New research opens window on the minds of plants

[Telos]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0303/p01s03-usgn.html

"If intelligence is the capacity to acquire and apply knowledge, then, absolutely, plants are intelligent," agrees Leslie Sieburth, a biologist at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

For philosophers, one of the key findings is that two cuttings, or clones, taken from the same "mother plant" behave differently even when planted in identical conditions.

"We now know there's an ability of self-recognition in plants, which is highly unusual and quite extraordinary that it's actually there," says Dr. Trewavas.

I'm reminded of the finding that people who sing to their plants have better success in maintaining their growth. Maybe the plant is responding to a basic emotional stimuli communicated through the harmonious oscillations of song? Who knows! But this is very wonderful and opens the doors to many relationships in biology and ecology.

[Edit: I just thought of something. In your mind, does this elevate plants to a closer position with humans? Or does this reduce humans to a closer position with plants?]

[patapouf]

Really interesting, this makes me remember an experiment we had to do in high school where different type of music were being played for plants. ''Hard'' music, such as heavy metal and dance music (the worst if I can remember) was not helping them grow like other styles of music. Smoother types such as classical was making the best results. Of course we can't draw any conclusion from that but it seems that they do react to a certain stimuli.

[chohan]

Thank you for the link Telos.

"There is still much that we do not know about how plants work, but a big part of intelligence is self-consciousness, and plants do not have that," says Heike Winter Sederoff, a plant biologist at N.C. State.

Well I'm not sure about "self-consciousness" but concerning consciousness I'm reminded of a portion I read in the book Far Journeys years ago. In the early days of  the Monroe Institute they were involved in the Explorer data which was channeled information concerning consciousness. One evolved consciousness which manifested referred to itself as Mirasol if I remember correctly. I took the liberty to type out the following. Monitor refers to Bob, Other Voice refers to Mirasol.

Other Voice: I apologize for being so late, but I need to thank you and tell you that I glad you received my message. If you would like to explore these levels, I would be happy to do so with you.

Monitor: I would appreciate it very much.

Other Voice: "As I have said to you earlier, plants exist on levels one through seven. They are on a vibrational rate, one through seven. It is the same pattern. Animals exist on the levels eight through fourteen, and when a person attains, when a consciousness attains level fourteen, it can no longer go any higher unless it is willing to change it's form of consciousness. Levels fifteen through twenty-one are what you call human life on this earth. When a person progresses to level twenty-one, he then has the choice of going higher or staying within the realm of human form, but he cannot go higher unless he is willing to give up human form."

Monitor: "Give up being human?"

Other Voice: "Levels twenty-two through twenty-eight are your bridge. They are your levels that you enter upon death. You are on level twenty and because that is an ascending level, you can enter into the realm beyond physical life, but you cannot stay there unless you are willing to give up your human form. Is that clear?"

Monitor: "That much is clear, yes."

Other Voice: "And then when a person or a consciousness - we are talking about consciousness - reaches level twenty-eight, the bridge is crossed, and from that point on for a consciousness to evolve higher, it would not again assume human form of any kind, not even as a learning experience. I will never incarnate again as a human - as another form of life, yes, but not as a human. The words are very hard because your plane of existence is not the same. Perhaps I can explain it by asking you to image seven of the circles, which would give you the forty-nine levels. The first three levels are physical matter as you know physical matter. They are your plants, your animals, your humans. The fourth circle is your bridge, you realm, your center for that overall plane. It is the time in which a consciousness can choose whether to go back into the lower levels or to transcend into the higher levels, and many consciousnesses do choose to go back into the lower levels in physical form. The upper three circles are the realm that in your consciousness is called the spiritual realm, and here much of the work is done. I could not help someone who was not on the eighteenth level very much because my plane, my vibrational rate would be different. That is why it is hard for me to help you with specific problems. I can give you ideas, but I cannot give you the direct guidance I could if you were on level eighteen. Our planes do touch since yours is an ascending spiral --- an ascending, what is your word for that? It is an ellipse. It is an ascending ellipse, and therefore I can cross and communicate with you but not as directly. Once I reach level forty-nine, which I will, I then leave all of this realm of existence. It does not mean I have reached the highest point by any means. It simply means I have left this group of seven. Imagine, if you will, the seven circles enclosed in an even larger circle upon which seven more circles are stacked, which is in turn enclosed in even a great(er?) circle. Then you can have some idea of what infinity is, it does not ever stop."

Far Journeys, Copyright 1985 by Robert A. Monroe

Whoa... consciousness, circles, ellipses, spirals, infinity. Dare I mention the multi-dimensional universe? Do you suppose a domesticated house plant would be more prone to make the consciousness transition from the first "circle" of physical matter to the second (animal) circle?

Edit: I just thought of something. In your mind, does this elevate plants to a closer position with humans? Or does this reduce humans to a closer position with plants?]

Plants closer to human but then again I see the glass as half full.

cheers,
cho

[Leannain]

telos i  love your topics

[Telos]

patapouf, you must've had an interesting high school!

chohan, thank you very much for that Monroe quote. It kind of reminds me of the levels described in the Urantia book.

Do you suppose a domesticated house plant would be more prone to make the consciousness transition from the first "circle" of physical matter to the second (animal) circle?

What a great question. I have absolutely no idea how to answer it. The images I have of first being a plant in a previous life, then being an animal, and then a human... are thought-provoking. However, it only looks like symbolism when you consider that our parents conceived us using the nutrients provided to them by animals and plants, and we grew up eating animals and plants (well, most of us ate animals), and that plants used sunlight, etc... so that we are all part of one gigantic mess of life.

[no_leaf_clover]

[Edit: I just thought of something. In your mind, does this elevate plants to a closer position with humans? Or does this reduce humans to a closer position with plants?]

That reminds me of something I wonder about sometimes, regarding trees. Largely applies to plants, too, I guess. The vast majority of them seem to give infinitely more than they receive, simply taking sunlight and nutrients and giving so many other beings everything they need to live, in many ways. Much or all of our food, shelter, and air to breathe come from trees and plants. They reduce pollution and give us some spectacular forests to enjoy. And nothing really returns the favor for them, except the Earth itself. And they're content to simply be. Sometimes I question whether humans and the plant world are even comparable in terms of advancement, but maybe that's just me.


Edit..

Didn't have time to say anything before but that experiment reminds me of an experiment they did with rats.

They exposed rats/mice to particular kinds of music for a few weeks and then had them complete a maze. The ones that had been listening to classical the whole while finished in record time, while the ones exposed to a lot of metal killed each other.

In June 1998, BBC Music Magazine published the results of a very interesting test conducted with laboratory rats. Before being exposed to any kind of music, the rats were able to run a complicated maze in about ten minutes. Then half the rats were played classical music, while the other half heard heavy metal, for a period of ten hours a day. The maze tests were repeated. Classical rats navigated the maze in a mere 90 seconds. Heavy metal rats took 30 minutes! As an interesting side note, researchers said the study had to be curtailed after the heavy metal rats killed each other!

[patapouf]

Telos, it was just a little experiment that (we) the students had to make in a biology class; it was the teacher's idea and you probably know that we do not read about such topics in a scholar book (maybe but in rare cases). In university, it is the same in relation with AP; I took an ''Intro. to Psychology'' class and they did not even mention the case of AP in the book but I believe it is primordial to do so. Only the teachers, if they want to, will talk about the subject (this shows, sadly, how ''scientific materialism'' is empowering the academic field).

[Telos]

Only the teachers, if they want to, will talk about the subject (this shows, sadly, how ''scientific materialism'' is empowering the academic field).

I was just about to say the opposite - it's sad that teachers have so much power in choosing what you learn and what you don't learn. I mean, it was fortunate that you had a teacher who allowed you to experiment with something unconventional, but it was still teacher-directed. What's even funnier is that what we're learning through scientific materialism should tell us that students do better when they are free to follow their own independent interests.

Sorry, I can't resist harping on the educational system. lol

[coolbreeze]

Intriguing. Have you ever read the Day of the Triffids? Its a very thought provoking book, about plants being superior to people.

I was just about to say the opposite - it's sad that teachers have so much power in choosing what you learn and what you don't learn. I mean, it was fortunate that you had a teacher who allowed you to experiment with something unconventional, but it was still teacher-directed. What's even funnier is that what we're learning through scientific materialism should tell us that students do better when they are free to follow their own independent interests.

That's ironic, funny. The sad truth is, most students just don't care, speaking from experience. The rat/ plant experiments are really cool though. Very intriguing topic.