A question that may annoy some people

[Astir]

I only know of one drug that will make you Astral Project, and that's DMT. I've never used it. I don't know of anyone here who has.

Your brain...all of our brains actually produce a small amount of DMT (for those who are not educated on the matter, it's a psychedelic.) this production is a natural occurrence. I hope you don't mind too much that your mind actually manufactures something you would despise and consider "a drug"...those of you who are disturbed by some of the content in these forums.

I do enjoy the irony.

I would never judge a soul here, call them weak or inferior for any reason...that, to me, feels more wrong than sliding a syringe full of heroin into a vein.

[Astir]

The brain also creates DMT (the most powerful psychedelic known to man) and research has possibly linked this substance to NDEs....

Hahaha. You beat me to it.

[David Warner]

Everybody here on earth have their strengthens and weakness. If we are to judge someone because they are a fire fighter, engineer, health medical professional. Just because they once used drugs and came full circle that it was not healthy, wrong, and hurt there loved one's. These are great people who are helping humanty.

I've come to know about drug recreational use and the out of body awareness and the two do not mix. I prefer to stay clear minded, focused, and harness the energy wisely.

For some drug users, its based on their religious beliefs just like the Indians that would pass the peace pipe and receive visions of the other world.

If you really want to be technical about it - is a drug, morphine is a drug, Ritalin is a drug. Legal or not, its still a drug which helps people because of pain, focus etc.  

You can't judge someone because they smoked marijuana, lsd, cocaine. What you should be judging is their heart.

tvos

[greatoutdoors]

My experiences, OBE, precognition, etc., have been totally without drugs.

Some native americans do use substances to induce metaphysical experiences. Others used (don't know if they still do) solitary journeys with little water or food to gain a spirit dream that gave them insight. Frankly, (though I am too lazy to do it,  ) I think the second group has the better idea. If you can get your body tired enough to just chill, then your mind has a chance to explore.

Alcohol is a drug. Tobacco is a drug. Sugar is a drug. If you don't believe that last one, fast for about 24 hours and then pig out on sugar and see what happens. The benefit to sugar is that it is legal and cheap!  

Philosophically, if you can afford it (no mooching off parents or friends, and no stealing) and it doesn't hurt anyone else, do what you want to do. Just be aware of the risk you take with the addictive stuff!

[jason]

I've never been into drugs.I've tried cannibis once-it didn't do anything for me.I smoked hash once, & got dizzy for ten minutes.

I prefer natural highs-it's all in the mind anyways, you just have to dig for it.

[The Present Moment]

Peru: Hell and Back

This is a great National Geographic story on the use of ayahuasca. The author has a life-altering experience while under the influence of the drug.

[Skeletor]

taking drugs to induce OBEs is like cheating in a game.

no.  taking drugs would not be "cheating".  that's like saying people who obe on their first try are cheating.  if it works, it works.  surely you should know by now that in the astral there are no rules.  how can you cheat if there are no rules?

that being said, using drugs to obe leaves a certain amount of uncertainty as to whether the experience was real or imagined.  performing it conscious and sober alleviates the uncertainty.

[mcbiggs]

Hello, new to the forum, yes I have tried drugs in the past, with mixed results, and no, do not recommend using them. Drugs can place your mind in a place/state your not really ready for.

[Leyla]

I think some of you are actually on drugs while you are posting.

jilola Please tell me what disease I have?

:WTF:  I was clearly talking about drug addiction. And that is most definitely a disease. Check with the AMA.

Astir - Your brain...all of our brains actually produce a small amount of DMT (for those who are not educated on the matter, it's a psychedelic.) this production is a natural occurrence. I hope you don't mind too much that your mind actually manufactures something you would despise and consider "a drug"...

Again,  :WTF:  How in the HELL, did my heartfelt defense of a cocaine addict get twisted into a attack against casual pot smokers?

Yes, it is secreted by an un-calcified pineal gland. This has been common knowledge since the 70's.  Don't know why you'd feel the need to educate me on it, since I've surely known about it longer than you've been alive.

I was a stoner myself for a few years back in the day. I'll have you know, I've campaigned, protested, and voted for Marijuana Legalization. Sure, you're hot to defend the cause in a chat room, but tell me what have you done in real life?

[Sharpe]

You know, i once tried magic mushrooms... And boy, i got to tell you, i am not doing that again. Hallucination seems fun in movies and books, but its more "powerful" in real life. I kept seeing faces on walls and chairs and i had to remove my world globe because Africa was filled with little faces that were laughing at me, also i drank a glass of orange juice. It didn't matter how close i looked in the glass, there were eyeballs in them. The positive things about it though was that music was a lot "wider" than when i used cannabis.
And mushrooms are more "mysterious" than other drugs, though hallucinating is the worst thing that can happen to a person trust me.
You don't know what's real and what's your imagination.

[falsetigerlimbs]

I have taken lots of drugs: weed, hash (although weed and hash are really the same thing), ecstasy, cocaine, heroin, morphine, magic mushrooms, LSD, salvia, not to mention an abundance of pills. I will never touch crystal meth, although technically I've taken it in the form of e pills.

None of these drugs caused me to have any strange paranormal experiences. In fact, I have a very high tolerance for mushrooms in particular. I have to take a lot to get visual changes, and with no hallucinogen have I ever hallucinated something that wasn't there.

From September to March I was smoking marijuana every day, multiple times a day, but have since cut down a lot. I still occasionally smoke marijuana, but I'm trying to limit myself to once a month or less. I also did cocaine in May, but other than that I'm drug free.

All the times that I have experienced paranormal events, I have been sober. And that is my main reason for wanting to try to stay sober, especially with my recent experiences with OBEs.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Actually, I think that drug users are weak and inferior people.

Watch that ego Patrick - statements such as yours have a tendency to come back and slap you right in the face.

Sarah

I won't regret anything I wrote. In these times it's "cool" and "trendy" to use drugs. Many people suffer because of that attitude. I knew that kind of people and drugs have ruined their lives. Unfortunately many people glorify drug using, and that trend also manifests itself in reality; young kids think that it's cool to use drugs and start using them.

In my circle of close people, we all share very negative attitude against drugs and I won't change my opinions on that matter. In fact, when I was younger, if there had been drug users, they would have been beaten properly. (not by me but there were several persons, who'd have done that). I will teach my children to despise drug users.

Do you take aspirin for your headaches? You are now a drug user.

[Doctorwolf]

Never taken drugs and i dont think u should start. If your body becomes used to taking drugs for OBEs then u may not be able to do OBE's anymore without the drugs. Its a risky process, but i think u should feel the energy urself without the drugs. Its healtier and ur mind can be more relaxed. It also helps the astral healing.

[WindGod]

a couple short stories from 30 years ago.....

this was a time when experimentation with drugs was common, books such as Carlos Castaneda's don Juan's Teachings, a Yaqui Way of Life, was popular, and people sort of had a spiritual motivation for the use of recreational drugs.  

Testimony 1:
A friend of mine described his experience with a drink made with the poisonous Belladonna plant. He explained to me that it was not like any drug he had taken before and that he found himself in a sober state floating in his room looking down at his body.

The poison of the Belladonna made him very sick and he never tried it again.
( Belladonna can kill you btw, so don't do it ! !)

Testimony 2:

Another friend, a very skilled craftsman and technician, was experimenting with using model making glue to induce OBE. (very sad and tragic)
His approach was technical and sort of scientific, with an assistant to take notes and monitor the session.

He described using a filter mask filled with an entire tube of glue. He would lay down flat on his back, put the filter over his mouth, then close his eyes and relax.

His assistant would remove the mask after a short amount of time.

He described buzzing vibrations and then flying and exploring his surroundings.

This is the tragic part, He says that after several successful "flying" sessions, his last experience was a vision of a dome above him. The dome shattered and he was never able to have an "OBE" again.

So , if we are trying to learn from others mistakes, then take heed and don't try to open the bud before it's ready to bloom.

[maverick7h]

@patrick... you say that drug users are weak and inferior people, etc etc.

Well let me tell you, you seem to have a very close minded view, and close minded people tend to be something else... ignorant. So please let me educate you.

Making my point, there are two kinds of people. Drug users and non drug users. The drug users tend to know many to most (depending on population density) of the other drug users in their immediate area.

Non-drug users are only aware of a TINY FRACTION of the drug using population. I don't think any study could ever really pinpoint how many people use or have used drugs. The number would be way too low.

Some drug users "fall off" and become the people you hate. Others continue to put friends, family, bills, and duties first - only using drugs in reasonable moderation for their enjoyment while still maintaining a high quality of living.

Whether or not a person does/did use drugs does not necessarily have ANY impact on the rest of their personality. They are who they are.

Basically what I'm saying to you and other drug-user-haters is, frankly, somebody you admire is a drug user, and you are absolutely clueless about it. Somebody you love is a drug user, and you have no idea. Somebody you work with is a drug user, and you've never noticed. With that in mind, try to be more open minded. To find such close minded people on a forum dedicated to spiritual evolution is quite a laughable thing. You people have no right to judge something you have little knowledge and no experience with. Judgement is such a huge waste of spiritual energy.

Some illegal drugs, in a controlled enviornment, can be very theraputic and beneficial to a person both psychologically (which is not to be confused with addiction) and physically. Even ecstacy has been shown to have massive theraputic potential in controlled scenarios (but let me say it can be dangerous, and how do you even know what you're really taking is what you think it is?) There are of course some drugs that should never be touched, but there are others that can be used "responsibly". As a general guideline, drugs that grow naturally and undergo no alteration before use (weed, mushrooms, even cocaine, to a limited extent) are considerably safer than drugs that have to be "made" (heroin, meth, crack, acid, etc). You could say (if you were Christian), that God put marijuana on the planet. The bible says everything God put here is for us. God definitely didn't put crystal meth on the planet. We made that excrement.

In fact, study after independant study of marijuana has not only failed to prove its dangers, but new benefits are being steadily found. Most amazingly, its an anti-carcinogen. At the very least, its health risks are dwarfed by the toxicity of our legal alcohol and cigarettes especially. We've known for decades, and seen, just how bad these drugs damage our bodies, and yet, no real (independant) proof can be found that marijuana has any such effects, nor does it leave any negative withdrawl effect, and to "overdose" on marijuana you would need to consume more than is physically possible, as calculated. Marijuana has NEVER been recorded as the cause of death for a person (though even fatal caffine-overdoses occur daily), it does not kill brain cells (alcohol does), and long term study of heavy, habitual users yeilded NO increase in lung disease as compared to non-marijuana smokers (see Volume 155 of the American Journal of Respiratory & Critical Care Medicine). Marijuana is illegal because of politics and religion. Nothing more.

As for the topic, I would say certain drugs might give you a little "boost" towards getting out, but thats only if you're already familiar with the process. Other drugs may rocket you into an OBE/astral experience, but you'll have no control. And heavy drug use might make it harder for you in the long run; most definitely, with possible the exception of marijuana. I'd still have to say a healthy body is the best body.

And, having tried several different drugs myself, I can tell all of you who haven't - having an OBE is by far a superior experience. I'd take an OBE over drugs any day. You should too.

[nwb]

all the obes i had were natural and drug free,  i did smoke some weed once and it made my dream that night in tunnel vision, as in its like i was looking at my dream thru a telescope.....that's about the only thing drugs did to me, i have had dreams where i smoked weed and in the dream i felt like i was high, but i really wasn't, which makes me wonder what all can be emulated in the dream world....i have been totally drug/beer free since 2004 tho..i put that stuff to rest.

[Vilkate]

That's interesting, because I have had dreams where I use drugs (usually LSD), and experience all its effects, although I have never used drugs or alcohol in real life.
Last time I had this kind of dream I got really high and had all kinds of strange hallucinations, and everything was floating, and distorting, and changing in all the colours of the rainbow.

[Vilkate]

Actually, not at all, although after this dream I wanted some more.  

However, all this information somehow inspired me to try salvia divinorum- but I probably won't do that. Something tells me it's not such a good idea... Dunno. I wouldn't like to lose control while "out".

[jilola]

I think some of you are actually on drugs while you are posting.

jilola Please tell me what disease I have?

:WTF:  I was clearly talking about drug addiction. And that is most definitely a disease. Check with the AMA.

The original quote who was behind your original comment on having a disease was

Actually, I think that drug users are weak and inferior people.

To this you replied with stating that drug users are not inferior but have a disease.
I think you do not see the difference between using and being used by drugs. In other words not everyone who uses a drug is an addict nor do most even ever become one.
Claiming a casual user is an addict is the same as saying the guy who goes for a pint on a friday evening is an alcoholic.

Doesn't really matter but my question still stands.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Leyla]

jilola - I think your drug use may have become a problem, because you're having trouble with basic reading comprehension.

I was obviously talking about drug addicts. Nobody else seems to be confused about that but you.

Addiction can happen to good people, from good families.

Then I followed with this:

I was a stoner myself for a few years back in the day. I'll have you know, I've campaigned, protested, and voted for Marijuana Legalization. Sure, you're hot to defend the cause in a chat room, but tell me what have you done in real life?

My question still stands.

[jilola]

I was obviously talking about drug addicts. Nobody else seems to be confused about that but you.

Trust me I understood what you intended to say. I just wanted to give you a nudge about not qualifying the pronoun "They" properly to refer to the addicts and not people in general.

What have I done? Supported research financially, written letters to editor and to individuals collected information and engaged in dialogue with people who have incorrect facts behind their position.
I'd say we're about equal in the doing department. I haven't been able to vote for legalisation as that has never been an option where I've lived so far. I'm sure in the future opportunities will arise. If not, I'll see about running myself.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

Edit: typos

[Vilkate]

Ok, what's with those drug dreams? I start suspecting that I am living two parallel lives, for last night I got some salvia divinorum in quite a lucid dream, I used it, and I got really high, a result of which was exiting my body through the dream. Nice.  :confused:

[Leyla]

I notice people are starting to tally up their OBEs. Should we be doing that? It seems questionable to me.

I mean, it's not exactly like a weight loss board where we're all trying to keep each other motivated. OBE is a spiritual experience and I don't think it's something we should compete over.

People might feel inclined to boast. Or even lie. And there's so much room for variation.

Which would count for more, an involuntary OBE, or one which you did deliberatly? What about a OBE where all you did was float around your bedroom, compaired to one where you projected to the astral and talked to a higher entity? Shouldn't quality be worth more than quantity? What if someone has 10 "floating around the room" OBEs to someone else having 1 really amazing "Secrets of the universe were revealed to me" one.

And don't get me started on the endless debates which could take place over "What is an OBE?" Some people claim a dream is a "form" of OBE.

Plus, I think it would be too much of a pain in the butt for me to comb through my posts and try to add up how many I've had over the years.

[Vilkate]

Well, but if people are experiencing something new to them, then I think it is completely normal if they feel excited about it and want to share their sensations with others. Or isn't it?

[Leyla]

Of course. That's what this board is for.