And the truth shall be known - You'll see !

[MAYATNIK]

Regarding a post from WALTER9911
on page 5) –

Walter writes there:
<< " Hello MAYATNIK.
.......I began using a pendulum last night, but I have encountered a problem. It seems the pendulum answers my questions too quickly, often it will answer me before i've finished asking the question, often it will answer at the exact instant that i've thought of a question to ask without giving me a chance to begin to ask at all. Is this normal? " >>

Although the above question was adequately answered in a channeled response by SeekingAnswers (SAMUEL) at the time specifically addressed to Walter, I feel that some further channeled comment from myself is appropriate at this time, in view of a comment made by Bad Moon Rising and at least one other member regarding the proximity of TV etc when using the Pendulum.

First of all, my congratulations to Walter for him being able to achieve such rapid responses (even barely having created the thought to ask a question of the Pendulum) especially considering it being his first day at trying it out.  To save members having to refer back to the original response by SAMUEL, and to add a little further for members in general here, it is a sign that the person is extremely receptive, which is an excellent start.

A difficulty, however, can arise that may confuse answers given in the case where a TV or Radio etc is on in the room while the Pendulum is being used.  This difficulty is not to do with electromagnetic interference which can occur if the Pendulum is within, say, 10 inches of such or a speaker or other electromagnetic truansducer.  That is not of which I speak here.  Rather, it is the fact that the person's mind may be distracted by what is being said on the TV or Radio at the time and, while holding the Pendulum, it will – since their attention is attracted to the voice – give an answer according to whether the words said are true or not.  So, it is important to keep focussed on what you are thinking about to ask as questions, because the Pendulum not only listens to the question, but responds to your overall 'thinking' at that time.  This, by the way, is one of the reasons why the Pendulum may not work at a particular time – because it knows your 'attitude' and what is also at the back of your mind, including all about you in any case..... so, you can't fool the Pendulum. – and it will give you what you need, not necessarily what you think you want.  But, if your mind is distracted by the TV etc, then the Pendulum will respond accordingly, since that is a further application of the Pendulum's use.

You can actually use the Pendulum with TV or Radio (or the replay of a cassette recording, which is ideal because you can wind back to hear a part again) to ask specific questions of what is being said, to verify these and explore with further questions (you should always try to ask more than one, wherever possible to get a clearer picture).  I would suggest that you try out this technique at first using a cassette recorder.  If you should receive a different answer upon later replay of a certain passage, then that will reflect a change in your perspective in the light of new understanding from what you have been listening to or question posed as a result; otherwise the answer will be the same.

This application is ideal for those who are having difficulty at first thinking of questions to ask, since the information being presented in the form of statements is ideal material to examine – and should be easy to think of further questions to pose, since many of the things presented in the media are in our mind's – or pushed into our minds – anyway.  Some members may think that such issue are of the 'mundane' and not spiritual.  This is definitely not the case, because everything that concerns man's humanity (or often in-humanity) are things to address spiritually if we are to become more evolved and a loving species, rather than remain prey to deception, inadvertent or otherwise

The 'audio' method, for the beginner then, is to just sit comfortably and listen to the voice while watching the Pendulum closely or at least out of the corner of your eye (as you become more proficient) if you are watching a TV documentary or News program or (initially better, since many speakers are very rapid) a video recording of it.  Regard the Pendulum, in this application, as you would a wise friend sitting next to you, in your sight, and you are in effect watching the assent or dissent (nod or shake of the head, so to speak) as the 'wise friend' listens along with you.  Much can be gleaned from this to verify Truth in statements.  Political News, and especially 'sound bites' do tend, however, to produce many NO responses when 'spin' is being put on by a spokesman.  I have (when I used to use the Pendulum, before becoming fully telepathic for channeling and contact with many other guides at will) got considerably wide energetic NO swings to 'analysing' such remarks heard in this way, and since my swing is about 12 inches across for an energetic emphatic, compared to the average 5 to 6 inch swing I get for a 'normal' YES/NO then you may gather that the guides follow politics very closely indeed and know quite a lot that we are not given to know by these so-called 'elected leaders'.

So, just keep watching how the Pendulum swings in response to not only questions - but statements heard (if your attention is on that) or your thoughts.  And you will find, as you proceed, that it is very responsive indeed in all situations!

Just a few points there that my guide wanted me to add here to further help members in understanding the Pendulum better and so be able to use it more efficiently.

Channeled With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.

[13]

Mayatnik - thanks for the correction of my technique. I had not honestly read your original post in detail - merely skimmed it - and attempted the method using my own intuition and guidance on how to develop the signals. I use forward-backward as yes and side-to-side as no. Based on what I know, I respectfully disagree with the assertion that there is One Right Way in terms of technique. I say this while also acknowledging that I don't claim a Divine source of knowledge telling me that there is one right way - I only have logic and experience. However, I have found, with several forms of divination, that it is between the recipient and the transmitter to develop a Vocabulary of signals. This "vocabulary" gives interpretation and meaning to the actions of the oracle. Using a predefined vocabulary is fine, but there must be good reason for saying one is better than another, other than just one is the 'established' form. This is akin to saying to me that old Latin is a better language than modern English...if the meaning can be conveyed with either language, then one is not necessarily better than the other. One language can only be better if it conveys more meaning, more accuracy, or has a broader vocabulary. Even with ouija, there are many possible signs available - I have even drawn smiley faces, love hearts, etc with excellent success - in fact sometimes the being communicating will draw pictures (ie, love hearts) over the board, without any prompting on my part. In other words, the vocabulary is always personal and mutually developed and agreed, not dogmatically asserted, in my humble opinion. In terms of the pendulum, there are 5 available signals that I can see - forward-backward, side-to-side, circle clockwise, circle counter-clockwise, and being still. Attributing meaning to each of these seems fairly arbitrary to me.

I do like your blessing and initation ceremony, which I did not perform initially and will do with my pendulum now. I did use prayer and energetic transfer which is my equivalent though.

As to the source of the divination, I am not entirely convinced to be honest. My experiences with other forms is that entities of various states of enlightenment may participate. The key thing I have found is desire, and thought force. The desire for it to be a link with one's Higher Self and using various invocations and rituals to only limit the Higher Self to participate make it so. Simply opening oneself to any Intelligence, or just asking blandly for answers does not sufficiently filter the respondents. I have found that prayer can also be quite powerful. I have personally spoken with entities ranging from pathetic astral wildlife pretending to be Archangels, through to very evolved and higher beings, whether these were 'Higher Self' or not is intellectual - the knowledge from higher entities is almost always valuable in it's own right. In terms of my pendulum use, I am still undecided. It has told me it is my Higher Self, but self-assertion is no assertion....even the Bible has verses that say it is the word of God, but saying so does not make it so. I will say, that the pendulum has been very reluctant for me to test it as I normally would with any other source of knowledge. This does not sit well with me, but I will play along on the chance that it is my Higher Self asking for a little faith. Time will always reveal what we are talking to...

These are simply my opinions. I am not dogmatic about them and would change my mind if proven wrong, friend.

[MAYATNIK]

Hello *13*

Thank you for your comments.  I have not suggested that there is One Right Way of using the Pendulum – and in fact I have explained in various posts I have made in this thread that there variations possible (there is 'default' mode, which is the one that Dowsers understand and which has become 'established' though does not have the versatility of this 'advanced' mode, in addition, the 'default' (Dowsing) mode is a COMPLETELY different system, not only in standard operation but also in Divination 'methods') in addition to which, the Pendulum is fully programmable by the user in many ways.  Since you say you only skimmed through my initial post, it could be that you have missed quite a few points in other posts.  All is relevant and ongoing, since I have tried not to present 'everything' in one go; even of what I have presented overall, is only a start of all that will be presented and some of those things must wait until members become more acclimatized and skilled in their use, otherwise it can lead to confusion and that is very important to be avoided.

What is presented here – and was given to me by my guide (of which I am at the moment only giving in parts, as my guide decides) is for a group of people, namely the members, to explore and learn from.  As with a language, it is not good if people 'make up' their own definitions or words as they go along, or 'import' others that may have a completely different connotation and would cloud the overall understanding of others as they try to relate to it.  So, follow your own course, or follow this one; the choice is yours.  But, you will not be able to advance (my guide says) to later stages – as indeed Dowsers,  for example, have not advanced to even this stage – and the desired objective of the guides is to not only have complete and consistent reliability of method, but to also allow for techniques that will be shown later (hence the importance of not 're-assigning' movements at this stage) – but to also move on, naturally, to telepathic ability, which will then make the Pendulum secondary to much clearer 'input' of answers to the recipient.  The crucial thing about this Pendulum course, is allowing the guides to teach in their own way – having given specific movements, and their 'meanings' in order to avoid any possible confusion, something that has held Pendulum users back in the past, as I've said.  I was 'taught' this method (which is in NO books on earth) by my guide 8 yers ago, along with the kantra and what that means also plus the fact that the Kantra was used thousands of years ago when the true ('advanced') mode of operation was known and used.  Only recently has she permitted me to pass this on (although I have asked often, when would it be that people could be told how to use the Pendulum in this 'advanced' way).  I don't use the Pendulum myself now, since there is no need as I have advanced beyond it to Direct Telepathy; but I teach it exactly as taught to me, which was very carefully. I have not studied ANY other methods at all, but I do know that the guides interact with individuals in many ways, as you describe (such as drawing shapes when using the ouja board – but then, people who do guided (or automatic) writing do the same without such things.  Thus, the guides teach in many ways.  And they have decided now that it is time for this 'advanced' method to be once again known, after having been lost, and to be shown for all, as channeled by my guide to me, and presented throgh myself to members here.  This fact can be easily verified by asking the Pendulum.

What is being given in this thread, in the Teachings about the Pendulum is not some new 'method' but the method that will carry ALL forward who use it, and are taught by the guides while using it in the process.  What you may have learned from various sources (which you say are not 'Divine', so therefore book derived), leads you to state that there are only 5 movements possible with the Pendulum.  This is not correct.  You give the movements you know, which I repeat here (along with their additional or full meanings, for your information).

(1) LEF-RIGHT *yes* / *no* (reprogrammable, but default initially, depending on the genetics of the person)

(2) IN-OUT *no* / *yes*(as for (1) above - but the reverse response)

(3) CLOCKWISE-CIRCLING - <SEARCH> mode

(4) ANTI-CLOCKWISE-CIRCLING – something I have not mentioned up to now, but which actually means <DELETE> from the records (in multi-functional operations like searches and accesses according to status, and various other things..... a signal that the 'advanced' user will need to know.
Both (3)and/or (4) are taught by some to mean *yes* or  *no* and this shows the level of confusion and limiting when these movements are thus programmed by a user who doesn't understand!

(5) STOP (or NOT-PERMITTED ... and also the disconnected state, as well as on command "stop", issued by the user to cancel a movement).

But, there are 2 FURTHER 'basic' other movements that are easy to see and use, although I have not introduced them yet.  And these are:
(6) 45 deg. LEFT (midway between LEFT and OUT)
(7) 45 deg. RIGHT (midway between RIGHT and OUT)
Both these movement are not assigned unless programmed by the user. So, either of those could have been used for your <MAYBE> signal.  But, as I said, the logic of assigning a 'maybe' is faulty, since you are asking the Pendulum to STOP SEARCHING and tell you <MAYBE>.  If you were to allow the Pendulum to continue searching it would find the answer and give it to you, or tell you it was'indeterminate' (maybe you would call this 'maybe', but in any event it cannot reach that point until it has fully searched, something which you clearly prevented it from doing!) and indeterminate means 'insufficient data to ascertain with certainty' – certainly not 'maybe'.  Any method must, at least, be sensible.

Whether you wish to believe that guides move the Pendulum, or even that lower life-form entities do, I will tell you this..... that they do NOT; The Pendulum is moved by modulation of the electromagnetic field, and the source of the input comes from a 'computer' in the Higher Realms, as I have explained in various posts above (and also why), so the guides may, if they choose, work through that computer at any time (as a broadcaster will work through a studio console, or one can access that 'computer' in the Higher Realms direct (which is analogous to accessing the Internet for automatic 'data' - but of course in the case of the Pendulum, of such advanced evolution that this 'computer' can not be comprehended by man's very limited notions).  Dowsers, incidentally, work only through the computer (which is why my guide teaches that theirs is 'default' mode), although Dowsers do not realise it is in fact a 'computer' (actually a 'living computer') that they are utilizing.

For the Pendulum to work at its most efficient, there must be a grasp of the proper commands and movements that the 'computer' understands and is itself programmed to implement.  Otherwise, as the old computer adage says: Garbage in, Garbage out.  And the Pendulum can, in no way, be compared to an ouja board (for reasons already explained in my posts).

Insufficient information is like insufficient knowledge – if you don't know then any answers will be at best confusing, if not misleading.  I am anxious that members are not led into confusion, hence the clarity of explaanation given, and given in stages to easily absorb.  It is essential thherefore, to read ALL the instructions and follow them for consistent results.  Otherwise all we shall have is chaos, instead of the members being able to learn from their Pendulums what the guides wish to teach THEM.  That is why the method given is consistent, because the answers will be individual to each person – not the method individual to each person.

As to the 'Source' of Divination – that has been discussed in the thread, regarding whether 'tis Higher Self, flitered through Higher Self or whatever the guide may be (whether stated as Pleiadian or some other High Being).  We are certainly not talking about lower 'entities' in the Teaching that is given THROUGH the Pendulum – but all is to the person's own perception, not the reality of the situation, and that perception wil grow with the 'open' and diligent user if they accept that they are a pupil of a Higher Consciousness that will be revealed to each person in the way they can understand.  I learned the Pendulum, and in its use was taught and given the ability of Telepathy to communicate direct and instantly with the guides.  That is a natural progression of this 'advanced' method, when and only when the person is ready and has learned the various 'lessons' the guides teach through the Pendulum.  These are not my words, in this post, but those of my guide, KAREK, so that these facts may be made clear, and thus avoid the possibility arising of any misconception and confusion.  So, you will see from this – though you should read the thread fully for a clear understanding in addition – that this is not a 'rigid' method, or any 'established' one; it is for a very good reason, and purpose that is ongoing and yet to be revealed fully.  It is no 'man-made' method, and is fully flexible in its use once a person is adept with its functions, along with knowing what can be programmed, and in what way (there are other versatile techniques that I have not yet explained to members, so as to keep things clear for now) - and I hope this is now clear to you.

I would stress again, that this post is only a summary - in reply to your post above - A FULL READING OF THE THREAD IS THE ONLY WAY TO GRASP ALL THE POINTS BEING PRESENTED AND EXPLORED HERE.  If something is not understood I am happy to explain at any time, and members in any case share their experiences in this thread.  But, it must be assumed that a person has at least read through the thread, and certainly not contradicting the validity of this course, or its methods, if participating, otherwise only confusion ensues.

KAREK has this personal message she asks me to give to you, 13:
"You will be given a Sign.  In that sign there will be something for you to learn.  Do as you Will, for this is a Free Will world.  But, if you follow the promptings given to you from the Source of All by being 'open' to it, then you will move forward as never before. To do this you must know, that all things are allowed, but not all things are direct form the Source of All.  Expect a Sign that will show you this".

Channeled With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK

[13]

Thanks Mayatnik. I understand what you're saying and will take the instructions you provide at face value and see how my own work with the pendulum develops. My goal was not to cast doubt on the truth of your methods - I just have a regular habit of open questioning. I find that, especially in areas of higher knowledge, any time questions are discouraged the knowledge is suspect and does not stand on it's own merits, relying on 'authority'. But I recognise the need to adhere to a system to get the proper benefits, so will continue with the instructions as you have given them above. I am always interested in learning more, friend, and will let you know if I receive a Sign as mentioned by your guide.

[Edi]

It's time to post some experiences I had since I started to use the pendulum.

Mayatnik wrote in an earlier post:


'when a person gets a "rapport" with the Pendulum, then they will - if they're receptive, and don't block - start "hearing"'


And after reading SeekingAnsers' words about the importance of getting to know your guide, I was eager to learn about the being which was communicating to me through the pendulum. I got strong and clear answers, and at this time it wasn't interesting for me to check books or texts for true or false statements, or to ask about a specific topic. I think this is only necessary to get used to the pendulum or if you want to learn facts - but I felt it was more important to learn about my guide. And to get more communication than just "no" and "yes". So I suggested to my guide playing a guessing game: my guide tells me a letter and I try to guess it. And you know what? When I said "give me a letter, please" it was already in my head, I heard it while I was thinking the question. After a few tries it was boring because it was so easy, so we switched to words... got them right almost every time, even in English (my mothertongue is German). Soon I heard whole sentences in my head.. it was not really "hearing", but there was something. Something different from my own thoughts. I still mix it up sometimes, but you can actually hear what your guide wants to tell you if you just open your brain, quiet your mind a bit and listen... I believe this voice in my head (and in everyone's head) was there the whole life, but normally you don't pay attention to it, maybe only subconsciously. It's time that we all get conscious.

It still needs some effort to have a dialog with my guide... short sentences work good, and the communiction improves rapidly. I have to keep my head clear and free from distractions to be sure about what I receive. When I check what I hear with my pendulum my guide says "why, you already know it"... I just have to trust myself.

Although most people will not at all be used to talking to the voice in their head - trust in it, believe that it is only a matter of time until you see clearly what is happening. If unsure, back up with your pendulum, but this shouldn't be necessary for a long time. In the worst case, you're talking to yourself, in the best case, you're talking to your guide which is always there to help you learn and grow and experience.

I would like to give a remark on the content of the messages you can recieve... to me it seems (and I also read about it, and I got it confirmed from my guide) that you can not recieve information about something you know absolutely nothing about. I think it has something to do with resonance, and with the way the words come to your head. It'd like to go into more detail here and try to explain my understanding of how it works.
The week before I discovered the pendulum, I found a new thing to do during my meditation: analyzing the thought process. I wanted to know where my thoughts come from and how I build the sentences in my mind (I call this building of phrases in your head 'active thinking'). To boil it down to the essence: I percieved that there is something in my brain before the words are here. Before I think "The house is red", there is the idea of a house and the idea of red in my brain, the information is here, and I transform it _actively_ into words based on my knowledge of speech.
Here I see a connection to the way a guide talks to you... and an explanation of why the pendulum works in any language. You don't receive the words, you recieve 'ideas'. Reminds me of Platons world of ideas. So, you are the one who receives these ideas in your head when communicating with your guide, and you translate them into words to percieve them clearly and to think further about them.
Back to resonance: for a idea from your guide to reach you, I believe you must have some minimal notion of it... you can't talk about Integrals with someone who doesn't know mathematics, you can't have a discussion about politics if you have no _idea_ (note how clever the language is here) of politics at all.. you first have to gain a little knowledge through reading, studying, talking to someone who explains the basics to you, only then can you build much more knowledge on this foundation...

Don't see all this as pure 100% truth, it's just what I can percieve at the moment with my limited mind. I post it so we all can think about it and share our ideas. This is just the beginning of my journey with my guide, there can still be confusion and misinterpretation along the way, which will rapidely diminish as the contact grows stronger and clearer.

I can only emphasize what SeekingAnsers said earlier... LET GO. Be open, don't except anything, and trust yourself, your higher self, your guide.

Today I was guided out in the woods to see some trees... I talked to my guide the whole time, it's not easy at the beginning, but it is absolutely worth the effort. Just let go... at the end of my journey I was sitting on the roots of a beautiful majestic tree, a perfect place for meditation, or even only being in nature (where's the difference? )... maybe I'd never found this place without my guide ... it was a wonderful experience. Just let go... and don't be afraid. You all know what you have to do, and someone is there to help you...

With all my love,
 Edi

[MAYATNIK]

Dear Edi,

You are absolutely right, in the way you describe Telepathy coming into the head......in fact, it comes in as symbols, as 'packages'...... and those relate to a persons perception - what they can talk about at that time (and as you say, if you're not a mathematician, then you dont' have a maths sub-set.........so everything has to be by analogy to something else (no bad thing, actually, because most earth-disciplines are 'rigid' and have a tendency to polarisation of thought).  Thus, Telepathy is truly independent of langauge, even culture... and the person relates from their perception.  That is why it is important to be fully 'open' and receptive to all new things.....absorb like a sponge, all that the guide presents... without bringing in the conditioned 'intellect'.

The brain has a 'buffer' area...... rather like where the characters go in the computer after they've been typed in, and before you press <ENTER> OR <RETURN>  Each 'package' that comes in via Telepathy is unpacked and put into that buffer in its de-tokenised form - that is, trasformed into the particular language of choice (you can request to receive in any language you know), and the whole thing then makes 'sense' to you.  The only things that can't be sent as symbols are such as names etc.  so they are sent as 'literals'... literally spelled out letter by letter (the analogy here would be 'text' on a web page and graphics 'packaged' format - so that you can 'picture' what can't be put into words).

Another time, I'll write more about this.  Just a pen-sketch for now, and I just thought I'd let you know.  You're doing excellent !

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK

[Lasher]

Mayatnik,

I'm still waiting for my pendulum to arrive by mail.  I should have it by the end of this week.  I've been hesitant to make one while I wait because I don't want to get attached to my homemade one and then have the one I paid for arrive.  Silly probably.

But all of the recent talks about guides made me realize that I think I have been doing basic pendulum-type yes or know communication with my guide for a few months now.

It usually happens when I am at a point where I need to make a decision and I'm not sure what to do.  And I say in my head, "Goddess, should I stop at the bookstore and poke around after work?"  The response that I get is hard to explain, but it is sort of like a face nodding yes or no, but without the face.  It's just the motion of yes or no.  I had been starting to actually rely on it until one time it freaked me out by sort of having a tantrum.  I wish I could remember what my question was that time.  But anyway, at that time I decided that it must just be my mind playing tricks on me, an overactive imagination.

But now, in the light of your pendulum instructions and the results that others here have been getting with not just the pendulum but actual telepathy, I'm beginning to believe that my yes/no communications were actually a basic telepathy with my guide.

Maybe I should do the recommended pendulum exercises to the nodding in my head phenomenon and see what results I get.  What do you think?

Lasher

[cainam_nazier]

removed to avoid confusion

[SeekingAnsers]

quote:Originally posted by SeekingAnsers

quote:Originally posted by cainam_nazier

This you may find interesting.  As suggested above I have been using the pendulum while reading. In fact while reading this thread.  For the most part I get a good solid "yes" or "true" swing.

The interesting part comes in when I read comments that are geared towards a certain individual.  Almost all of them have produced a "NO" responce.  However I am not saying that these statements geared towards the individual at the time are false.  But the feeling that goes along with it is that the "NO" answer is in regards of how it applies to me.

Which gives me an idea for anyone else who maybe doing the same.  The "yes/no" responce given while reading may not always be a "true/false" reading.  But rather it strikes me that the "true/false" reading is only how it applies to you.  Thus being that the statement is not "false" but rather it does not apply to you.

Most recently this happened when Mayatnik gave a specific comment to 13.  When I read over it I got a "no/false" but not because it was not true but because it was not intended for me.

Ok very intresting but not sure were uv got that infomation. i must point out that your guide is not there to serve you blindly, she will test you, its far more worth your benifit reading whats here for yourself, thats what its here for. it wud be terrible if you were tested on a peice of infomation you really cud have benifited from and you get stuck behind everyone for a few weeks untill you work such a problem. i advise you check some of our previos posts it will help you to understand others experiances

thank you

Samuel.   and my loving Guide: MASHWAY
 xxxx               xxxx

[SeekingAnsers]

quote:Originally posted by 13

Thanks Mayatnik. I understand what you're saying and will take the instructions you provide at face value and see how my own work with the pendulum develops. My goal was not to cast doubt on the truth of your methods - I just have a regular habit of open questioning. I find that, especially in areas of higher knowledge, any time questions are discouraged the knowledge is suspect and does not stand on it's own merits, relying on 'authority'. But I recognise the need to adhere to a system to get the proper benefits, so will continue with the instructions as you have given them above. I am always interested in learning more, friend, and will let you know if I receive a Sign as mentioned by your guide.

well thats no problem at all 13, you no iv just had a great idea!! how about you go start a topic on your magical new method and dont post your ways here to cause absulate caos to the people who actully want to learn how to use the pendulum proply,

After a long talk with my guide and checking with MAYATNIK's guide, Mayatnik and me were both told by our guides that they were very pleased with all the posts from the people serios about learning, and as the guides read your post both of our guides said they were VERY upset with ur ignorance to THEIR tool, we are under instructions to teach people this method and suffer from great difficulty when they read other people discribing there way of playing GAMES with it, This method is not for games, its for learning. Then after bein told how to use this tool, uv insisted u prefer it as a toy. i can asure you, you cause great problems for us when people who just want to learn stumble across jargon like this, i suggest you goto page1 and read the history behind your "TOY".

Please do not disrespect the SPECIES that cumnicate with us fru this tool its not the point of this topic and sends out a terrible message from Mayatnik and ME. i hope this is clear and understood, i think what your after has more realtion to a ouji board, thank you for your time and intrest but PLEASE go read the hole of page1.from there if u want to learn please come back and post it will be more than a pleasure to teach you. i dont think your aware of the upset uv caused to the Guides. thease things arnt for us to control nor to pretend we can, it is not your higherself you are speaking to as many are starting to learn, it is a Species that WILL take offence and will use me to strongly defend its proper use, all they want to do is reveal these instructions to EVERYONE so that people can learn freely with this reliable method they have given.

I know many shall look at this and think im being a tad harsh but please remember i have full mental cumnicational skills with my guide and she is not happy to see such abuse of there tool.
I have been asked to type this by instruction of my guide.

Samuel. and my loving guide MASHWAY  

[Lasher]

quote:Seeking Ansers wrote:
both of our guides said they were VERY upset with ur ignorance to THEIR tool,

Hmmm...
Should we have second thoughts about working with guides who have anger management problems.

Mayatnik,
What do you think about Seeking Ansers post?

Lasher

[Novice]

Lasher-
I completely agree. I re-read the posts by 13 and didn't see anything in there which I would interpret as derogatory or negative attitude.

And in fact, I completely agree with 13's last post regarding suspicion of higher knowledge. That's exactly what I have been doing. I do not take anything for what its being presented as and in fact would fully encourage people to always question things. I personally also get very nervous when questionning and validation attempts are frowned upon. In fact, if the information coming through is Truth, then the opposite should be encouraged.

I appreciate your motive for the post SeekingAnswers, but I do not perceive 13's post to be counter productive to this thread. In fact, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't accept things because I've been told to. And in all honestly, I have no intention of acting on any of the information provided until I have some kind of 'waking life' sign or proof that tells me otherwise. I will continue to question and evaluate the responses that I receive until that moment arrives. From my 'conversations' with my higher self, this is not only expected, but 'signs' have apparently already been put into the works before this thread started.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[13]

LOL []...Seeking Answers, perhaps your 'guides' misunderstood me, yes? [] As I said before, I'm not seeking to throw doubt on anyone's knowledge or practices, and I respect Mayatnik's guidance. But the hostile and authoritarian tone in your reply tells me a lot - I think, to be perfectly frank, you are 'divining' the contents of your own psyche. If you had a wide enough experience of various channeling methods and the entities being channeled, you would know how common this is. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you should seriously question a being of 'higher intelligence' that reacts like they have been personally injured when their teachings are probed... I am talking from experience, I have spoken with many guides and entities, and they are very much alike - they all hate to be questioned, they are all speechless when proof is shown that their knowledge is false, and they all behave erratically thereafter. I hope yours is different. I have only a few times encountered higher beings who enjoy questioning, in fact their answers are so good as to remove all further doubt and the need for questions... in fact they openly joke with me about my questioning nature. That sort of being has my respect, not the one which you so emotionally 'channeled'. Remember, the Truth is your soul has the Divine Spark within it, you yourself are a Being of the highest order - you are inferior to noone, and any being which asserts superiority or mandatory authority is not worthy of the attention of Truth-seeking individuals.

As for Mayatnik and Karek, I spoke with a being who claimed to be Karek tonight, who passed me a brief message. I will wait for Mayatnik's response on this, since if it was his guide then she will pass on a message from me and he can quickly establish publicly that such channeled guides are more than peoples' own psyches. If it wasn't, then the pendulum has apparently told a lie, which has the same conclusion, ie. an objective proof of the character and ability of guides will be made one way or another. In fact, if Karek knows me and has mentioned there is a Sign for me, surely she would know my initials? This alone would convince me of the ability of such pendulum-channeled entities.

Please don't interpret my probing as pessimistic tyre-kicking...but I have learnt over time and with experience to fully explore the integrity of channelings. The fact that super-physical communication happens does *not* indicate the nature of what is on the other side, be it pendulum, ouija, full mediumship, etheric touch, etc. You might find Robert Bruce has adopted a similar approach, given the many entities he has also been in contact with over the years. The only way forward is rigorous and honest questioning...I'm sorry friend if you don't see that, but clinging to a comfortable belief that is unproven is called 'religion'...

[MAYATNIK]

IMPORTANT –
PLEASE READ FULLY.

Throughout this thread, I have consistently stressed that EVERYTHING should be questioned rigorously, and that this is the object of learning to use the Pendulum, and yet I am appalled to see this raised as an issue implying that questioning is somehow not only frowned upon but stamped upoon.  And, seeing as I am the one who brought the full instructions of how to use this 'advanced' method (as it has been termed by my guide, who gave me by Telepathy all this Knowledge specifically to pass on), it therefore points by implication directly to myself as having such an 'agenda' as to restrict open questioning, directly or indirectly.

The careful reader of this thread cannot fail to see the importance of methodolgy in making sure that questions have the maximum possible freedom whilst at the same time ensuring repeatability so that others may check results.  Far from being a restrictioon the 'guidelines' set out for this - and a very apt term, because it was the guides who originally, many thousands of years ago, brought these rules to the earth for man to use and explore his spirituality – are very well structured to enable inner development.  Of even more crucial importance to have in place are the definitions of the actual movements, since, without a clear understanding of these,  answers may be given any meaning according to what the person feels should be the 'correct' interpretation of that movement.  Whilst there is provision for reprogramming movements, it is advisable, my guide tells me, for the beginner to stick with the 'basic' movments (two of these are not 'assigned' in any case so can if required by utilized for programming anyway).  However, one particular movement that should not be reprogrammed is the circular movement or <SEARCH> mode (this is adequately explained in several posts, so I shall not repeat this here).

I was alarmed that members may get confused when a post appeared penned by a member named "13", redefining the <SEARCH> mod> based on his 'kowledge' picked up. But, worse was the fact that this had been replaced by an incredulous <MAYBE> meaning ascribed to it, which is totally nonsensical and illogical in the extreme, since it aborts the search in progress for the answer requested and assumes this 'maybe'  answer in its place, effectively throwing away any knowledge there to be gained.  I had assumed that the member in question was reasonably educated in such matters and I could explain his faulty 'reasoning' to him, and that we could all benefit from this with his added input to this thread.

I realise now that, in the light of what I can only describe as an 'attack' mode of ooperation, I expended far too much energy in trying to give a summary of what should have been apparent had the member read through the thread – which he admitted he had not done.  This cavalier approach is not indicative of a desire to embrace something new (which it obviously was) with openness to learn until such time as a considered viewpoint could be reached.

With regard to the 'question' of guides in all of this, what is put forward in the post of "13" above, it is an insult to any guide - when it has already been not only asserted but explained in great detail (again, presumably unread)- for a person to doubt the integrity of such Beings, having bestowed this considerable knowledge for the benefit of Mankind in giving the ability to be able to ascertain the Truth..... especially  when it can be clearly seen on inspection that it is a fully 'open' system of Divination, and furthermore of Ancient Origin.  Needless to say, the Truth of which I speak is easily verifiable by using the proper method, as set out in this thread.

"13" sums up his post above with the comment  addressed to me:
<< "The only way forward is rigorous and honest questioning...I'm sorry friend if you don't see that, but clinging to a comfortable belief that is unproven is called 'religion' " >>

Well, I'm sorry that you feel this way in the light of facts you clearly don't know, and had you read all the thread you would have known: Namely, that what is presented here is not a 'belief', but is the actual words of my guide given lovingly, and placed on these pages by myself as the  chosen channeled 'vehicle' – a job to which I have dedicated my life, and this labour of love on behalf of the Higher realms offered freely to all who seek.  "13" has referred to Pendulum Channeling, as if to imply that my knowledge comes from the Pendulum.  The 'Advanced' Pendulum method, as given here, is only a starter and nothing more, but it is a starter of Truth Divination.  It is not, and has never been ascribed the function of, a Channeling medium.  I do not, myself, use the Pendulum; I merely teach it.  And, for the last 7 years I have exclusively channeled via the medium of instant Telepathy with my Pleiadian guide, and in that time I have spent considerably more that 30,000 hours in 'conversation' and Teaching from that High Being of Light, covering such topics as the True Origin of Man and all that the guides have done upon this earth since and will continue to do – all of this in great depth, which I channel when asked to be a vehicle for that Knowedge.

So, it is not in any way a belief, and far from comfortable sometimes to be mocked by those who can only stand and sneer in ignorance.  I would suggest that you, "13", read far more widely and eclectically before making sweeping judgements.  And, in view of the sheer incalcitrance of your latest post, I can only say that, in my considered opinion, that you, sir, are not only insufferably impudent, but also Arrogant in the extreme.  For this reason, I no longer wish to share this website with you.

Regettably for other members with whom it has been a pleasure to share these pages, I shall no longer be with you.  I shall miss you, dear friends. and all the more for what I might yet have given in the words of my channeling, and which now will never be said.  This is the wish of my guide, Karek.  God Bless and Take Care !

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
Edward Angelu
Channeling as MAYATNIK.

[greatoutdoors]

I must throw in my two-cents on behalf of 13. To test for truth is no crime, and to refrain from following blindly is no sin. Mayatnik raises some interesting questions for me, and I am in the process of testing the pendulum myself. But she and SeekingAnswers worry me just a bit. Their comments are full of "my guide forbids" or "my guide instructs". Are they slaves, then, to these guides? That's been a big problem for me with most established religions. It's all about divine love, so long as you abide precisely by the tenants of that "God". But dire things will befall should you fail to be a good little soldier. And for anyone who doesn't believe as you do, well, look out!

Bottom line, hang in there 13, and keep the healthy skepticism going - and never mind starting your own thread unless you want to!

[travelinbob]

May I propose an experiment for testing this matter. (I use the pendulum and I like to test it once in a while just to make sure I am not fooling myself.)

The experiment is as follows:

Take two pitchers of water. In one dissolve some sugar. In the other dissolve some salt. Take a some glasses and fill half with the salt water and half with the sweet water.

Arrange at random in front of you. (Preferably have someone help you arrange them so you can not know which is which).

Use the pendulum to determine,one at a time, which is salt water and which is sugar water. Take one glass from the bunch and ask the pendulum to give you a yes if it is salt water. (Or a yes if it is sugared water, makes no difference). Taste the water and record if the penulum is right. Do with all glasses. And determine percentage of right awnsers. And share the results.

[Edi]

quote:Originally posted by greatoutdoors

I must throw in my two-cents on behalf of 13. To test for truth is no crime, and to refrain from following blindly is no sin. Mayatnik raises some interesting questions for me, and I am in the process of testing the pendulum myself. But she and SeekingAnswers worry me just a bit. Their comments are full of "my guide forbids" or "my guide instructs". Are they slaves, then, to these guides? That's been a big problem for me with most established religions. It's all about divine love, so long as you abide precisely by the tenants of that "God". But dire things will befall should you fail to be a good little soldier. And for anyone who doesn't believe as you do, well, look out!

Bottom line, hang in there 13, and keep the healthy skepticism going - and never mind starting your own thread unless you want to!

You see it in a somewhat extreme way. The guides are here for you to learn what they can teach you. If you don't want to learn, or if you need more time to establish trust in this type of communication - it's no problem at all. Nobody will punish you, no 'dire things will befall you'. It's an offer which you can accept and reject at any time, it's your free decision. Mayatnik dedicated his life to channeling from his guide - does this mean he is a slave? Cooperation is not repression... but do you see the sense in him and others wanting to agree with their guides? Like ... If you're told a secret and you pass it on, you won't be told any secrets until trust is reestablished.

But this is drifting off... we are here to discuss our first steps with the pendulum, so I'd be happy to see this confusion calm down. I feel that by sharing our experiences many things will get clearer. 13, how are you getting on with the pendulum? Please note that I appreciate your criticism as a necessary counterbalance to immoderate enthusiasm which could possibly arise... but neiter of them will get us anywhere on it's own.

With all my love,
 Edi

[Serenity1]

Thanks Edi [8D]
I agree with your calm outlook on this.
I'm not progressing in leaps and bounds but am enjoying the little bit I'm learning each day for now. Would love to here how others are getting along.[]
My progress
(my Pendulum/Guid likes listening to music Carlos Santana -Smooth)
I was sitting listening to the CD with a cup of coffy and picked up the Pendulum and held it and consciously listened to the lyrics to see if it acknoweledged what was being said in the lyrics and it started swinging longer YES swings (5 inches)than what I have been getting normaly (1 inch)so far.This follows and lead on from what someone said []about playing a letter gessing game in a previous post, and surprised me to get this positive response.

Hope this subject keeps going cause I'm getting more success from this than my attempts at AP etc.

Cheers all.[]

[greatoutdoors]

Travelinbob, great idea about the water glasses! That should show in short order if it's working or not -- and our taste buds will be the judge! It may take awhile for me to arrange, but I will do it and let you know the result. 13, hopefully, you will do the same. Comparing our results should be informative!

Edi, I don't pretend to be an expert, more like rank amateur. I know there is, call it a "cosmic energy field", for lack of a better word (I can sense it), and I know we can pick up thoughts from others (I've done it, not on purpose). I've had one OBE, so I know that, too, is possible. And I want to know MORE!!

This is the first time I've ever gotten involved in a website forum, because the ones I've seen 'til now have been so obviously phoney. But R. Bruce is giving every indication of being what I've been trying to find for a long time -- someone interested in the knowledge and the sharing, and not money or ego.

I still feel a little like the wolf who sees the steak and but looks for the arsenic that's usually in it. But I so much appreciate you folks out there willing to discuss and converse and would ask that you humor me just a bit. Maybe we can all contribute and learn from each other. THANKS ROBERT!

[Squeek]

Umm, real quick, why not just use something much easier than water and such...like...the cup and ball gag.  Get like 3 cups (all equal) and put anything under one of them.  Then shuffle blindly or get someone else (just figure it out so that you can't know.) Then ask.  Easier than drinking SALT water :X

~Squeek

[13]

Thanks Lasher, Novice and GreatOutdoors for the vote of support. I really don't want to make the discussion into a battle, and while I have my own processes for learning and testing, I do my best to respect anyone's right to their beliefs.

Mayatnik, I'm sorry you feel that way. Frankly friend, it is your problem, not mine. I've never been discourteous, and always tried to keep the discussion on a logical, enquiring basis, but you have become aggressive and personal. There is no need to be. Is it really me you are angry with? I know you have dedicated your life to channeling, and have built a great relationship with Karek, but can I ask if you have absolutely verified beyond any doubt the information Karek (and others) give you? I realise the great appeal that channeling "higher information" from "superior alien races" has. In my experience with several forms of divination, as well as my own trance and astral contacts, I have met a wider variety of "Intelligences" (some of them not worthy of the name) and so am not as trusting by default. I followed your instructions closely, and my pendulum makes discrete and verifiable moves. I am convinced of the ability of it as a communication tool. But mystifying it and making it almost a religious practice is unrealistic. It is a *mediumship* ability, like anything else, whether automatic writing, in-body channeling, ouija, etc. They *all*, without exception, use the same basis of etheric manipulation by a foreign entity. For a person trained in astral- or mental-plane wandering, they can converse with such beings in their natural habitat, as could also happen OBE. However to gain a physical manifestation, they do not inherently have matter of a physical or etheric density, thus they need to borrow it from humans. A medium provides this from their own etheric stores, or draws it in from the external environment, allowing the being to manipulate physical objects by applying their will to the loaned etheric matter. This is not new, nor am I inventing it - read any good mediumship book written in the last 100 years. The ethical and intellectual capabilities of the being will *always* *always* vary, and unless one is clairsentient enough to perceive the energy signature (identity) of the being in question, one is neer sure, despite the assurances of the being (ie, Are you my Higher Self? Are you Karek?)

I have worked with the pendulum several times a day since beginning, and last night I asked to speak to Karek. After several moments the pendulum stopped moving, then started circling which I intuited as another entity coming through. I asked if this was Karek - she said Yes. I asked several questions related to your posts and SeekingAnswers posts - most of the answers validated what you had said. Several disagreed with it. I asked if Karek would speak to you soon, and if she could pass on a message from me. Obviously, either she didn't pass on the message, or the being I talked to wasn't Karek (surprise, surprise). I genuinely have an interest in all forms of spiritual learning, and I have not made any effort in my posts to discuss my experience in various areas - it is not an ego battle nor do I want to make it one. I am happy to be the humble student for any new lesson. I performed a pendulum test just now to continue my enquiries on it all - however this time I was very very strict and entirely objective in my questioning. This is an example of the simplest form of objective test for any channeled entity....

13: To indicate your presence, please give me a strong Yes signal
P: indicates Yes
13: I am not sure of your identity, but I will abstractly refer to you as the Pendulum, and treat your knowledge and ability as that of the pendulum generally, not that of any single entity. Do you understand?
P: Yes
13: I am going to perform an experiment to confirm your precognitive ability. Do you concede to such an experiement?
P: Yes
13: Do you have the ability to know, predict and accurately advise on the future, as I understand time?
P: Yes
13: To confirm, you have the ability to read the future, including my particular future?
P: Yes
(I wanted a confirmation, since entities such as Karek have told me to expect a "Sign" indicating they were aware of my future)
13: Do you have access to the Akashic records in either astral or mental density?
P: Yes, the circle (SEARCH)
13: (Figuring out a rephrase, limiting to a single question) Do you have access to the Akashic records on an astral density?
P: Yes
13: So you can navigate the Akasha to become aware of future probabilities?
P: Yes
13: Do you have access to them now?
P: Yes
13: In that case, can you read the very immediate future?
P: Yes
13: Then let us begin the experiment. I will choose 3 cards from the major arcana (lying on my desk). I will pick 3 at random, lay them face down, and ask you to navigate to the future (when I turn them over) and tell me whether they are numbered even or odd. You have a 1 in 8 chance of random success, but I will take success as proof of your ability. Do you understand this experiment?
P: Yes
(Chose and laid out 3 cards face down)
13: (Laying my hand on the first card) If this card is numbered Even, signal Yes, if it is Odd, signal No. For any other response, such as inability to continue, please remain still.
P: signalled Yes, indicating EVEN
13: To confirm, you signalled the first card to be EVEN. If this is correct, please circle clockwise.
P: circles clockwise
13: (Repeating question and confirmation process with 2nd card)...signal Yes for Even, No for Odd?
P: signalled Yes, indicating EVEN
13: (Repeating question and confirmation process with 3rd card)...signal Yes for Even, No for Odd?
P: signalled No, indicating ODD

So it predicted 1st card EVEN, 2nd card EVEN, 3rd card ODD. When turned over the cards were...
It predicted
1st card...16 "THE TOWER"......EVEN......(Correct)
2nd card...7  "THE CHARIOT"....ODD.......(Incorrect)
3rd card...3  "THE EMPRESS"....ODD.......(Correct)

Well, it was far from convincing, but with 2 of 3 I gave it the benefit of the doubt and repeated the experiment. I explained that it got 1 of 3 wrong, and for the first 2 minutes afterwards the pendulum was less active. This *always* happens with such entities - they know they fail and they know we know. Having had this happen many times before, I cloaked my bemusement and put on a cheery tone, and project confidence and trust to the entity, asking nicely for a second run to further explore it's predictive ability. It consented, and I performed exactly the same process (question, confirmation, etc) with the following results.

It predicted 1st card EVEN, 2nd card ODD, 3rd card EVEN. When turned over the cards were...
1st card...1  "THE MAGICIAN"........ODD.......(Incorrect)
2nd card...2  "THE HIGH PREISTESS"..EVEN......(Incorrect)
3rd card...21 "THE UNIVERSE"........ODD.......(Incorrect)

With final results at 2 out of 6 correct, I told the entity it was either lying or grossly deluded in it's predictive ability. The pendulum became silent, and I banished the being from the room and my mental sphere. Very predictable - I have had many entities claim incredible sources of knowledge, and fail on the most simple of tests, like reading a wall clock or knowing basic elements from the future. Without fail, they all pretend to be more than they are until proven otherwise, which is why it is *essential* for humans to be more assertive in their interdimensional communications. Most astral entities love the attention, and will make up very fanciful stories so long as the session continues. However, they *do* have the ability to read thoughts, which explains the great success they have with personal elements - if I had access to someone's thoughts I'd be able to put a very convincing subjective experience together if I were channeled. I've even explored this aspect further, with several people all participating. We get people to guess numbers from 1 to 10 in their head and get the entity to guess the person with the highest number, lowest number, etc. After explaining the rules several times, most entities *still* fail in the ability to apply simple logic to the contents of the minds they read. Their existence is entirely mental and emotional, they are often like children who haven't even been taught basic arithmetic, but they do excel at certain mental abilities. I mention this only to say that caution and rationality are advised in all cases. This isn't too much to ask is it? and any being of good nature and high intelligence will readily concede to this human peculiarity. Certain beings (those who are warm towards humans) actually enjoy it - it's as if a child tried to grill an adult by asking "What's 4 + 2?" The can always convincly *demonstrate* their abilities. Anything of lower ability relies on bluff and the faith shown by the diviner...

Edward - it is your choice to cease further postings. To be honest, I find it a little immature but I thank you for the knowledge you contributed in any event. If you were more open to discussion, criticism and exploration, you would be nowhere near as emotional. I guarantee you, your 'guide' Karek will not like me, nor will she like any interrogation of an objective nature. If this doesn't scream something to you, no further words of mine will. I wish you the best in your travels and higher learning friend.

[goingslow]

Even though I think it seems very disrespectful to invite something in then banish it if it doesn't answer a few questions correctly It does bring up a good point about this type of thing.  Is it in fact chanelling any being out there.  I was wondering the same thing myself.. How do you know its that different from other methods of chanelling?

I guess a medium has to be reached where one isn't completely disrespectful to whatever comes through but also not completely taken by it and willing to take every bit of information the being gives as coming from the highest sources.


Wish you the best of luck Mayatnik, it was a good topic.

[Squeek]

I read the post 13...and  begin the way I am, I just can't come to beleive that it is an "entity".  It does scare me not knowing who's on the other end of my pendulum, but I tend not to think about it. I mean it's been right so far.  I asked last night if I'd do good on my driving test today and I did quite well.  If it gives me bad advice then...I'll...do something....

~Squeek

[SeekingAnsers]

Hi []
I must appologise for not posting, iv been away,
odear it looks like "13" just drowned herself in that last post, im pleased with you all! you know how to spot a fraud,
me? atitude problem? bad temperd guide? i asure it cudnt be further from the truth. but please remember the guides are far far more intelegent than me or you, they can spot a fraud a mile off, so im orderd to deal with it, im afraid "13" is victim to far to many books,
and i asure everyone, u can ask what u like ive not implyed otherwise.
your guide is your learning experiance.but we carnt start changing the rules to the process of asking, im sorry,but the guides wont "play" as desired if you do.

again i know to many my post seemd harsh, but frauds with to much knoweldge kneed are dangeros,because there just drill people who want to learn with *rubbish*. many as i know from this forum have already relised this. i mean just check "13" last post, read and read again and you will eventually see.I do not blame "13" because as my guide says, she is a victim from to much knoledge

please remember you do not have to worship your guides at all, But to frow dissrespect at someone aiming to teach you, well whud that insult you?,i,e continualsy ask negitive qeustions and to test and to acuse etc.etc

i wish to teach you all still as i know how to teach you. but 1st you all must see "why". guides do not get angry and frow rages.that was "me" plus the infomation being channeld.

and how do i know this about "13"?? because she says shes spoke to Karek, witch is far from the truth,i asked my guide Mashway and she instantly told me this was not true in a very firm insisting mannorism, that is just a her being "lead down the garden path". they teach those who will be willing to learn and not frow it in there faces. again you will all qeustion this at 1st. but just re-read her last post and it WILL become clear. you are all doing so well, it has been placed by me to help train thos who still wish to learn. just do not be decived.

you see progresion is achieved by positivity. please put your trust in this fact. stop trying to qeustion and prove your guides.
you will only stop yourself dead in your tracks. there are guides that anser for you to learn. they do not want to keep having to provethemselfs. (whud it anoy you?)
POSSITIVITY IS THE ONLY WAY FOWARD.
KNOLEDGE IS THE WAY FOWARD. put the 2 together and you can blindly see the anser is, Trust,Qeustions,Knolegde.
otherwise you will be stuck at the point were "13" is dipiste she belives otherwise. please donot give up on your pendulums. you are all doing so well, lets move on from 13. i want to hear all your personal experiances. i want us all to progress, as we all can. we just have to beware of thos who have to much knoledge and dont know how to apply it. (as they always claim to be correct) i do not say i have telepathic guide for fun, to decive you all, im here now because i have to continue the mission to teach, this forum is far from finished. all we have to is have learnt from "13" is a "lesson". so please learn from it.

I really look foward to the futre of this forum now, i want us all to stop and share are most mindblowing and brain teasing experiances.

you are all exelent pupils, and i wud not worry about Mayatnik hes just very busy with certain "jobs", but im more than qualified to teach you all.
and you all will sucseed.

anyway its time for people to make there choice, to continue and to learn from people like "13", or to discontinue jue to the complexity of the learning procsess.

Remeber its time to ask everything from are guides fru the pendulum
(im not sure why im being told to tell that to everyone,something to do with too many people asking to many negitive qeustions)

thank you all for your time. i greatly look foward to hearing from you and your opinions on what has transpired.

with love and respect

Samuel, and my loving Guide Mashway

[Tisha]

Folks, I've learned a lot from this string.  Especially the last few pages, when it started unraveling (pun intended).

See how easy it is to be misled?   Frankly, the title of this thread "AND THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOWN" set off danger signals in my head.  Was I the only one?  It sounded so evangelistic.  I'm not challenging the power of the pendulum or any other divination tool - - for goodness sake I'm a witch, that's what I do, work with oracles!  What I AM SAYING is that human perception, human interpretations, are imperfect, and we all have to be VERY careful about hopping on the bandwagon, even the New Age bandwagon.  Sometimes we're TOO credulous.

First, Mayatnik urges us not to adopt what he/she says blindly, that we should explore things, challenge them, and learn the truth for ourselves.  However, once faced with a genuine challenge to her presumptions (thank you 13), she gets defensive, her student gets all huffy (ego alert! ego alert!), and both parties (?) leave the discussion.

What you were witnessing was a challenge to a cherished Belief System.  Stick around, it happens a lot!

In the mean time, for those of you who wish to continue work with your pendulum(s?) - - what's the plural of pendulum? - - - please keep this in mind:

A.  There are a lot of Beings out there on the Astral, good, bad, and indifferent.  Just because it's talking to you doesn't mean it's smart.  Or good. Or that it has your best interests at heart.  You will have to determine it for yourself over time, by verifying what it tells you.  STAY AWARE.

B.  Higher beings do not get offended.  Taking offense is an affectation, and Higher Beings are simply above it. If your Astral Friend displays pride, self-importance, offense, or any other ego-driven impulse, you're dealing with a lower being who's getting his jollies off, jerking you around like a puppet for his/her own entertainment or ego-needs (what lower form wouldn't love to be worshipped!).

C.  Higher beings don't lie.  They just won't do it.  There is no motive.  They don't "test you" by lying or misleading you.  So if an Astral being jerks you around, thank it for its time and bid it adieu.

BTW, It's OK to banish unwelcome Astral visitors.  Really.  In fact, banishment a good way to communicate your unwillingness to host them again. Think about it first, though, before you burn your bridges.  Banishing something and asking its advice later can be pretty embarrasing.

ANYWAY, despite the way this thread is ending (?), I do think the information is very valuable (perhaps we could move it to Divination and Prophecy?) and we should keep it as a "sticky."

Good night, tomorrow I'm on a jet plane, won't be back for many-a-day . . .