Detailed teachings of Reality

[pmlonline]

MisterJingo,

Karma is not an entity.  It is a universal law.  If you want to participate in group consciousness then you WILL reap what you sew.  Science knows it as the law of cause and effect.  That is, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Sorry, there is no way a group consciousness is going to allow someone to murder billions of lives and not be responsible for the action.  It is called being responsible.  Believe that karma is not real does not make it disappear.  Personally I find it very odd that so many people here are trying to believe they need not be responsible for their actions.  Karma is a universal force.  It is part of the laws that the group consciousness created.

Peace,
Paul

[MisterJingo]

Belief in responsibility for actions does not equal Karma which implies an external entity (note I did not say being) dominating a person and forcing a punishment upon them.
The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death. If I play a game with my children and one of them loses and is 'out', should I be punished for that? The consequences in a view of reality which encompasses the astral is exactly the same. If someone loses (dies) then they are out of that lifetime. They are free to go back if they desire and no great harm has been done to their soul. Please note that I am not condoning murder of any sort. I just feel the reactions of a lot of people who truly believe in life after death (especially those who follow an astral view of creation) are confusing. Another matter is that creation literally consumes itself on every level. Please tell me of a single level where energy does not consume other energy (be that animals eating animals, plants eating nutrients, man eating plants etc) does all this accrue Karmic debt too? Or is the death of lesser energy sources (lesser in our eyes anyway) not worthy of any Karma debt? With creation literally cannibalising and regurgitating itself, we will be damned forever as we will never pay off the Karma.

A question for you: It is established that good and evil are relative to the observers belief systems (which is based on the society into which he/she was born). In many ancient societies ritual sacrifice was not only considered good, it was actively sought out by members of that society as an honour, yet, in today's society such a thing would be considered evil. Who chooses the moral values which encompass creation, and have you seen some record of them? If not, then how can you be sure that your definition of this Karma is correct?

Karma smacks of passing responsibility to an higher force instead of truly being responsible for our own actions.

Edit: I should also say that I can't really see how causality can be likened to Karma.

[pmlonline]

Belief in responsibility for actions does not equal Karma which implies an external entity (note I did not say being) dominating a person and forcing a punishment upon them.

Karma is not an entity or a being.  It is an energy that you create.  The moment you do something then you instantly create an energy pattern.  That energy pattern is now part of you until it is released.  When and how that energy is released is dependent upon many forces in your life.  Punishment?  I am sorry if people think God or the Universe plays sick jokes, but it is by their own doing that it takes place.

The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death.

Yikes!!!  I hope the FBI doesn't read your post.  IMHO that is a very sad belief system.  You just justified your and anyone's actions to take away lives.  Read your post again PLEASE.  You said it is "means nothing" if the murderer believes in such and such.  A life is one of the most sacred gifts by God.  Your entire lower self (physical, etheric, astral, concrete mind) was created by the God consciousness.  It is not your right to take away your own life much less the lives of others.

If I play a game with my children and one of them loses and is 'out', should I be punished for that?

It is not my place to break you away from such thought.  All I can do is restate it over and over.  Again, it is not punishment and it is not an outside thing that does what you call punishment.  It is an energy pattern that the CHILD created, nobody else.  They did it.  It is part of the laws of universal physics.  Science discovered the law a long time ago.  Long ago we were all one-- one group consciousness, everything.  Then we decided to forget and descend into a new creation and so-called separate.  Karma was created so that all individuals could make it back home / the group.  Without the law of cause and effect there would be 100% total chaos.

Please note that I am not condoning murder of any sort.

You should probably go back and study your words.

Please tell me of a single level where energy does not consume other energy (be that animals eating animals, plants eating nutrients, man eating plants etc) does all this accrue Karmic debt too?

Anything you do is karma.  Move your finger and that is karma.  Karma is simply an energy pattern that you create!  It is your choice if you want to look at it as good or bad.  Haven't you ever heard people say, "That's good karma."  You can view the karma as you like, but I can assure you most sane people will view the removal of a physical life / murder as REALLY BAD Karma.

A question for you: It is established that good and evil are relative to the observers belief systems

My definitions:
Good - Construction.
Bad – Destruction.

In many ancient societies ritual sacrifice was not only considered good, it was actively sought out by members of that society as an honour, yet, in today's society such a thing would be considered evil. Who chooses the moral values which encompass creation, and have you seen some record of them? If not, then how can you be sure that your definition of this Karma is correct?

Morals?  If you apply a force on an object then it pushes back.  That is inertia.  There are no morals in that.  If you murder someone then you create an equal an opposite energy pattern.  You created that energy and it is yours.  There are infinite ways that energy pattern may be released, but regardless, the amount of energy to be released will always be equal and opposite to your actions.  There are no morals in that.  It is a very simple law and no decisions are need to determine the energy you create because it is always equal and opposite to your actions.  Without it then nobody would need to be responsible for his or her actions.  The Fallen Angelic kingdom hates the law of Karma.  They also have a very similar belief that you pose.  You keep wanting to point to finger at someone, when it reality it is you that created your karma.  It is your energy.  It is a vitally important law.

Peace,
Paul

[Stookie]

<quote>Regarding Monroe believing in Karma. As far as I remember his 'I There' was creating new incarnations to look for the missing basics on Earth. It was even stated by his 'I There' that once they found the basic they would blast off (leave the Earth life system for good).</quote>

It is also stated in that book that if a certain incarnation didn't do what was needed, it was passed over into a new incarnation to accomplish: that's Karma.

My understanding of Karma is that there is a conglomeration of energies that create a whole. We reincarnate as different individuals to go through experiences in the physical world, that aspects of those energies create. The energies obtained or not obtained during a lifetime dictates the energy put into a subsequent incarnation.

I think it's extremely naive to think "I farted in a guys salad in this life, so in my next life I will get my salad farted on". Karma is much more detailed and complicated than that.

[MisterJingo]

Belief in responsibility for actions does not equal Karma which implies an external entity (note I did not say being) dominating a person and forcing a punishment upon them.

Karma is not an entity or a being.  It is an energy that you create.  The moment you do something then you instantly create an energy pattern.  That energy pattern is now part of you until it is released.  When and how that energy is released is dependent upon many forces in your life.  Punishment?  I am sorry if people think God or the Universe plays sick jokes, but it is by their own doing that it takes place.

A few posts back I stated that karma is a self created condition and you said no it is not, it is a law created by a group consciousness. So which is it? A law by definition is a rule set which is enforced, and as you stated it is a law created by a group consciousness, then you are literally stating that karma is a rule set enforced by a group consciousness. how can an externally created law be an innate internal process?

The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death.

Yikes!!!  I hope the FBI doesn't read your post.  IMHO that is a very sad belief system.  You just justified your and anyone's actions to take away lives.  Read your post again PLEASE.  You said it is "means nothing" if the murderer believes in such and such.  A life is one of the most sacred gifts by God.  Your entire lower self (physical, etheric, astral, concrete mind) was created by the God consciousness.  It is not your right to take away your own life much less the lives of others.

Everything means something, but you misread what I said. Life as we know it on Earth is false. Earth is simply a belief system with no greater importance than an infinite other number of belief systems. if you believe Earth has some great importance then that is an Ego produced belief. "Where I am is important".
Death is an impossibility, making someone exit a belief system is not a terrible act, that is what I said. You seem to be caught up in the human concepts of death rather than seeing Earth as a simple astral locale.
Please tell me how it is possible to truely kill anything? I am not talking about this death construct built into this astral locale.

If I play a game with my children and one of them loses and is 'out', should I be punished for that?

It is not my place to break you away from such thought.  All I can do is restate it over and over.  Again, it is not punishment and it is not an outside thing that does what you call punishment.  It is an energy pattern that the CHILD created, nobody else.  They did it.  It is part of the laws of universal physics.  Science discovered the law a long time ago.  Long ago we were all one-- one group consciousness, everything.  Then we decided to forget and descend into a new creation and so-called separate.  Karma was created so that all individuals could make it back home / the group.  Without the law of cause and effect there would be 100% total chaos.

Please see above. You have stated multiple times that Karma is a law created by a group consciousness. it is not a fundamental part of LIFE energy constructs. If it exists, it has been placed there by your definition.

Please note that I am not condoning murder of any sort.

You should probably go back and study your words.

And so should you as you are presenting two conflicting accounts of what Karma is. You say it is a law created by group consciousness, then you imply it is an innate part of everything.

Please tell me of a single level where energy does not consume other energy (be that animals eating animals, plants eating nutrients, man eating plants etc) does all this accrue Karmic debt too?

Anything you do is karma.  Move your finger and that is karma.  Karma is simply an energy pattern that you create!  It is your choice if you want to look at it as good or bad.  Haven't you ever heard people say, "That's good karma."  You can view the karma as you like, but I can assure you most sane people will view the removal of a physical life / murder as REALLY BAD Karma.

Please see above about your definitions of Karma.
Please answer this question: If I was in the astral and I put my arms around another being and I phased into another astral location with them, is this a terrible deed? THey have simply moved from one location to another.
Well even Monroe stated that he hopes one day humans will see this Earth life system for what it is, so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment. Are you saying Monroe is wrong here?

A question for you: It is established that good and evil are relative to the observers belief systems

My definitions:
Good - Construction.
Bad – Destruction.

The entire of creation is in a constant state of destruction and construction. So creation is bad due to its destructive methods? Death can be seen as destruction, yet it is essential to the continuation of life. I don't really know what you are trying to say here?

In many ancient societies ritual sacrifice was not only considered good, it was actively sought out by members of that society as an honour, yet, in today's society such a thing would be considered evil. Who chooses the moral values which encompass creation, and have you seen some record of them? If not, then how can you be sure that your definition of this Karma is correct?

Morals?  If you apply a force on an object then it pushes back.  That is inertia.  There are no morals in that.  If you murder someone then you create an equal an opposite energy pattern.  You created that energy and it is yours.  There are infinite ways that energy pattern may be released, but regardless, the amount of energy to be released will always be equal and opposite to your actions.  There are no morals in that.  It is a very simple law and no decisions are need to determine the energy you create because it is always equal and opposite to your actions.  Without it then nobody would need to be responsible for his or her actions.  The Fallen Angelic kingdom hates the law of Karma.  They also have a very similar belief that you pose.  You keep wanting to point to finger at someone, when it reality it is you that created your karma.  It is your energy.  It is a vitally important law.

Peace,
Paul

Please see you definitions of Karma. If viewing murder in an astral model sense, I see it as bad as you are inflicting your desires on a person against their will. I can't see what other effects it would have to an immortal soul? Especially when one considers the physical is not what we are led to believe.

Edit: Where is this kingdom of fallen angels and does it have any relevance outside of those who do not follow Christianity? I would hate to even attempt a guess at how many beliefs and religions exist throughout the entirety of creation, do all the ones which do not have a concept of angel now become void?

[MisterJingo]

<quote>Regarding Monroe believing in Karma. As far as I remember his 'I There' was creating new incarnations to look for the missing basics on Earth. It was even stated by his 'I There' that once they found the basic they would blast off (leave the Earth life system for good).</quote>

It is also stated in that book that if a certain incarnation didn't do what was needed, it was passed over into a new incarnation to accomplish: that's Karma.

My understanding of Karma is that there is a conglomeration of energies that create a whole. We reincarnate as different individuals to go through experiences in the physical world, that aspects of those energies create. The energies obtained or not obtained during a lifetime dictates the energy put into a subsequent incarnation.

I think it's extremely naive to think "I farted in a guys salad in this life, so in my next life I will get my salad farted on". Karma is much more detailed and complicated than that.

The task was passed over into a new incarnation not due to a universal law making it so, but because his "I There" desired it to be. They were looking for information and so kept sending out scouts until they found it.
The concept of karma as an unalterable universal law which causes us to work off karmic debt before we can progress is what I am arguing against.

[pmlonline]

A few posts back I stated that karma is a self created condition and you said no it is not, it is a law created by a group consciousness. So which is it?

I don't see where I said that.  I believe that I clearly stated that the law of karma was created by the group consciousness as part of the universe.  I also stated that that our actions creates energy patterns and that is Karma.  There is a difference between the actual law and the effect.  For example, in modern science, the electric force is a law of the universe and an particular proton going by an electron is an effect.

A law by definition is a rule set which is enforced, and as you stated it is a law created by a group consciousness, then you are literally stating that karma is a rule set enforced by a group consciousness. how can an externally created law be an innate internal process?

It is not an externally created law.  Everyone created it, which includes you.  It is an agreement, not an entity or something.  It is something you, your higher and divine self agreed to.

Life as we know it on Earth is false. Earth is simply a belief system with no greater importance than an infinite other number of belief systems. if you believe Earth has some great importance then that is an Ego produced belief. "Where I am is important".

That's an odd statement.  I think everyone is important.  I see no ego in that.  Everyone is just as important.

Death is an impossibility, making someone exit a belief system is not a terrible act, that is what I said. You seem to be caught up in the human concepts of death rather than seeing Earth as a simple astral locale.

I even quoted you.  Here it is again, "The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death."  We all agree that you go to the Etheric and then the Astral when your physical dies.  If you murder somebody then you will have great karma, period.  It is not your decision to say when a person is to leave the physical plane.

Please tell me how it is possible to truly kill anything? I am not talking about this death construct built into this astral locale.

Death obviously means when a body no longer operates and dissipates into energy.  The physical can die.  Your astral also die.  When you die physically you go to the etheric planes for healing.  There you will be asleep for some time.  Then you pass on to the Astral.  There you will live for a while, say 150 years.  Then you pass on to the mental realms and eventually your higher self will recreate all of your bodies again and the rebirth process starts over UNLESS you have been liberated from the continuous cycle of reincarnation.  Being liberated means that you do not have sufficient karma on the physical plane and therefore you no longer need to reincarnate.

You say it is a law created by group consciousness, then you imply it is an innate part of everything.

Yes, I said it was a law that everyone agreed to.  Why do you think that is a contradiction?  When I say you, I am talking about your higher and divine self, but that is an entirely different topic.

Please answer this question: If I was in the astral and I put my arms around another being and I phased into another astral location with them, is this a terrible deed? THey have simply moved from one location to another.
Well even Monroe stated that he hopes one day humans will see this Earth life system for what it is, so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment. Are you saying Monroe is wrong here?

IMHO you are really confusing things to the point where it is dangerous for you.  Monroe wanted people to consider death a good thing!  OK?  He never wanted people to think that another being could murder someone and that is a good thing!  It is NOT your right to murder someone's physical or their astral.  Additionally I will tell you straight up that suicide is one of the greatest sins of all because that physical body was created by your higher self, that god part of you.  I am sorry, if you murder someone or commit suicide then that is a sure route to the lowest astral hells.  Again, read you statement, "so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment."  And also you said, "The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death."

The entire of creation is in a constant state of destruction and construction. So creation is bad due to its destructive methods? Death can be seen as destruction, yet it is essential to the continuation of life. I don't really know what you are trying to say here?

I posted on this topic some time ago.  The universe is always in a state of construction in totality.  The universe is always evolving in totality.  Long ago 1/3 of the Angelic kingdom fell.  That is prime example of the way of things.  The point is, most of the Angelic kingdom evolved; i.e., 2/3 evolved and 1/3 fell.  I believe the Universe is God.  I also believe that God in totality is good.  There is an old saying, "In order for the new to come forth, the old must be destroyed."  That is birth pains, also known as growing pains.  Evolution is about change for the good.  Yes you can view life in totality as good.  For any object of any size can view viewed as good / positive or bad / negative.  Again, if you consider all things, then yes it is good, in totality.  If you consider a particular part such as a star exploding, then if the process is destruction then that by itself is not good.  You may frown on that idea, but you must know that there are various levels of good and bad.  For example, the actual physical material that makes up the star is not a highly evolved consciousness relative to you.  If you were to see the higher energies involved in that star explosion you would see there is a highly evolved life form.  On that level it is a new birth and that life form moves on to a great place.  So when considering the all realms then it may be a good thing.  Back to you example of murder.  It is not in the best interest to that life form to end its physical existence.  Your lower left is not spiritually evolved to make such decisions.  It is entirely up to that individual's higher self to decide when it is time to die physically, not yours.  When you murder some or commit suicide, you are not improving that person or yourself spiritually.

Edit: Where is this kingdom of fallen angels and does it have any relevance outside of those who do not follow Christianity? I would hate to even attempt a guess at how many beliefs and religions exist throughout the entirety of creation, do all the ones which do not have a concept of angel now become void?

As you know, the fallen Angelic Kingdom is not a religion and I hope you do not believe Christians created it.  There are many great beings in creation that are very real consciousness just as you are real.  For example, Lord Christ is not a made up being.  Lord Buddha is not a made up being.  Master Jesus is not a made up being.  At age 33 Master Jesus allowed Lord Christ to manifest for 3 years.  Master Jesus is a being that is part of the human kingdom.  Lord Christ is a being that is part of the Archangel kingdom.  At present, Lord Christ is the most spiritual evolved being of the Archangel kingdom.  Archangels are a little bit beyond our understanding.  They are so spiritually evolved relative you and I that they each are a group consciousness.  That is, they can split their consciousness into thousands of parts.
Billions of years ago, before earth was even created, there was another planet during the moon period.  Moon period is simply a name, a definition that was given to refer to the time when the Angelic kingdom was incarnating.  During the moon period there was an etheric planet.  This was when the Angelic kingdom was incarnating in the flesh.  It was not a physical flesh, but rather Etheric flesh.  The Angelic kingdom never incarnated in a physical body.  The etheric plane was their physical plane.  Then came a period that many have called the great judgment day.  It is an evolutionary jump in the planet and all the life forms that inhabit the planet.  For us it is called the peace period.  During the peace period there are certain requirements.  Now beings that will cause chaos or destruction will be allowed to incarnate during the peace period.  Earths peace period will begin in the mid 2020's.  After that point, highly negative humans will not be allowed to reincarnate on Earth.  After the 1000 years of peace, those beings will be given another chance.  If they continue their present destructive path then they will become the next demons for the Animal kingdom.  One day the Animal kingdom will evolve to a spiritual state where they will have minds and will be at our present level.  For those of the human kingdom that will fall, they will be left behind and will plague the Animal kingdom just as the present fallen Angelic kingdom plagues the human kingdom.
Where are the fallen angels?  They are in the etheric and astral planes.  They fell.  The other 2/3 thirds of the Angelic kingdom evolved spiritually.

These are things that you need to prove for yourself.  The out of body projections is a great place to start.  When you can prove to yourself with out a doubt that nearly 100% of the time you are not creating your own dream / self created world while out of body then you can begin to visit the astral akashic records and eventually the more accurate mental akashic records.  There you can view history for yourself.  You can study history.  You will be able to take classes while out of body.  You may visit the Hall of Records.  I am not asking you to take my word.  My whole point here at astralpulse is to get people to be open for new ideas and to prove it for themselves and to consider that there are beings who have done so that you may learn from and consider their teachings.  There may be 99% fake mystics out there that make money off others.  But I found my proof and know there are real mystics.  For those people who are ready, there will be that mystic who is very much willing to help those help themselves.

Peace,
Paul

[Stookie]

Monroe obviously wrote his book so the average Joe with no knowledge of these things could understand it. If he started talking about "group consciousness" and "karma" he would scare a lot of people off. He wanted to stay away from the New Age crowd.

His "I-there" was a group consciousness. Why wouldn't it be that his "I-there" was part of a larger group consciousness that consists of all humans? And his "I-there" was/is fulfilling a task of THAT group consciousness? (this could go in circles forever). He also implies that everyone has an "I-there" and similar multiple earth-incarnations.  If that's what everyone's doing, wouldn't that be what Earth is about? Isn't that Karma? On one level it's a personal thing, but on another it's for all of humanity? The microcosm and macrocosm? (seriously, I'm confusing myself).

[pmlonline]

Hello Pmlonline

Could you throw some light on the idea of concrete thought.  I mean I understand the idea of concrete ideas in terms of language, but what does it mean in a spiritual order?

Hello taoita

Basically concrete thought is the lower part of your mental unit and abstract thought is the higher part of your mental unit.  Concrete thought is the usual logical thinking.  Abstract though is higher form of though that many great people such as Tesla used.  On the other hand, this is not to be confused with Intuition.  The Intuition body is even higher than the mental body / unit.

I hope that helps,
Paul

[pmlonline]

I think it's extremely naive to think "I farted in a guys salad in this life, so in my next life I will get my salad farted on". Karma is much more detailed and complicated than that.

Hi Stookie,

I think of Karma as only an energy pattern that we create for ourselves.  I see it as only energy.  If we die then even that small amount of energy such as you said "farting in a guys salad" is also carried on when the next life occurs.  I don't think our higher self cares if it is a little bit of energy or a whole lot.  In other words, there is not threshold where our higher self says, "Oh what the heck, I'll let the lower self get away with this one and I'll just throw away that energy."  I don't think it is the higher selves choice to just throw away energy.  That energy must go somewhere.  When we reincarnate, we continue on where we left off; i.e., the karmic energy is still there.  I firmly believe each person has a higher self and it is that higher self which is part of us.  Our higher self, which is part of us, must do something with that energy.

Peace,
Paul

[MisterJingo]

A few posts back I stated that karma is a self created condition and you said no it is not, it is a law created by a group consciousness. So which is it?

I don't see where I said that.  I believe that I clearly stated that the law of karma was created by the group consciousness as part of the universe.  I also stated that that our actions creates energy patterns and that is Karma.  There is a difference between the actual law and the effect.  For example, in modern science, the electric force is a law of the universe and an particular proton going by an electron is an effect.

In my experience the physical universe is a small part of creation as a whole, or by the universe are you encompassing all of creation? By it's very definition of being a subjective experience, causality cannot be applied to the astral, as it is very possible to break causality in imagination.
Electric force is not a force of the universe it is simply a force that exists between two charged objects. The disparity of force between the two charged objects is the cause, and the migration (propagation) of electrons is the effect. It should be noted that there is a possibility of other universes with differing initial conditions and particle charges which would make it possible that electrons might not flow between charged poles.

A law by definition is a rule set which is enforced, and as you stated it is a law created by a group consciousness, then you are literally stating that karma is a rule set enforced by a group consciousness. how can an externally created law be an innate internal process?

It is not an externally created law.  Everyone created it, which includes you.  It is an agreement, not an entity or something.  It is something you, your higher and divine self agreed to.

Well I have no experience or knowledge of this and many others haven't. I am not going to take on board unproven belief systems because others insist they are correct. Many people, including Monroe, stated repeatedly that belief is not a known, and never take anything in as a known which has not been personally verified to a high degree.

Life as we know it on Earth is false. Earth is simply a belief system with no greater importance than an infinite other number of belief systems. if you believe Earth has some great importance then that is an Ego produced belief. "Where I am is important".

That's an odd statement.  I think everyone is important.  I see no ego in that.  Everyone is just as important.

You are misreading my intentions. Everyone is important, but people see "their place" as more important than others. Your repeated instance that actions in our Earth astral location are devastating in a Karmic sense (i.e. death) seems to suggest an exaggerated importance of action in this astral locale over that of others.
If I decided to create an astral location where people can inhabit forms I generate there, would the intentional ending of one of those forms also carry tremendous karmic debt?

Death is an impossibility, making someone exit a belief system is not a terrible act, that is what I said. You seem to be caught up in the human concepts of death rather than seeing Earth as a simple astral locale.

I even quoted you.  Here it is again, "The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death."  We all agree that you go to the Etheric and then the Astral when your physical dies.  If you murder somebody then you will have great karma, period.  It is not your decision to say when a person is to leave the physical plane.

The only reason I mentioned the murder of a billion lives is because you originally brought up such an absurd statement. We are speaking hypothetically here.
Is Karmic debt only relevant to human beings, or do we accrue Karmic debt when we kill animals? Is that the same amount of debt or less? What if we kill insects? How much debt is that. Also, what if we kill plant life (which is a form of life), do we gain debt for that too? At what form of life do we stop accruing debt for? I am being serious with this question, so please answer it.

Please tell me how it is possible to truly kill anything? I am not talking about this death construct built into this astral locale.

Death obviously means when a body no longer operates and dissipates into energy.  The physical can die.  Your astral also die.  When you die physically you go to the etheric planes for healing.  There you will be asleep for some time.  Then you pass on to the Astral.  There you will live for a while, say 150 years.  Then you pass on to the mental realms and eventually your higher self will recreate all of your bodies again and the rebirth process starts over UNLESS you have been liberated from the continuous cycle of reincarnation.  Being liberated means that you do not have sufficient karma on the physical plane and therefore you no longer need to reincarnate.

All I can say is that this does not agree with any of my and many other peoples findings. Monroe also didn't have any beliefs which seem remotely similar to this. He stated that Earth was an environment created by some beings to farm a form of energy produced through negative conditions. We curls decided to come and incarnate in beings which are formed here. My experience to date is along the lines of this

Please answer this question: If I was in the astral and I put my arms around another being and I phased into another astral location with them, is this a terrible deed? THey have simply moved from one location to another.
Well even Monroe stated that he hopes one day humans will see this Earth life system for what it is, so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment. Are you saying Monroe is wrong here?

IMHO you are really confusing things to the point where it is dangerous for you.  Monroe wanted people to consider death a good thing!  OK?  He never wanted people to think that another being could murder someone and that is a good thing!  It is NOT your right to murder someone's physical or their astral.  Additionally I will tell you straight up that suicide is one of the greatest sins of all because that physical body was created by your higher self, that god part of you.  I am sorry, if you murder someone or commit suicide then that is a sure route to the lowest astral hells.  Again, read you statement, "so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment."  And also you said, "The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death."

Please do not get caught up on the murder issue. You brought up that topic so I replied but you seem to have ignored everything I have said on that issue. I think your attitude regarding suicide is totally irresponsible and fear mongering. Monroe stated indirectly that suicide was not a terrible act and no bad action would follow because of it. Have you actually witnessed anything personally other than words in a book or the words of others which tells you differently?

The entire of creation is in a constant state of destruction and construction. So creation is bad due to its destructive methods? Death can be seen as destruction, yet it is essential to the continuation of life. I don't really know what you are trying to say here?

I posted on this topic some time ago.  The universe is always in a state of construction in totality.  The universe is always evolving in totality.  Long ago 1/3 of the Angelic kingdom fell.  That is prime example of the way of things.  The point is, most of the Angelic kingdom evolved; i.e., 2/3 evolved and 1/3 fell.  I believe the Universe is God.  I also believe that God in totality is good.  There is an old saying, "In order for the new to come forth, the old must be destroyed."  That is birth pains, also known as growing pains.  Evolution is about change for the good.  Yes you can view life in totality as good.  For any object of any size can view viewed as good / positive or bad / negative.  Again, if you consider all things, then yes it is good, in totality.  If you consider a particular part such as a star exploding, then if the process is destruction then that by itself is not good.  You may frown on that idea, but you must know that there are various levels of good and bad.  For example, the actual physical material that makes up the star is not a highly evolved consciousness relative to you.  If you were to see the higher energies involved in that star explosion you would see there is a highly evolved life form.  On that level it is a new birth and that life form moves on to a great place.  So when considering the all realms then it may be a good thing.  Back to you example of murder.  It is not in the best interest to that life form to end its physical existence.  Your lower left is not spiritually evolved to make such decisions.  It is entirely up to that individual's higher self to decide when it is time to die physically, not yours.  When you murder some or commit suicide, you are not improving that person or yourself spiritually.

Well that totally disagrees with any scientific view of the universe. You state science yet you must ignore it's fundamental principles. Evolution is pure mindless mutation. The healthier mutations survive as they improve on some condition. There is no master plan in evolution, there is no goal. Evolution will continue forever mindlessly.
Regarding the rest of the above, if you answered my question above, then that should be answered.

Edit: Where is this kingdom of fallen angels and does it have any relevance outside of those who do not follow Christianity? I would hate to even attempt a guess at how many beliefs and religions exist throughout the entirety of creation, do all the ones which do not have a concept of angel now become void?

As you know, the fallen Angelic Kingdom is not a religion and I hope you do not believe Christians created it.  There are many great beings in creation that are very real consciousness just as you are real.  For example, Lord Christ is not a made up being.  Lord Buddha is not a made up being.  Master Jesus is not a made up being.  At age 33 Master Jesus allowed Lord Christ to manifest for 3 years.  Master Jesus is a being that is part of the human kingdom.  Lord Christ is a being that is part of the Archangel kingdom.  At present, Lord Christ is the most spiritual evolved being of the Archangel kingdom.  Archangels are a little bit beyond our understanding.  They are so spiritually evolved relative you and I that they each are a group consciousness.  That is, they can split their consciousness into thousands of parts.
Billions of years ago, before earth was even created, there was another planet during the moon period.  Moon period is simply a name, a definition that was given to refer to the time when the Angelic kingdom was incarnating.  During the moon period there was an etheric planet.  This was when the Angelic kingdom was incarnating in the flesh.  It was not a physical flesh, but rather Etheric flesh.  The Angelic kingdom never incarnated in a physical body.  The etheric plane was their physical plane.  Then came a period that many have called the great judgment day.  It is an evolutionary jump in the planet and all the life forms that inhabit the planet.  For us it is called the peace period.  During the peace period there are certain requirements.  Now beings that will cause chaos or destruction will be allowed to incarnate during the peace period.  Earths peace period will begin in the mid 2020's.  After that point, highly negative humans will not be allowed to reincarnate on Earth.  After the 1000 years of peace, those beings will be given another chance.  If they continue their present destructive path then they will become the next demons for the Animal kingdom.  One day the Animal kingdom will evolve to a spiritual state where they will have minds and will be at our present level.  For those of the human kingdom that will fall, they will be left behind and will plague the Animal kingdom just as the present fallen Angelic kingdom plagues the human kingdom.
Where are the fallen angels?  They are in the etheric and astral planes.  They fell.  The other 2/3 thirds of the Angelic kingdom evolved spiritually.

These are things that you need to prove for yourself.  The out of body projections is a great place to start.  When you can prove to yourself with out a doubt that nearly 100% of the time you are not creating your own dream / self created world while out of body then you can begin to visit the astral akashic records and eventually the more accurate mental akashic records.  There you can view history for yourself.  You can study history.  You will be able to take classes while out of body.  You may visit the Hall of Records.  I am not asking you to take my word.  My whole point here at astralpulse is to get people to be open for new ideas and to prove it for themselves and to consider that there are beings who have done so that you may learn from and consider their teachings.  There may be 99% fake mystics out there that make money off others.  But I found my proof and know there are real mystics.  For those people who are ready, there will be that mystic who is very much willing to help those help themselves.

Peace,
Paul

To me the above sounds like a religious belief system and nothing more. I have not seen even an atom of evidence to suggest any of what you write. I have every belief that people who die will find their deities, but my experience would suggest that these deities are no true creator, they are possibly highly advanced thought forms given power and strength by the belief of their followers.
What of the nonhuman life systems, the countless trillions of alien plants whose life and consciousness resembles nothing of our own? My problem with all this is that it is so human centred, its imagery is human, its logic and belief type is human and it encompasses only human knowns. Human existence, logic, ideologies are all just one of countless which exist throughout creation. I cannot deny that you might have seen proof, but that is the nature of the astral, we interpret it through our own belief systems. If you believe in such things, that is what you will find.

[MisterJingo]

Monroe obviously wrote his book so the average Joe with no knowledge of these things could understand it. If he started talking about "group consciousness" and "karma" he would scare a lot of people off. He wanted to stay away from the New Age crowd.

His "I-there" was a group consciousness. Why wouldn't it be that his "I-there" was part of a larger group consciousness that consists of all humans? And his "I-there" was/is fulfilling a task of THAT group consciousness? (this could go in circles forever). He also implies that everyone has an "I-there" and similar multiple earth-incarnations.  If that's what everyone's doing, wouldn't that be what Earth is about? Isn't that Karma? On one level it's a personal thing, but on another it's for all of humanity? The microcosm and macrocosm? (seriously, I'm confusing myself).

He did seem to suggest that his "I-there" was part of a larger group which is waiting for all "I-theres" to find their missing parts. I just think the traditional interpretation of Karma is too loaded to use in regards to I-there finding their knowns and parts. If some of them suddenly decided to go exploring as they couldn't be bothered any more, no negative action would come of it. Perhaps the other I-theres would simply incarnate more to take their place and when the time to 'blast off', as Monroe put it, came, the exploring I-there would come back to take its place.
The I-theres seem to be explores of self and reality, trying to find their source, they are not compelled by anything other than the desire to grow and explore.

[pmlonline]

If I decided to create an astral location where people can inhabit forms I generate there, would the intentional ending of one of those forms also carry tremendous karmic debt?

People project into a group consciousness and create their own forms, but if you wanted to create a world and provide other people with a form then the form is your energy and you can do as you wish with that energy.  Same goes with your physical body.  Your higher self created your lower self and it has the right to do as it wishes with it, which will always be in your best interest.

The only reason I mentioned the murder of a billion lives is because you originally brought up such an absurd statement.

Actually it is not as absurd as you may think.  If you look into akashic records you should see that a very old civilization in Orion destroyed an entire planet in the Pleiades.  Of course this was long ago when the Pleiades was young.  Such an action now would be met with great force by the Pleiades, who are now very advance technologically.

We are speaking hypothetically here. Is Karmic debt only relevant to human beings, or do we accrue Karmic debt when we kill animals? Is that the same amount of debt or less? What if we kill insects? How much debt is that. Also, what if we kill plant life (which is a form of life), do we gain debt for that too? At what form of life do we stop accruing debt for? I am being serious with this question, so please answer it.

Yes.  I mentioned before that even when you move your finger you have created an energy pattern.  That is karma.  I hope you are not looking at karma as some debt or even punishment.  It is a way that all beings learn to be responsible for their actions.  You're not really going to notice much karma from just moving your finger, lol, but none the less that energy must be released somehow and you will not really notice it.  Karma is simply relative to your effect.  How to equate the life of an ant relative to a human is beyond me.  It is difficult enough to just calculate the effect from two oppositely charged particles.  I can tell you that there is less negative karma (what you would probably consider negative) when dealing with the animal kingdom than dealing with the human kingdom.  Further more, there is far less karma when dealing with the plant kingdom.

All I can say is that this does not agree with any of my and many other peoples findings. Monroe also didn't have any beliefs which seem remotely similar to this. He stated that Earth was an environment created by some beings to farm a form of energy produced through negative conditions. We curls decided to come and incarnate in beings which are formed here. My experience to date is along the lines of this

First, that seems vague.  I can think of numerous ways to interpret those words into what mystics are saying.  Monroe uses different lingo.  Second, I do not believe Monroe was a liberated being.  But getting past that, I said several things in your quote.  1. When you die, you go to the Etheric plane to heal and prepare for your new astral life.  2. That the astral body eventually dies.  3. Then you pass to the mental realms.  4. The rebirth starts over unless you have liberated yourself.  So do you actually believe your astral body lives for ever?  If so then you agree with #2.  Do you believe there is a place that people go after they die for rest and healing?  If so then you agree with #1.  What part do you disagree with?  You said Monroe believes earth was created by some beings.  The mystics I follow say the same thing.  You said that Monroe believes these beings farm a form of energy produced through negative conditions.  That really sounds like a very brief statement by Monroe that I am sure if you were to ask him to elaborate on that you would be surprised what he would say.  Yet again, I know Monroe did not reach the level of spiritual development that I require in a teacher.  That's just my own personal requirement.

Please do not get caught up on the murder issue. You brought up that topic so I replied but you seem to have ignored everything I have said on that issue. I think your attitude regarding suicide is totally irresponsible and fear mongering. Monroe stated indirectly that suicide was not a terrible act and no bad action would follow because of it.

You might want to show a direct quote of Monroe saying that.  I do not think Monroe would say such a terrible thing.

Well that totally disagrees with any scientific view of the universe. You state science yet you must ignore it's fundamental principles. Evolution is pure mindless mutation.

The universe is guided by higher beings.  Please, lets not even think that modern material scientists have the answers on that.  They can't even see the etheric planes much less the astral and higher realms.

The healthier mutations survive as they improve on some condition. There is no master plan in evolution, there is no goal. Evolution will continue forever mindlessly.

LOL, well you posed a claim with no backbone so I cannot comment on it.

Regarding the rest of the above, if you answered my question above, then that should be answered.

I believe that I have answered all of your questions.

To me the above sounds like a religious belief system and nothing more. I have not seen even an atom of evidence to suggest any of what you write. I have every belief that people who die will find their deities, but my experience would suggest that these deities are no true creator, they are possibly highly advanced thought forms given power and strength by the belief of their followers.

When you learn how to project and see correctly then you will get the answers to your questions.  Refer to my suggested tests.

What of the nonhuman life systems, the countless trillions of alien plants whose life and consciousness resembles nothing of our own? My problem with all this is that it is so human centred, its imagery is human, its logic and belief type is human and it encompasses only human knowns. Human existence, logic, ideologies are all just one of countless which exist throughout creation

You say that because you have not studied such teachings.  I have crammed a few ideas into your mind which normally takes years to learn.  There is no way you could possibly conceive a clear picture of what I am trying to tell you.  First, the Archangels cover just our solar system.  Ok?  Other solar systems have Archangels.  It is a process of spiritual evolution.  The Angelic kingdom covers just our planet.  Other planets have their own Angelic kingdom.  One problem that people such as yourself have is getting past the issues and problems that religions have posed on society over the 1000's of years.  That is not my problem.  I can only urge you and others to get past it and seek the truth.  I already have my personal proof.  I proved my obe's were real.  I found my teachers and they do not write and sell books and speculate on trivial questions that you and I are talking about.  They are at a level where such ideas are extremely simple to test and find the truth.  It is not my place to prove anything to you.  Surely you believe there are extraterrestrials that can travel to earth that have technology far beyond ours.  They do not land and prove things to Earth.  Surely you believe there is life after death.  They do not manifest and prove things to Earth.  Perhaps you should ponder why this is so.  I said Earth was a class.  It is not my place or anyone's place to prove anything to you.  All I suggest to everyone here is don't give up on the ideas I mentioned.  Don't give up on the idea that there are super human beings incarnated in physical bodies on Earth right now.  Yes, every group has their own lingo.  Every group has their own interpretation.  Yes, nobody has 100% accurate answers.  Yes, some groups do not even have 50% correct answers.  Consider this.  If an Archangel exists, then do you not think such a being could find more accurate answers then say Monroe or even a Mystic?

I cannot deny that you might have seen proof, but that is the nature of the astral, we interpret it through our own belief systems. If you believe in such things, that is what you will find.

What if I told you that there are groups of people who project every night and come back with the same memories in the flesh?  My biggest point here at astralpulse right now is that most projectors do create their own self illusions while projecting, but with time and effort that will go away.  Anyone can prove it to themselves.

Peace,
Paul

[IequalMC2]

Those are some good diagrams Pmonline, thanks for presenting them to tune in. I know you understand all this.

"Basically concrete thought is the lower part of your mental unit and abstract thought is the higher part of your mental unit. Concrete thought is the usual logical thinking. Abstract though is higher form of thought that many great people such as Tesla used. On the other hand, this is not to be confused with Intuition. The Intuition body is even higher than the mental body unit."

I'm sure you understand. I'm just presenting what your thoughts evoked in me for anyone to read. Please don't get Karma freaky with me.  

Abstract Mind and Concrete Mind as it is written are both reflections of the same thing, its one big mirror to look at ourselves. Not one is above the other. Intuition is the use of the concrete mind and the abstract mind combined. You have to know your concrete mind, to make connections with the abstract mind.

Abstract thought is where we make connections, as I call them Link-ups, threads or whatever you want, are made on intuition. If you link up one star with another star and so on you'll eventually you might form an abstract pattern, that will only have relevance to yourself, the pattern you feel and see is intuition, and intuition is creative imagination knowing the difference between real and non-real 'illusion'.

The same with abstract thought, Connections formed obviously depend on the personality memory experiences and desire, all the other things mentioned.  

I believe everyone's Abstract Mind records thought in a different way, this due to the memories and experiences that have affected the individual, creed color ect. Faith in Religion helps to bring about mystical states, not Holosync, here's a cheap version of holosync, move your left hand in a circle moving towards you and let your right hand do the opposite, keep the rhythm going then change directions.    

Pmonline thanks for helping me think of this.

Visualize and look at this magic carpet blowing in the evening wind, now reverse it and delete its threads, at whatever speed you want slow or fast, now re-thread the carpet  tightly or slowly any speed you want, re-threaded, it becomes solid like concrete, that's the magic carpet almost in its most word perfect form.          

Hope I've said something interesting.

Blessings

Brad

PS- Which way did the Archangels Fall?

ADDED VIOLET LIGHT

[pmlonline]

Hi,

I'm just curious if that information is something you just designed on your own?

Abstract Mind and Concrete Mind as it is written are both reflections of the same thing, its one big mirror to look at ourselves. Not one is above the other.

The word Above in mysticism usually means "higher in vibration."  Not that you said it, but I just wanted to clarify that abstract and concrete thoughts have nothing to do with physical brain.  They are part of the Menal unit, which is a body of energy in a higher realm than your Astral and Etheric bodies.  Real mystics have divided the mental realm into seven areas.  Additionally there is also two very distinct areas-- the Abstract and concrete.  Abstract thought is in the higher half of the  mental realm and concrete the lower half.

Intuition is the use of the concrete mind and the abstract mind combined. You have to know your concrete mind, to make connections with the abstract mind.

No offense but this really sounds like a theory you designed.  The information I am referring to comes from very adept beings who are liberated off the reincarnation cycle.  You could call them super human beings.
Intuition comes from yet an even higher realm beyond the Mental realm.  Truthfully Brad, Intuition really doesn't have much to do with the Mental unit.  The Intuition is reflected in the Astral / Desire / Emotional body.  As you know, the Astral body is where our emotions come from.  That is why emotions and intuition are so related.  Most intuitive people will say as example "I am feeling that your grandfather will recover soon."  Also people say, "I have a gut feeling."  The Male on earth has a more powerful Physical body.  The Female has a more powerful Astral body.  Since intuition is reflected on the Astral / Emotional realm, that is why females on average are more intuitive than males.
Males are more focused on the Physical and Mental whereas females are more focused on the Astral / Emotional and Intuition.  That is why so many psychic men prefer the company of women because women *on average* have a higher vibration.  If every country in the world had a female as president then there wouldn't be all the wars.  Of course, there are some females that are not as focused on Emotional & Intuition.  If what you said were true then average male would be more intuitive than average female.


Maybe you and others here could answer a few questions for me.  It seems some people here relish, I mean really relish the idea of finding truth on their own.  Yes, obviously anyone can see why it would be so attractive.  Don't get me wrong.  I am a truth seeker, so in that sense I am seeking truth on my own.  What I mean is so many here want to create their own theories.  Although, can you people see where I am coming from?  I mean, for starters, don't you people really think that there might be people walking around today that have 24/7/365 continuity of consciousness?  FYI, continuity of consciousness is when someone never loses consciousness.  That is, when they go to bed, they simply slip out of body in full consciousness and remain conscious the entire time.  I am talking about people who could physically vanish right before your eyes or read your mind, etc.  Long ago I always had a strong gut feeling there were such people in society.  In fact, the gut feeling was so strong that I knew it!  So I began my trek early on in life.  I went and saw everyone from channelers to psychics.  I found most people to be sincere but not all that gifted.  I mean most were gifted to some degree.  After years of searching I finally found what I was searching for.  I found my answer.  So on a personal note, I know for a fact these mystics exist and they are walking around us in society.  And they are not the ones who advertise and try to prove their abilities to people.

Question 1, do you people have this intense inner gut feeling that such superhuman mystics walk amongst us in the flesh.

Question 2,  do you have the drive to find such people?

Question 3, don't you think such people have a better chance at finding the non-physical truths than you?  Again, such people = people who have continuity of consciousness, can project at will in seconds, can and have proven their obe's are real nearly 100% of the time and not self-created, who can teleport astral, etherically as well as physically.

Peace,
Paul

[Stookie]

1. When in my late teens I was drawn towards meditation and started my task of learning what it is. Then I found Monroe's "Ultimate Journey". Things that were mentioned in that book really sparked my interest in what might be - especially when he mentioned the he/she being living on this Earth who was supposedly one of the most advanced beings here. I do believe such beings exist.

Which led me to...

2. A strong desire to learn more. In my searching I found the teachings of Rudolph Steiner (founder of Anthroposophy or Spiritual Science), who pretty much has the same info that you've presented. However, I never had the drive to find such "superhumans" because I figured I needed to develop more of myself before any type of meeting could be possible, if ever possible.

3. I'm sure they have a better chance at finding non-physical truths than me. But can they really help me to Astral Project? Isn't that something I have to do on my own? I think that once I'm proficient in projecting, I'll be able to confirm what they say through my own explorations. Right now, I'm still trying to maintain a decent focus 10.

I'm assuming you've gone through Rosicrucian initiations. Is it really as simple as signing up?

[IequalMC2]

So we should stop thinking, and trying to hear and interpret our souls call, and we should remain silent. This topic is self-evident and pointless.

Self-evident because, two people who share basically the same views can hurt each other due to explaining the influence of the absent third party member.

There's a lot of room here for misunderstanding! So breath and think.

Yes
No
No

That Information came directly from 'Source', directly from the Tree you posted above. I would like to say it was something I designed on my own, but I don't think I'm that clever, I might call on its unmanifested confidence, for awhile to make myself feel better (believing that its all me), but not often. Thoughts like that come from UP.

My understanding is an acumination, of genuine discussions, and the linking together of every abstract thought I've swam in like the above, when I say whatever comes to me to describe what I'm thinking with my loose tongue.

I've also read a lot of useless books, studied lots of teachings and communed with invisible teachers (while reading). And decoded all my light that has been switched on. (Most people are still possessed by there own light.)  

I don't need to Astral Project. I'm out of body now. If I need to I'll be sent one.

Pmonline,

It is my understanding of the information you just posted, interpreted by my logical concrete lower mind, running in flow, consciously in this group conscious thought river, therefore that information obviously came from you!

But before it came from you it came from me when I decided talk about Karma the other day, which you think has affected the group, so you decided to demonstrate, your freewill, by bringing up the K word, and warning me and anyone else that Karma can't be overcome.  

Does it not occur to you that some people need to believe that Karma can be overcome in order just to live through a day; do you know the anomaly, and its effect?

Max Hiendel says nothing; Information is put down in order for the lower mind to communicate into abstract thought, Visa Versa, on earth we have lots of religions, therefore religion itself is used as a trigger, that's how higher beings see it, they are indifferent.  

I don't like using my tongue like this, but you made me an offer I can't refuse.

Max Hiendel and the Super human beings agree with me.

"No offense but this really sounds like a theory you designed. The information I am referring to comes from very adept beings who are liberated off the reincarnation cycle. You could call them super human beings."

Explaining your understanding of Max's teachings, 'Your Theory' which works well for almost everyone Christian, also contains lots of information to 'decode' for any religion new or old, the memory of nature put down to consciously decode not read.

As it is written:

"You say that because you have not studied such teachings. I have crammed a few ideas into your mind which normally takes years to learn. There is no way you could possibly conceive a clear picture of what I am trying to tell you"

That's explaining to you how it is, and I'm also interested in learning karmic lessons.

I know what you're trying to do.

You lead them you know where you're going, I'm always uncertain.


Which way did the Archangels Fall?

[pmlonline]

IequalMC2,

First, that green text is really hard to read, lol.  I just press Ctrl A on my keyboard to make it easier to read.

I am learning what personalities types are advantageous to converse with.  What I've learned is that when two people's view on life so different that it does very little good to try and meet on common ground.  I think that perhaps you and I are like that.  Truthfully, I think that we would have to write back and forth so much before we would see eye to eye / common ground that it would fill up an encyclopedia, lol.  According to your answers, you said No for the last two.  Meaning, you do not believe there are people incarnated in the flesh who have such mentioned abilities.  Right off the bat we have a massive disagreement.

To that effect, we just really disagree in a big way.  In fact, we seem to be so different that there are massive misconceptions taking place between our replies.  For example, you wrote "so you decided to demonstrate, your freewill, by bringing up the K word, and warning me and anyone else that Karma can't be overcome."  For the life of me IequalMC2, I cannot even begin to understand why you would say that because it is the farthest from what I have said.  I never once said Karma can't be overcome.  Either you are speed reading my posts or I just do not see where you are coming from.  I think we are just very different personalities.  I do not think it is wise for me to correct the other things that you believe I said.

That being said,  I truly hope we can agree to disagree.

Peace,
Paul

[pmlonline]

Heelo Stookie,

I think we see more on common ground.  I love to read other theories and opinions but sometimes the other person is so far away in consciousness that for me it is like looking into a kaleidoscope.

I know what you are saying about first developing yourself before looking for such mystics.  Perhaps I got lucky because as you know the teachers do say that the student must first be ready.  On the other hand, that inner drive in me to search for this person was so strong that I couldn't ignore it.

Such mystics could indeed force you to have an obe, but you are correct in that they would not do such a thing.  It could cause damage to your energy system and such.  I don't think they want to help you do it.  Rather, they want to help you help yourself.  You've heard to old saying, "Give me a fish, feed me for a day. Teach me to fish, feed me for a lifetime."

There are a lot of different Rosicrucian organizations.  Personally I merely interested in the information, not all of that initiation stuff.  Yes, it is as easy as signing up, but the organizations are ran by non-initiates.  I know they call themselves initiates, but I am told that a real initiate will not refer to him or herself as such.  I see all of the initiation ceremonies as religious.  There are a lot Rosicrucian organizations that do not do that ceremonial stuff.  Max Heindel never did that stuff.  He would never promote anyone to a 1st degree initiate.  True initiations are an expansion, a real change in your bodies and spiritual development.

Peace,
Paul

[IequalMC2]

Paul,

I mutually agree with you, and it feels so good!

I just manifest my thoughts a little differently, when learning I don't read or think, I decode and manifest. So my answers might be confusing for everyone else, even me at first, but I know what they mean to me afterwards.  

Anyway

Much Love n Respect!

Brad

[MisterJingo]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been on vacation and have only just got back.

First, that seems vague.  I can think of numerous ways to interpret those words into what mystics are saying.  Monroe uses different lingo.  Second, I do not believe Monroe was a liberated being.  But getting past that, I said several things in your quote.  1. When you die, you go to the Etheric plane to heal and prepare for your new astral life.  2. That the astral body eventually dies.  3. Then you pass to the mental realms.  4. The rebirth starts over unless you have liberated yourself.  So do you actually believe your astral body lives for ever?  If so then you agree with #2.  Do you believe there is a place that people go after they die for rest and healing?  If so then you agree with #1.  What part do you disagree with?  You said Monroe believes earth was created by some beings.  The mystics I follow say the same thing.  You said that Monroe believes these beings farm a form of energy produced through negative conditions.  That really sounds like a very brief statement by Monroe that I am sure if you were to ask him to elaborate on that you would be surprised what he would say.  Yet again, I know Monroe did not reach the level of spiritual development that I require in a teacher.  That's just my own personal requirement.

Whether Monroe was a liberated being or not is purely personal opinion. But he does meet your criteria of being an advanced being, that is he could project at will, and not only that, he also had full contact with his 'I-There' (higher self) in any focus state of consciousness. He could phase into that astral within moments towards the end of his life on Earth. The statement about the beings farming energy was actually a central part of monroes new belief systems, he termed the energy 'loosh' and wrote a full chapter on the mechanism of Earth Life system and how it was created and evolved to produce this energy. Also, this concept was important to him as it was a shock revelation that 'the God of his childhood was dead' i.e. he saw what the Earth life system was and the God of his childhood had not created it, and did not watch lovingly over it, Earth was simply a construct to produce a refined energy form.
I believe you go into what I term the astral when you die, I also believe that one will experience their belief of death made manifest. That is a person will find themselves in a belief construct (the belief system territories) that matches what they truly think exists in the afterlife. It could be pearly gates, or one of the hells or heavens of other religions. Regarding energy bodies, I am not committing myself to any ideology on them. I have a feeling that the whole energy body system might simply be a deeply ingrained belief system, and if it is, I don't want to get bogged down within it. Further exploration will tell.

Monroe stated indirectly that suicide was not a terrible act and no bad action would follow because of it.

You might want to show a direct quote of Monroe saying that.  I do not think Monroe would say such a terrible thing.

Here is a direct quote:

If I knew with no trace of doubt what I would be and do after I died, it would change me radically. I could live my physical life to the fullest, without the shadow lurking behind every second, the shadow that says one wrong move and your time is up! If we knew that each of us had the option to depart when we were certain our physical future held no more light for us, how our lives would be transformed! If we had the assurance that, no matter what happens, we can continue our love bonding beyond the Earth Life System and time-space - if we were certain that when a loved one departs we would know beyond doubt where we can find him or her - what a wonderful freedom we would have!

Robert A. Monroe - Ultimate Journey, Chapter 16, page 230.

I think this idea is mentioned earlier in this series of books too, but I haven't had time to search through them yet.

Well that totally disagrees with any scientific view of the universe. You state science yet you must ignore it's fundamental principles. Evolution is pure mindless mutation.

The universe is guided by higher beings.  Please, lets not even think that modern material scientists have the answers on that.  They can't even see the etheric planes much less the astral and higher realms.

The above statement is moot. Most mystics and religious systems are bogged down with tremendous dogma which makes their view of reality as cloudy as the one currently described by science.

The healthier mutations survive as they improve on some condition. There is no master plan in evolution, there is no goal. Evolution will continue forever mindlessly.

LOL, well you posed a claim with no backbone so I cannot comment on it.

Backbone or not. I stand by that statement although I will add something to it, I will say evolution has no direction but it seems to tend towards complexity. If evolution has a direction please tell me what you regard this final state of creation to be, and also what will happen at this final state of creation.

To me the above sounds like a religious belief system and nothing more. I have not seen even an atom of evidence to suggest any of what you write. I have every belief that people who die will find their deities, but my experience would suggest that these deities are no true creator, they are possibly highly advanced thought forms given power and strength by the belief of their followers.

When you learn how to project and see correctly then you will get the answers to your questions.  Refer to my suggested tests.

I have been projecting since earliest childhood and can see very clearly.

What of the nonhuman life systems, the countless trillions of alien plants whose life and consciousness resembles nothing of our own? My problem with all this is that it is so human centred, its imagery is human, its logic and belief type is human and it encompasses only human knowns. Human existence, logic, ideologies are all just one of countless which exist throughout creation

You say that because you have not studied such teachings.  I have crammed a few ideas into your mind which normally takes years to learn.  There is no way you could possibly conceive a clear picture of what I am trying to tell you.  First, the Archangels cover just our solar system.  Ok?  Other solar systems have Archangels.  It is a process of spiritual evolution.  The Angelic kingdom covers just our planet.  Other planets have their own Angelic kingdom.  One problem that people such as yourself have is getting past the issues and problems that religions have posed on society over the 1000's of years.  That is not my problem.  I can only urge you and others to get past it and seek the truth.  I already have my personal proof.  I proved my obe's were real.  I found my teachers and they do not write and sell books and speculate on trivial questions that you and I are talking about.  They are at a level where such ideas are extremely simple to test and find the truth.  It is not my place to prove anything to you.  Surely you believe there are extraterrestrials that can travel to earth that have technology far beyond ours.  They do not land and prove things to Earth.  Surely you believe there is life after death.  They do not manifest and prove things to Earth.  Perhaps you should ponder why this is so.  I said Earth was a class.  It is not my place or anyone's place to prove anything to you.  All I suggest to everyone here is don't give up on the ideas I mentioned.  Don't give up on the idea that there are super human beings incarnated in physical bodies on Earth right now.  Yes, every group has their own lingo.  Every group has their own interpretation.  Yes, nobody has 100% accurate answers.  Yes, some groups do not even have 50% correct answers.  Consider this.  If an Archangel exists, then do you not think such a being could find more accurate answers then say Monroe or even a Mystic?

Please don't think that I haven't heard such ideas as these before, I have friends in all disciplines and have heard such ideas and even more outlandish ones in my time. if such ideas do not fit with my experience, I keep them as a store of knowledge, but it would be foolish of me to follow them. If an Archangels exist, logic does not follow that such a being knows more than Monroe or even a Mystic. They might know more of certain areas of the astral, such as I know more about the physical than a child, but that does not equate they are any closer to truth of creation, or are not lost in a complicated belief system. Having more knowledge, or knowing more tricks does not mean one is more advanced. If you have had experience in the astal then you would of seen beings with almost Godlike powers yet who are terribly lost in their own belief systems/kingdoms.
Please note that I do not deny the existence of such beings, their are beings out there which are so alien that people of our human mindset would not even recognise them as sentient, yet they are powerful. I just choose at this moment in time to not commit to belief systems which contain such beings as I'm not sure if such a thing is truly needed.