Anyone have success despite adhd?

[Kree]

I've been trying to phase for about 5 years with no success, only a few LDs. I think the reason is because I have adhd and it feels like I'll never be able to phase because of it. I used to be obsessed with it but have almost given up as I can't focus on something that isn't stimulating. I mean, even video games and movies aren't stimulating enough for me anymore so how can I be content with focusing on the breath?

Wondering if it's even possible with the condition.

[Phildan1]

Pardon me if I don't accept the existance of a condition called ADHD. Most of us have attention deficit lol, this world is about that. Some of us, like me or you like to move on to the next thing because the previous one is boring. Our individual self is like that. Accepting that we have any condition is one thing in a brainwashed society but the other thing is that you are projecting in dreams also when you fall asleep. I guess you know it already from LD's. Your intent just needs to be more focused and that's all. I can't project after 2,5 years also, I admit because I can't focus so much. It starts to be boring or I tend to be more tired most of the time than it needs it. Just don't give up.

My method is this: first I need to eliminate the thought noise, listening to music for an hour. Mostly just before sleep. Just in the darkness, music in your ears, that's all, random tracks. Then do it. If you are bored, kick it up with it or with other tools. It takes more time if you tend to just lose focus. We are not the same lol. Some people can project since decades, mostly from childhood without any difficulty, they are natural imaginers.

Maybe my thoughts will help in making an order of your problem.

[Nameless]

Our minds wander when we are bored that's totally natural and happens to those without the label too.

You say you can't focus on something that is not stimulating. Wrong focus. Focus on whatever takes you away.

[Xanth]

I'm 110% with Phildan on this... ADHD doesn't exist.  It's an excuse for big pharma to sell you medication and make BILLIONS of $$$.
First, stop identifying yourself with ADHD... you'll NEVER get past it unless you do this.  Second, focus yourself when you're working on tasks.

"BUT I CAN'T FOCUS!" people say...

BS... you can, you CHOOSE not to.  Stop TRYING to focus, and FOCUS!! 

My god, humanity has fallen so far...

[Kree]

I'm 110% with Phildan on this... ADHD doesn't exist.  It's an excuse for big pharma to sell you medication and make BILLIONS of $$$.
First, stop identifying yourself with ADHD... you'll NEVER get past it unless you do this.  Second, focus yourself when you're working on tasks.

"BUT I CAN'T FOCUS!" people say...

BS... you can, you CHOOSE not to.  Stop TRYING to focus, and FOCUS!!  

My god, humanity has fallen so far...

wow, that might be the one thing I disagree with you on. I think of it like this, some people have minds which are organised or low entropy, such people are good at logic, math and getting stuff done, and some people have less organised minds which is useful for getting lots of ideas and being creative, it's a spectrum, someone diagnosed with adhd is just someone whose mind is so unorganized that it negatively impacts life.

People who say it's not real think so because everyone has issues focusing sometimes. adhd isn't an issue about focusing, that's just one of the symptoms. It's a chronic shortage of dopamine which causes people to seek out stimulation all the time, this often comes out in behavior such as fidgeting, non stop talking, desire to run or climb, walking in circles. If something doesn't offer enough dopamine another source will be looked for, for example, if I'm talking to someone about a low interest topic I will have internal dialogue with myself about something more interesting, this causes me to miss out on what they say and it's not something I do on purpose. Most movies don't provide enough stimulus so I have to take breaks to listen to music. Reading text longer than a few sentences is difficult as that's not a very stimulating activity, I've even had to reread your comment maybe 6 times. My mind works significantly better while I'm walking in a circle, that's not normal, but the added stimulus from motion provides me with a bit more dopamine which makes me closer to normal.

If autism wasn't as obvious to other people, you wouldn't believe it either. "Stop TRYING to be normal, and be normal!!"
There's so much research on this, there are physical brain differences which can be seen on brain scans.

BS... you can, you CHOOSE not to.  Stop TRYING to focus, and FOCUS!!  

Literally, my eyes are forcing shut and I feel like I'm falling asleep within 1 minute, and that's as good as it gets. Most of the time I'd just start having conversations with dream characters about how I'm supposed to be meditating right now.

Our minds wander when we are bored that's totally natural and happens to those without the label too.

You say you can't focus on something that is not stimulating. Wrong focus. Focus on whatever takes you away.

Then focusing on the breath, a mantra, sounds, blackness in the eyelids, etc. are the wrong focus.
All that's left is visualization, but so much effort is required just to visualize and think of what to visualize. I've tried it many times for as long as an hour. Kind of hard to relax into it with all that effort.
A simple visualization of just free-falling (I think szaxx mentioned it) would seem ideal but constantly imagining the sensation also gets tiring and the monotony makes it boring, and that's more of a phasing technique than a meditation.
Damn, out of options.

[Nameless]

Thanks Kree for adding some insight into ADHD. For some I do believe it is a label, for others simply a fact of life. Part of what you said resonates with me,

"if I'm talking to someone about a low interest topic I will have internal dialogue with myself about something more interesting, this causes me to miss out on what they say and it's not something I do on purpose."

Totally get you on that. So here is an idea that might help but it's only an idea. It's worked for me so it might work for you. You have more options than just visualization. You said it here,

"Most of the time I'd just start having conversations with dream characters about how I'm supposed to be meditating right now."

That's it, that's your ticket or at least give it a try. Focus on an interesting conversation, doesn't matter if it makes sense and you don't need to visualize anything. Use your other senses, in this case hearing. If visuals do come it's okay.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

[Kree]

Thanks Kree for adding some insight into ADHD. For some I do believe it is a label, for others simply a fact of life. Part of what you said resonates with me,

"if I'm talking to someone about a low interest topic I will have internal dialogue with myself about something more interesting, this causes me to miss out on what they say and it's not something I do on purpose."

Totally get you on that. So here is an idea that might help but it's only an idea. It's worked for me so it might work for you. You have more options than just visualization. You said it here,

"Most of the time I'd just start having conversations with dream characters about how I'm supposed to be meditating right now."

That's it, that's your ticket or at least give it a try. Focus on an interesting conversation, doesn't matter if it makes sense and you don't need to visualize anything. Use your other senses, in this case hearing. If visuals do come it's okay.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

Thanks, that actually does help, haven't thought of that. I'll try it, hopefully the drowsiness won't affect it too much.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

"Wondering if it's even possible with the condition."

I've thought about this question a lot myself, also being a person with a dopamine disorder. And also going many years without a modicum of success in the realm of phasing.

I'm not going to say its impossible, but the reality is that it might be far more difficult to achieve than it is for someone with "normal" brain chemistry. Brain chemistry can make someone a natural at projection, drugs that increase focus can make anyone a natural in my experience.

It is incorrect to say that dopamine disorders are the same as normal boredom and that trying harder is an easy solution. It is true that dopamine disorders are more common today due to technology. A brief example being that an animal with low dopamine cannot try to eat food in front of its face to save itself from starvation, it is difficult to imagine a greater motivation.

My new hypothesis is that the secret to success for dopamine disorders, and this extends to normal people with modern habits too, is not only to try harder at projection or endlessly search for the holy grail technique. The dopamine disorder itself must be addressed as a root cause of the problem.

The dopamine disorder has implications in spirituality I feel, and this is backed up by the book "Why Buddhism is True". It makes sense that low dopamine makes one predisposed to addiction and also prone to pursue activities and habits involving high stimulation.

Looking back at my own habits and pursuits, although I was unconscious of the fact, they have been driven by dopamine disorder. Sometimes for the better, we seek rewards when others are satisfied to watch TV. Sometimes for worse, we cannot stop thinking about e-sports at a "boring" social event.

It might just be that temperance is the answer. If one is unable to focus on phasing, is it because of the indulgence in other stimulus in regular life? If one could become sober, one could focus, and then the positive aspects of a dopamine disorder can be harnessed, the motivation to achieve.

One last thought that has been on the front of my mind since the first time I imagined what the experience of astral projection would be like - it is dangerously stimulating to the point of losing interest in this reality altogether. I have always felt that my access to conscious projection is deliberately limited because the experience is too addictive for me.

It is theorized by some that projection is like an extra curricula activity, it is beyond the prototype for the physical reality experience, and will only be permitted when the probability of benefits to the individual is high. Are we addicted to the idea of projection and would we become addicted to the reality of the experience? The truth is that I cannot imagine how full control projection is not the most stimulating experience possible for a human, and that scares me.

[Lumaza]

It might just be that temperance is the answer. If one is unable to focus on phasing, is it because of the indulgence in other stimulus in regular life? If one could become sober, one could focus, and then the positive aspects of a dopamine disorder can be harnessed, the motivation to achieve.

Temperance is the answer. But it also the result or "effect" of successful "outings". It is one of the many positives that align themselves to meditation in general.

I have used  wait and see, blank mind techniques and also have used more "proactive" techniques, like the ones  found in my Doorway technique in the stickies. I have found success with both of them. But I enjoy the proactive ways better. They are much more enjoyable.

[Kree]

It might just be that temperance is the answer. If one is unable to focus on phasing, is it because of the indulgence in other stimulus in regular life? If one could become sober, one could focus, and then the positive aspects of a dopamine disorder can be harnessed, the motivation to achieve.

So in other words, dopamine receptor upregulation. I've kind of tried that but to have a noticeable impact you'd have to quit all high dopamine activities which isn't really an option. An alternative is to use a dopamine reuptake inhibitor such as methylphenidate which I've started taking today, will be interesting to see how it affect my meditation ability. I'm only guessing but I think meditation could result in upregulation as the brain would eventually adapt to the low level of stimulus, however for me, so far meditation has only resulted in my mind coming up with ways to stimulate itself.

I have always felt that my access to conscious projection is deliberately limited because the experience is too addictive for me.

I've had this feeling too. One would think that after all those attempts something would've happened even if by accident but no. All I got was some LDs which I can't choose to have and happen from luck. Almost like having the ability to project at will suppressed. The scary part is that this kind of makes sense as I definitely would be addicted. However, Tom Campbell disagrees with this so I don't know what to think.

[Lumaza]

I'm only guessing but I think meditation could result in upregulation as the brain would eventually adapt to the low level of stimulus, however for me, so far meditation has only resulted in my mind coming up with ways to stimulate itself.

There is nothing wrong with your mind being "stimulated". As long as your physical body is relaxed and your focus on it released. There are many mental exercises you could come up with that will help you mentally disassociate yourself from your physical body. Be creative.

Here is a link to some proactive techniques, to keep that monkey mind occupied. The technique I use now is quite a much simpler and honed in, then the one I began with when I started that thread. So, you might want to jump to the last page, after reading the initial post. But it should give you some ideas.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html

[Kree]

There is nothing wrong with your mind being "stimulated". As long as your physical body is relaxed and your focus on it released. There are many mental exercises you could come up with that will help you mentally disassociate yourself from your physical body. Be creative.

Here is a link to some proactive techniques, to keep that monkey mind occupied. The technique I use now is quite a much simpler and honed in, then the one I began with when I started that thread. So, you might want to jump to the last page, after reading the initial post. But it should give you some ideas.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html

I tried the doorway technique when you first made that post, I liked it but it required a bit too much mental effort for me. This technique is really good, just tried it for a couple hours, The disassociation part works better than I imagined, saying 'nothing' kind of lets me let go of the physical focus immediately. I had an eyemask on and was seeing stuff clearly which I might've assumed was from my eyes if I hadn't had the mask. I just got stuck at the sense of movement part as I end up doing that until I get tired and forget what I'm doing. Oh and there's also the perpetual problem of discomfort, doesn't matter if I start comfortable, 20 minutes in something will hurt. Guess I'll keep experimenting with positions.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

So in other words, dopamine receptor upregulation. I've kind of tried that but to have a noticeable impact you'd have to quit all high dopamine activities which isn't really an option. An alternative is to use a dopamine reuptake inhibitor such as methylphenidate which I've started taking today, will be interesting to see how it affect my meditation ability. I'm only guessing but I think meditation could result in upregulation as the brain would eventually adapt to the low level of stimulus, however for me, so far meditation has only resulted in my mind coming up with ways to stimulate itself.

I'm not an expert on brain chemistry, nor am I am sure if it makes a difference I practice, but I believe it is a little more than making the receptors more sensitive. The amount of dopamine that is released in the first place is related to perceived and habitual rewards. If my brain knows that e-sports are available I'm getting a smaller release for non-esport activities regardless of how sensitive my receptors are, thus I will struggle to find motivation to begin a phasing session. Furthermore if I use willpower to force the visualization, I won't be able to hold it for longer than a few seconds as the brain is withholding dopamine to discourage me from continuing with this "waste of time activity".

I'm sure you have experienced what I am describing above where you have to constantly reset the visualization as the mind gets bored with it, it is painstaking and requires so much effort that it creates anxiety and makes projection impossible. I think everyone agrees that the secret to projection is to be _completely_ immersed in anything (non-physical). This is the secret to altered states of consciousness even in waking life, such as the UFC fighter Donald Cerrone who regularly has out of body experiences while fighting.

It is the same as the flow state. To achieve flow the activity must be sufficiently challenging to not be boring, and not so difficult as to create anxiety. That middle ground is where the dopamine is flowing properly. Its a feedback loop where one is aware of the fact that they are doing well and allow themselves to be drawn into the activity.

It might not be a reasonable option to quit all high dopamine activities. I really do enjoy e-sports, but I enjoy it more and suffer less consequences if I don't overdo it. Certain activities I think really do need to be mostly quit - the extremes like pornography I think affect the brain for many days, and daily recreational drug use probably isn't going to work for brains like ours.

It might be worth pointing out that for me, dopamine levels directly and strongly affect my lucid dream recall and in-dream lucidity. If you don't have enough dopamine to dream well, you don't have a snowball's chance of conscious projection in my observation.

I've had this feeling too. One would think that after all those attempts something would've happened even if by accident but no. All I got was some LDs which I can't choose to have and happen from luck. Almost like having the ability to project at will suppressed. The scary part is that this kind of makes sense as I definitely would be addicted. However, Tom Campbell disagrees with this so I don't know what to think.

I've never succeeded by accident either. But I have projected while aware with helping hands, such as wake and back to bed where the mind is so chemically primed that a visualization is not needed. Also when using the Wim Hof Method to clean up my brain, it is basically the same as wake and back to bed for the next 10 minutes. Its possible to force a conscious projection without phasing or focus by using the lay perfectly still for a very long time method.

For Tom Campbell, maybe the experience is not addictive. It probably depends on what you do there, if you go with the intent to have a wild trip I can't see how it wouldn't be as addictive as any hard drug (even more so because there are more possibilities and no consequences). If you go with the intent to learn and maybe help people, it isn't the same experience in my mind.

[Lumaza]

I tried the doorway technique when you first made that post, I liked it but it required a bit too much mental effort for me.

Yes, it does take a mental effort. But that also strengthens your "mental muscles" as well. That's always a good thing.

This technique is really good, just tried it for a couple hours, The disassociation part works better than I imagined, saying 'nothing' kind of lets me let go of the physical focus immediately. I had an eyemask on and was seeing stuff clearly which I might've assumed was from my eyes if I hadn't had the mask. I just got stuck at the sense of movement part as I end up doing that until I get tired and forget what I'm doing. Oh and there's also the perpetual problem of discomfort, doesn't matter if I start comfortable, 20 minutes in something will hurt. Guess I'll keep experimenting with positions.

Mentally saying "nothing" is just a confirmation or affirmation of the current state you are in. You mentally say it as you are changing your focus to the next appendage. The first time I came across that method was while I was attempting a Phase session myself. I watched as a bunch of little Pac Man like characters gobbled my body up, starting with my toes. The next time I attempted to Phase, I was shown my body outlined in white chalk, like some kind of murder scene. Further Phase sessions then pressed the importance of mentally disassociating myself from my body. I have used all kinds of creative ways to do that, like unzipping my "Human suit".

I used to always use a mask while Phasing as well. Then I started Phasing in the bathtub and found I was already comfortable enough as it was. I still sleep with my mask on though. That proves to me that any visuals I experience are of the NP nature.

Even though I created my techniques in steps, you don't always have to do every step like clockwork. You need to learn when to stay on course and when to just go with the flow. There are many times I will be doing a Phase/soak session, whereas I just close my eyes and relax for a few minutes. I then may skip the disassociation and just lose myself in thought. Somewhere along the line I click back to focus on the darkness before my eyes and just "observe" and explore it. Then I may make the simple mental command "forward" just to see how deep I am. Many times, that will kick visuals into play. I may then feel myself being drawn forward into the darkness or something associated with the motion forward may appear. I use Forward, Backwards, Left, Right, Up and Down. Backwards seems to be the most extreme though. That practice also teaches you how to navigate using "thought = action". At that point I am just a point of consciousness, which means there are no limitations.

If your body needs you to adjust, it will overpower your projection experience. But, that only ruins it for you if you think it does. Many times I will shift because of a "pang", but then I will resume my focus. At that point, it's easy to get back into it. If anything, you have to acclimate yourself slowly back to your physical focus again, once you have completed your session.

[Lumaza]

I'm sure you have experienced what I am describing above where you have to constantly reset the visualization as the mind gets bored with it, it is painstaking and requires so much effort that it creates anxiety and makes projection impossible.

Many people report the same thing and they don't have problems with "Dopamine". They just get bored of staring a darkness. In the beginning, it takes time to acquire a good NP state of consciousness. When I began, it took me an hour to and hour and half before I had any favorable/noticeable results. Sometimes, even 2 hours. But with practice, that has changed. That's a lot of looking into the darkness.

I created my proactive technique so I could keep my mind occupied, while the natural shift took place. There is no direct attempt to shift in my process. My Doorway technique is just setting the stage or passing the time, while the shift occurs. Once it doers, you can get as serious and "Spiritual" as you would like to. I have had people say that my technique was more based on thrill than Spiritualism. My technique leads you to that "Spiritual Doorway", if that is what your intent is. I have found you can just go and continue opening Doorways to new adventures or you could use that time to do some serious research. I use part of my Phase/soak session to work on my Crystal Amplifiers that I create. My newest ones, surprise, surprise, are all focused on amplifying peoples' awareness.
I believe they bring positivity into people's lives, because that what I "intended" and created them to do. I have received positive feedback from the owners of my pieces that have affirmed that to me as well. I was shown to create them while in a "projection" and am shown new designs on a daily basis. I was no Artist, until about 5 months ago. That's when I came across a NP entity that wished to help me. They knew my goal of changing the World. But I was told you do that one person at a time.
Here is my a site I use for my pictures. There is no place to comment there. I didn't build these for ego. I always believe it is the message, not the messenger that is important. I have made personal pieces for people, that I was commissioned to do, focused on specific intents as well.
http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/Lionheart78/story

[octave]

Interesting work, Lumaza. You look like you've been busy! And thanks for your posts, they're always very helpful.

[Lumaza]

Interesting work, Lumaza. You look like you've been busy! And thanks for your posts, they're always very helpful.

Thank you for your kind words! Your welcome my friend! 

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Many people report the same thing and they don't have problems with "Dopamine". They just get bored of staring a darkness.

Maybe they all do have problems with dopamine and just aren't aware of it, its a scale obviously. Something as simple as looking at images on Instagram is more stimulation than the human brain is evolved to cope with. I don't know anyone my age that doesn't masturbate to pornography, its very harmful but it is the new normal.

I don't relate to being bored of staring at darkness personally, I've had the most success that way. The staring at darkness part feels like a reprieve from the effort of visualization for me. I can see why people may not have the patience to wait like that though.

For lack of a better term, my guides have been telling me for years that I won't be able to astral project until I quit all addictions. On a physical level it creates a barrier to the process. On a subconscious level I feel too judged to be face to face with entities there.

On the flip side I have one piece of affirmative evidence that increased levels of dopamine can make projection effortless. My fiancé was able to do it on accident with a drug that increases dopamine a couple of years ago.

It just makes sense to me that a lack of dopamine tends to result in a lack of focus and that works directly against projection. Highly stimulating activities tend to induce a state of hyper focus in such individuals, that is also my experience with e-sports. If there was a way of inducing the hyper focus in a mental rundown projection should be very easy, its just very difficult to produce a topic that provides enough stimulation. A few months ago I recognized that sexual fantasies with masturbation meet the criteria, but that is using a physical stimulus to assist the dopamine flow.