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G3MM4
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2004, 23:36:09 »

No, the reason why in the Old Testament God was "cruel, made mistakes, and was very human-like" is because people saw Him in that way. In the New Testament, Jesus was simply putting the record straight. There aren't any mistakes in what Jesus said about God. Remember what I said about how people perceive God in different ways? Well back in the times of the Old Testament, people had very rigid views, simply because of the way they were taught about their religion, and of course, the way things were done back then comes into play here. That's why Jesus was cruxified, because of his views, his views and teachings were different to what religion was teaching at the time, and of course, His views were seen as a "threat" at the time. It's still the same now a lot of the time.

Quote
In one of the first cases in this book a woman wanted to stay on earth for her son, so he could have real mother. Why then guides were forcing her to go, and took her back only when they received such command from above?


In spirit, people still have their own opinions and views on what is best. Obviously the guides thought it was best for the woman to come with them, and of course, the command to let her go came from another spirit who thought differently to what the guides thought. This command may have come from God Himself or from another - more advanced - spirit.  Spirits are no more obsessed with "controlling" others than we are.

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The things said by Jesus and by OT God are very different.


They aren't. In the Old Testament, people recorded what they thought God had said. I keep telling you, people will perceive these things in different ways.

It's been a long while since I read the Bible, so maybe you could give me all the examples in the Old Testament where God was perceived to be "cruel, made mistakes, and was very human-like".
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2004, 21:06:19 »

As an example God told Abraham to sacrifice his son to test his faith. I know that it was only test, but isn't this cruel?
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2004, 21:06:19 »

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G3MM4
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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2004, 23:44:40 »

Well you know God works in mysterious ways. Maybe that was the path for both Abraham and his son. You ask if it's cruel. Well many things in life are cruel, but they are there for people to learn from. We won't learn if things in life are easy will we? Mind you, it might appear that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, but that depends on how you are reading the Bible. You need to remember that many things that were written in there aren't meant to be taken literally. A lot of things in the Bible are symbolic. I can't say for sure that the passage about Abraham sacrificing his son is symbolic or not, but do keep it in mind.
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2004, 06:21:20 »

You are right that maybe such experience was needed for Abraham. But if God would be being of pure light, it would not work in negative ways at all. I think that this part of bible was not symbolic, because it describes things, that are part of history for Jewish nation. I think, that 100% symbolic were only parts about creation of world, and about flood. If OT God and NT God would be the same entity, why it would not start to spread ideas of love from the beginning? You've said, that in OT people saw god as cruel. But from what I've read God manifested as cruel, and there is a difference.
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2004, 01:42:08 »

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If OT God and NT God would be the same entity, why it would not start to spread ideas of love from the beginning? You've said, that in OT people saw god as cruel. But from what I've read God manifested as cruel, and there is a difference.


Did you read about the vicar who preached that God was cruel etc, and when he had his NDE, that's who he saw, a cruel and harsh version of God? Then he went to ask God a question, and that's when God showed the loving and caring side of Himself? I think that answers your question.

I don't know a lot about the history of the Jewish. I don't have the answers for everything. But I do know that if you believe God to be harsh/cruel, then that is what you will percieve should you ever have a NDE or when you pass over. There's evidence relating to this.

Look within your heart. Do you really believe God to be harsh and cruel? Or do you believe Him to be loving and caring?

Sometimes God has to be cruel to be kind. The same goes for our parents. Do you recall any time when your parents seemed to be cruel, but in the long run, it turned out that their "cruel" actions were indeed the kindest thing they could have done for you? We are God's children. He's our Father. He's no different to any parent. Sometimes his "cruel" actions are necessary to our long term growth and wellbeing. He does this through His love for us.

I'll give you an example that relates to myself.

I was born with a severely twisted leg, it had no ankle, and both of my feet was severely deformed. I was also born profoundly deaf. Now, I could say "If God was a loving entity, then why did He create me in this way? Why did He do this to inflict suffering on me?". But I won't. It might seem cruel for this to happen to me, but in the long run, it's necessary for me to live my life as a person with multiple disabilities because it's good for my long term spiritual growth. It presents difficult lessons that I must learn. I don't think God was cruel to let me live my life with difficult circumstances because I know in the end I will come out of it more advanced, spiritually. What are the lesson I have to learn? Well, considering that I've learnt not to judge others by their status, race, sexuality, disability, colour etc, and I've learnt compassion, patience and more, so far, I've learnt so much in my short 22 years in this world. No doubt I'll have other harsh lessons to learn in my future, they will no doubt present themselves to me in their own time. But the point I'm trying to make is that God had me live my life in a deformed body because it will teach me lessons that are necessary for my spiritual growth and well being - and that is through love for me. Also, I don't believe that I was forced to undertake this challenge because I believe that I also had a say in what circumstances I had to live my life in.

I hope you can understand the points I'm trying to make.
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2004, 01:42:08 »



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TheLostOne
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2005, 22:31:04 »

hi again

lately i was asking myself questions like :
why would some ppl have psychic ability? (or want to develop it)
.. question seems right in my head, but for reader it is easily misunderstood.. hmm. i hope you unerstand me..

what is the purpose? .. i want to know "dimensionality" of this , because something inside has been telling me, that helping people is not It.. that there is something more?
i mean helping ppl is it, but its not all...

i really cant "figure" it out, please help me out.. thanks, bye


edit: that helping ppl is just part of it.. but not ALL
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TheLostOne
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« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2005, 13:44:56 »

heh, u guys are all so funny..
no answers, no comments on question? Smiley

u all know why, or nobody really knows why ?


its better to spam predictions etc...well its a path
bye
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CaCoDeMoN
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« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2005, 14:22:21 »

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why would some ppl have psychic ability? (or want to develop it)

Just for fun, and of course to gain money...
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G3MM4
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« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2005, 03:04:00 »

Quote from: TheLostOne
hi again

lately i was asking myself questions like :
why would some ppl have psychic ability? (or want to develop it)
.. question seems right in my head, but for reader it is easily misunderstood.. hmm. i hope you unerstand me..

what is the purpose? .. i want to know "dimensionality" of this , because something inside has been telling me, that helping people is not It.. that there is something more?
i mean helping ppl is it, but its not all...

i really cant "figure" it out, please help me out.. thanks, bye


edit: that helping ppl is just part of it.. but not ALL


Ok I'll do my best to answer this one, as I see it. I'm psychic myself so this is coming from my own experience.

As far as I can tell, everyone has the ability to be psychic, but for most of us, we have to develop it. Now, what makes anyone discover their ability or to want to develop it? I'll speak from my own experience, since I can only speak for myself in this respect. This is going to be a long post, so apologies for that.

I spent my childhood being able to sense spirits, although I didn't really realise that I was able to sense them most of the time. I used to live in a house where there was an old lady occupying it as a spirit. My sister who was very young at the time told me and my mother one evening that she saw "faces" looking at her in the spare room. I went upstairs with my sister and went into the room, only to find nothing in there. However, I never doubted that my sister saw what she saw, as she was genuinely scared.

My mother on occasions used to see and feel the old lady on the stairs. One evening, I went to bed, and my bedroom had wooden floors. I am deaf, so cannot hear anything, but I can feel vibrations, such as if someone slammed the door, I'd know about it because of the vibrations, or if someone walked around on th wooden floors, I would know because of the vibrations. anyway, I was drifting off to sleep when I felt footsteps right next to the bed. I opened my eyes and saw no-one there. I also felt a presence, although it wasn't a nasty presence.

On another occasion, I was staying with my grandmother, and my sister was staying with her father. My mother was alone in the house. That evening she told me that she went into my room to put my clothes away, and noticed that a lamp was on. so she turned it off. Then she went back downstairs. When she came back upstairs to go to bed, the lamp in my room was turned off. My mother knew it was the old lady turning my lamp on, as my mother had turned the lamp off earlier in the evening. So she asked the spirit to stop turning the lamp on. The old lady never did it again.

We used to live in an apartment before my sister was born, I must have been about 5 or 6 years old (the memory of this experience has never gone away). I was tucked up in bed, and had a scary dream about my father (who had died when I was a baby, he used to beat my mother and do dreadful things to her when they were married). He was chasing me with a knife, I knew he wanted to kill me, so I was running as fast as I could. I ran, and ran, eventually I reached a wall. I jumped the wall, and then woke up. The layout of my bedroom meant that my bed was directly facing the windows with the curtains drawn. As soon as I woke up, I saw a spirit come through the curtains, it was massive, and had a black face with a purple cloak covering it's head. I could feel an evil presence and obviously I was scared so I started screaming for my mother. Anybody could say that it was just my imagination, but I know for a fact it wasn't my imagination because my mother told me (when I was older) that when I had that experience, at the same time, my mother was in bed with her partner, and her partner told her that he heard someone whisper the word "rose" in his ear. My mother hadn't told him anything about my father, but in fact, Rose was my father's sister, who he was very close to. There was no way my mother's partner could have known this. So piece everything together, and that is a verifiable experience involving myself, my mother and her partner all at the same time.

I've had other experiences, but never thought much of them until my grandmother died in 2000, my uncle died in 2003 and my mother died in 2004. in the space of time from 2000 up to now, I've had so many weird experiences, and I discovered that I am clairaudient, clairsentient and sometimes clairvoyant. So of course, it was my big "push" to start developing the psychic side of myself.

I know now that developing my abilities is an important part of my path in life, and that all the weird experiences that I've had up to date was a way of making me aware of my abilities and of my path in life.

So my point is that some people have very developed abilities from an early age, and some others need a push. This probably is because it's all a part of their path in life.

Some people are not made aware of their abilities or their abilities don't come to light, maybe because it's no relevant to their path in life. That of course is just my opinion.

If you have a strong feeling that there is more to helping people (in your case) then you probably could benefit from trying to develop your abilities (whatever they may be, might not be anything to do with clairvoyancy or whatever, it could be something entirely different, only you can find that out) further.

I only wanted to explain a few of my personal experiences so you can see where I'm coming from in respect to your question.

Quote from: CaCoDeMoN
Quote:

why would some ppl have psychic ability? (or want to develop it)

Just for fun, and of course to gain money...


I hope - at best - you was just being silly, or - at worst - you were just being plain ignorant.  Sad
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« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2005, 09:49:27 »

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I hope - at best - you was just being silly, or - at worst - you were just being plain ignorant.

No. I was serious. I could add healing energy work here, but that doesn't require any psychic powers. Gaining wealth is not as bad motivation as people think it is. The wrost motivation for having psychic powers is the desire to control everything and be all-powerful.
My motivation to do energy work and meditation is not some kind of enlightment or merging with universal consciousness, but just to make my life more enjoyable and have fun in this life. Typically people believe in some sort of afterlife, and think that they'll find happiness there, but such assumption doesn't have to be true.
In my opinion several things are required to achieve happiness in this life:
-learning to control emotions and working to enhance personality through meditation(with personality problems like greed, jealousness, anger, depression noone will ever be happy)
-using energy work to remove negative attachements, gain better health and gain energetic healing powers to help others
-finding true friends
-having hobby/creating art/etc.
- and of course having reasonable level of wealth and good job(when thinking desperately on how to get money to pay bills no spiritual advancement is possible)
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« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2005, 01:48:12 »

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and of course having reasonable level of wealth and good job(when thinking desperately on how to get money to pay bills no spiritual advancement is possible)


Your last point is just materialistic. This is why I don't agree we do need wealth in terms of money or possessions. I think you'll find that some of the poorest (in terms of money and possessions) are the richest in what matters - love and happiness. I've experienced this for myself so I should know what I am talking about. That is why I strongly disagree that psychic abilities should be used for materialistic gain.

Some of the richest people in the world can be one of the most unhappy people. Money/possessions do not buy what is really important (TRUE love and happiness). I have heard of people who have great wealth of money, and they are truely miserable. I guess they can be miserable in comfort, not that it matters.

We do need enough money to live and survive, I am not disputing that. I'm only disputing the fact that without a good job and wealth, there can be no happiness or spiritual advancement. As long you have just enough to cover your bills, then there should be no problem with making yourself happy. Note I said MAKING YOURSELF HAPPY. You have to make yourself happy, and if you can do it without the frills, then kudos to you. If you need lots of money etc to make yourself happy then I would say you have a problem.

Worth thinking about, hmm?

EDIT: Btw using your psychic abilities to gain wealth from people, even if you hate their guts, is not a good use, and is "cheating" (for a lack of a better word). You're abusing your abilities imo if that is what you use it for. I'm just reminding you because of another post you made about your grandmother in another thread (wish I could remember which one though, might be able to find it sometime).
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« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2005, 11:45:12 »

First of all I would like to say that lots of the bad stuff said about God or this higher being I would like to call it is all made up by mankind to keep the general population from developing their own mind. I don't believe in any church or religion - I do believe that there is a higher being.

Secondly, it is always worth the effort to develope any kind of psychic ability.

Thirdly, I agree with what G3MM4 said about wealth etc. I come from a poor family. My mother had to work 2 jobs for almost 20 years in order to raise 3 kids on her own. I have never had supercool presents under the xmas tree - I got a pair of shoes, pants and a shirt, things I really needed. I played with stuff I have found around the appartement. We were all very close to each other and I had a wonderful childhood despite of being poor. I especially fromed a strong bond with my oldest brother who unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. Those are things you can't buy with money. And still my psychic abilities developed fine.

It all depends on the outlook on life and not on any material thing - being happy with the things you have and not with the things you want, which only hinder any developement.

This is my opinion.
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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2005, 10:35:06 »

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Your last point is just materialistic.
Not really. I've seen true materialism, and it is not about desire to have more wealth. It's about gaining wealth having higher priority than friends, family and everything else.
Quote
I think you'll find that some of the poorest (in terms of money and possessions) are the richest in what matters - love and happiness.
Maybe in UK/US, but in Poland being poor means having no money not only to pay the bills but even to feed the children. How anyone can be happy having to beg neighbours that hey lend some money for bread? About people with somewhat higher social status(but considered poor too): Is it possible to find any happines when working 12 hours per day in supermarket for 200$/month? I don't think so.
Quote
Some of the richest people in the world can be one of the most unhappy people. Money/possessions do not buy what is really important (TRUE love and happiness). I have heard of people who have great wealth of money, and they are truely miserable. I guess they can be miserable in comfort, not that it matters.
Because they don't know how to live. Wealth itself doesn't cause happiness, but neither does the lack of wealth.
Quote
We do need enough money to live and survive, I am not disputing that. I'm only disputing the fact that without a good job and wealth, there can be no happiness or spiritual advancement.
There cannot be any spiritual development, because without money you can't buy spiritual books, have computer and internet access. Also when working 12 h/day there's no time for anything, let alone meditation.
Quote
If you need lots of money etc to make yourself happy then I would say you have a problem.
I didn't say anywhere anything about LOTS of money. I've only said that some amount of money is needed, and certainly such amount of money cannot be gained by having typical job(at least in Poland).
Quote
Worth thinking about, hmm?
Definitely, yes.

Quote
EDIT: Btw using your psychic abilities to gain wealth from people, even if you hate their guts, is not a good use, and is "cheating" (for a lack of a better word). You're abusing your abilities imo if that is what you use it for. I'm just reminding you because of another post you made about your grandmother in another thread (wish I could remember which one though, might be able to find it sometime).
My grandmother is a very complex problem. I think that manipulating her by magick can be described as "spiritual healing", because she'll be cured from her obsession with money. The obsession that destroyed lives of 4 people and caused unimmaginable amounts of harm to others.
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2005, 10:59:34 »

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Thirdly, I agree with what G3MM4 said about wealth etc. I come from a poor family. My mother had to work 2 jobs for almost 20 years in order to raise 3 kids on her own. I have never had supercool presents under the xmas tree - I got a pair of shoes, pants and a shirt, things I really needed. I played with stuff I have found around the appartement. We were all very close to each other and I had a wonderful childhood despite of being poor. I especially fromed a strong bond with my oldest brother who unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. Those are things you can't buy with money. And still my psychic abilities developed fine.

Yes, wealth isn't needed for a good childhood, but you've said that your mother was working 2 jobs - did she had time for anything else?
Quote

It all depends on the outlook on life and not on any material thing - being happy with the things you have and not with the things you want, which only hinder any developement.

I nearly agree with this(not counting people who live in poverty). Uncontrolled desire is the thing that frequently destroys all happiness in one's life. I am happy with what I have now, but this doesn't have to mean that I'd like to have more. The most important thing is to not become obsessed with materialistic chase of wealth, because the end of it is always the same - with death person loses all he/she has owned and founds out how empty he/she was. For me money are just a tool to make myself and others happy and to create.
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2005, 11:29:28 »

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Not really. I've seen true materialism, and it is not about desire to have more wealth. It's about gaining wealth having higher priority than friends, family and everything else.


You don't make sense when you say true materialism is not about gaining wealth, then in the next breath you say that it's about gaining wealth, having higher priority than others. Make up your mind - is it, or it is not, about gaining wealth?

And just for the record, wealth isn't necessarily about money, it's also about possessions (in the context of materialism). So it's still being materialistic whichever way you look at it, be it possessions or money.

When you say about getting higher priority than friends/family and everything else, that is power. In my experience, power and materialism/monetery wealth go hand-in-hand most of the time.

And every time I meet a person who is powerful and wealthy in terms of money and possessions, all I see is a person who is so engrossed in himself, in when he can make his next million, in putting a front up so that he appears to have more status than others. That is not spiritual. People like that cannot develop spiritually in this way beause there is no room for development in their lives. It's all a pretence, an illusion. I've had contact with many people like this, and it's the same every time. And guess what? These people are not truly happy.

For example, my best friend comes from a working class family. However, his mother has had a good job, that pays well (just retired). She has a Merc, nice car, nice house, a rich boyfriend who has a villa in Portugal, and yet, she is not happy. She is a selfish, mixed up, over-emotional, judgemental person who has no regards for anyone's feelings, not even her own family, and she has developed some mental/personality disorder that she suffers from. According to my friend, she wasn't always like this, she only became like this ever since she let money rule her heart and her life. This is a classic example of what I mean.

Quote
Maybe in UK/US, but in Poland being poor means having no money not only to pay the bills but even to feed the children. How anyone can be happy having to beg neighbours that hey lend some money for bread? About people with somewhat higher social status(but considered poor too): Is it possible to find any happines when working 12 hours per day in supermarket for 200$/month? I don't think so.


What makes you think that the problem of poverty (extreme poverty) does not exist in UK/US? It exists everywhere. Yes, where I come from - the UK, there are people who are so poor, they live ont he streets or in hostels, they cannot support themselves or their families. It's not so widely seen, but it still exists. Ok, these people will have more stressful lives, but it is still possible to have spiritual contentment if you're destitute, but only if you are in the right frame of mind.

And, er, somehow I think you are not in the right frame of mind, or just simply inexperienced, since I know lots of people who work their fingers tot he bone for peanuts, and they are happy within themselves.

Quote
Because they don't know how to live. Wealth itself doesn't cause happiness, but neither does the lack of wealth.


I'd agree they don't know how to live, and that wealth does not cause happiness, when it comes to lack of wealth then I disagree (see my last point).

Quote
There cannot be any spiritual development, because without money you can't buy spiritual books, have computer and internet access. Also when working 12 h/day there's no time for anything, let alone meditation.


You do not need spiritual books or the internet in order to advance spiritually. You only need them for reference, learning about things that you are interested in. Books and internet can help, but they don't help to advance spiritually. Only YOU can do that.

Take my Gran for intance. She was spiritual, and  she never, not once, read a book on spirituality or used the internet. Her spirituality came from within herself, and from the lessons and hardships she had to deal with in her life. And her life was very very hard. Might I add, she had to work 3 jobs, raise 3 children and take care of her husband, and do all the housework, and she's never meditated. She never had need for meditation. When she was growing up, she had to help care for her mother who was often sick, do the housework (they never had machines to help, no washing machines, no dishwashers, no electricity etc), and she couldn't go to school very often. Her parents couldn't afford to buy food etc, they had to grow their own food, hunt animals etc so they could all survive. That's hardship, but guess what? They were all happy. My gran's mother was also psychic, and she had never meditated or do the stuff that a lot of people do nowadays in the name of spirituality.

Anyway you need to live your life in the way you think is good, deal with hardships and whatever life throws in your path, and learn from life to advance spiritually.

Quote
didn't say anywhere anything about LOTS of money. I've only said that some amount of money is needed, and certainly such amount of money cannot be gained by having typical job(at least in Poland).


I've never said that you had said that we need lots of money. I was just making a point.

Quote
My grandmother is a very complex problem. I think that manipulating her by magick can be described as "spiritual healing", because she'll be cured from her obsession with money. The obsession that destroyed lives of 4 people and caused unimmaginable amounts of harm to others. She's a cruel psychopath/sadist that doesn't deserve to live, so such manipulation can be considered only an act of mercy.


I'm going to be very blunt here (although I don't want to judge, but to offer my opinion).

It's up to your grandmother to sort herself out, and if she has caused that much pain to people, then she will have to face it sooner or later, whether she's still in this world or in the next. Karma works in many mysterious ways. You might not think karma exists or maybe you have different beliefs, that's cool, but trust me, she will get what she deserves in the end. However, it's not for you to decide what should happen to her, or what she deserves. If she is as bad as you say then I doubt someone like yourself could do so much "spiritual healing" AKA manipulation to help her anyway. I don't even think you should even attempt to do that, as you would be interfering with her free will. If she does not want to change, then she will not truly change. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with her obsession with money or whatever. Wink
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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2005, 18:58:30 »

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Yes, wealth isn't needed for a good childhood, but you've said that your mother was working 2 jobs - did she had time for anything else?



Yes, she had - she spent time with me and my brothers, fooling around - making us feel special and loved. Teaching us to be responsible open minded members of society.

She also had time to go to dances, which she loves to do (dance that is) or just sit down and read a good book. She had and has enough time for herself.
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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2005, 20:08:11 »

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You don't make sense when you say true materialism is not about gaining wealth, then in the next breath you say that it's about gaining wealth, having higher priority than others. Make up your mind - is it, or it is not, about gaining wealth?

I guess it's my bad english so you didn't understand that. I've meant that person is a materialist only when gaining wealth has higher priority than friends and family. When a person wants to gain wealth, but gaining wealth has lower priority than family, friends and honor - it's not materialism.
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When you say about getting higher priority than friends/family and everything else, that is power. In my experience, power and materialism/monetery wealth go hand-in-hand most of the time.

No, "power" is completely different definition. That is egocentrism.
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And every time I meet a person who is powerful and wealthy in terms of money and possessions, all I see is a person who is so engrossed in himself, in when he can make his next million, in putting a front up so that he appears to have more status than others. That is not spiritual. People like that cannot develop spiritually in this way beause there is no room for development in their lives. It's all a pretence, an illusion. I've had contact with many people like this, and it's the same every time. And guess what? These people are not truly happy.

You are right. But they are not unhappy because of wealth, but because gaining more and more has became a goal in itself for them. It's like chasing the illusion and emptiness.
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What makes you think that the problem of poverty (extreme poverty) does not exist in UK/US? It exists everywhere.

I know, but the work can be found much more easily. Nearly everyone in my town has some relative who works in US/UK, and if a person that doesn't even speak english can work there the situation is much better that here, because in Poland there aren't any jobs even for some people with higher education.
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You do not need spiritual books or the internet in order to advance spiritually. You only need them for reference, learning about things that you are interested in. Books and internet can help, but they don't help to advance spiritually. Only YOU can do that.

Take my Gran for intance. She was spiritual, and she never, not once, read a book on spirituality or used the internet. Her spirituality came from within herself, and from the lessons and hardships she had to deal with in her life. And her life was very very hard. Might I add, she had to work 3 jobs, raise 3 children and take care of her husband, and do all the housework, and she's never meditated. She never had need for meditation. When she was growing up, she had to help care for her mother who was often sick, do the housework (they never had machines to help, no washing machines, no dishwashers, no electricity etc), and she couldn't go to school very often. Her parents couldn't afford to buy food etc, they had to grow their own food, hunt animals etc so they could all survive. That's hardship, but guess what? They were all happy. My gran's mother was also psychic, and she had never meditated or do the stuff that a lot of people do nowadays in the name of spirituality.

It is possible, my mother spent childhood in similar situation, but somewhat better - they had a farm, so there was no problem with food. They were happy with their lives, had honor and were spiritual. But what about people whose whole family is under heavy neg influence? Without the specific knownledge their suffering cannot be stopped.
Without internet I would never get rid of neg influence and now with the help of other family memebers nearly all the negs in our family are destroyed. Also without internet I'd never gain any level of healing or magickal abilities and I would never fix my depression.
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It's up to your grandmother to sort herself out, and if she has caused that much pain to people, then she will have to face it sooner or later, whether she's still in this world or in the next. Karma works in many mysterious ways. You might not think karma exists or maybe you have different beliefs, that's cool, but trust me, she will get what she deserves in the end. However, it's not for you to decide what should happen to her, or what she deserves. If she is as bad as you say then I doubt someone like yourself could do so much "spiritual healing" AKA manipulation to help her anyway. I don't even think you should even attempt to do that, as you would be interfering with her free will. If she does not want to change, then she will not truly change. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with her obsession with money or whatever.

About Karma: I know it works, because I've noticed that problems always come shortly after I use magick for evil things, but situation with grandmother is different. She is very slef-righteous and she'll never learn anything from punishments.
As I said before the situation is very complex; she has feelings and seems to want to help others but she is under heavy neg influence, and starts causing harm at random moments. She was like this through her whole life. once when my aunt(and my grandmother's daughter) was a child she didn't want to eat (I don't know how it's called in english, rissole? cutlet?) so she put it in the bucket with (organic thrash from kitchen that is feed to pigs - also don't know english name for it). Grandma found it and force-feed it to my aunt to punish her. She is proud of it even now.
About free will: if a person don't even deserve to exist at all then she doesn't deserve to have free will too. Think about that healing as a tool by which karma will express itself.
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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2005, 20:12:12 »

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Yes, she had - she spent time with me and my brothers, fooling around - making us feel special and loved. Teaching us to be responsible open minded members of society.

So you should consider yourself very lucky - nothing is more valuable than good memories from childhood.
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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2005, 01:11:51 »

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I guess it's my bad english so you didn't understand that. I've meant that person is a materialist only when gaining wealth has higher priority than friends and family. When a person wants to gain wealth, but gaining wealth has lower priority than family, friends and honor - it's not materialism.


Yes your english isn't too clear but it's okay. You may well be right, just that some of us have different definitions of what certain terminology means (there lies the problem with using terminology).

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No, "power" is completely different definition. That is egocentrism.


Again, you have a different definition of "power". To me, wealth has the added problem of making someone think they have the power to do things to people, such as mind games amongst other things. Of course, not every rich person is like this, but I find that quite a lot of rich people fall into what I call the "power trap". Wink Unfortunately a lot of these people have massive egos to match their wealth. Sad

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You are right. But they are not unhappy because of wealth, but because gaining more and more has became a goal in itself for them. It's like chasing the illusion and emptiness.


Let's see, from what I've seen, usually wealth leads to the things you and I have mentioned (relating to wealth), so therefore in a lot of cases wealth is the root problem. If they were poor, I'm willing to bet they wouldn't be chasing an illusion which can lead to spiritual discontentment.

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I know, but the work can be found much more easily. Nearly everyone in my town has some relative who works in US/UK, and if a person that doesn't even speak english can work there the situation is much better that here, because in Poland there aren't any jobs even for some people with higher education.


That's nonsense. If work was easier to find, then how come I'm still out of work, despite hunting for a year since I left college? I am well educated and have good qualifications and yet, there are no jobs in the region where I live for me.

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It is possible, my mother spent childhood in similar situation, but somewhat better - they had a farm, so there was no problem with food. They were happy with their lives, had honor and were spiritual. But what about people whose whole family is under heavy neg influence? Without the specific knownledge their suffering cannot be stopped.
Without internet I would never get rid of neg influence and now with the help of other family memebers nearly all the negs in our family are destroyed. Also without internet I'd never gain any level of healing or magickal abilities and I would never fix my depression.


I know about heavy neg influence, it affected my family to a serious exent, causing the deaths of two members of my family. I won't go into details, but I tried to help one of them, but it was too late. Internet and books didn't help in their case.

In my case, I have depression, have had it for years. But I'm slowly beating it, not through the use of healing or magic, but through counselling, friends/familyand though my own spirituality, which comes from within myself, not from the internet or books. Ok, it might not work for some people, they will have to find some other way of helping themselves, possibly from books and the internet, but personally, your statement about the internet and books does not ring true for me. Like I say, I speak from personal experience.

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About Karma: I know it works, because I've noticed that problems always come shortly after I use magick for evil things, but situation with grandmother is different. She is very slef-righteous and she'll never learn anything from punishments.
As I said before the situation is very complex; she has feelings and seems to want to help others but she is under heavy neg influence, and starts causing harm at random moments. She was like this through her whole life. once when my aunt(and my grandmother's daughter) was a child she didn't want to eat (I don't know how it's called in english, rissole? cutlet?) so she put it in the bucket with (organic thrash from kitchen that is feed to pigs - also don't know english name for it). Grandma found it and force-feed it to my aunt to punish her. She is proud of it even now.
About free will: if a person don't even deserve to exist at all then she doesn't deserve to have free will too. Think about that healing as a tool by which karma will express itself.


It doesn't matter what your grandmother is like, you don't have the right to decide what she deserves. Just like no one else has the right to say you don't deserve to exist or whatever. Sorry if that sounds judgemental, that's not my intention.

She won't be free of neg influence until she actually helps herself. Until then, nothing you do will help her. Say you tried to rid the negs influencing her, and it works (temporarily), they won't stay away for long until she helps herself by doing the things necessary to keep them away. Negs need permission to influence or attach to someone (apart from really powerful demons, I'm not exactly sure how they work, but from information I've gathered, "regular" negs need permission of some sort, even if you're not aware of giving permission, again I speak from experience, I've experienced and witnessed negs at work from within my family). Apologies if I'm incorrect about your Grandmother, but from what you've said, it doesn't sound like Grandmother wants to help herself.

And I am sorry to hear your Grandmother treated your aunty badly.

My Mum (being under heavy neg influence) put me through a lot of bad things when I was a child. Yet, I'm not bitter about it. Mum turned out to be a wonderful person in the end, but unfortunately, after more than 20 years of being under neg influence, it was too late for her. She died 3 months after I helped her (but she helped herself a lot this time) get rid of these influences, but her death was a result of what these negs put her and the rest of the family though. Bear in mind, I'm not trying to make what you and your family went through sound trivial, because everyone has issues of some sort to deal with.

To clarify what I said about negs needing permission, and they won't go until the "victim" (for lack of a better word) helps themselves too, my Mum went through more than 20 years of neg influence, I tried to help her over the years, but the problem would not go, because she would not help herself. However, 3 months before she died, she helped herself a lot, and I helped her, so the neg problem went away. Mum allowed the negs to enter her life in the first place, although she wasn't aware she was allowing them into her life. I don't think she even realised it to her dying day. :/

If I don't make much sense, it's because it's late and I'm tired, lol. Smiley
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