Mystic vs Occultist

[Cruel Tendencies]

The goal of a mystic is in essence, union with the divine.  Often they take the path of leaving the world behind in order to reach toward God.  An occultist, or magician, seeks to draw the divine down into our world in order to accomplish tasks or fulfill desires, or what have you.  There is a lot of overlapping, and I personally am not sure you can really be successful at either and not also achieve some degree of success with the other.


Paul

[The AlphaOmega]

They are just words.  In actuality a cult is no different then a religion.  I'm sure most would disagree, but what's the difference.  Being in a cult is simply believing in something and performing rituals that coincide with that belief.  No one ever said that a cult means you sacrifice children or believe you yourself are God.  Though some may, doesn't mean they all do.  Anyone who forms a congregation and worships something is TECHNICALLY in a cult, even if they do not consider themselves to be in one.  No need to put such labels on things.  Christian, catholic, mormon, jewish... all believe in God.  They just believe differently about God.  It's all pretty silly and meaningless in the grand sceme of things.  To answer your question though... I guess the difference is basically what you want to call yourself.  I probably believe a lot of the same things as some mystics do, but I don't call myself a mystic.

[Gandalf]

There is no real difference. The word 'occult' simply means 'hidden' and refers to hidden knowledge. Occultists seek to learn this hidden knowedge to aquire truth. As do mystics. They are just two terms for the same thing.

The only reason that the word 'occult' has negative connotations in some circles is due to church propaganda which has sought to 'demonise' anything to do with occultism.. after all, they do not want people going and finding out things for themselves now do they.
The idea that Occultists, as opposed to mystics, aquire knowedge to change material circumstances is wrong.
That practice is called Magick (spelled with a K to set it apart from stage 'magic')
Any mystic OR occultist who uses such knowedge to affect material circumstances is technically a magician.
btw, I have no problems with magicians per say, I take my hat off to those who can improve their material circumstances through application of the knowedge they have leaned... its hard work though!

Its a shame that occultists have been tarnished by the church.. this propaganda is very powerful.. for example, how often do you see 'occultism' equeted with 'satanism' in the press as if they are one and the same thing? The irony is that proper occultists (and I don't mean sad deluded nu-metal, goth teeny rebels) don't even believe in the devil, which is a mainnstream religious concept which they are trying to rise above!



Douglas

[Cruel Tendencies]

Well, yes, in essence everything is the same, in the grand scheme of things.  I don't know about you, but I'm personally not evolved enough to say "I am one with the universe."  I still have to get up and go to work, and have to call this thing I'm typing on a computer, and the thing I'm sitting on a chair.  I can't just say "It's all part of me" because my senses show me that it is, in fact, distinct from me.

The terms "mystic" and "occultist," while they deal with a lot of the same material, do in fact have different connotations (and denotations).  It's like equating a carpenter with a steelworker because they're both in the construction business.  As I said, though, the terms do overlap a good bit and cover a lot of the same stuff.  


Paul

[Gandalf]

Ok then, explain the difference.

Occultists seek after hidden 'occult' knowedge in order to search for truth.

Mystics search after hidden 'occult' knowedge in order to search for truth.

The only difference is a mistaken difference, as the term occult is usually interpreted wrongly, as I have already stated.

You say that 'Occultists' are defined as those who use their knowedge to affect material circumstances.... This definition is wrong.
However, the word occult is commonly interpreted in this fashion.

Douglas

[echo]

magic is one of two things
1. it is an aswome card game called magic the gathering
2. it's an illusion that can catch an eye off the dime (in othere words your slow!!!!)
and the other thing is
Occultists seek after hidden 'occult' knowedge in order to search for truth.

Mystics search after hidden 'occult' knowedge in order to search for truth.

well thats it

[kakkarot]

an assassin would be an occultist, but are they neccessarily mystics?

the term "mystical" is used by mundanes to explain things which they can't figure out. its use has been phased out somewhat by the spread of the ideals of science and scientists (especially with the idea that nothing is magical, merely unknown physical phenomena) which has phased out many such words because they have connotations towards the idea of "magical" things.

occult mean 'hidden', as others have said. so occultism is anything that deals with anything 'hidden' (hence the assassin example since would not an assassin strive to keep his doings, his agenda, his life all hidden from others?), though many connotatively speak of it as meaning metaphysical things "only" (whether they purposefully believe it is metaphysical only or merely forget that physical things are included, i do not know). usually when people speak of 'hidden' in the idea of occultism, they mean to say knowledge/skills/understanding/abilities/non-physical-phenomena/etc which mundanes do not know about or know how to utilize.

basically: mysticism deals with things which mundanes do not understand, occultism deals with things which mundanes do not know. small differentiation which some people do not even see as a difference.

what people who call themselves mystics or occultists DO is somewhat irrelavent because many people call themselves something even though they do not do things that are in coersion with the name. ie, christians who act very unchristian, democratic politicians who do not represent the people, so-called martial artists who teach/practice the martial arts merely for excercise, etc.

~kakkarot

[Arc]

so,how could anyone call themselves a mystic? just being able to understand what the norm's dont? Wouldnt that mek some people at the site mystics then?

[lifebreath]

I'll give it a feable effort ...

Mysticism is an encounter with the Divine. Occultism is the study of secret things, typically "esoterica" or "hidden wisdom." Mystical encounters usually lead to some understanding of hidden mysteries. So, the mystic winds up being an "occultist!" Studying the "occult science" on the other hand does not necessarily make for mystical encounter. One can learn various techniques of controlling forces without conciously encountering the divine.

I think the common view of occultism relates specifically to the practice of magic, especially of a personal or elemental nature, i.e., where the magician is the source of magical operation (personal magic) or is the instrument of elemental forces (sorcery).

This is in contrast to a third type of "magic," which could be termed divine magic, where the magician is the instrument of divine power. People typically would call this operation the "working of miracles" or "wonderworking." In this case, there is a free union of the human will with divine will and the subjugation of the dense to the subtle, i.e., matter under force, force under conciousness, and conciousness under superconciousness or divine will.

The first two types are, in my opinion, "ursurpatory," in that they are not guided by the divine, but rather are for personal gain and the will to power, or even worse, for manipulating and controlling others against their wills. These types of magic create astral entities of varying degrees of negativity, substance and strength, whereas divine magic creates positive entities or lends force to existing positive entities to carry out the Good.

By way of analogy, magic is very much like science ... the various principles involved and the knowledge of these principles can be manipulated for good or evil or anywhere in between, depending on the state and attitude of the practitioner. Without real mystical encounters that give birth to real knowlege, the "hidden wisdom" is bound to become degraded into the multitude of magical systems that exist to fulfill the will to power, such as was typified, in my opinion, by Alister Crowley and the OTO.

I know I digressed a little bit from your question, but I think it had a bearing on your underlying inquiry.

quote:
That night God appeared to Solomon and said to him, "Ask for whatever you want me to give you."

Solomon answered God, "You have shown great kindness to David my father and have made me king in his place. Now, LORD God, let your promise to my father David be confirmed, for you have made me king over a people who are as numerous as the dust of the earth. Give me wisdom and knowledge, that I may lead this people, for who is able to govern this great people of yours?"

God said to Solomon, "Since this is your heart's desire and you have not asked for wealth, riches or honor, nor for the death of your enemies, and since you have not asked for a long life but for wisdom and knowledge to govern my people over whom I have made you king, therefore wisdom and knowledge will be given you. And I will also give you wealth, riches and honor, such as no king who was before you ever had and none after you will have."

[lifebreath]

And, as Paul wrote to the church in Corinth ...

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge [occult knowledge], and if I have a faith that can move mountains [magic - occult knowlege put into practice], but have not love [union with the divine will], I am nothing."

[bracketed comments mine.]

[Coffee]

if an occultist may be a mystic, the who loves life breath?  listen to echo, he's hella smart.  also, who cares what the difference is?  They're the same look it up, tbe definitions are based on perspective.

[Robroy]

Hello:

Can anyone tell me the difference between a Mystic and an Occultist?  It is my understanding that an Occultist may be a Mystic, but a Mystic may not necessarily be an Occultist.  That is not a good definition, but thought I would slip that in.

Any takers on that?

Robroy