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Kraig's system?

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Fenris

Hi Lysear

I am also working through Kraig's book, I have owned it for about eight months or so, before that my first reference to ceremonial magic ritual was The Middle Pillar by Israel Regardie. It makes sense that there are relatively rigid steps to take in ones development via ceremonial magic, and to me Kraig's system seems logical. I have had no problems arise from following the books guidelines and I am yet to read any criticism of the work at all. So I would say the book for me has been nothing but a good thing.

Best regards

David  

Lysear

Nice to hear about someone else who is following the system in this book. I have just reached the stage where I have bought my Water chalice and am begining to paint it, then I get onto the really cool stuff, the real grey magick! I also have been working for about 8-9 months, although somewhat dragging my heels!

How far through are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Parmenion

I love to see posts about Hermetics.I wonder Lysear, would you mind giving me a detailed run down of the book.I would really appreciate it.Thanks

Parmenion

Lysear

I'm sorry Parmenion, but it is a vast book, about 560 pgs long! I just don't have the patience or motivation to do that. What I can do is give you a basic rundown of whats going on in it, then you can do a search on the net and find something more comprehensive.

11 Lessons in the  high magickal arts is a comprehensive system of learning about the occult through a specific method, that of ritual magick. the book looks at many subjects, for example getting started on basic white magick rituals such as the lesser banishing of the Pentagram, Middle Pillar, Circulation of the body of light and the banishing ritual of the hexagram. Throughout the book you are asked to use a standard deck of tarot cards, which have many purposes, such as divination and meditation. I have only just gotten to chapter 5 so I cannot really comment on those chapters, but I do know from briefly flicking through them that they deal a lot with path working and astral projection, sex magick to a small degree. The book has taught me a basic understanding of the hebrew language and correspondances on the kabbalistic tree of life, such as the stones/metals/scents/archangels etc that correspond with each sephira on the tree. I hope this was useful to you, I cant really do any better than this.

Parmenion

Thats fine thanks Lysear. I was asking because i am currently working through Franz Bardon's "initation into hermatics" but im allways keen to find other material.Theres so much junk on the occult that its good to have something reccomended first.Again , thanks

Parmenion

pod3

HINDERED. Spritual developement comes from clearing the path to abilities, not intermediating them. You are attempting to use rituals to validate your right to your own faculties, but the mystery religion of the Chaldeans' has no more claim to spiritual energy than it does to electricity. Aproach this scientifically. See who can perform specific miracles on demand, and why. Listen carefully. If any witch can do this successully, the effects are not strictly limited by extranea.


Adept_of_Light

quote:
Originally posted by pod3

HINDERED. Spritual developement comes from clearing the path to abilities, not intermediating them. You are attempting to use rituals to validate your right to your own faculties, but the mystery religion of the Chaldeans' has no more claim to spiritual energy than it does to electricity. Aproach this scientifically. See who can perform specific miracles on demand, and why. Listen carefully. If any witch can do this successully, the effects are not strictly limited by extranea.



Dear pod3,
I don't think most major religions and well established spiritual organizations see the clearing the path toward the development of abilities as their main goal; nor do the holy texts of the majority of these organizations claim their way is the ONLY way... although it is obvious many of their students and even preachers become so enchanted with their own system they fall into this tunnel-vision trap. But such is not the claim of the truly enlightened.

When it comes to hermetics, or systems of magic(k), those who have seriously studied these paths will be able to explain that the main goal of their spiritual paths is not to acquire special abilities, but that rather they are a side effect - so to speak, of their spiritual training. In a few cases, acquiring what we deem as special abilities is a pre-requisite so as to be able to reach the next level of understanding. For example, the projection of the Astral body allows a student of magic to access other planes of existence where live non-physical beings who can teach you and impress upon you spiritual concepts impossible to communicate through our physical world.

Also, the purpose of rituals is not to validate one's right to their faculties. I would ask you to explain how you came to such conclusions on ceremonial magic? Moreover, if anything, the founding aspects of how of ceremonial magic works are actually firmly based on scientific principle. The principle that under the same circumstances of execution of a practice (where the same exact same steps are followed, the exact same amount of will and power are used by the magician) the same quality and quantity of results may be attained, over and over again.

Take good care,
Adept of Light
"First do what is necessary, then do what is possible, and soon you will be doing the impossible" St. Francis of Assis

Adept_of_Light

To Fenris, Lysear and Parmenion,

In regard to Donald Michael Kraig's book, it is a good book to read for any beginner magician because it is very simplistic in its approach. Many of core books on magic written in previous centuries often read like riddles or make references to so much information that the beginner has no understanding of yet that he is left nearly as clueless as when he started. The problem with this is that for the beginner it can be very discouraging to try to make sense of very abstract concepts written in much older languages whose authors so often either alluded clarity in their texts due to fear of prosecution or because it was their intention to only hint at the world of magic/occult but to not reveal any secrets to those who were not keen/worthy/intelligent enough to be able to see through the veils. In actual reality though, the mysteries are self-veiling, for only those with the right training, knowledge, and abilities may penetrate them. But getting back to DMK's book, he does a very good job of clarifying and extracting the basics of various aspects of a magic path. For this accomplishment he is worthy of praise.

But do not try to compare Bardon's IIH to DMK 11 Lessons. There is no comparison here. Bardon's system in my opinion is a far superior and direct approach to making progress in a path of magic; granted very few are capable of sticking to the practice for while the instructions are quite simple, being able to do the actual work and sticking to daily practice routines is a whole other matter.

DMK is at best a very good student of magical texts (as seen by the immense bibliography at the end of each chapter)but only a mediocre magician. By comparison, Bardon at the time of his writings was regarded at least as a very high ranking magus, if not a reincarnated master who wrote all of his books from direct personal experience, and not by grabbing bits and pieces of information from a slew of other magicians and their books as is the case with DMK. Granted much of the content and instructions in Bardon's book was not brand new and can be found scattered through-out many other systems or collections of books, but still, I challenge you to find any one book on magic that provides so much clear instruction as is the case with Bardon's IIH.

My point is, if you truly want to be good at something, it would be wisest to seek out the guidance of those whom have already successfuly accomplished what you strive for, as opposed to those who have merely studied the subject and had limited success.

Regardless, of my favoritism for Bardon's work, I do encourage everyone to read from other magician's works... because it will offer them deeper intellectual understanding and a better base of magical philisophy and the intricacies of occult science... But, when it comes to practical instructions, any other book I've read on magic only underlines the paramount importance and value of Bardon's IIH which to this day (for me) stands unchallanged.

Take good care,
Adept of Light
"First do what is necessary, then do what is possible, and soon you will be doing the impossible" St. Francis of Assis

Parmenion

Dear Adept of Light.

I whole-heartedly thank you for your post. You have given me the inspiration i needed.You see, what i did was obtain many books on various aspects of esoterism and was working through two or three at a time.I tried to do IIH and Astral Dynamics simultaniously but ,as you must know IIH is not a light read (now theres an understatement!)
Needless to say i got sidetracked and AD was what i finished.As i still have a large amount to get through i was trying to decide whether to go back to IIH or start something new.I even posted on a different set of forums (magic related) asking if IIH is worth the effort to read.
Your comments have re-enforced what i believed to be true myself so again, i thank you.I will now be making the proper commitment.

Parmenion

Lysear

Anyone on here study Hermetics or specifically those techniques advocated by the golden dawn? I am just interested to find out if anyone other than myself on this forum studies from a book by Donald Michael Kraig called Eleven lessons in the Higher Magickal arts? If so then what do you think about it? has it aided you in your spiritual development or hindered you?