I guess it's time to stop lurking

[ClassicBrew]

I figured it was time to finally stop lurking and introduce myself.

I'm 55, married, two daughters, software developer, classical guitarist, homebrewer, very much a science-oriented background, very much NOT a touchy-feely type. 

I started this journey after my father died.  We'd been estranged for over 20 years, and I was just about to try and reconnect, when I learned (through a call from a bill collector!) that he had died in March.  I had more difficulty around this than I had expected, and my uncle (his brother) suggested I read Proof of Heaven.  I think I finished that book in about three days.

This all got me to thinking about an experience I'd had in college.  I read Bob Monroe's first book and tried some of the techniques.  I honestly don't know if anything really happened or not, but about the fourth or fifth try, I distinctly felt myself move to the corner of the room.  No sight, nothing but the sense of movement.  I got excited, and that killed the experience.  For some reason, I didn't try again.  I honestly can't remember why.

Fast forward 30 years to now.  After reading Proof of Heaven, I bought William Buhlman's first book, then began reading as much as I could get my hands on.  I first started seriously trying to project (phase) about four months ago.  What I've done so far is try Buhlman's "Now I'm out of body", and Target Technique nightly as I go to sleep.  The most that's happened from that is some phantom wiggling, but I fall asleep too fast for anything useful.  I've given up on that.

At lunch, I find a quiet spot to park, and listen to various Hemi-Sync CDs, Buhlman's techniques, Gateway Wave I, etc.  One time, I felt the vibrations pretty strong, heart beating rapidly, but that's as far as it went.  Since then the most that's happened is I feel mild vibrations.

I'm going to post my thoughts for the new year in another area, but I believe I've been (as most beginners do) trying too many different techniques, not sticking with one, and not really getting anywhere.  I've been reading the compilations of Frank Kepple's posts, and Practical Guide, and have found those to be very, very good.

Great board.  It's so wonderful to have the kind of resources, and community now days that the InterWeb allows. 

[Szaxx]

Hi Scott,
Its nice to have you on board. You'll find plenty of good advice here and we can help with any questions you have. Great intro, you've started the ball rolling way back so something is already planted in your subconscious, it's
time to wake it up.

[soarin12]

Welcome Scott.  Glad you could join us.  Just a tip for vibrations - Mild vibrations (even the tiniest hint of them) can be turned into full powerful vibrations with your mind.  Affirm that you will now project, lie still and relaxed, and when you feel the tiniest energy sensations (mild vibrations) in any part of your body, imagine them increasing and spreading to your whole body.  When the vibrations are at full, go ahead and separate. This may not be difficult for you considering you have already felt strong vibes once and so remember the sensation. 

I actually used that technique last night and went OOB twice.

Also, know that you don't HAVE to feel vibes in order to project.

Best of luck in your journey!

[mcdwg]

Welcome to the forum Scott, the following is how it happened to me.  I read and read about the subject just for the sake of knowledge, at the time I wasn't trying to have an AP yet because I was afraid but I was fascinated with the subject so I read all of Monroe's books, plus Bruce Moens' experiences and after about 4 months I had an OBE.  In my personal opinion if you have expectations on wanting to have an AP it may work against you since once you start feeling it will not work the frustration might work as a block to having the first one.  I'd say learn as much as possible about the subject, try techniques once in a while but without any expectation and before you know it you may have one.

My two cents and again welcome to the forum

[Permanently Grounded]

My advice to you is this: don't expect to learn much -if anything- from these forums, as I sincerely doubt anyone here is truly able to project! It seems very common here to confuse silly dreams, however realistic,  with actual OOBE's. Reading thru the message boards what seems quite clear is that most posters seem completely incapable of separating their overactive imaginations & fantasies from what an actual out of body experience is ..yet that doesn't stop them from having the audacity to offer advice to others! They remind me of those religious fanatics who go around claiming to have a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ and how they can "talk" to him as well when the brutal truth is that there is NO Jesus Christ, never was. Yet you'll read about all kinds of 'religious encounters' here. All religions contain about a .0003%  kernel of truth wrapped up in 97,894 layers of 99.9997% bullkrap.
You'd think an advanced projector would know that fact.

Moreover the writing skills of most people here seem to be at a 6th grade level, which would indicate to me that most posters lack the necessary sophistication to offer a valid opinion on such a profoundly deep topic as are OOBE's. While I understand that many of those who post here may not speak English as their primary language, the overall lack of quality exchanges seems to bear out the fact that most posters are inexperienced adolescents who suffer from childishly fertile imaginations coupled with the inability to separate truth from fantasy. An actual OOBE will hit you like a ton of bricks with such force that you could NEVER have any doubts about whether is was 'real' or not.

I myself only had ONE single OOBE in my entire life, yet it resulted absolutely life-changing and unequivocally real. You can read about it somewhere in the forums. My personal experience involved having 360 degree vision yet I have found NO ONE here talking about having had a similar experience. How can that be, if all these people are theoretically 'projecting'?

[Xanth]

My advice to you is this: don't expect to learn much -if anything- from these forums, as I sincerely doubt anyone here is truly able to project! It seems very common here to confuse silly dreams, however realistic,  with actual OOBE's. Reading thru the message boards what seems quite clear is that most posters seem completely incapable of separating their overactive imaginations & fantasies from what an actual out of body experience is ..yet that doesn't stop them from having the audacity to offer advice to others! They remind me of those religious fanatics who go around claiming to have a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ and how they can "talk" to him as well when the brutal truth is that there is NO Jesus Christ, never was. Yet you'll read about all kinds of 'religious encounters' here. All religions contain about a .0003%  kernel of truth wrapped up in 97,894 layers of 99.9997% bullkrap.
You'd think an advanced projector would know that fact.

Moreover the writing skills of most people here seem to be at a 6th grade level, which would indicate to me that most posters lack the necessary sophistication to offer a valid opinion on such a profoundly deep topic as are OOBE's. While I understand that many of those who post here may not speak English as their primary language, the overall lack of quality exchanges seems to bear out the fact that most posters are inexperienced adolescents who suffer from childishly fertile imaginations coupled with the inability to separate truth from fantasy. An actual OOBE will hit you like a ton of bricks with such force that you could NEVER have any doubts about whether is was 'real' or not.

I myself only had ONE single OOBE in my entire life, yet it resulted absolutely life-changing and unequivocally real. You can read about it somewhere in the forums. My personal experience involved having 360 degree vision yet I have found NO ONE here talking about having had a similar experience. How can that be, if all these people are theoretically 'projecting'?

Aren't you just the little judgmental fellow, eh?

I figured it was time to finally stop lurking and introduce myself.

I'm 55, married, two daughters, software developer, classical guitarist, homebrewer, very much a science-oriented background, very much NOT a touchy-feely type.  

I started this journey after my father died.  We'd been estranged for over 20 years, and I was just about to try and reconnect, when I learned (through a call from a bill collector!) that he had died in March.  I had more difficulty around this than I had expected, and my uncle (his brother) suggested I read Proof of Heaven.  I think I finished that book in about three days.

This all got me to thinking about an experience I'd had in college.  I read Bob Monroe's first book and tried some of the techniques.  I honestly don't know if anything really happened or not, but about the fourth or fifth try, I distinctly felt myself move to the corner of the room.  No sight, nothing but the sense of movement.  I got excited, and that killed the experience.  For some reason, I didn't try again.  I honestly can't remember why.

Fast forward 30 years to now.  After reading Proof of Heaven, I bought William Buhlman's first book, then began reading as much as I could get my hands on.  I first started seriously trying to project (phase) about four months ago.  What I've done so far is try Buhlman's "Now I'm out of body", and Target Technique nightly as I go to sleep.  The most that's happened from that is some phantom wiggling, but I fall asleep too fast for anything useful.  I've given up on that.

At lunch, I find a quiet spot to park, and listen to various Hemi-Sync CDs, Buhlman's techniques, Gateway Wave I, etc.  One time, I felt the vibrations pretty strong, heart beating rapidly, but that's as far as it went.  Since then the most that's happened is I feel mild vibrations.

I'm going to post my thoughts for the new year in another area, but I believe I've been (as most beginners do) trying too many different techniques, not sticking with one, and not really getting anywhere.  I've been reading the compilations of Frank Kepple's posts, and Practical Guide, and have found those to be very, very good.

Great board.  It's so wonderful to have the kind of resources, and community now days that the InterWeb allows.  

Scott, please do ignore that above rant... it's definitely not reflective of the experience and breadth this forum can offer.  

Quite the path you've traveled so far!

Unlike my friend who posted above... I suggest keeping your mind open to the possibilities that exist.  Realize that humanity has very little idea of what's going on in our minds when we do activities such as "dreaming".  When I use the term "dreaming", I use it extremely loosely, as our science really has no idea what it is or what causes it.  Nice eh... that so many people will tell you that your experiences are "just dreams"... yet we have absolutely no idea what a dream is.  Doesn't that boggle your mind?

I know it does me.  

Welcome.

[Szaxx]

HeyPG,
I see you're looking at this 360 degree vision issue with an erred perspective of semanticism.
Many aboard have this tallied in their experiential collective.
Its miniscule and applicable within the minds of the arts abedacarian, indicative of some mastery within the art antecedent of the 'astral proper' inauguration.
If you comprehend the above, your observation of the primary language of many members will offer resolution to the lower level of English utilised.
Please don't be offended, at times the cart preceeds the horse and when the tail wags the dog, you know it's a bad day.
Back to base English as many want to understand the contents of the post in one read.
The 360 degree vision applies mostly to the RTZ. My experiences with this include size changes from nano scopic to galactic, disorientation from the center of direction and in the formless environments the degree of angular perception.
This mostly occurred before I was 10 years old.
As Scott is new to the site, I'd like to add many experiences far from the physical world lookalikes constantly published everywhere exist. These include time travel and having no body whatsoever. It sounds like a line from a fantasy novel, I'll agree on that. The subjectivity between fiction and reality ends with verification. When you know it's genuine, it hits like a hammer.
Most definitely life changing.

[ClassicBrew]

Szaxx, Xanth,

I actually read PG's post earlier,  and my first thought was to reply: "Who's that trip-trapping across my bridge?"

But in the end, I figured that might be just a little too obtuse, so I decided to just ignore his post. 

Definitely got my post bumped up a little!

Thanks for all the replies.  This is definitely a great place,  trolls and all.

Scott

[Permanently Grounded]

Aren't you just the little judgmental fellow, eh?
Scott, please do ignore that above rant... it's definitely not reflective of the experience and breadth this forum can offer.  

Quite the path you've traveled so far!

Unlike my friend who posted above... I suggest keeping your mind open to the possibilities that exist.  Realize that humanity has very little idea of what's going on in our minds when we do activities such as "dreaming".  When I use the term "dreaming", I use it extremely loosely, as our science really has no idea what it is or what causes it.  Nice eh... that so many people will tell you that your experiences are "just dreams"... yet we have absolutely no idea what a dream is.  Doesn't that boggle your mind?

I know it does me.  

Welcome.

First things first: there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being judgmental. You do it every time you choose to eat a hamburger instead of a plateful of broken glass or every time you decide NOT to stick your fingers into a meat grinder to see "what happens". Judges make a living out of being judgmental. The fact is that we as a species are nothing more than advanced simians (aka monkey people) that are hard-wired to be that way. Hence the real issue isn't about 'being judgmental' but rather about the ability of being able to judge with a minimal degree of accuracy & effectiveness.

Xanth states that "humanity has very little idea of what's going on in our minds when we do activities such as "dreaming"", yet humanity has even LESS idea of what's going on while we're AWAKE! Take the mythology of American culture for example: Americans claim to live in the "most free nation on earth" yet with only 5% of the planet's population they have 25% of the world's prisoners. Some 'freedom', huh? Moreover, the USA runs a Prison-For-Profit system wherein inmates are used as forced labor to produce goods that will be sold in the open market in exchange for -literally- slave wages. Americans consider themselves "brave" yet they regularly use drone bombs to murder innocent children 7422 miles away from here as they play soccer. The USA claims to enjoy "free speech" yet all of its newspapers and television news media belong to just SIX corporations! The USA is also responsible for invading scores of other sovereign nations based of false accusations and fabricated 'evidence'. The USA has legalized torture, legalized financial fraud and legalized criminality. It operates secret courts (FISA courts) issuing secret warrants, all of which is in open violation of its own constitutional mandates. As we speak the USA is actively engaged in trying to provoke a nuclear war with China and Russia through its endless meddling in other's internal affairs, lies and abuse. How can people NOT see THIS yet still claim to know what dreams are about? To quote someone who never actually existed;

"When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, 'A shower is coming,' and so it turns out. And when you see a south wind blowing, you say, 'It will be a hot day,' and it turns out that way. You hypocrites! You know how to analyze the appearance of the earth and the sky, but why do you not analyze this present time?

I completely agree with Xanth! I too suggest keeping your mind open to the possibilities that exist ..as well as to those that DON'T.

[Permanently Grounded]

Szaxx, Xanth,

I actually read PG's post earlier,  and my first thought was to reply: "Who's that trip-trapping across my bridge?"

But in the end, I figured that might be just a little too obtuse, so I decided to just ignore his post. 

Definitely got my post bumped up a little!

Thanks for all the replies.  This is definitely a great place,  trolls and all.

Scott

My bad for trying to be helpful with your spiritual education by stating what I understand to be a truth.
Your bad for dismissing me automatically as a 'troll' simply because you didn't like what I had to say.

There, bumped you up again!

[Xanth]

Oh my... what a can I've unleashed.  My bad. 

[ClassicBrew]

PG, my sincerest apologies.  I called you a Troll, and Stupid to boot.  Neither were very nice, and for that I am truly sorry. 

It seems like you have some issues with this board.  It's unfortunate that you decided to use my post as a soapbox for your issues.  I'm just here to learn, and prove or disprove this whole OBE/Astral Projection stuff for myself.  It might be real, it might not.  But until I give it 100%, I have no basis to judge.

I sincerely wish you the best, and hope that you find what you need here.

Scott

[Xanth]

Xanth states that "humanity has very little idea of what's going on in our minds when we do activities such as "dreaming"", yet humanity has even LESS idea of what's going on while we're AWAKE!

I wanted to add that part of the difference between most people's opinions of "here" vs "there" compared to my own is that I view "here" the same as "there".
What I mean is that this physical reality is no different fundamentally from any other reality you'd experience while projecting.  This is just another "non-physical reality".

This makes the terms "physical" and "non-physical" useless... as any reality I've experienced has been as physical as this physical reality is right now.  It's all relative to what you're currently experiencing.

[Permanently Grounded]

PG, my sincerest apologies.  I called you a Troll, and Stupid to boot.  Neither were very nice, and for that I am truly sorry.  

It seems like you have some issues with this board.  It's unfortunate that you decided to use my post as a soapbox for your issues.  I'm just here to learn, and prove or disprove this whole OBE/Astral Projection stuff for myself.  It might be real, it might not.  But until I give it 100%, I have no basis to judge.

I sincerely wish you the best, and hope that you find what you need here.

Scott

Lol. Apology accepted! I should apologize myself for saying stupid things such as "I sincerely doubt anyone here is truly able to project" ...when in reality I have absolutely no facts whatsoever to back such foolish claims. It seems like I might have some issues with life itself in general, as in; I fear I may have completely soured to it! You see, part of my job involves keeping up with trending political, financial and social issues and I witness so much fraud, deception and outright criminality occurring on a daily basis that sometimes it seems I have become hopelessly & irretrievably negative. I feel like everyone is just outright lying and out to deceive me. Which is why sometimes I just get angry like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli.

Despite my personal issues, allow me to assure you that projecting is REAL and that the Astral Pulse is indeed a valuable resource for learning more about it.  Best regards.

[Szaxx]

Which is why sometimes I just get angry like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli.

Classic, witticism applauded.

I'm not going to go to a deli now.

You really need an experience in the formless environments. These reinstate your decorum and those antisocial happenings you're subjected to are minisculed.
The angry old man syndrome is banished from your psyche. 

[BillionNamesofGod]

Can someone put up a poll?
It would be interesting to know how many here have had a full blown proper OBE.

I mean The post below is so negative, made me think.

My advice to you is this: don't expect to learn much -if anything- from these forums, as I sincerely doubt anyone here is truly able to project! It seems very common here to confuse silly dreams, however realistic,  with actual OOBE's. Reading thru the message boards what seems quite clear is that most posters seem completely incapable of separating their overactive imaginations & fantasies from what an actual out of body experience is ..yet that doesn't stop them from having the audacity to offer advice to others! They remind me of those religious fanatics who go around claiming to have a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ and how they can "talk" to him as well when the brutal truth is that there is NO Jesus Christ, never was. Yet you'll read about all kinds of 'religious encounters' here. All religions contain about a .0003%  kernel of truth wrapped up in 97,894 layers of 99.9997% bullkrap.
You'd think an advanced projector would know that fact.

Moreover the writing skills of most people here seem to be at a 6th grade level, which would indicate to me that most posters lack the necessary sophistication to offer a valid opinion on such a profoundly deep topic as are OOBE's. While I understand that many of those who post here may not speak English as their primary language, the overall lack of quality exchanges seems to bear out the fact that most posters are inexperienced adolescents who suffer from childishly fertile imaginations coupled with the inability to separate truth from fantasy. An actual OOBE will hit you like a ton of bricks with such force that you could NEVER have any doubts about whether is was 'real' or not.

I myself only had ONE single OOBE in my entire life, yet it resulted absolutely life-changing and unequivocally real. You can read about it somewhere in the forums. My personal experience involved having 360 degree vision yet I have found NO ONE here talking about having had a similar experience. How can that be, if all these people are theoretically 'projecting'?

[Permanently Grounded]

Can someone put up a poll?
It would be interesting to know how many here have had a full blown proper OBE.

I mean The post below is so negative, made me think.

I tend to view things that make me think as a positive, not a negative.




Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear
-Thomas Jefferson

[Projector4life]

Permanently Grounded has brought up some good points. Just like permanently grounded, I've had one projection that was so real that I knew without a doubt this was an out of body experience. This was my first projection. Ever since then, my projections have involved some dreamlike qualities. So I agree, I have seen very few posts by forum members that match my first projection.

[Permanently Grounded]

Permanently Grounded has brought up some good points. Just like permanently grounded, I've had one projection that was so real that I knew without a doubt this was an out of body experience. This was my first projection. Ever since then, my projections have involved some dreamlike qualities. So I agree, I have seen very few posts by forum members that match my first projection.

My point exactly! I completely understand and accept Xanth's opinion insofar that we are all capable of projecting & in fact do so continuously, albeit without remembering afterwards. I get it. What I don't get is the dream thing. My one and only projection was so unequivocally lucid as to be not just real but hyper-real. 35 years later and it still has an indelible impact on me. To wit; I lost all fear of death completely after that experience, I confirmed the fact that life transcends the physical, I confirmed the fact that the world as we know it is just a small apparent part of a much, much vaster scheme of things. The only thing I didn't confirm ...quite sadly ...is whether there truly is a God. For me, the ability to confirm whether there is a God (preferably a loving one!) to whom humans can somehow relate would blow absolutely E V E R Y T H I N G else out of the water in terms of importance. EVERYTHING.


My personal experience was so real that in fact for the longest time I refused to consider 'lucid dreaming' or any other descriptions of OOBE's that included the word "dream" as true OOBEs.  
Still don't.

[soarin12]

For me, the ability to confirm whether there is a God (preferably a loving one!) to whom humans can somehow relate would blow absolutely E V E R Y T H I N G else out of the water in terms of importance. EVERYTHING.


My personal experience was so real that in fact for the longest time I refused to consider 'lucid dreaming' or any other descriptions of OOBE's that included the word "dream" as true OOBEs.  
Still don't.

Loving God experience - It absolutely does blow everything else out of the water!  Even your hyper-real OBE will be nothing in comparison.  I speak from experience.  I've been in the presence of God/ merged with God many times and at this point there is no more to wish for or desire.  You can not.  You are complete and perfect love. You are also completely and perfectly loved. It's indescribable. 

The reason you and possibly projector4life don't accept the dream thing as connected to the true OBE is that you have not had enough experiences to understand the 'sliding scale of lucidity.'  When you have your first experience that begins with a low level of lucidity (you will experience this as dreamy) and then you are able to bump up your lucidity by touching, seeing, hearing etc. the dream environment, and actually experience the environment becoming sharp and hyper-real before your very eyes, you will understand better the dream/OBE connection.

My first ones were absolutely hyper-real/blow me out of the water experiences, and then I had a few dreamier ones.  I learned how to change the dreamy ones into crystal clear by bumping up my lucidity.  Now 98% of mine are fully lucid crystal clear just like my first ones.  When I joined the forum I was told not to judge things too much before I had many experiences under my belt.  This was sound advice.  Much will become clear once you've had a bunch of them.   

[Permanently Grounded]

The reason you and possibly projector4life don't accept the dream thing as connected to the true OBE

I do accept the dream thing as being connected to a true OOBE, but only in the same way I would accept a pop-tart as a substitute for sirloin steak. 

[Xanth]

I do accept the dream thing as being connected to a true OOBE, but only in the same way I would accept a pop-tart as a substitute for sirloin steak. 

I go further than that, much further.  As far as saying this physical reality you're currently experiencing is a projection in the same way any dream is or any "astral projection" is.  Chew on that for a while. 

[soarin12]

I do accept the dream thing as being connected to a true OOBE, but only in the same way I would accept a pop-tart as a substitute for sirloin steak. 

Well, I can't argue with that!     There's no comparison on the 'sense' level.  But some of my dreams have had a life changing spiritual content so in that way I put them right up there in status with OBEs.

[Szaxx]

If we attempt to base what's real upon the ambience of ALL experiences
Those hyper real experiences are most definitely NOT in this physical environment.
Food for thought.