The mystery of existence, an interpretation

[beavis]

A polititian who isnt stupid or an pillow-biter does not exist. The nonexistance of such a polititian is a fact, and facts exist.

[The Agent]

quote:Originally posted by beavis

A polititian who isnt stupid or an pillow-biter does not exist. The nonexistance of such a polititian is a fact, and facts exist.

Whats a "polititian"?  LOL your post here makes absolutely no sense to me? Can you be more clear as to what you are trying to convey? Do you know how to open up a sentence for a response? To spellcheck? Even if you were trying to mock me, or poke an argumentative hole in my last post, nobody would be able to laugh because first they don't even know what your saying.

[beavis]

Sorry I meant politician, somebody in politics in a government. I was making fun of them, because they cause me so much trouble. I was also giving an example of when nonexistance does exist. Something doesnt exist if its nonexistance exists. Its nonexistance can exist as an idea. The nonexistance of the square-root of -1 exists in the definition of square-root.

[bomohwkl]

From this propsed fact:

1.We exist (sense our surroundings in every way we can, think, memorize etc.)

let me characterise the most important NEED of our conscious existence (besides other physical needs)

1. We have the need to be HAPPY.

[Nayru]

I disagree, bomohwkl. Even when one is unhappy, one exists. The fact that we need it is of no influence on existance.

Btw, welcome, The Agent, I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. Nice theory, though I disagree on some parts. I love philosophy.

quote:3)"Non-existence" by it's very definition "does not exist" so there is no such thing as non-existence, existence exists because there is nothing else.

Lol, I thought about that this morning. It's like 'Nothing' and 'Everything'. Nothing, by definition, is something that Is Not. Everything, by defintion, is Everything That Exists. But, there's no Everything without a Nothing. But how can there be Nothing if Nothing simply Is Not (thus, does not Exist?)?
By the Yin Yang theory, everything has its opposite. Thus, without Existance, there would be no Non-Existance. Without Non-Existance, there would be no Existance. It's quite hard to solve this mystery by using definition. Instead, use the meaning of it. How would we know what Existance is or contains if there would be no Non-Existance? How would we know what Everything is, if there would be no Nothing? How could we possibly understand both Existance and Everything without knowing it's opposite? It does not matter we cannot reach the opposite (We cannot; since Nothing and Non-Existance by definition means It Is Not and Does not Exist, we cannot reach it), the only thing that does matter is that we understand what it IS; it matters that we KNOW it.

Since we KNOW it, Non-Existance and Nothing most certainly exist. After all, how could we know something that Is Not?

I really, really love philosophy. I know you can counter-agrue on that, but I'm also sure I could counter-argue your counter-arguements. Philosophy itself is endless too, without responses available for the human mind. We simply are too stupid to understand such matters.

quote:5) since there is no cause or pretext for existence, existence (or energy) is infinite, there is no end to existence, it is the fabric of reality, we have therefore, always existed, in one form or another.

I again must disagree. I believe everything has it's end. How do we know so sure that Energy cannot be destroyed? We can manipulate it, we can deform it and reform it, we can make it do our will. I'm sure it can be destroyed. Perhaps not by the weak hands of us humans, but I'm certain it can be destroyed. Everything can be destroyed, and since everything is made out of Energy, why would it not be possible to destroy that of which everything exists?

You also forget something. You keep your mind focused on us, humans. We have not always existed, though Time has. Time is the original creator of this all, whether you believe in God or not, that is simply true. If there would be no Time, nothing could progress. It is not us that has always existed, it is Time. We are not the source of Existance, Time is. Time created us.


Again, welcome. ^.^

[bomohwkl]

[xx(] Nayru, I mean, if one exists, one has the NEED to be happy. It doesn't mean "Even when one is unhappy, one exists"

Do you have the NEED to be happy?

Show me a single human soul on earth that doesn't have the NEED to be happy.[]

[Nayru]

Lol, I did not say we didn't NEED to be happy, I said that even without being happy we exist. It's not that because we're unhappy we suddenly vanish into Non Existance.

[beavis]

Ironicly, NEED causes unhappiness.

[bomohwkl]

[xx(] Funny."even without being happy we exist"
just having feeling itself implies your conscious existence.
[xx(]
My mind just find it hard to understand the statement, "Even when one is unhappy, one exists" becuase my mind just automatically assumes that " because we're unhappy we suddenly vanish into Non Existance"
Rather if one exists, they can be happy or unhappy.


"Ironicly, NEED causes unhappiness."
[] Rather, I would say, it is because of the activities involved to achieve happiness are not actually the way of finding true happiness. You have just eliminate other options.[]
Have cannot you find true happiness without trying to find it (which on the journey of finding it, you will find some ways lead to unhappiness). There is no irony. Only the lack of understanding of the nature of the subject.

[lifebreath]

A rock exists, but has no self-conciousness or emotional life. Mere existence is a rather hollow, impersonal shell.

When that shell of existence becomes a vessel for love, THEN we experience real LIFE and "become fruitful and multiply" ...

[Nagual]

quote:A rock exists, but has no self-conciousness or emotional life.

How do we know?  Some people (Castaneda's type) thinks the opposite...

[beavis]

If I hold the rock every time I get angry, for years, and later somebody finds the rock when I'm not there, they will feel a little angry and not know why. If enough thoughts are attached to the rock, they could interact and create new thoughts. If they are the rocks thoughts or not is only a matter of definition.

[lifebreath]

Forget the rock, already! Jeesh ... it's a metaphor, an illustration. So, the rock gets loaded ... getting loaded doesn't necessarily give one a sense of meaning, and it certainly doesn't imply conciousness! I got loaded quite frequently in my youth, yet was in a pitiful state spiritually and emotionally and I tended toward unconciousness! []

My point is that merely existing does not give one a sense of purpose, meaning or fulfillment. Serving others in self-sacrifice by becoming a conduit of creative, live-giving love does. The "husk" of existance becomes alive and purposeful when conjoined to the creative impetus of love. The aleph in the beth, so to speak.

That's why, for example, the revelation to Moses in the Old Testiment has to do with BEING - existence - and why the New Testament - the message of Jesus' incarnation, life, death and resurrection is one of love. Thus, Being is fulfilled in self-sacrificing love.

(Of course, now I've introduced another springboard into digression by way of the bible, Jesus, Moses and Christianity! [])

[babylonkiller]

"Everything can be destroyed"-Nayru

Then you obviously have taken the time to include Creation into your
theory?
are you saying Creation (itself, in it's infinite expanse within
itself)is able to be destroyed?
this cannot be, please explain your theory some more.
thanks.

[The Agent]

       Whilst pondering on the many questions surrounding life and it's issues, I thought it be relevant to post my findings, and how they seem to eerily resonate with observable truth.

       Frist of all I would like to say hello and introduce myself. I am a semi-novice energy practitioner and self-styled student of Robert bruce's "NEW" energy system. I bought his book a year ago, and his theories and experiences just astounded me.  What did it the most was his energy system, which extremely effective for me.  So far I have not been able to atral project, but have been very close on numerous occasions, each occassion ending abruptly because of my fear.  I hope I will one day get rid of it and finnaly leave my body, untill then I'll just train.

    Well anyway, as I began this topic I was thinking about the not-so-easy topic of existence and it's meaning.  I came up with this procession of logic.

1)We exist (sense our surroundings in every way we can, think, memorize etc.)
2)Everything seems to be transformed energy (matter is energy)and energy cannot be either created nor destroyed.
3)"Non-existence" by it's very definition "does not exist" so there is no such thing as non-existence, existence exists because there is nothing else.
4)In other words there is no cause or pretext for existence, existence is because it is the opposite of non-existence, whcih does not exist.
5) since there is no cause or pretext for existence, existence (or energy) is infinite, there is no end to existence, it is the fabric of reality, we have therefore, always existed, in one form or another


Whew![xx(][:I] There! "the mystery of life" [][^] was really not a mystery at all....it's just scary wehn you think about it though.

Any questions or input?