Energy Body

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MisterJingo

I've often wondered if the energy body (primary and secondary energy systems) is but a belief system which once bought into, could help with certain spiritual persuits.
Things I've learnt from OBEs is that physical body perception is a belief system which soon fades in the OBE state if awarness is not kept on the act of having a body. When the body is forgotten I have no body, I am but a point of awarness.
On many occassions I have morphed into the form of other animals or beings.
My question regards the existence of the energy bodie outside that of belief systems. Are energy bodies an innate part of consciousness? If so, what form do they take when (physically learnt) bodily awarness is forgotten; so the body fades? Also, what form do they take when we morph into other forms?
I guess I am am coming to the conclusion that the energy body is a belief and nothing 'absolute' or more.

Tom

So if a person doesn't have a belief that energy bodies don't exist then that person doesn't have an energy body?

Chakras and storage areas and so on are not the energy body. They are tools of the energy body which you can use to access it while in the physical.

MisterJingo

No. I have found (in my experience) that a person doesnt have an energy body until they believe in it and start to develop it with techniques (reinforce the belief through mental exertion.) To use an example: Monroe didnt believe in energy bodies, and yet still had amazing adventures in the astral.
If chakras and storage areas are not the energy body, where do they reside? Also, how do they fit into the experience of the body being a belief (ie was your form always that of a physical human body and the conventional mapped energy systems?) or when the body is actually another form other than that of 'human'? All energy reinforcement techniques I have learnt propose that certain meridians and chakras are in certain places in regards to the human form.

MisterJingo

I'm uncertain on this issue too, which is why I am asking others views :)
Regarding consciousness/matter interaction, I've always been of the mind that matter is a product of consciousness. Or put in a more articulate way, perception of matter is produced by the mind based upon some form of  'information input' (perhaps in a holographic view, perception of interference patterns which are interpreted as matter.)
I've been considering for a while if belief is all that is important. By this I mean there are many disciplines which lead to 'enlightenment', are all these disciplines correct? Or is it that total belief in them forms a pathway to 'enlightenment' (OBE etc) ? Considering energy bodies in this regard, energy work could construct a system which overlays the physical. More than this, it even attributes psychology/physiology to the model. So through repeated belief reinforcement over time, one has built a system in the mind for manipulating the body to cause desired effect. Is such a thing possible?
I've also been interested in the possibility of indigenous DMT (DiMethylTryptamine - one of the most powerful psychedelics known to man, and produced by the brain) being the cause of energy sensations in the body - intense ones such as vibrations or kundalini experiences. This isn't to reduce energy sensations to purely physical, but it might give them a physical mechanism of action. Reading reports of people who have taken external DMT shows striking resemblance to energy sensations which I seem to feel during OBE practice, and during some kundalini experiences. Reports also seem to show users entering astral like locales. So could the meditative techniques used to produce OBE produce a DMT release in the brain, and lowered sensory awareness increase its effects? I guess I am getting ahead of myself :)

Wackyd01

That's a really good question, I've read extensively about DMT as well.  Many people think DMT is THE physiological link which facilitates consiousness leaving the body, specifically at the time of death but also during meditation.  This would seem to explain the striking similarities between, as you said, meditation and reports from those who have taken DMT.  The idea makes alot of sense to me, although remain fairly controversial for obvious reasons.
I think it's true that belief can create reality, quite literally.  But I also think there is an overall structure or framework that was designed in which everyone works(at least in this stage of existence), and is subject to certain natural laws and so forth.  When I was young and new nothing about energy centers I often woke up in with intense vibrations and buzzing, I learned years later the buzzing corresponded to the so called chakras.  Alot of your ideas remind me of theories within quantum mechanics, many of which are forcing scientists to change their ideas about the nature of reality.  A great book is The Fabric Of The Cosmos, by Brian Greene.

MisterJingo

Thanks for the reply Wackyd01. I agree the whole DMT area is a very interesting one. A very good primer on this subject is a book by Rick Strassman, M.D. Called 'DMT The Spirit Molecule'. It follows a DEA granted research project into using DMT on live participants. It is a very fascinating book.
Regarding the buzzing of vibrations, this is why I mentioned DMT. Peoples accounts of the body sensations on this drug sound like experiences of the vibrations in people who practice OBE. Early man wouldnt of known about DMT, so they could of articulated the whole energy body idea which is now the norm, to explain this phenomena.
I sort of agree that there might be an overall structure or framework we are following. But I've even wondered if that is created by us. Or I should say created by repeated experiences settling out into some form of coherent structure (to us partaking in this whole sentient existence experience.)

Timothy Yuen

Hi MisterJingo,

I agree the mind is a point of consciousness with no dimension.  As you have observed, when "out-of-body" you can either have a body or not have a body depending on where your attention lies.  I would like to extend that to the "physical" realm as well...most people just have the habit of "having a body".  However, it is not necessary to perceive a "body" to operate in the physical.  I can't say that I've explored every life path, but it seems the ones I have encountered and practiced have all acknowledged this phenomenon.  By closely studying/meditating on what it is to "have a body", one realizes it is just a set of sensations/perceptions grouped in to a belief.

Now I'm not sure how you define "belief system", but I take that as "a pattern of thoughts that one acts upon as if the thoughts were similar to direct perception ("true") in order to create one's world".  If we take this definition, then I would say that the energy body is developed by a belief system.  Can one perceive an "energy body" without a belief about an energy body?  Difficult question, but my experience is that people without a particular belief can perceive what I might term an energy body or "energetic sensations" (their's or someone else's).  Now what they do with that is where belief comes in to interpret that into something meaningful to the creation of their world (their life).  They may have a belief about what the perceptions of "energy" mean (that it is a spirit, soul, etheric body, electromagnetic energy, etc.).  They may go searching for one.  They may just file it away as an anomaly and forget about it.

So I guess my analysis comes to this--your belief system will inform you about your perceptions.  Some sort of belief system is necessary if you want to integrate that perception into coherent experience.  Even "energetic sensations" and words to describe them ("vibrations", "tingling", etc.) are embedded in at least one belief system, and that is the English language.  Oooo...I feel a little Wittgenstein coming on...symbolic representations of perception as a language...

Tim :)

MisterJingo

Thanks with the lengthy reply Tim, and I agree with everything you said :)
I guess my problem is that I at least try and percieve to the core of things. For example what are these energetic sensations in their purest form? I don't mean where do they originate, I mean more of what are they to 'me'. It's like a fractal, detail upon detail. I feel something (what is 'feel' in relation to me, more so what is me?) in my bodily perception (what is body?) I guess I'm looking for the original point/part/conception of ideas/things within whatever I am. And that probably makes little sense :) Words are useless for this kind of self-analysis. It's more a knowing below the level of words, and perhaps a more abstract knowing below that. Another example which I've been pondering recently, and will sound very mundane, is sound. Sound is no different from sight in regards to it being a form of sensory input. So how do I actually perceive sound. Not in a biological sense. The biological model sends electrical pulses to my brain and then I have this sensation (what is sensation ?) of information we call sound. How to I 'sense' it internally, or perhaps more directly how does this sound information interact with what I perceive as self on an intellectual/abstract level?
As weird as this sounds, and it doesn't really touch the surface, I believe it is needed to come to some comprehension of what I am. We take so much for granted, or through need (belief) and then we build entire areas of knowledge and experience upon these unknowns. Its quite scary and liberating when you actually sit and look at everything you thought you knew, to realise you don't really know anything. Its taught or shared knowledge taken as fact. Even areas of belief, likes/dislikes are ripe for studying i.e. why do I actually dislike this, or like that etc. I know in essence it is recycling/restructuring the totality of my experience to-date with that same experience, but through continuous learning I add more to the store to reanalyse with (a never ending task?)

And now I have gone completely off-topic, I shall hit the post button and be quiet lol.

Timothy Yuen

Hehehe....looks like there are several subjects now all interrelated:  the nature of "energy bodies", the basis of metaphysics in language, and the purpose of having a metaphysical belief such as an energy body.

Ultimately, I agree that any language we have developed does not directly convey our perceptions.  And that goes back to the fundamental question "What am I?"  Of course, to have any kind of meaningful discussion using a language, we have to agree on some sort of assumptions.  I think that is why this topic is so interesting:  It seems the general consensus of those posting in this forum use some form of "energy body" as a basic belief (and suggest to others that it is a worthwhile belief), and now MisterJingo is questioning whether one needs that belief to have a meaningful discussion of projection, dreaming, etc. or if it is just a useful convention for relating experiences.

It's my general metaphysical belief (my interpretation of my perceptions) that in order to really know something one has to integrate that into their being.  To do so, one must create a set of limitations upon the infinite to experience that repeatedly and to become that which you limited yourself to.  You then release the limitations and live as your experience...this is the creative process.  In the case of energy bodies, one takes on the limitation of having an energy body to create it and become it in order to experience it.  Once the energy body is indistinguishable from your question "What am I?", you let go of the limitation to just be--you no longer HAVE an energy body, you ARE an energy body.

Now I guess the question becomes, why would one what to develop an "energy body"?

loco

Hi all,Let me jump in; (excuse me as english is not my mother´s language, I´ll try my best :? )


I think our belief system rather selects than creates our world. As William Blake´s famous sentence states: "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is: infinite" Is a selection, not a creation. I like to think about our everyday perception as a little laboratory we carry along. It can analyze and proceed as much data as it´s capable of...no more, usually much less. This laboratory equippement is set by our culture and education since the first moment we´re born.We´re tought to relate to the world like: This is a tree, see? Touch it ! It´s called T R E E, and so on...
But our energy body is there, all the time, since we are born too.(We´re made of energy too, we´re no exception).But is let appart as we are tought to percieve the world in terms of matter an solid and concret objects from the very first minute of our existence, not in energy terms, and we have all our enery reservoir at it.
Probably survival reasons drove manhood to percieve the otherwise energy nature of the universe in such a way. Some other cultures have still nowadays what we would call "paranormal" abailityes. Such as telepathy and others. Is probably time now to go back to the good old times, isnt it?

Mister Jingo´s first question states that physical body perception is a belief system and wonders wheter the energy body might be one as well.
I would say that physical body is product  of the way we have arranged our perception.An arrangement transmited generation by generation, so, yes, a belief system. But the energy body is a product of a NON belief system. You quit your everyday comon sense, beliefs and perception arrangements in order to get to your energy body.Or try at least. Wheter trough meditation , trance lucid dreaming (or DMT if you wish)...But your mind is quiet, silent...has just shut up. And if has shut up, it can´t belief.

Consciousness is a poin of awarness, yes, but arranged so is only aware of a physical world, and body. Is relatively easy to loss concience of our physical body. Just sleep and you do so.
But to drift the so well trained and accostumed conscience to our solid and physical world to have a coherent perception outside the everyday perception habits is a really tough work. OBE is such a coherent perception, and not easy as we all know. It takes energy, and we don´t have much left after every day life activityes.

Hope I have said something clear to you,so far
I´ll join in later
Cheers

redcatherine

Quote from: MisterJingoThings I've learnt from OBEs is that physical body perception is a belief system which soon fades in the OBE state if awarness is not kept on the act of having a body.

I agree , If  one has no need of the body in a particular OBE than it is the consciousness that leaves without a projection of the energy body . We can exit as pure thought or small as light and should learn to do this .

QuoteWhen the body is forgotten I have no body, I am but a point of awareness. On many occasions I have morphed into the form of other animals or beings.

In order to morph into an animal form there are 2 methods that I am aware of 1) is to ask a live animal's permission or pardon while you share the vehicle for the experience a method that is explained in hermetic materials much like in the animation Sword in the Stone . 2) the other is a manifestation of an animal form from the essence of our own energy body . We change our shape and can with time and practice appear to others in this form spiritually .But it is the energy body used a tool to do this .

QuoteAre energy bodies an innate part of consciousness?
I would say that they are . I have witnessed them even on the unaware . I feel there is a natural unfolding and development of the human energy body . I believe that it is in its understanding that we learn to strengthen it and use is marvelously . It is more than a belief system . One could be paralyzed completely unable to move a limb and on life support to operate the lungs and in a coma so deep as to be unaware of the physical body but it would still be there . So it is with the energy body . So many humans are completely unaware that they have this marvelous tool or toy for study or amusement but they exist . We can learn to see them to use them to morph them to project them . To modify them to be electric or magnetic in nature .  Until we learn to bring less of it with us in projection we cannot travel to higher dimensions . So it  may be  left behind entirely as we bi locate consciousness .


QuoteI guess I am am coming to the conclusion that the energy body is a belief and nothing 'absolute' or more.

As it can be sensed it is it tangible . In astral sex it can be felt . In readings it can be seen . In voice projection it can be heard . It can be felt seen and heard without the constraints of the physical body . It does not require a passport or permission to travel across the world . It does not have all the constraints of the physical nor all of its majesty either . It is much harder to employ an astral hug to comfort someone far away . The bond is both dual and strengthened when the recipient and the projector are in mutual accord .
Love . Light  and Laughter
Aunt Clair