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satory

Hey guys...  I have been doing some research( more like reading) into anything what is considered beyond normal human abilities for a while now. I have gone through a lot of source materials ( some age old books/poems like the vedas,gita) and a lot of books by western authors.

I have been meditating for a good 5-6 yrs. I was not really regular, so there have been days/weeks when i havent. I had a few experiences which i can say comes close to OBEs described here, tuning in to a particular sound/voices, sleep paralysis ,lucid dreams etc.

So my understanding now - is that all these experiences were all experienced in my mind. The OBEs were constructs of my mind just like a dream, but seems very vivid and real.So the only thing  which was not normal is that, these constructs of my mind seemed very real!...but i was still physically sleeping and all this was happening in my head!!!So that sums up my "beyond the normal" experiences.

In anycase they were all just in my head and none of them even closely impacted my reality or was based on it. It wasnt in anyway directly associated  with the actual physical world. None of my experiences had any impact on the physical world( any tangible interaction).

This forum has a lot of posts about claims which seems really fantastic--- ex - telekinesis...telepathy!!, but has anybody here experienced it first hand or seen people do it? is there any  OBE which is a proof that it wasnt something in their head but was somehow related to the physical world( some direct interaction, to prove its not a construct of the mind ).

I hear a lot of various spiritual views too ( about life ,death ,universe, karma chi, energy levels,chakras  etc), but are these just what we understand as a concept or has anybody out there experienced it as a reality?ex - gravity can be explained conceptually , and can be understood conceptually or can be discussed conceptually, but experiencing it is different.We can believe in it  because of the experience and hence it no longer is just a concept/theory.

So are these metaphysical subjects/spiritual teachings just concepts, mental constructs/fantasies or are they for real?

Are they just innocent claims  or a lure for cheating/misleading the innocent?

Are they just theories to bring about a concrete definite picture of reality? and all it has to say is valid conceptually/logically etc for a discussion but not experienced/proven.

What is the truth ?
:?




satory

What i am also asking is  ---Are all the experiences talked about here just in our minds and are they just based on our own perceptions?
Can they be quantified? or are there instances of a non bias observation of an interaction with an actual physical object/entity  and these experiences( telekines,telepathy )etc? Is it reproduced at any time/instance at will?

NoY

What do you think?     


Orion-

I had a few obe experiences, and for me when I did that I just knew it was real and that it wasn't just happening in my head. No question, no doubt. There are also quite some examples of information that people got and that eventually was correct. My idea is that the brain is simply a bridge between your consciousness (you) and a world of matter. This body attracts our consciousness until we die, but we can focus out of it, this is what (astral) projection is. If you look at it like this, the experiences are not just happening in your head, they are real. Dreams/etc can look and feel as real, or even more "real" than this world.

Things like chakras are things you can experience too. You'll feel that they're real if you focus on them. Overall I think this picture of reality is pretty good for what information we have access to at this point, but obviously we can't explain everything. See earth like a molecule of a toenail, and the universe as a toenail. Can a toenail understand every detail of how the human body really works? No, even we can't fully understand it.

Why would they be a lure for cheating or misleading people? What is there to gain?

Calling something metaphysical makes it always sound like nonsense. It is the correct term, but please don't make that mistake. Imagine being in the year 0, and try proving the human body is made out of cells. Can you do it? Do you have the tools? No, and scientists will ridicule you if you come with that hypothesis. Science needs to be seen as a product of it's time, because it is limited to the technical knowledge of that time.

Close minded scientific people (not accusing you) always say things like "it's not rational", or "you can't prove it, therefor it's false unless you prove it's true". While the truth is, rationality is subjective and is mostly decided by where and how you grew up. People like to say there is no life after death because it can't be proven, but is the opposite proven? Is it really rational to think all we are is a bunch of atoms combined into a form? I think it was Einstein who remembered his colleges of this many times.

So, if you're not willing to accept this, then you should accept that you do not know, and you should be open to every option. You can try projection to discover things too.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

To light one candle is more effective than cursing the darkness.

satory

@NoY  - The OBEs i had were definitely unique and incredible. There is no doubting that! My only concern was that this could just be a creation in my mind and had no interaction/link to the physical world we are in as none of my experiences supported that. ( Maybe i am just not doing this right :-D ....how in the world do i get it right???? :?).So what i think is, there is definitely something in this( at the least some functionality of our brain), but its frustrating cos even after all these yrs i seem stuck. I guess i just wanted to know others experiences wrt this which they can claim to be true and not just go by articles or references to a third person being able to do so etc.

@Volgerle - Thanx for the link..its pretty good!!..I do believe OBE is verifiable. What about you? Have your experiences validated it?Looks like there is more to this then what i have experienced.....

@Orion---- Thnx, what u r saying is true. I totally agree that there is something about life which is inexplicable now, and we humans might learn about it eventually. These experiences we have could just be pointing us at that direction.
I agree even the mainstream science isnt concrete and is infact very fluid, theories/models keep changing and scientists are still learning. So we might all be in a very elementary state and to explain it rationally would be difficult now.
At this point i am ready to accept that OBEs are real, but what abt claims of telepathy/telekinesis  etc and certain OBEs( spirit guides and other entities) ?  to me, i want to know if you have experienced any of this or are they just wild claims made by others( who are always third party and never available to comment)? and are we all in this wild goose chase? hunting something fictional?.
I am saying there could be some reality in the OBEs as my experiences also validates it, but what about other claims in the same category. Again, this doubt is probably cos i havent experienced it, but its possibly out there or in me  :-D.....

blis

Everything is in your "mind" as you put it. Even the physical. When you look at something, when you feel, hear or smell something, you are not experiencing the actual thing. The light travels to our eyes and supposedly our brains create a fully immersive non-physical 3d environment that somehow resides in our heads. Our picture of the world is in our "heads"(if we really have heads lol).

Just because our experience of the physical seems fairly consistent and continuous doesnt prove its any more real than our projections. There is never any concrete proof of anything.

To me, everything I experience is real. I really experienced it.

I've had lots of experience of telepathy. The most common one for me is when people are struggling to remember something. "You know, um what's his name, ehh", I regularly pull names put of the air when I have no idea who they're talking about. Most recently it was Doris Day. I dont have a clue who Doris Day was other than some singer from the olden days. I do it with all sorts of words and names.

I believe when someone has a "whats it called" moment they instinctively send the word telepathically. It so easy to read a mind in that state that I think they have to be trying to send it.

I made a diabetic guy say kebaby once when he was having a hypo. He goes a bit mental in a hypo and says/sings whatever comes to his mind. I managed to telepathically slip the work kebaby in lol. He was like "Where the hell did that come from!"

My only experience of telekenesis was when I was first learning to channel. The day before I had asked my newly met guide to make any changes to me that would make it easier for us to communicate. I was in the bathroom squeezing pores before going for a shower. The moment I turned around to reach for the shower with the intention of turning it on - it turned on. Two levers, a hot and a cold, moved around 45° instantly. Went from fully off to fully on at the right temperature in an instant.

I've had other experiences of things moving but they werent being moved by me.

Xanth

I'm afraid you'll only ever be able to answer those questions to yourself, for yourself.
You'll find your answers the same way each of us does... through direct personal experience.  :)

satory

@blis - thats pretty awesome!! ...and in away what i wanted to hear.....so looks like i just need to continue meditating, and experiences will come my way eventually.....and its too soon for me to give up.

@ryan --- cant wait...someday i will be enlightened ! :-D


Volgerle

Quote from: satory on September 20, 2011, 04:21:45
@Volgerle - Thanx for the link..its pretty good!!..I do believe OBE is verifiable. What about you? Have your experiences validated it?Looks like there is more to this then what i have experienced.....
yes, it is the very last one on that page (moderate me :wink:), also a pretty unusual one (sth in between telepathy and reality creation), but valid for me nonetheless, moreover I had quite a few of clairvoyant/precognitve dreams (... and for me dreams are as real as OBEs)