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And the truth shall be known? - You'll see ?

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Soulfire

Hi,

As requested, I spent about an hour on the internet and found a collection of links to respectable sources that strongly support the pole shift idea.  There were literally thousands of links I did not check that would probably yield much more information.  As I have previously said, I do not believe you can "prove" something that has not actually happened yet, but this information from credible sources seems worth a look:

http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/PSResearch/PS_Precursor/possible_precursor.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/20/north.pole/

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/tech/0203/north.pole/popup.north.pole1.gif

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/07/poles.reverse/index.html

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_564525.html?menu=



--Soulfire

WhiteLight


Orcher

quote:
As requested, I spent about an hour on the internet and found a collection of links to respectable sources that strongly support the pole shift idea.  There were literally thousands of links I did not check that would probably yield much more information.  As I have previously said, I do not believe you can "prove" something that has not actually happened yet, but this information from credible sources seems worth a look:


Anthony, those links have nothing to do with Zeta/pleidians/ predicted poleshift. In all those links I have read the information is about a "slightly" pole shifting which is totally naturally an occurs with the power of its nature (where the liquid outer core meets the overlying plastic mantle... they are even giving you the cause of that), NOT a suddenly 45 degrees earth angle change, caused by the Planet X approach witch will of course in that case bring the disaster and the catastrophic event in earth to mow down 2/3 of earth population. Again this is NOT a poleshift what you talk about, What you talk about is a SUDDEN ANGLE shift coursed by an Planet X approach.
You see the difference? You see, it seems like you picking up natural phenomena of the nature and trying to associate and construct them with your dogma and prediction. It's exactly like when you picked up the Hal-bop comet and tried to make it your own mystery (space ship). Even after that you they tried predict such events as May 24 2003. Do you remember the white lie? The white lie was only a backup for a wrong prediction. The idea came from the comet NEAT which passed the sun and was discovered in November 2002. (Search more info in google) This was excellent hook'n-up news to feed up their conspiracy as 100% accuracy.

To give and example for that read this:
Let's say I'm guy who want to create a conspiracy around something cosmic, the first I will do is to construct a so called "TRUTH" dogma. This will attract some attention both form curious and sceptical sort of people. But I still I have to feed up my dogma in somehow. And to do that, I have to "predict" things which I hope they hit the goal. But that's very hard though. So what I have to do is to create an illusory "prediction", this is easy done by being in contact with the first-out information source. For example NASA website is a great one. I will keep my eyes very regularly at NASA news.
When a sudden NASA news have been announced about something like an object approach to our solar-system theses will be my excellent feed up story to my visitor. So I will very directly try to write about it in my website as it was my prediction. The topic in my site will be like this: "THE TIME IS HERE – A spaceship will pass our planet in near 2009.  The government will no longer being able to cover it up, so the news will leak very soon anyway."
Shortly after NASA has broadcast its message, the news sites will couth it up and will be well known news for almost everyone.
Let's say that I have 1000 visitor each days. And 10% of them visit me as the first thing they do before anything else, and maybe the only thing they do in internet. Those 10 will have the illusion to see me very credible with 100% accuracy thought the news is taken from NASA after what they revealed and not before (this will not be so obvious for the most) .
So suddenly they have caught 100 visitors' interest and credibility, and the dogma goes on to next "prediction".
Does this remind you of the cosmic dogma my dear readers? The May-2003 false prediction? The Halebop spaceship prediction? The NEAT 2002? The Sedan "cover-up" for planet X? The Maya calendar 2012?

The story keeps on based on the Maya calendar 2012 ...The Maya calendar is true as only a calendar which end year 2012, but again the conspiracy take advantage of everything in this earth to convince you that is the "grand cycle end" of earth.

Thank you for the links Anthony and the hour you send on. I really appreciate it!
But I spend only 1 minute to find all those links as a balance of the cause to the pole shift, which is of course Planet X.

NASA website:
http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question4.html

This will reveal for you the whole BIG conspiracy real.
http://www.skepticalmind.com/zetatalk.html

An excellent site to deep though.
http://www.metatech.org/planet_x_nibiru_earth_changes.html

A look at the Science behind Planet X. Great site!
http://www.planet-x.150m.com/

Very easy to follow site where they analyse the dogma.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Planet-X.htm


Oh. I almost forget ... don't forget to check out this link to: http://www.planetxvideo.com/planetxvideo.htm [:D]




--- To James

Any URL about The Green lady?.

moonbeam

Hi...I'm new to this forum but have read alot about the predictions for the year 2012 as well as the Pleidians.  My beliefs on the subject are that we as human beings need to raise our consiousness or vibration levels to accomodate the earth's changes in the next 17-20 years.  I believe if we do this then we will be more physically capable of handling the earth's changes.  I don't think that the earth will be destroyed but there will be changes for those that want them.  Those that do not will remain as they are today living on earth...dealing with 3rd dimensional life as we see it.

Those who choose to  raise their vibrations shall be more of a free spirit to travel from dimension to dimension at will and have a more harmonious, and beautiful earth to live on.

In order to do this we MUST learn to love one another and all that is.  This comes from the heart and mind.  "You must look within"- means that you must quiet all thoughts that are incoming from the outside and listen to what's inside you, there lies the beauty and the answers to what is true and real in this world.  Trust and belief in your inner self.  No more judgement, or hate...no more letting the ego run your thought center.

It's your choice...to live as we see it today...or to live on a new changed earth where you won't have to do anything but live in peace and harmony.

Peace to all

Soulfire

(The bulk of this letter is NEW material and not just a re-hashing of everything that has already been said.)

Hi,

I don't know what else to tell you Orcher?  It is my understanding that the magnetic pole shift is caused by a shift in the mass of the earth's core.  Gravity from other planets affects this, and as planet X gets closer the gravitational effect from this will slowly increase.  You are asking me to "prove" it is going to rain before it happens, and I have maintained that nothing can be proven before it happens.  All I can point to is the cloudy sky and the barometer that indicates the atmospheric pressure is dropping.  That does not "prove" it will rain, but those things usually happen before it rains and support the likelihood of it raining.  

Another example:  Think of the pole shift where the earth is like a giant catsup bottle.  The earth's core is moving due to gravity fluctuation similar to a bottle of catsup that is held upside down, but the catsup does not all glop out right away.  You are asking me to "prove" all the catsup is going to suddenly glop out before it has happened.  The links I referred to are like seeing the catsup begin to move ever so slightly before the big glop.  You still cannot "prove" the catsup is going to glop out suddenly, but that doesn't "prove" it is not going to happen either.

Again, I never asked you to believe anything I (or the others) have said.  You call all this "my dogma", but I have never even talked about the pole shift to you or anybody else until you asked me in a personal conversation and started this topic.  I have never claimed to be "right".  I even use a signature file that clearly states everything I write is merely a reflection of my own personal beliefs.  How is this "my dogma"?  My only personal claim to date has been that I feel the material is worth considering for people who are interested and maybe it's worth taking an hour or so to become aware of some relatively safe spots close to you, etc.  I have suggested against making major life changes or being afraid, etc.  And again, I didn't talk about any of this stuff until you specifically asked my opinion.

I keep asking you to show something that I have actually written that is harmful: a quote that is not taken out of context, or indeed anything I have said about the pole shift before you asked me my opinion...and of course you cannot do this because I never talked about the pole shift before you asked me.  You apparently cannot even quote anything harmful said on Zetatalk that is not an "unsupported conclusion" drawn by a reader that is taken out of context and which is also in opposition to the remainder of the material published there.  I am not even invloved with Zetatalk!?!?  You keep talking about "proof"...where is YOUR "proof"?

We are each responsible for our own reactions to the world around us.  If the aliens told me about the pole shift, and I went and sold everything, left my family, and moved to a place I thought was safe all alone on a mountain and spent the rest of my life feeling terrified, then that would be MY RESPONSIBILITY and MY CHOICE - not the alien's or anybody else's...especially when the aliens strongly advised against anyone doing anyting like this.

What is there to gain by blaming other people for our own choices?  That is very disempowering, and frankly it seems to me like a very sad way to live.  Yes, you can blame me or anybody else for anything you want I guess, but that does not mean that you are "right".  You seem to have a very low opinion of people: assuming they are unable to make their own decisions?  This belief alone is probably more "harmful" than anything you have accused the channelers or aliens of (in my opinion)...

--Soulfire

James S

Moonbeam,

Welcome to the forums [:)]

That was a lovely post - well worded and with good wisdom.

"Trust and belief in your inner self. No more judgement, or hate...no more letting the ego run your thought center."
- This part I particularly like.

Well said![^]

Kind regards,
James.

moonbeam


kakkarot

actually orcher, i asked you what proof would satisfy you in this specific instance that you are rambling about. instead of this anthony guy going "here's proof" and you going "nope not good enough" and him going "ok, here's some more proof" and you going "nope still not good enough" and him going "ok, here's some more proof" and you going "nope still not good enough" and him going "ok, here's some more proof" and you going "nope still not good enough" ad infinitum until he hits upon something that you'll accept as proof, why don't you specify what kind(s) of thing(s) you'll accept as "proof" so that anthony isn't wasting his time trying to give you proof that you won't ever accept.

you seem to be a very stupid person, orcher. not once did i say anything about believing, let alone blindly believing, anything that mayatnik or anybody has to say about anything and yet you tell me i'm hypnotised by their glamourness? you say you are using english, but i think you need to study it more.

~kakkarot

WhiteLight

Kakkarot, I don't think there is any need to make nasty comments about fellow members.

Anthony and his colleagues haven't offered any proof what so ever thus far. When you make outlandish claims such as they have, proof to substansiate the claims is hardly asking too much.

By the very nature of this site, it should attract open minded spiritual people. It is the least spiritual of all I have seen. It has a odd vibe about it.



Soulfire

Hi,

While Orcher and I do not agree on many things, I have talked with him quite a bit and consider him a friend.  He is certainly not stupid by any stretch of the imagination.  Also, Orcher is right when he sais I have not offered actual "proof".  I never even claimed to offer "proof", but merely some supporting data.

I do not believe it is even possible to "prove" something that has not actually happened yet.  Where he and I differ is that he believes a lack of "proof" proves I am deliberately lying: guilty until proven innocent.

The problem with "proof", even if it were give is this: There are a LOT of people in the world today who simply do not want to think for themselves.  How many people do you know who let the media, government, or other people think FOR them?  Imagine for a moment if the aliens did give undisputable "proof" of their existance at this time: showing up in a space ship over a major city, letting one of the human contactees publicly display undisputable psychic powers, etc.  Two things would happen:

1) Some people would become very VERY afraid.  I think many people would even become violent towards known contactees, including certain elements of the government.  Think of the people fearing alien invasion, armageddon, anti-christ, etc.

2) Many people who do not wish to think for themselves would become "followers" of the aliens or contactees.  Many people would be polarized between either being very afraid or becoming blind "followers" of them.  Neither of these developmentws would be particularly helpful to mankind.

Imagine what the world would be like a few days after such undisputable "proof" was common knowledge.  Imagine what life would be like for you and your family if you were a publicly known contactee after this happened.  The way things are now, we can talk and people are free to just ignore us or make fun of us.  The people who are ready will hear us and think about what we say without becoming "followers".  Some seeds will be planted, so that as things slowly move forward, people will remember what they need to remember when it becomes important for them to remember - even if they just laugh now.

And none of us ever said "believe us or leave us" as some people seem to think.  We have always simply asked people who are interested to listen to what has been said and think about it.  Your higher self will always lead you to whatever you truly need to know when you need to know it.  You do not need the aliens or contactees even if all this is "true".  We are but one channel of information that some people may find helpful.  Many other people will not find us helpful at all, and there is nothing wrong with that...  :)

--Soulfire

kakkarot

thank you soulfire, for explaining a side that too few people seem to understand (but seem quick to attack :/)

whitelight: i was mean to orcher because he made up a thread attacking people and saying they've given him no proof when he hasn't even asked for any. should i give him proof of stuff i've been through, though he's not asked for it? that's one of his logical fallacy which makes him appear very stupid in my eyes.

he whines about them not giving him proof, and my original point was to tell him that he should ask them for something that would constitute proof to him. just because i posted it in a semi-roundabout manner doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to think about it. and the part about him saying i've been mesmorized by people i've not even talked to was just rediculous (and no, he couldn't have known that i've never talked to them before, which makes him even more retarded for just up and assuming i have). i was posting as one who cares about logical discussions and eventhough he didn't know my reason for posting, for him to just up and say i've been beguiled by them is purely imagination.

certain types of people really get under my skin: people who attack others with no logical basis or arguments on their side are one of those types.

~kakkarot


Soulfire

quote:
Originally posted by MJ-12

Seriously though. A website with a private forum might really boost your success at channeling. The problem is making sure to come out once in a while to accept criticism and normative dissonance.


Hi,

I really don't have a problem with this format.  I have no expectations, so I don't mind criticism.  I do pick up some emotional garbage when people get angry or abusive, because I am a little oversensitive, but I know how to quickly let go of it.  When things start going in circles, I feel like everyone's time is more or less wasted, though.  There is no joy for me in posting when this happens.  As long as something NEW is being discussed, I am happy.

To be honest, I strongly prefer discussing general spiritual content rather than so-called "alien" related information.  I don't even think of my guide (or the Zeta) as "aliens" most of the time, and the things we talk about together are almost never topics you would associate with "aliens".  To me, they are just like very insightful, spiritually oriented friends.

As for boosting my success, I guess that depends on how you define success.  I guess I could certainly be more popular surrounding myself with only people who agreed with me, but then what possible good would I really be doing?  I know many people don't think I am doing anything good anyway, but as long as I personally feel good about my own efforts, then I feel successful...  [:)]

--Soulfire

Van-Stolin

Orcher I think I know what you are getting at.  You are saying that the chanallers are being irresponsible becuase they don't provied proof so that people that do belive will know for sure that this is going to happen and that they are not just wasting their time when it turns out to be fake.

Well, the stupid people will jump up, yell and run around in circles becuase they are gullible.  The more objective person will take the information and put it to later use should something like this happen.  The person that went to extream measures, well that was his free choice based on information that he had heard, it is no different then someone hearing a rumor off the street and the person doing the same thing.  It was still there choice.  I think you are taking it a bit far, which has caused all of the channallers here to stop coming to post, some from you (at least I think so) and others that have critisied them to the point that they feel that they no longer have to 'waste' our time.

I hope this is what you were talking about, now for my side of this.


"Proof"  First you need to look at the definition of proof.  Proof is only an objective anwser based on the information present, since there really isn't that much information to back up any of the channalers claims as of yet they can't be proven.  But if they are correct, then for proof all you need to do is look around you.  Haven't you noticed that the weather has been screwed up for some time now.  Not to mention that the fact that like Soulfire says the planets are getting warmer, I think I reamember a news article about that.  Though all this could just be coincedence it sure seems to many things happening like this could.  You say you OBE, well do you do any sort of energy work.  I myself do a little and I am very in touch with nature and the planet gives off a different feel then it did.

I hope that this helps you find what you are looking for.  As they have said, they don't have to provide you proof, you must look for proof within yourself.
Thou shall not kill, remember?  What kind of church man are you? - Vash, Trigun

I will destroy Naraku with this Tessiaga! - Inuyasha, Inu-yasha

Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind. - Edward D. Morrison

Soulfire

Hi,

Well, the weather is really getting beautiful here.  It has been a long winter, and my soul feels very drawn to enjoying the soothing and rejuvenating  wonders of the outdoors.  I will still stop in every week or so to see what is new, but until the weather gets either too hot or too cold to be outside a lot, I plan to be enjoying nature for a while instead of the computer.  I just wanted to let everyone know why I will not be around as much for a while so that any of you who might have been inclined to worry about me will know there is nothing to worry about.  I love you all and will see you soon...  :)

--Soulfire

Orcher

Hi all. I haven't been able to report your comments because I have been on "vacation" (without internet in 4 days).

Nice to see you all again, and great thanks for the posts you have contributed. EXCEPT...The following arrogant member kakkarot, so lets analyze him.

quote:
You seem to be a very stupid person, orcher. not once did i say anything about believing, let alone blindly believing, anything that mayatnik or anybody has to say about anything and yet you tell me i'm hypnotised by their glamourness? you say you are using english, but i think you need to study it more.

kakkarot: Would you have said those words if you were in front of me and looking me in the eyes ?  Would you?
You feel quite secure behind your monitor and in miles from people you post to, don't you?


thank you soulfire, for explaining a side that too few people seem to understand (but seem quick to attack :/)

"side that to few people seems to understand"  WHAT'S THAT ? WHAT IN THE *** is that?
Who elected you to those "few intelligent" people? Does anyone here remember any election I have missed?
That side that too few people seem to understand could very easily said to be the side which is much wrong also. Have you thought of that Your Grace "light head", or you maybe to arrogant to bother your self with that thought?

And we keep on...

"but seem quick to attack :/"  
What is that? Are you trying to play the "modern Open-minded" guy?
Are you trying to play the role of the legend that defended the new "oppress" system in the 2004 or what?
What's that "attack"? How did you made it to an "attack"? kakkarot Do YOU have lack of words in you vocabulary depot or what?  This year is my 3: d year I'm learning English and my English seems to be better then yours? Thought it's very poor. How come?

READ MY POSTS AGAIN! READ IT AGAIN!!  Try to figure out with your "arrogant head" that I'm NOT attacking anything. We are discussing. It's very important to do that. To have another view. To have some balance?



quote:
whitelight: i was mean to orcher because he made up a thread attacking people and saying they've given him no proof when he hasn't even asked for any. should i give him proof of stuff i've been through, though he's not asked for it? that's one of his logical fallacy which makes him appear very stupid in my eyes.


You poor little cutey [:(]. You were mean to me because I made up a thread attacking people?
Why didn't you run to your mother and asked her for a BIG BIG hug and asked her for comfort? [:X]
Wouldn't that feel better then telling me that I'm "stupido"?
[:D] Hehe. You sound very cute for me. How old are you? However sweethearts, try to clean your mouth and behave your self before you wrote to people.

quote:
he whines about them not giving him proof, and my original point was to tell him that he should ask them for something that would constitute proof to him. just because i posted it in a semi-roundabout manner doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to think about it. and the part about him saying i've been mesmorized by people i've not even talked to was just rediculous (and no, he couldn't have known that i've never talked to them before, which makes him even more retarded for just up and assuming i have). i was posting as one who cares about logical discussions and eventhough he didn't know my reason for posting, for him to just up and say i've been beguiled by them is purely imagination.

What are you trying to say here ???? [:D][:D]

quote:
certain types of people really get under my skin: people who attack others with no logical basis or arguments on their side are one of those types.

With that big buffoon arrogant head you have, how does it feet in your room? WHO ARE YOU, AND WHO CARE ABOUT YOU PATHETIC FEELINGS? I really don't give the damn sh*** what going on your weird head and under your skin.
kakkarot You seem to me very gullible poor little guy who try to find his personality and place in this forum. relax!!
5 red stars and 1748 posts? For god sake get out and have some contact with humans eye to eye (except your mother) AND in real life, handle that at first before you try to have contact with other in the internet behind your monitor.

How does it feel now kakkarot ? Does it feel good to be offended? Do you look like him --> [:(!] or him --> [V] .... haha but i much believe that you look like him now --> [xx(]

[:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]


Lets be more serious.
To all those who already rose up the "moral police" aspect and are very ready to replay to this post concerning my words to kakkarot. Read this.
The reason I wrote this posts to kakkarot is to show him how unnecessary it is to use such offending words like "very stupid" and all other nasty words. I don't know how old he his, and if he really did get the right education of good behaviour both from school or/and parents which is very important in my opinion, it still important to mark it up. And for this moment  I gave him the same feeling he tried to broadcast. And I hope he have learned anything by this.


A more mature explanation why kakkarot shouldn't use the word "stupid" its because THERE IS NO "STUPID" people in the world! There is ONLY propel with much or less life experience, right/wrong brings up, right/wrong education, much or less trustworthiness in human treatments and MUCH more we really don't know much about yet, life is very complex.
Me and Anthony have exchange over 10 posts with each other and never used any offending words to each other. Thought we have totally difference opinion.

-------------

To Anthony. Do you mind to resume the conversation again?




Again excuse my poor English.




James S

Orcher, is there a point to all of this?

Orcher

quote:
Originally posted by James S

Orcher, is there a point to all of this?

Yes there is!

Read the second bold part of my post (again) please.
ie from: To all those who already rose up the "moral police" aspect....

AND if you still dont get the point, i will write another post to explain further how important it is to make clear for those arrogant persons who try to offend other in anyway, what they do is very unwanted behaviour. And In my opinion, the best way to do that is to give them an mutual feeling of thir behaviour.


James S

An "eye for an eye" hmm?

Would it not be more beneficial for everyone involved to maybe NOT  keep the hostilities going?

Besides, my question was not about your dissagreement with Kakkarot, but the theme behind this topic in general.

Is there a point to questioning all of this?

It has been done before ad-nauseum, and all we end up with, despite the initially good intentions, is circular arguments, factions and hostilities.

There's been enough of that on this site already. I would suggest that in the interests of keeping peace on this site, this line of argument perhaps gets dropped.

James.

kakkarot

yes, orcher, i would say those words to you if i were looking you in the eyes. i've done it to others.

and the reason why? because i really do see them as stupid. and yes, there ARE stupid people in this world. to believe otherwise is to believe that we live in a fantasy world where you believe that certain "bad things" don't exist simply because you can't handle the fact that they do (ever heard of IQ's and the bell curve?)

i'm not being nice to you. i don't care to be nice to you. and i've already explained why. it's not because i don't know how to be nice, it's because i've made a conscious decision to be a jerk (and yes, jerks exist too).

~kakkarot


wendi

sTupidity should be painful, love peoples.




O My God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee.  And I destest all my sins because of thy just punishement, but most of all for having offended thee my Lord, who art all Good and deserving of all my love.  I firmly resolve, with the help of thy grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin.  Amen.

Orcher

AND THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOWN  - You'll see !
No. I haven't seen any truth yet!.

Hi everyone!

I'm very sure that many of us who have been active in the Prophecy, Divination & Communications section do also recognize words like Zeta, Pleiadian, Plant X approach, fotonband, and the Poleshift which will bring the mass destruction of almost 2/3 of earth population around 2012. And of course we still remember the channelers with name MAYATNIK, Edi, Fuzziwig, Anthony.

I have been following their post in this forum since the fist Pendulum post. I have been practicing with it over and over again without any success.

My conclusion about the pendulum is following:
The only thing I have learnt from about the pendulum, it is that is a great trick. Yes a trick and nothing more. It works in a way that it gives you what you already know, or what you want to it to give you.
For example: If you know that it is sunny outside, and you ask the pendulum if it is sunny outside. You will subconsciously move it in a way you have decide the movement as a yes.

There is anther way to check if you are fooled by your self or not.  Try this:
Hold your pendulum in the way you do. And try to imagination movement of the pendulum in any way you want it. YES, NO or Circling clockwise or anticlockwise.  You will notice that it will do whatever you want it to do. AND NO! There is no spirituality with it. You are doing it by your self with your will (with very small impulse from your brain).

So back to the Pleiadian/Zeta channeler.
How do we know if they are telling us the truth? How do we know if they are not bluffing the whole channelling? How do we know if the whole is not more than a big planed conspiracy?
Well...I have been long waiting for them to give us some concrete information or any proof, but unfortunately without any success.

So one day (2004-04-06) I was in MSN chat with Anhtony, which is one of those who channel a Pleiadian guide. (Before that day I was in chat with Anhtony and Edi talking about the pendulum and Guides.)  

As usual, I didn't get any concrete information from them this time either; but there was something else which I do like to share with me. And that is a conversation between me and Anthony about their credibility.

You can skip the conversation if you dont have time to read all that, and jump directly to other posts.
I didn't change anything. As you see you have to excuse my poor English cause I'm not an English spoken guy.


Orcher - maroon colour is me!
Green colour is Anthony the Pleiadian channeler.

There we go...
_________________________________________________________________


.
.
.
Orcher säger:
And i have not been totaly honest with you.. To be more honest .. i have to say ..its not a lak of patience.. its more a lak of faith of what you are talking about.
Anthony säger:
That is fine too.  You should never have faith in what another person sais...just do what is right for you.  
Anthony säger:
To the extent that you know you are doing that, then you are doing the right thing for you at this time.
Orcher säger:
Yes. For so far. i have made my mind. and my conclution (from my own view) is that you all are playing a game with us. OBSERVE. ( this is my opinoin)
Anthony säger:
Ok.  Well then I would understand if you no longer wish to talk with me, because if that was true I don't think I would want to talk with me, but I hope maybe we can still be friends.  I am sorry you feel that way about me, but I can't over-ride your opinion and feelings.  
Orcher säger:
Its just that.. when you get fantacy story without proof. 3
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.
Orcher säger:
I hope .. I really HOPE that you dont play this game with peopel ( IF you are playing it)..... But my hope wont make any diffrent... becouse you  are already playing it... but you could at least stop with it you want to.
Orcher säger:
When i talk to you and Edi and Mayatnik.. .. you see.
Orcher säger:
I can never imagine that you can be those kind of guys who play such a game with peopel..
Anthony säger:
*nod*
Orcher säger:
But this wont tell me that you ARE not playing it.
Anthony säger:
I am curious, what exactly made you finally decide we were not being honest?
Orcher säger:
Peopel are very good in mimic the "good peopel"
Orcher säger:
Its hard to sum all data.. but lets try bit by bit
Anthony säger:
*nod*
Orcher säger:
btw ...whats *nod*
Anthony säger:
Nodding my head...trying to show that I am listening even when I do not have anyting to add to the conversation yet.
Orcher säger:
OK
Orcher säger:
so...
Orcher säger:
To sum all your posts.. Edi.. Maytanik...Fuzziwig.. And even the whole Zeta Talk website.... NOT a single word..
Orcher säger:
have been the kind of [concrete] information...with other word.. Its like written fantacy book.
Orcher säger:
What you say.. can even i say that..
Anthony säger:
It's ok, go on.  
Orcher säger:
Its just beautiful words.... you give peopel what they want to hear..
Anthony säger:
Dont worry about offending me please, I know you are only honestly expressing how you feel and please dont worry about english...if I fail to udnerstand something I will ask you for clarification.
Orcher säger:
You play the rool of knowing much ...by the huge massive information. in a stylish EXCELLENT formulated english....
Orcher säger:
No i dont worry about that.. couse you know already that iam very objective
Orcher säger:
So..Anthony... Of that you and Mayatnik and all channeling.. what does it differ from a very good written fantacy book ?
Anthony säger:
Well, I will focus primarily on the material I personally have "channeled" for now, is that ok?
Orcher säger:
Well....
Orcher säger:
Lets try to explain it in this way....
Anthony säger:
ok
Orcher säger:
You see. when jesus came to earth... He talked much in the beginning ....
Orcher säger:
Some loved what he said...and some hated it.. NOT becouse he talked in offensive way to someone.. Its just that HE TALKED MUCH...
Anthony säger:
ok
Orcher säger:
But that stage is the worst one..... becouse.. In stage is limied of time.... either he show up some miracles.. or he have to go down. And he knew that there is much peopek waiting for confirmation. or else he will go down.
Orcher säger:
Its like playing poker.. ( you cant bluff for ever).
Orcher säger:

Orcher säger:
If you understand me.. i explain very clumsy ..
Orcher säger:
due to my poor english language
Anthony säger:
Well I am obviously not Jesus, and I certainly never claimed that I was going to perform miracles.  I hope I never accidentally gave that impression?
Orcher säger:
No. neither did i claim you that you or other channeler where..
Orcher säger:
But yours messages have same weight like his.. and if not bigger. You claim to have contact with Guids.. who should know much like WHAT THE COLOR OF MY SHIRT is now..  
Orcher säger:
You see.. many times when you talked about my guids.. I get differents information from you.
Anthony säger:
Ok...I see what you are saying, but in a way that is like saying you expect us to be omniscient...and we are not.  We are only given insight into things that are used to help other people in constructive ways.  People have to decide for THEMSELVES what to belieive...
Anthony säger:
If I could just go around and throw around "concrete proof" that I am right about everytihng, nobody else would ever need to think for themselves...they would just blindly truth me?
Anthony säger:
trust
Anthony säger:
I would in a sense almost be "forcing" other people to believe as I believe, and that would not only fail to be constrictive, but it would be wrong for me or the guides to do that?
Orcher säger:
Do it once. for us all. and you wont be bothered towice
Orcher säger:
If you have the right information. and the truth .. Then there is no wrong to belive you either. And jesus did the same.
Orcher säger:
I do not say that you jesus. But who said that jesus is the only one who can bring faith.
Anthony säger:
I disagree.  The point of life is to live and make our own decisions, not to just make the right decision by the easiest way possible (such as having someone else make decisions for you).
Orcher säger:
You are not forcing.. They still have their choise. (you call it FreeWill).. This will only strenger our INTEREST in your messages. TO help us better.
Anthony säger:
Even IF I had ALL the RIGHT answers, and gave them to everybody so they could make the "right" decisions, the very point and reason for their living would be lost.
Orcher säger:
You will never be able to give the right answer to ALL.. neither did jesus in his time.
Orcher säger:
He gived to some of them. And in that way he made his words more interested. did´nt he`?
Orcher säger:
He gave...
Anthony säger:
If I could give everybody "indisputable proof" that I am "right" any tiome I wanted, most sane people would stop to think for themselves when they began to trust me enough...and this would help no-one in my opinion.
Orcher säger:
You wont be able to answer them the whole life either. So dont worry about that part. They will only use your words in their day/night life. and keep them in mind.
Orcher säger:
You already give them advice and help.
Orcher säger:
They need something which make them belive, THAT you are not playing with them.
Anthony säger:
Yes...but I also give them no reason to blindly trust me and encourage them to use their own intuition and think about what I say and decide for themselves.
Anthony säger:
But MAKING anybody do anyting is wrong...that is what I am trying to say.
Orcher säger:
I still dont understand how that will harm peopel.. suppose now that you told me the color of my shirt. You told me the right answer. Then i will have a more opened mind to read about you. What the Zeta say. what the pleidians say. And read the whole Zetatalk thought its almost unlimeted lol-....well. This will also encourge me to HEAR/lidsen at what you say. OBSERV i do not mean BELIVE. thats dif
Orcher säger:
ANd beside.. I will be more enourge to spend more time to use the pendulum. and trying to have contact with my guid.
Orcher säger:
You see. the pendulum Didn´t work once.. NOT EVEN once.. its 50%/50% ....
Anthony säger:
Ok, say I did this...over and over and over again, until you DID trust me very much...then I started telling you that the ******* are the one's who are destroying the earth, and we need to kill them all...in subtle clever ways...MANY people would believe me because of the credibility I had established.
Anthony säger:
THis is EXACTLY the way a person with evil intentions would go about trying to control people.
Orcher säger:
Why would you do that? .. i know there is those who much can belive what you say .. whatever you say.
Orcher säger:
But what does it stopp the evil to do the same. IF they can do the same already.. Did you understand me?
Anthony säger:
You cannot stop evil by forcing other poeple to stop being evil.  You can only teach people to look into themselves where they always know what is right and wrong and show them that the will be heappier loving others than in trying to take for themselves what they think they want.
Orcher säger:
Well. then answer me this.. Can evil peopel Guess the color of my shirt right now .. in right way ?
Anthony säger:
I will not say that it is impossible that there are some who can.  
Orcher säger:
ok.. with other words.. There is those who can ?
Orcher säger:
Then Why are they not doing that already ?
Anthony säger:
All I am saying is that everyting I have done, and the other people I work with, is to try and get people to become aware of things and get in touch with themselves and think for themselves.
Orcher säger:
What make your "things" be more true then what a fantacy writer do?
Anthony säger:
Everyting that happens through the pendulum, and through telepathy happens through your higher self.  And what we try to teach is how people can get in touch with that higher self.
Orcher säger:
I dont know what you mean by heigher self. couse this does´t exist for me .. So please show me and proof me my heigher self .
Anthony säger:
Well, for myself...as I have travelled this path, I have come across many personal proofs that this is more than just imagination or deception, but it is a personal matter and only applies to me.  My truth is not your truth, nor should it be.
Orcher säger:
Then why do you go out with your truth to poepel around you ?
Anthony säger:
Because I desire to help people...note that this is different from trying to foce people to believe what I believe.
Anthony säger:
All I am trying to do is share what I have found with others, but not to make them see it.
Orcher säger:
Does help contain a Zeta/pleidians/ poleshift/pendulum/ heigherself/ Guids ?
Orcher säger:
What does Planet X to do with "help peopel"
Orcher säger:
?
Anthony säger:
Well, if you read any of my material, you will notice that I talk VERY little about any of that.  I think the awareness of some of the coming events is important to some people, but it is not what I choose to focus on.
Orcher säger:
You still have them included. And this is still my quiestion. How would Zeta, pleidians and Planet X wich bring catastrophic events to do with helping peopel ?
Anthony säger:
They are not bringing catastrophic events.  The catastrophic events would hapeen whether they were here or not.  They are just trying to help us make the most of it.
Orcher säger:
Its very clair that you bring catastrophic news at least .. And the poleshift and the coming Planet X wont make it better. So I still dont understand how this will help peopel.
Anthony säger:
Ok, how would it help people more if nobody told anybody about this or offered suggstions for making hte most of it when it is going to happen anyway?
Orcher säger:
If you already say that it will happen anyway. Why do you want them to worry about it already now. And you caling that help?
Anthony säger:
We do not encourage "worry" - in fact wuite the opposite.  You will never see any of us that I am aware of focusing on doom and gloom, but rather how to make the most of it.
Anthony säger:
Other peole sometimes read about his and proclaim the end of the world, but we have always said the opposite.  that the world will go on and be in fact a better place after the turmoil.
Orcher säger:
When you claim that Planet X are commin soon. and it will bring with it the poleshift to creat a mass destruction.. with mortality of about 2/3 of human peopel.. What do you think peopel will think about you message?. How do you think they will react ? have you thought about it ?
Orcher säger:
And you still offer safe places in Zetatalk.com . How come =?
Anthony säger:
Well again, to be honest, I have never pesonally rsaid any of this....it is not what I prefer to focus on or how I prefer to try and help people.  I do see along with all thtat however, advice about how to suriveve, where will be safe, encouragement for people to work together in love instead of taking what "I want", suggesting for how society can better teach our children, etc.
Anthony säger:
brb
Orcher säger:
You still a part of the message Anthony. And by only mentioning it once or twoice. foucsing on it less or more. This wont change the situation.
Anthony säger:
Well, all I can say is that I am sincerely doing the best I can to contribute somethign of value to my fellow man.  Maybe I'm all wrong, but I am doing my best and feel good about it in my heart.  That is all I can ask of myself.  
Anthony säger:
If I am all wrong, I will find out the hard way and be the first person to tell you you were right.
Anthony säger:
Until then, all I know to do is what feels right to me in my heart.
Orcher säger:
Why do you thing that your best is our best. Are you aware of what you are doing right now ?. By broadcasting a message of a Zeta / pleidians / Planet X approach and poleshift , mass destruction, death. What make you thing this is the best for us ?
Anthony säger:
Well, I could turn that around and ask what makes you feel what you think is right for you is right for me?    We are each different, and we each need to follow our own hearts and do the best we know how with what we have been given.  
Orcher säger:
And if you really want help us. Why dont you give us the proof of all you say. I'm very sure that more then me and the other poor guys will lidsen at you. I personly will spred the message to "help" them if you show me your proof.
Orcher säger:
We are all each different. But this does´t give us the right to spred message like those you are doing right now.
Anthony säger:
Well...I don't know what to say.  I am sorry you feel this way, but it is your right to feel what you feel.  I guess we are just different in this.
Orcher säger:
The heart have nothing to do with what you are telling us right now.
Orcher säger:
Yes much different. But what give you the right to spead a mass destruction with Planet X approach?
Anthony säger:
See, now you are judging me and telling me what I am feeling when in fact I feel I know my own heart better than you.  You can think this about me, but honestly...if you can know my heart better than me then you are more psychic than you give yourself credit for.  
Orcher säger:
What does this to do with my heart or your heart Anthony ? . Iam not talking about any organic part of my or your body. We are talking of conspiracy you have spred over the net.
Orcher säger:
Planet X approch.
Orcher säger:
Poleshifet
Orcher säger:
Zeta.
Anthony säger:
The only way I can see where I would be wrong in telling people about the pole shift and trying to help them adapt is if it in fact never happens.  If it DOES happen, then I feel whatever I can do to help is valuable.
Anthony säger:
If it does NOT happen, then I will have been wrong.
Anthony säger:
And then I would agree that I would share any blame for people's fear and confusion.
Orcher säger:
No. You have not only beeing wrong. You have also made a very awefull crime.
Orcher säger:
And if you are so Sure this will happen.. Why dont you proof it ?
Anthony säger:
This is turning into a circular argument.  I try to say what I feel, and you tell me to prove it.  I don't know what else to say?  ALl I can do is do my best and what I feel is right and be responsible for the consequences whether I am right or wrong?
Anthony säger:
I simply cannot do any more than that?
Orcher säger:
You are already responsible of  what already have been done.
Orcher säger:
But the issue is if you understand what you are doing.
Anthony säger:
Fair enough.  But you don't yet know for sure if that responsibility id bad, or whether it might actually have been helpful yet.
Orcher säger:
Yes i do. I have no proof. and you neithe you do. The differents is .that you are so SURE.
Orcher säger:
And you are speding it over the net without any proof. by only claiming that you FEEL it right.
Anthony säger:
*sigh*  I am sorry, I just don't know what to say.  I understand how you feel but I do not agree with you.  I just do not know what else I can say?
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.
Orcher säger:
I would like to share our message if it does´t both you ? more will be envolved through that.
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.
Anthony säger:
It is what it is, if you think it will help someone then do what you wish.  I will save a copy of the transcrip I guess.  Good night.  
Orcher säger:
Great,.
.
.
If you dont mind, send me a link to what you do with it?



__________________________________________________________________







So what do you guys believe of this?.

For me.. Show Your cards and give us [Proof], [Truth].. call it what every you want, or your conspiracy is GAMEOVER for my part at least.