Astral reality

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Neutrino4344

Whats up, I'm new to this forum and astral projection. I'm just wondering if astral projection is valid, or is it an imaginary dimension that's from someones imagination? How can we prove its existence like the existence of Heaven? Is their dimensions between the physical and spiritual?

OrionsDream

hmm ok to anwser the 1st part of that..
do not come to this site asking if astral projection is real  :wink:
i have absolutely no opinion on the matter, and haven't tried to astral project much, but if u come here asking it u will most certaintly get a 'yes'
as for the rest...
take it away.. any!
p.s. welcome!
-Ned (the most loved/ awesomest person on astralpulse)  8)  :P
Save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind on your feet come with me we are soldiers stand or die
Save your fears take your place save them for the judgement day fast and free follow me time to make the sacrifice we rise or fall

Hannah b

Hello and welcome to the forums!
one thing intrigued me "How can we prove its existence like the existence of Heaven?"...wow!!!...You know someone who can prove the existence of heaven!?...I'm curious how it was accomplished... :lol:
I believe that heaven/hell exists if you believe that it exists.
Do not underestimate the power of your mind.
To me it's all not that big of a deal...there are more dimensions aside from the physical one. AP ing is just a matter of tuning in with the desired dimension. I base my beliefs on my experiences. And to me, the physical reality is something that should be questioned...it's a joke...a mere lookalike of what "real" is like..
"we are spiritual beings having a human experience,  not the other way around"

ps. I'm moving this topic to OBE discussions  :wink:
The only constant in the Universe is change

magicmac2000

Neutrino: if you want to see "proof" that someone can be out of his/her body, there are a few studies done by Charles Tart (a girl that was able to read a 5 digit random number comes to my mind) and also in the Bruce Moen board (afterlife-knowledge.com) you can see a few verifications of people who contacted deceased ones.
Now you can ask: yeah, why believing those studies ? Who are those guys anyway ? ... and you will always end up trying to find for yourself. There's no escape for that. Someone here can tell you they are "REAL", another one may say that they are simply "Lucid Dreams", but at the end, you are the one who will have to find out :)
Another thing to keep in mind, it that for most people is not easy at all to keep themselves in the real time zone, that means, being out of body but in the physical world in order to check the reality of known objects, places, etc.
I can't answer that question because I had just one OBE. The curious thing is that I was in the Real Time Zone and everything matched the physical. I wasn't able to do any reality check coz I was so damn excited and it was so short :(
One cool point about all these is that most people report -more or less- the same symptoms while leaving the body. When I had my OBE, I had no idea what should happen. The vibrations, bangs, sounds, sensations where exactly the same as reported by many others in this board ... so if it's simply a Lucid Dream, how in the world are we feeling the same sensations ? How are we "dreaming" of being in the same room ? When you normally dream, there's no chance for you to control where the dream should take place... it can be anywhere from a real place to a fantasy world ...
Wow !! What a long post !! I will stop boring you now, just one more thing: TRY IT. It's worth it and it won't harm you at all ...
And about the Heaven stuff ... do you believe in heaven and hell ? Fine, can you prove that ? Can you prove the existence of God ? Can you prove the existence of Jesus ? Most spirituality stuff is a matter of faith. OBEs are a practical thing to experience and explore BY YOURSELF without having to believe in anything ... watch out, it may blow out your belief system in a minute :)

Good luck with your search,
Magic.
-Still can't find the Truth.
    (If there is one)

mrloki

the only way to really find out is to study about the subject and create your own opinion...don't ask others if it is real, it is for you to find out on your own with the help of others

Kazbadan

i think that find out if is real or not it shouldnt be something personal but for all the AP comunity. Study it and reveal the results to all the others. The study of something so much important like this it is not personal.

It is bigger than that.

just my opinion
I love you!

Neutrino4344

QuoteHeaven?"...wow!!!...You know someone who can prove the existence of heaven!?...I'm curious how it was accomplished...  

Yes Hannah B, it replies in the scriptures   "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."--- Genesis 1:1 plus Jesus came to earth for one main mission. It replies in John 3:16--- "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that who ever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life". Not to mention all of these OBE and NDE reports on people seeing huge lights and especially prophets like Isaiah and Zachariah as well as John the apostle who wrote Revelation.

As for astral projection I actually manage to lift my astral body out my physical body and place my astral hands in the support beams of the bed above me since I slept in the bottom bunk that night.



QuoteAnother thing to keep in mind, it that for most people is not easy at all to keep themselves in the real time zone, that means, being out of body but in the physical world in order to check the reality of known objects, places, etc.
I can't answer that question because I had just one OBE. The curious thing is that I was in the Real Time Zone and everything matched the physical. I wasn't able to do any reality check coz I was so damn excited and it was so short  
One cool point about all these is that most people report -more or less- the same symptoms while leaving the body. When I had my OBE, I had no idea what should happen. The vibrations, bangs, sounds, sensations where exactly the same as reported by many others in this board ... so if it's simply a Lucid Dream, how in the world are we feeling the same sensations ? How are we "dreaming" of being in the same room ? When you normally dream, there's no chance for you to control where the dream should take place... it can be anywhere from a real place to a fantasy world ...

Magicmac, good point you cant controll normal dreams because its like youre watching a movie. As for projecting, you can controll the events that you want to do at any time. It's beyond my comprehinsion how you can possibly get out of your physical body to go on to another dimension as you can when you die and go to heaven. But through my experience that I had, their is a astral realm. If you would study quantum machanics, you'll see theirs dimesions curled up in the fabric of space, but im not positive on the fact that you can inhabbit it. As for a Astral bodies, is it our soul? or what? I only theirs only 3 layers of your existence which is the physical, Soul(intellect) and spirit.

magicmac2000

Neutrino, those passages of the Bible don't proof anything. In 2000 years you will have plenty of books and those (actual) writings won't proof anything also. I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm saying they are not a valid proof. You asked a question (valid, very valid and excellent by the way) from a skeptical point of view, and from that position, the Bible is no more than a lot of other books, like the Bhagavad Gita or others from different religions. Unfortunately, claims from religions can't be proved :( It's a matter of faith. I'm Christian (apparently like you) but those are beliefs based on culture and faith. Go to the Amazonas and ask somebody about Jesus, Buddha or whoever ... they simply don't know about them and I don't believe that everyone MUST know about them in order to go to heaven (if there is one). Anyway, going back to Astral Projection, there is a cool guy here called "The Voice of Silence" (from now on, TVOS) that made a lot of tests with the "Card Experiment". He failed a lot of times but his tests are really interesting. I don't believe it will be an easy task to prove that AP is "Real", because when you are out of your body, your don't carry your original five senses with you, so if you have to look at something, your astral eyes may fool you... I think the experiment will be easier if we do something like testing what you hear instead of what you see. Why ? Maybe your ears are better "emulated" than your eyes. Again, TVOS said that his Dog was able to feel his presence, and started barking... here could see him and hearing barking ... because of the barking noise he woke up to find out that yes, the dog was barking :) Is that proof ? Not exactly, but very close. He maybe fooled himself thinking that he heard the barking in the Astral while maybe, it was in the physical... who knows ? But check out his posts ... he's doing a good job...
About the Astral Bodies ... Souls, Spirit ... Can't answer that question, I really don't know, but maybe we are using different names for the same things (Astral Body == Soul, etc).

Cheers,
Magic.
-Still can't find the Truth.
    (If there is one)

jub jub

Quote from: Neutrino4344Whats up, I'm new to this forum and astral projection. I'm just wondering if astral projection is valid, or is it an imaginary dimension that's from someones imagination? How can we prove its existence like the existence of Heaven? Is their dimensions between the physical and spiritual?

Ask yourself this, is this existence real or imaginary?

There are many dimensions and they are based on a vibrational state. If your consciousness is in phase with a particular state, then you will perceive reality in accordance with that particular state. As it is, your current state of consciousness is determined by the frequency of brain waves in your awakened state.


Peace
"A moral being is one who is capable of reflecting on his past actions and their motives - approving of some and disapproving of others"  -  Charles Darwin

Neutrino4344

Neutrino, those passages of the Bible don't proof anything. In 2000 years you will have plenty of books and those (actual) writings won't proof anything also. I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm saying they are not a valid proof.


6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
  "No eye has seen,
     no ear has heard,
  no mind has conceived
  what God has prepared for those who love him"— 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
     The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
   16"For who has known the mind of the Lord
     that he may instruct him?"[d] But we have the mind of Christ.---1Corinthians 2:6-16. .... that explains why people in the Amazonas might not percieve something more powerful than what they could comprehind for a more powerful Supreme Being.


QuoteUnfortunately, claims from religions can't be proved  It's a matter of faith. I'm Christian (apparently like you) but those are beliefs based on culture and faith. Go to the Amazonas and ask somebody about Jesus, Buddha or whoever ... they simply don't know about them and I don't believe that everyone MUST know about them in order to go to heaven (if there is one).


Really? Jesus replied in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no comes trough the father except through me" Plus those people who practice pagan false religions are automatically condemned to hell because they do not have Jesus as their savior on the day of judgement to take thier place for sins. No offense, but Magicmac, it really bothers me to see that you do not know the way to heaven and it appears as youre doubting their is  one, and Jesus is the only way their. "And this is the testimony:God has given us eternal life, he who has the son has life, he who does not have the son of God does not have life"--- 1John 5:11-12.

Im getting off topic, if you like Magicmac we could email if you would like further infomation on this topic.

As for astral projection, I always recall that you have that you could only have physical symptoms and senses to travel and to manuver all around where you are going, is that true or is it just your brain simulating the five senses of the physical reality into the astral?


Ask yourself this, is this existence real or imaginary?

There are many dimensions and they are based on a vibrational state. If your consciousness is in phase with a particular state, then you will perceive reality in accordance with that particular state. As it is, your current state of consciousness is determined by the frequency of brain waves in your awakened state.


I agree Jub Jub, this reality isnt the the most authentic, we only simulate length, width, and depth, the fourht dimension is beyond my knowledge and comprehinsion.

Draege

Proof of God comes from personal experiences alone. Quotes from scripture, while very possibly could be the true word of God, from a philisophical standpoint are still in fact words in a book written by human men and in that sense are generally not taken well by "intellectuals" who seek spiritual knowledge or whatnot. "Intellectuals" tend to rely on experiences and personal logic to create their beliefs and thus even if Christianity were the path they'd choose its often through alternate methods than the bible that they arrive there. In that respect intelligence is quite a hinderance.

In any case, I think you'll find over time with lots of experience in the field of out of body experiences that there is in fact a supreme BLUR between dream and real-time-zone. I have found that they are all 'dreams' and it is simply that the possibilities of location/events/people/futureprediction/metaphysical is just a grand variability in these dreams.. Proof, again, will always be highly personal and very subjective. There will always be the what if factor (what if its still not what I think it is).

Neutrino4344

I wonder what metaphysical means and is the astral similar to our realm? does it have properties like time,space,time and density/mass?

magicmac2000

Neutrino: if I said something offensive to you, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to do that or to bother you at all. Sorry.
I also don't want to change your way of thinking, beliefs or Faith. Not at all !! We are sharing ideas and experiences here in order to grow and YES, I believe (it's just a belief) that people who don't believe in Jesus, Buddha or whoever, will also be OK. At the end, -for me- the most important thing is how much love you have and specially, how much you can give. About all the other things I don't know.
About heaven and hell, I don't believe that those places exist. I think that prophets, mystics and masters from those times spoke in simple terms so people could understand. But anyway, I'm happy that you have an unconditional Faith. For me, if you want to believe in Buddha and that helps you being a better person, fine. If being Christian, the same. If not being anything at all, but yet you try to be better every day, cool. But please, don't send me to hell only because I have doubts about the scriptures. I don't think that God will be mad because I don't trust the Scriptures. At the end, for the guys who lived with Jesus, to have Faith it's easier than me, who didn't see anything except what those -men written- scriptures said. So God is not asking me to believe in Jesus but asking me to believe what other men wrote, it's a different thing. "The Truth will set you free". "Search inside, not outside". That is what I believe. I don't think I need scriptures in order to find it. I prefer the "Search inside" part.

Draege: I personally don't feel I'm an "Intellectual" but in the same way I question other religions, I have to do it with mine. Why am I Christian ? Why an Indian is Buddhist ? Why people in Israel are still waiting for the Messiahs ? Are those guys wrong and I am right ? Why ? They also have their scriptures, even older than the gospels. And apart from that, what would happen to me if I were from a different country ? Do you think that you would be Christian if you were born in China ?

So it's not a matter of feeling "Intelligent" because I don't believe those things. It's a matter that in the same way that Neutrino FEELS that there is a Heaven and Hell, I FEEL that those places are part of Human Imagination. So why should I be wrong ?
I don't think that Spiritual Knowledge is believing everything that others said. I think that it should be a personal search and a personal experience. At the end, my FEELING, my OPINION and I have no proof for that, is that the most important thing in life is how much Love you can give, all the other stuff, rituals, beliefs, etc are subject to further examination.

Cheers and please guys, don't feel offended if I say something that you don't like. Those are just MY words, not the scriptures.

Magic.
-Still can't find the Truth.
    (If there is one)

Neutrino4344

It's a matter that in the same way that Neutrino FEELS that there is a Heaven and Hell, I FEEL that those places are part of Human Imagination. So why should I be wrong ?



I don't FEEL that theirs a heaven and a hell, Its a fact from the living word of God.
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my father's house there are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you with me that you also may be where I am." John 14:1-3

and for hell...43"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.[c] 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.[d] 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where
  " 'their worm does not die,
     and the fire is not quenched.'[e] 49Everyone will be salted with fire".
That's the truth of Gods LIVING word, notice I quote scripture instead of my own opinion because the word is the TRUTH

Why people in Israel are still waiting for the Messiahs ?
To prove how truthful it is,Jesus is COMING AGAIN! :D , Jews deny The Messiah Jesus and theirs only one...
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

   4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

   9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.---Matthew 24:3-14. Check out the recent earthquake in Pakistan and India as well as in Asia! The bible is truth and prophecy is being fulfilled right this moment! Don't get the impression that I'm condemning you, I'm just trying to reveal truth and the truth will set you free. That's why Buddhist, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Atheist, Mormons,Greek Orthodox,Catholics etc are going to Hell,they need Jesus to take their sin away to be given the right to go to heaven. I cant see how you call yourself christian if you do not believe these things already magic mac. What type of christian are you? that lives by feeling and not by faith? I'm not condemning you or criticizing you I'm just simply curious  ,it surprised me that you do not know these things :o.


Quote"Search inside, not outside". That is what I believe. I don't think I need scriptures in order to find it. I prefer the "Search inside" part.


That's your problem, God isn't going to reveal ANYTHING to you if your heart isn't convicted by his word, answers aren't within you because never said in the scriptures "seek God within you". Your'e simply serving SELF, not GOD.

NickJW

Give me a brake, most people on these forums have had enough of the preaching. I only believe what is scientifically plausible/proven, logical and what I have experienced. This has led me to disbelieve that the bible has any divinity in it at all. The bibles logic is mixed with human emotion, to want firgiveness and to fear hell. There is no real proof behind it all. Sure you have blind faith, but without some time of proof there is no logic in having faith and there is no logic in trying to convert people who have risen above mysticism and blind faith and realized that the universe works in natural laws, not God's or Jesus's magical laws.
Sure I astral phase, but that is personal experience and quantum physics suports it. I personally believe it is real but I don't dismiss the fact that it could also not be real, as there is no hard scientific proof for it yet. However, the mystical belief systems surrounding astral projection are also dogmatic and highly illogical.
I did not mean to offend you if I have done so, but you must analyze things from a logical perspective, not an emotiona; one, I would sugest looking up the Socratic Method and then using it on your christian, biased views of how the universe and the afterlife works.

Draege

NickJW, just because he comes and insults our beliefs doesn't mean you're in the right to do the same to him. In the future save yourself some steam and take the higher road.

magicmac2000

Neutrino: I already told you not to use the Bible to prove anything. You won't make me change my mind at all. I'm Christian because I born in a Christian country and my parents are Christians. That's REAL the reason.
I never said AP was "REAL". Re-read this thread. I told you I was finding out by myself and there is a guy here -TVOS- making good experiments with it. However, I won't say "it's real or unreal" before I can check out by myself. With the Bible, you will never be able to say that is real or unreal. You can't experience the past, you don't know where this words (Gospels) are coming from and ... please, don't tell me that: "Buddhist, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Atheist, Mormons,Greek Orthodox,Catholics etc are going to Hell" ... That is really funny. I don't believe that God is exclusive to Catholics.
If I can speak about my experience, the only REAL MYSTICAL thing that I can prove for real is LOVE. Nothing more. Religions are well for a lot of people -who don't ask questions-, but instead of joining them, they divide. You see ? You think that other religions are wrong. Maybe you and me could be good friends, even if we have a lot of differences like the native language, the country, the political ideas, etc. But because I don't buy what the Bible says and you are too orthodox, a division start to grow between us. If there were no religions, there were also no division between you and me.
Please, if you still reply to this one, don't use Bible passages because I won't take those words. I want your reply, not the Bible. I have one Bible at home so if I need an answer like that, I will open it. Don't bother yourself re-typing the stuff that others wrote. Think for yourself, experience for yourself, feel for yourself and reply for yourself.
And please, don't blame other religions or send them to hell. Nobody blamed yours.
-Still can't find the Truth.
    (If there is one)

Neutrino4344

QuoteI'm Christian because I born in a Christian country and my parents are Christians. That's REAL the reason.


that doesn't make you christian...

jub jub

Neutrino4344,

We are all made in the image of God, spiritually speaking...correct?

Well now, if you had children that misbehave, give you a hard time, would you punish them forever by casting them into a lake of fire or eternal torment? I think not.

I had two teenage daughters that use to really get under my skin to the point I felt like bringing bodily harm against them, but I didn't. And after all was said and done I still loved them. I love my kids to this day regardless of all the hardship they put me through and I still only want the best for them. I'm sure that is what God wants for us as well.

The whole idea of being cast into a lake of fire for not believing in certain teachings is what I believe is man's idea in order to exert control over people, to put fear in them and what the consequences are for disobeying.

Do a google search for Near Death Experience (NDE) and read some of the stories about people who have died and come back to talk about it. I think it will cause you to change your mind about your current belief system.

I guess this thread is now officially hijacked and should probably be moved to World Religions. Sorry about that.

Peace
"A moral being is one who is capable of reflecting on his past actions and their motives - approving of some and disapproving of others"  -  Charles Darwin