, I do not wish to argue with you, as I have a lot of respect for yor opinions and your tradition/methods. Although I do not class myself as a ceremonial magician, i use a lot of ceremonial techniques (i used to call myself ceremonial, but i dont really know what I am!) anyway, I speak to a lot of ceremonial magicians who do not show a hint of arrogance, and to generalise like this is bad form

[Tisha]

I apologize for that Lysear, that was actually (partly)crossover from another post (which I know is bad form), but I actually apologized to Apophis in that other post.   I found him snobbish and rude, but unwisely responded to him with my own rudeness and presumptions - - and felt bad about it afterwards.

[Lysear]

accepted, we all get a little heated somethimes, especially when arguing with a brick wall[]

[Links Shadow]

quote:Originally posted by APOPHIS


ELEMENT EARTH IS MASCULINUM
ELEMENT AIR IS FEMININUM(THE HIGHEST FEMININE ELEMENT)

I would have to disagree with you on this one.  Have you ever heard the old sayings, Mother earth, mother nature.  Father sky, is not as commonly used but I have heard it before.  If you believe these saying which have been used for millennia, you would have to say that Earth is aligned with the feminine and the sky or air would be aligned with the masculine.

Please don't use capitals unless it is proper grammar, like at the beginning of a sentence.  It is disrespectful, it is like you are talking down to everyone that reads your posts.

Respectfully,
Link's Shadow

[n/a]

you are so normal, and polite to each other that it
makes me puke.
thanks, Tish for being still awake, and still talking about elements, from a jewish point of view.
"It is disrespectful, it is like you are talking down to everyone that reads your posts."
-but offcourse! Shadow sotis.

regarding aelements, you are mixing planet Earth, the mother,
with aelement of Earth, which you may find even on Saturn(the planet) aelement of Earth hard, solid-masculinum,grounding, the root.

-mixing. that´s your problem.
and mother, as mother-fi ISIS, is aelement of water.
the woman that is to emotional-just like you Tish!

the air, or the sky is aegyptian GODDESS NU.
not NUT! -you must be carefull with that last letter!
that´s not the same as Nu.
AND NU is a woman.
but talking about the purity of fluids,
the air, roundish, galant, just like Nu,
is always the most FEMININE.

thought, single one, masculinum is the aelement of Earth
and, moved by the aelement of air(femininum)
>just as it is man driven´ by the woman.
and that´s the quadrangulum round.
-when all secrets you can found!

and, I must add, you cannot have a several traditions.
One tradition is the basis! that is the ground, that is the root.
the aelement of Earth(not the planet!)
Otherwise, you can become just like Tish.
no root -no growth.

[goingslow]

quote:Originally posted by APOPHIS


you are so normal, and polite to each other that it
makes me puke.
aelement of Earth hard, solid-masculinum,grounding, the root.

I had to laugh at that.  I think at times it is taken too far.  To the point where people are afraid to disagree due to how it will make them look.  Less advanced?  Maybe they'll get judgements on ego work that needs to be done.

Its better to say "thank you for your observation im a moron" however, I beg to differ.. IMHO I am not.. etc.. etc.
with much love, etc etc"

sometimes I also want to yell at people to get real.  Its prob just my ego though.  Right Adrian?

[goingslow]

btw aphophis.. you're a little too impressed with yourself.
It's actually sickening to see especially since you're not showing all that much to be impressed about.

Tone it down a little.. a little more information with a little less 5 year old Im better than you crap, please.

[Tisha]

Ah, so we are still discussing male/female attributes of the elements. One might argue - - - and I don't mean this as conciliation - - - because that would be boring - - - that the elements contain elements (ha ha) of both. For instance, in some cultures the sun (fire) is a god, and sometimes it is a goddess.

WATER:  "subtle, like a woman, but slow." (Do you mean slow like a woman too, Apopis?)  I agree that water, to me and many others, is feminine, but it is due (in my mind) to the monthly tides of the powerful ocean . . . as metaphor for a woman's menstrual cycles, and her powerful (but predictable) bursts of emotion.

AIR:  OK, I can see air being fast.  But over here, speed is associated with masculinity, as are air's other attributes.

FIRE: Runs hot and fast, can't last without constant feeding, exhausts itself too quickly, and completely destructive when out of control.  Yep, definitely masculine.

EARTH: Still gotta disagree with you on this one Apopis.

ANYWAY, Apopis, you once again presume too much, although this seems a disturbing pattern between the two of us.  I don't have many traditions; I have one: Working in accordance with metaphysical law in the celtic, hereditary witchcraft tradition.  The fact that I've immersed myself in different tradtions to learn about them (I minored in Native American studies) does not mean I have adopted their traditions as my own.  In fact, I even practiced some Discordian magic in college . . . how exhausting! . . . but that fact does not make me a Discordian. The fact that I spent 5 years in a Dianic coven doesn't mean I'm Dianic; it means that's where the other witches in my town were doing their work and I needed a social outlet. At heart I am a solitary magicworker.  Now that we've gotten that out of the way, maybe we can stop making accusations at each other.  

(And I'm only emotional when I get PMS.  So there NYAH, don't MESS with me this week.)

As for being normal and polite, that is the way this site's founder, Mr. Robert Bruce, intends it to be.  There are a handful of moderators on this Forum whose job it is to make sure it doesn't become like OTHER metaphysical forums, where PMS-style rages are more the norm than the exception.  Apopis, if you find enjoyment and satisfaction out of being mean, condescending, and accusatory in your online manner, there are any number of metaphysical websites with members who would be MORE than willing to engage in flame-wars with you.  

Everyone, it's OK to disagree with people, and even suggest they are ignorant, or even that they've gone flaming mad.  But there are ways to argue your points in ways that won't get your IP Address locked out of further conversation. I'm content to say things have not gone THAT far downhill.

[n/a]

Cheap tricks.
you didn´t even copy -pasted my quote corectly Trish.
you are trying to put me down, discredit my knowledge
that is correct, to confuse some conformists.
put me out of here, because I disagree with you.
WITH A CAPS-LOCK!
and you have put all dogs at me,
but still, you know nothing about elements.
only theory from the comercial books.
and that is the maximum of your domain, moderators.
making money for the Owner, reading books on the Internet.
but you are doing it very poorly.
I hope you get a notice.
because only what are you capable of,
you technocratic idiots with no mystic value is
HTML-witchhunting.
If some of your family gets killed,
-that´s my magic.

if not, I AM an Amateur.
good luck!

[Tisha]

OK . . . I shall cut and paste THIS.

quote:If some of your family gets killed,
-that´s my magic.

if not, I AM an Amateur.
good luck!

You'd actually kill someone over being disagreed with on an internet Forum?  Then you have honestly, and truly, gone flaming mad.  I feel sorry for you.

Apophis, you are confusing this website for others, Astralpulse is free for everyone, and the online books are free too.  It's too bad you didn't listen to my and others' admonitions about online etiquette; i.e., "netiquette," because we are dead serious about it.
People who threaten other people, especially with death threats, are locked off the Forum.  I shall bring this thread to the attention to the administrator.

Goodbye Apophis.

[Adrian]

Greetings Goingslow,

quote:Originally posted by goingslow

Its better to say "thank you for your observation im a moron" however, I beg to differ.. IMHO I am not.. etc.. etc.
with much love, etc etc"

sometimes I also want to yell at people to get real.  Its prob just my ego though.  Right Adrian?

No one has any problems whatsoever with disagreements per se however extreme they might be. Open debate on these subjects is one of the reasons for the existence of this forum as well as for learning from each other.

Disagreement should not equate to disrespect however. People can put across a point of view as forcefully as necessary by using the appropriate wording in support of the position, but providing always there is no profanity, provocation, disrespect or other inflamatory behaviour. Anyone who really believes in what they are saying and has a good command of the English language can put forward any argument in a proper manner, and it will be respected.

These forums have been operating for 18 months and only recently have we seen problems with members. These problems have been, and will continue to be robustly dealt with for the benefit of the vast majority of valued members.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[clandestino]

hi there apophis !

quote:and that is the maximum of your domain, moderators.
making money for the Owner, reading books on the Internet.
but you are doing it very poorly.
I hope you get a notice.
because only what are you capable of,
you technocratic idiots with no mystic value is
HTML-witchhunting.
If some of your family gets killed,
-that´s my magic.

Clearly you are an aspiring poet, not a magician !

I know very little about magic, so I'm not about to blow my own trumpet. But this thread is a good example of how easy it is for people to post information on a forum, which at first glance, looks to have value. But when the "true colours" of the author are revealed, the reader must re-evaluate whether or not to trust those opinions.

Apophis, clearly you too have read plenty of commercial books ! Crowley's book of law has been published time & time again in numerous languages....shame the guy couldn't have made any profit on his commercial venture when he was still alive.
best regards

Mark

[goingslow]

Its really disgusting a person would resort to that.

I think Im beginning to see what Adrian means about black magic not being real magic.  What type of person would even try pulling that stuff?

[Aristoles]

I have a little theorie or how you spell it.

Feminine would be fast but as fast it gets tired easily.
Masculine is slow in beginning but is hardier.

This comes from my theorie that women have easier way of finding "magic" and more interest in it,while men have a harder time finding it and less interest,but are more capable.

[n/a]

I agree with you.
"This comes from my theorie that women have easier way of finding "magic" and more interest in it,while men have a harder time finding it and less interest,but are more capable.""

but offcourse,
because the women part operate in the Energetic world
and the men part operate only in the physical world.

when I say part, I mean it only in Energetic sense.
I do not consider division of the sexes.
because only a few choosed with what sex they will be born.

to be a Mage, you must have both parts.
Mage is the 3RD part in the duality.
not the second, or the first.

electron-neutron-proton.
trimaterialism is the start.

[kifyre]

Is the masculine/feminine another way of saying yin/yang or electric/magnetic (fluids)?

Also, masculine and feminine both have passive and active aspects. Does this correlate somehow with the four elements?

All the best,

Mark