The "Spritual Body"

[Blue Glitter Neon]

Hello all, first post here!

I have a question that I ponder and maybe you can fill in the blanks?

Supposing that there is an afterlife and the so called astral dimensions are where we go when we die, I would like to know what this implies for your bodily shape and form.

If our body in the afterlife is composed of 'spiritual matter' and the world we arrive in is largely dependent on our modes of thought and desires that we bring with us, wouldn't that imply also that the way we look in the afterlife would be influenced by 'expectation' (for lack of a better word)?

In other words, would a short and homely man who would like to look like a superhero become muscular and tall in the afterlife? Or a trans-sexual man turn into a woman (his perceived 'true self')? Someone else become a dragon or whatever? Or, do we keep the general looks that we have had to put up with and grown used to here in the material universe?

When I read quotes from Leadbeater, Madame Besant and those old classics on the Internet, they don't seem to give a coherent answer. Maybe someone who has visited the astral planes through projection/OBE or even NDE might help to shed som light on this?

[Xanth]

I'm of the opinion that this physical reality is every bit an "astral reality" as the ones you visit when you fall asleep at night.

I'm also of the opinion that everything is consciousness.  EVERYTHING.  You, me, your computer, the stars, your dreams, the things in your dreams... all consciousness.  All ONE.  All the same thing.  You are not identified by your current form.  Your current form is a "label" in the same way that the tasty ball on your table is labelled an "apple".  It's only a means to define and describe you to others.

Whatever form you choose while non-physical is as meaningless as the form you have physically. 
There's nothing physical that matter... what REALLY matter are the non-physical things and interactions with other consciousness beings.

[Blue Glitter Neon]

Alright, thanks for a thoughtful reply. However, it didn't really answer my question. It is said that the astral dimensions are "as real as Charing Cross" to those who dwell there. In other words, what form and outer appearance you take on while there isn't a trivial matter since it would consequently be REAL as well, just as real as on Earth.

For example, an ugly person on Earth is an unhappy and relatively unloved person. So the "physical" matters alright. If the other world is as physical as this one then, ceteris paribus, the same would apply if you had to keep your appearance.

I'm simply curious about what life on the other side might be like, so to put it in so many words, can you "choose" what appearance you take on?

[Xanth]

Alright, thanks for a thoughtful reply. However, it didn't really answer my question. It is said that the astral dimensions are "as real as Charing Cross" to those who dwell there. In other words, what form and outer appearance you take on while there isn't a trivial matter since it would consequently be REAL as well, just as real as on Earth.

Let me take another stab at this...

You say:

If our body in the afterlife is composed of 'spiritual matter'

My perspective is that you are consciousness.  You're always consciousness regardless of what reality you're experiencing.
As such, your body is as much "spiritual matter" right this very second as it will be when you die and move on.  This is why you don't understand the answer I provided you in my first response.  You see a separation between "here" and "there"... where I don't see any such separation.

Hence, why I say what form you take is meaningless.  You are what you are.  What matters is what you do and how you act... not what you look like.

Does that make more sense?

For example, an ugly person on Earth is an unhappy and relatively unloved person in this world. So the "physical" matters alright. If the other world is as physical as this one then the same would apply if you had to keep your appearance.

The person in your example isn't unhappy because they're ugly.  They're unhappy because they're believing the thought that they're ugly.
What happens when that "ugly" person stops believing the thought that they're ugly?  That's all it is, a thought.  Stop believing the thought and there's no reason to be unhappy anymore. 

Do you believe every thought you have?

I'm simply curious about what life on the other side might be like.

Take a look around you right now.  Look BEYOND the physicalness of this reality. 
When you remove everything physical, what do you have left?  What remains?  What are the non-physical aspects of this reality?
THAT is what life will be like everywhere.

Oh and welcome to the forums!  It's good to have you here. 

[Blue Glitter Neon]

Thanks! It's cool being here.

Heh, actually I understood where you were going with this the first time around. It's not like I don't get your idea. All I asked for was a simple yes or no. But never mind.

So in other words, your position is that this crap place, like it is to so many if not most people, will just go on and on no matter the side of the fence you're on... Well, that's a depressing thought. No wonder those guys in India 2600 years ago all went Buddhist.

Maybe you could reply to another question instead. Have you personally been astral projecting or have you just read a lot of books and encountered a lot of hearsay on the matter, like me?

[Xanth]

Thanks! It's cool being here.

Heh, actually I understood where you were going with this the first time around. It's not like I don't get your idea. All I asked for was a simple yes or no. But never mind.

Then... yes. 

So in other words, your position is that this crap place, like it is to so many if not most people, will just go on and on no matter the side of the fence you're on... Well, that's a depressing thought. No wonder those guys in India 2600 years ago all went Buddhist.

Just an observation, but you've got a pretty negative view of this reality.
See, that's just perspective and goes back to the statement I made above about what would you be if you didn't believe the thought that you're ugly?

Maybe you could reply to another question instead. Have you personally been astral projecting or have you just read a lot of books and encountered a lot of hearsay on the matter, like me?

I'll tell you what... read some more of my posts, read my website (www.unlimitedboundaries.ca), and read my book (which I offer freely: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39504726/Phasing_Primer.pdf) and judge for yourself.
But here's the catch, don't tell me what you decide... because I don't really care and I wouldn't want you to waste your breath. 

[Szaxx]

By your suggestion of having a body it's clear you readings are from those who are only saying what's expected. There exists percieved locations where you have no form whatsoever.
This concept is difficult to comprehend as the physical is in reality a three dimensional construct that all matter exists within.
The key point being matter, we as an individuality, exist outside of this matter based reality however we are connected to it. This life force that we are is what is being projected into other realities. It is a concious awareness of self and can be percieved as a point source of existance.
This point source has no physical form, it could be realised as an energetic form so no body as such is required. That said it can therefore exist in an energetic environment. This may be percieved as light and without form. To add to this the emotions you feel are also part of the self and these interact within the energetic environments in an apparent display of colours in some.
If you have read many theosophical pages of literature you'll understand their meanings of differing levels or realms.
Its all one conciousness and appears to come from the source. The source being a generic term derived from what in religion is termed God, in my many experiences it's an all encompassing existance of all that is and our physical universe is a tiny fraction of it.
I'm attempting to open your mind to the wider reality. A body is not required as such, its is however a requirement for existance in many physical world like environments.

[Blue Glitter Neon]

Thanks Szaxx, your attempt at opening my mind is appreciated. Actually, your line of thinking seems rather similar to my own. I also reckon with many different kinds of realities, some that would be 'energetic' and without form for instance. I also think the force essence that we are would likely project into other worlds at the same time as we consciously are being here (it sort of follows from speculation if consciousness is not the sole material product of and located inside our brains), and likewise, the essence of other realities probably project into our minds as well, giving rise to various visions and mental phenomena, inspiring creativity etc.

I don't think my soul finds itself particularly drawn to these formless locations however, no matter the sense of bliss and proximity to the source etc. In fact, what I'm really after is probably beauty in a wide sense of the word, that is, beauty requiring form. This world has so little of it and so much of ugliness and what's more, it's completely 'random' in distribution. Beginning by asking about the spiritual body of beings was probably an awkward way of getting around to that, but of course it's not irrelevant.


Xanth, going to check out your book. This could be fun! 

[Bluefirephoenix]

I agree with Xanth and he stated it well. Personal identity is not the same in the astral as it is in physical. For example we  can be WE or One with the one... I can be mostly I and partly we and any combination thereof. This happens when I am channeling. I can channel because I can allow my space to be with someone else s space. The more I can allow that to happen the better the channeling. So there is separatness but that can be adjusted according to intention.

[Kzaal]

I think the same way as theses guys do, you're free to be what you want to be in the astral realm and the afterlife.
You can either connect to the source, go with no form and be a part of the source.
Or you can be connected to the source and wander in the celestial and the cosmos helping whoever you want really.
You can connect to the source, go with no forms, then decide you'll go with an appearance then help people in the cosmos.
It's really up to you what you decide to do once you're enlightened.
And literally there's no difference between the path you choose to be, You don't have to be formless if you don't feel like it.
It wont change anything in the end, because after 60-100 billion years in the cosmos and celestial you'll end up with the same achievements as anyone really.
Someone connected to the source won't be more advanced than someone who's connected to the source spiritually, but decide to take a different spiritual appearance.
Cause in the end everyone will have connected to the source one way or another.
Of course some people may say that it's like a requirement to go formless but it doesn't matter.
Your consciousness is formless... Why would you need to go fully formless and appear as a ghost to other spiritual beings?
Even if you want to connect permanently to the source, it wont let you, and you wont let yourself do it either.
Because one way or another, there will always be another spiritual being that will want to see you in your form someday.
Or the source will send you on a mission to help others and you have no other choice than to do it physically.
That is also a reason why people must stay connected to the source spiritually and consciously.
We give it energy so it can produce more conscious beings in my opinion.
That is why, when people say that humans are special because we have a REAL physical form it's true. We are advanced, we are already in our physical form, we are Spiritual Beings learning to stay connected to the source, while learning to live as a form.
No matter what you do, only the source itself will stay as formless as a light. It contains everything about the cosmos, and the celestial realm and much more.
It will allow you to tap into it's knowings and wisdom but will prefer you to learn it by yourself.
One of my friend was also kinda fanatic about that formless thing and being just made of light, he would state that whatever we do we become like the source,
but the problem is... we are already a part of the source, we've always been. No need to try and imitate it.

Edit: And yeah I also think you choose to be what you want to be once you're there.

[soarin12]

When I first started projecting, I had no body.  I was a single point of consciousness.  Then I went on the forums for the first time, and realized that most people who are new to AP have a body when they project.  I decided I was missing out and that I wanted a body too.  That thought and desire was all it took, and the next time I projected, I had a body.  After several months of experiencing that, I decided to go back to formless again. (I do both now)

I'm fairly sure the reason I started out bodiless is because the spiritual beliefs I was raised with were that when one leaves the physical, they will have no form.  It was a very strong notion in my mind.

You get whatever you think out there.

[Blue Glitter Neon]

Hey, great replies all around and points to take in and contemplate.

Xanth, I was just going to tell you I started reading your book, and you have a cool and immediately accessible way to get your point across. I stopped though so I could try out the initial exercises before continuing and I've been trying "noticing" some.

Now, about that, you mention that when you do "noticing" you'll soon start seeing patterns, shapes, color blobs, curvatures and stuff after a while. I just wonder if these are the same things that unfold on our retina all the time if we close our eyes? You know, like that endless kaleidoscope that I guess is created from the physical stimulation of our visual sensory cells and then reported to the back of our brains and experienced by our consciousness as "sight". At least I have these all the time as soon as I close my eyes.

I reckon then that if the "noticing" proceeds well, these forms will become increasingly differentiated and gain in clarity etc?