Anyone astral project regularly yet believes it's all in the mind, or use to?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Anyone astral project regularly yet believes it's all in the mind, or use to believe that way for a long time while projecting? Obviously even everything we experience here is in the mind. So you get my point. Also can you share how long you held on to the it's all in the mind notion?

Thanks, peace.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
You are in your mind, as YOUR mind is YOU. Your mind isn't in your body but you are as long as you are alive within it.
Understand that above.
Once you accept the above read many posted experiences. Some are gamelike others show the future before it happens in detail. On occasion 35 years beforehand.
There are posts telling of places and people never actually travelled to, yet, the practioner has astrally travelled to this place beforehand and knows the place well.
Find these posts, theres thousands of them all over.
Go back and answer your own question.

[TheBest55x]

There a many big lucid dreaming forums .Most of the people there  regulary doing lucid dreaming and sometimes ap too, Most of the people there think that all is in your brain and laugh about the fact that they really leave their body.

[Volgerle]

There a many big lucid dreaming forums .Most of the people there  regulary doing lucid dreaming and sometimes ap too, Most of the people there think that all is in your brain and laugh about the fact that they really leave their body.

which shows how "brain"-washed   by our materialist education system we have already become  

and this really led to the fact that "we" as mainstream society do not even question or "think" about how utterly ridiculous and illogical the HYPOTHESIS is that consciousness arises from the brain, because it is 'repeated' all over again by the pseudoscientific establishment with a clear agenda, so it is repeated and repeated to the pupils and students and later via the media that most of us with no doubt BELIEVE it and (that's the irony) repeat it to themselves and others all over again (like the delusional people in LD forums... )

Icke on REPEATERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VoF3u1z4kw
.... although with a more broader view, what he says here about media, "education" and society hits the mark for me

[Steel Hawk]

The true answer is that it's a matter of belief, whether it's "just" in the mind or if it's "real" is a choice. Even after all I've seen I know it's possible that it is all due to a physical reason. I also know it's possible that it's not. What do I believe is the actuality? I don't know, it doesn't matter to me. My reality is it feels real and I experience it as outside of myself so for me it is. The actuality is unknowable. It's like pondering what real is, or if reality is really happening or if it's just a dream in the mind of God or a thousand other possibilities.

Part of a letter I wrote to neuroscientist David Eagleman, author of Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain:

You wrote about Anton's syndrome, a disorder where stroke renders a person blind but they still believe they can see. And in fact they do see but that which they see is completely generated internally by the brain. And on Donald MacKay's theory that the visual cortex is fundamentally a machine whose job is to generate a model of the world. That the cortex sends its predictions to the thalamus, which reports on the difference between what comes in through the eyes and what was already anticipated. The thalamus sends back to the cortex only that difference information.

Basically it's possible for the brain to generate the experience of an OBE, in fact in normal waking life our brain constantly fills in gaps in our vision. It's really quite amazing and I highly recommend his book and the general study of neuroscience.

A common statement is that if someone can see a symbol in a box or describe an event or location that they should have no knowledge of but experienced it in an OBE then that proves it was "real". This isn't necessarily true. We are capable of remote viewing, or even accessing the collective unconsciousness and it's possible our minds are just pulling this information else where and our subconsciousness interrupts this  information and generates the experience. Just about everything that can be experienced in "real" life or an "OBE" can be skeptically dismissed. Several advanced APers have said that your just shifting focus instead of actually leaving your body.

But... to say that it's definitely just a product of the brain is arrogant.

The reality for me is these experiences are as real as real life, there's no difference in quality like there is for lucid dreams or even normal dreams. When I first started having OBEs and projecting it was so "real" that I didn't realize that it wasn't part of normal reality, I thought I was still "in" my body. Even many years later I still don't know half the time. The fact that I experience leaving my body and it comes naturally wired in doesn't make much sense to me if it's just a product of my brain. It leads me to believe that there is more to me than I know.

I think really what you and I define as "me" is a very very small thing compared to the greater you. The "me" that most of us are doesn't control digestion or breathing the beating of the heart, etc, we are so limited and weak. So I don't know if when I die that small "me" will exist I only hope to merge with the greater "me". And it doesn't matter to me whether or not OBE/AP is real as the experience is as real as this is. If nothing else it's the ultimate virtual reality beyond any technology we have designed for exploring the vast infinite universe of the "big me"'s consciousness.

It is a truly magical world beyond any experience that can be imagined and there is truly nothing in the world that compares to the awe and reverence it places in my soul. Nothing greater can be experienced in this world without OBE/AP it is the key. And it is worth the dedication and time it takes to master, even if it takes you years, it's worth it. It's better than sex, it's better than drugs, it's a mind changing game. And you can never dive down the rabbit hole deep enough with only 100 short years.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
The brain fills in the gaps, interesting point when referenced to hypnosis. A suggestion made that you dont see a person infront of you from a book I read circa 1900 (Houdini possibly), the hypnotised person could see and read engravings on a pocket watch that was pressed against the person that was made invisible to him through the body.
Its in one of my books, Ill eventually find it...
The comment on being wired this way seems applicable to a few. Those natural to AP who have had experiences since their earliest memories from various posts  don't get the ubiquitous vibrations, a reported wasted energy side effect.
If this effect was in the mind I'd expect more reported symptoms similar in effect for a myriad of neurological disorders. These appear to those practitioners of AP who are in the introductory stages of development. There may be cases but none generally known to my limited knowledge.
Interesting...

[catmeow]

Great post Steel Hawk.

[todd421757]

The only way you are going to prove to yourself not all projections are in the mind is to practice projecting while the physical body is awake. These are the most realistic projections. But they are hard to achieve success with. They take a lot of willpower and thought control.

The easiest way to project is to do it upon waking in the early morning hours without moving and then go into a projection. But these projections tend to leave doubt whether they are in the mind or outside.

I see some on here just want to have one projection so they can prove that OBE's are real. That is a completely fine goal for some. If that is your goal, just practice for an OBE in the middle of the day or immediately upon retiring for the night while maintaining your awareness during the transition out of body. And end the OBE after a few seconds, so you have a complete memory of it.

[Xanth]

That term "realistic projections" really bug me... LoL

Calling a projection experience "realistic" has the connotation that you don't believe it's "real" to begin with.  Of course it's realistic.  It is REAL! 

You're saying that it is "almost" as real as compared to this physical reality experience... when in actuality, it's every bit as real.  Anything you can experience is "real".

Perhaps a new way of describing it needs to be created (agreed upon?  LOL), because everything is *real*. 
Anything within the scope of your experience, be it physical or non-physical (terms, which are only a point of view anyway) is real.  LoL

Sorry... just a pet peeve... please continue.  >.>

[todd421757]

Realistic = a physical-like experience

This is the definition society uses. Not that we should adopt that definition here. All experiences are technically realistic. But for a newbie they usually want a physical like projection to prove it is a real phenomena in their physical life system.

[NoY]

Xanth is right what we "know" sets us back years

:NoY:

[ForrestDean]

Realistic = a physical-like experience

This is the definition society uses. Not that we should adopt that definition here. All experiences are technically realistic. But for a newbie they usually want a physical like projection to prove it is a real phenomena in their physical life system.

Hmmm, interesting.  They may choose otherwise once they have a fully conscious, fully lucid projection experience that is beyond explaining in words.  I have had many projection experiences that were much more solid, much more vivid, and therefore perceivably and incredibly much more "real" than the physical reality.  The physical reality can seem dim, thick, sluggish, and dreary by comparison.

[Szaxx]

Exactly!
ForrestDean hits the bell.

[Lionheart]

Plato said...

"How can you prove whether at this moment we are sleeping, and all our thoughts are a dream; or whether we are awake, and talking to one another in the waking state?"

[Kirkland]

We take a lot of things for granted for instance how does one know whether everyone else around them are conscious beings instead of some super smart virtual ai? So with that in mind I'll bring up something Thomas Campbell says in his book which is not to take his word as truth but to explore the non physical reality yourself.

[Steel Hawk]

...snip...much more "real" than the physical reality.  The physical reality can seem dim, thick, sluggish, and dreary by comparison.

You ever feel like your standing between two worlds if not more? Lately my reality seems to be splitting. I can feel my soul sometimes, I don't really know how to describe it. Whenever I think something and my soul is "happy" I get a rush of energy over me that feels like bliss. Like hey there kid you got it right here's some candy...

Also the astral (I don't know what else to call it) seems merged into my physical memories... so what I mean is Joe Average Person has memories which define him and they're all of human events. Yet the more I'm in the "there" the more my "now" memories interweave with "there", it's almost as if I'm merging with both realities at least in my mind. Before if I had an OBE/AP I would compartmentalize it, but now it seems like going to the grocery store and part of "real" life.

I don't know how to explain it. It's as if my dreams have the same significance as the "here now". Like my mind is integrating them as if they happened in my life like a physical experience would do.  Never had this happen to me before. Maybe I been pushin too long.

[Steel Hawk]

Ugh typos.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Sounds familiar to me. Eventually you'll split, its still you but one fits in with the physical and the other you (multiplexed), the far superior one, fits in with all thats non physical. It has to happen, theres two different laws of existance (understatement). The physical is set in stone, the other, well it depends on where you are (multiplexed). You'll intuitively know what applies to your environment. It will take more than a few outings to notice this.
Its progress...

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Thanks you guys for the replies. I thought nobody was answering since I was not getting any email updates to new replies. Anyway thanks again.

[TheBest55x]

I found that post on wikpedia about nde and obe. What do you think about that explanation.

I would be glad to see somebody add a mention about how some studies have shown that such dissociative substances as ketamine and PCP trigger experiences similar to those of near-death experiences, including out-of-body experiences. This article has already come close to it by citing works where the fact is mentioned. Everything Is Numbers (talk) 12:20, 20 July 2012

Out of body experiences are already explained and understood. Good literature to the topic ´lucid dreaming´ even offers instructions for those experiences; included flying to remote places and movement through doors/walls. And experiments demonstrate that OBEs are only a mental construction of our mind: see e.g. body swap illusion, rubber hand illusion.

Explanation of OBEs: WE are a virtual simulation (like an avatar) - we are a mental creature which is created by our mind/brain. By the perception of our physical body (kinesthesia), by vision and the sense of equilibrium and with contact to our environment we feel us then as a real person in a real body. But when the contact to the physical body is disturbed (e.g. during sleep, or with drugs), then the brain is free to send the virtual avatar wherever it will - then we have the illusion to move out of the body/to fly. But in reality the brain can use only the contents/knowledge of the own memory, to send us away. In Dr. Moody´s book ´Life after Life´, chapter ´Out of the Body´, he used the term ´spiritual body´ - this is the same as ´avatar

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

IMO if astral projection/OBE looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. I think even if the most hardcore skeptics started having OBE's every night, then over time they would eventually come to accept astral projection/OBE's just as real and maybe even more real than everyday life here.