The Astral Pulse
News: http://www.astralpulse.com/aup.html. Acceptable Use Policy for the forums. Please read and ensure that you respect these policies. Thank you.

If you wish the join The Astral Pulse, please create an account and then email myself or one of the moderators your username and email address (do not send us your password please) and we will activate your account for you. 
If it's been over 24 hours and you still haven't been approved, please send another email, we are just people too and sometimes we get busy.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/member_registration_requiring_approval-t42962.0.html

We apologize for any inconveniences this may cause, but it's the last resort we have to fighting the spam for now.
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. June 18, 2021, 18:41:10


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Experienced OBEr, but never from meditation, seeking help  (Read 5408 times)
Draege
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


View Profile Email
« on: November 02, 2005, 08:10:02 »

1 in 2 mornings I wake up, I luckily remember to try and have OBEs before I'm "too" awake. There are a multitude of methods I can go about getting there (phasing / relax into sleep paralysis + roll out / and others). Lets just say I'm very experienced at all the sensations / mental states / techniques / etc that go with it and its very easy to have 4-5+ projections in one morning.

However still a year and a half into this I cannot pull myself into an OBE from meditation- that is to say being awake and deciding to meditate and try to OBE. I can get the feeling of my body very light and floaty, I can get spinning sensations, etc etc. But my mind just won't let go it seems. I can't seem to find out what the secret is to bypassing this 'wall' that separates point a, as deep as I can go in meditation, from point b, that only barely awake state I'm in after waking that is SO easy to project from.

I've thought about going the mental exhaustion route. Any suggestions?
Logged
Mendel
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 85


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2005, 03:12:41 »

Draege,

 I've got a similar problem. I can OBE/AP regularly from lucid dreams/false
awakenings but not meditations. What's the deal?

 One possibility is that I have only hypnapompic OBE experiences. That is,
 as I'm waking up, rather than fallng a sleep - as in a meditation.

 Another possibility is that wall you speak of. Just can't let go completely.
 Maybe it's a defense mechanism for my sanity?

 Also, I'm one of those people that takes forever to fall asleep at night.  
Once again is the problem of letting go. If I could solve the OBE problem,
 I'd solve the sleep one, too.

 I do get cool experiences from meditations though, especially
 clauraudient things - where I can contact people's guides. Sometimes
 the info I pick up auditorily from the meditation route is more
 accurate than what I pick up from the OBE path. Although,
 OBE'ing/AP'ing is a lot more fun - full 3-D visual, audio, tactile, etc.

-mike
Logged
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2005, 03:12:41 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

 Logged
Draege
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2005, 06:02:17 »

I used to have problems falling asleep until I started meditating. Now when I want to fall asleep I simply "let go". Letting go is kind of like releasing my care of what is happening. The problem is I can't fake it, or to be more clear I can't let go when my TRUE intention is to remain conscious as I cross the sleep/awake border. I have to truely want to let go, and want nothing more than to give in to sleep, in order to be able to do it. Its an all or nothing deal. It seems impossible to cross the border consciously, no matter how much you focus on keeping your mind still and focused. You must be letting go to cross the border, and then hopefully you 'realize yourself' as soon as you've crossed. It seems plausible as a theory but I don't know if I can unwire my mind the way it is currently. I won't give up hope though.
Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2005, 07:59:30 »

Hey Draege...

Would you please give me a narrative of what happens when you exit by relaxing into sleep paralysis, as much detail as can?

I'll work on exiting going into sleep and come back and tell you what I find.

Thanks
Logged

Thanks...
Mendel
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 85


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2005, 17:02:05 »

Draege,

 Yep. A good sleep technique for me is to meditate for 30-45 mins. Then, I just turn over on my side and stop meditating. Then, I'm out in 10 minutes.
 Sometimes this procedure pays off as it is followed by an AP/LD in the morning.

-mike
Logged
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2005, 17:02:05 »



 Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2005, 17:41:23 »

Hey Mendel...

Would you please detail the actual process of exiting via this method? You roll over after you stop meditating, and then... ?

And how exactly do you meditate?
Logged

Thanks...
Mendel
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 85


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2005, 18:09:30 »

Oops, wrong word on this forum Smiley
 When I said I'm "out", I meant to say I'm "asleep".
 
-mike
Logged
Draege
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2005, 19:59:17 »

Well lkjewr, as I've never successfully had an OBE during meditation I can only tell you what I try. And that is I lay down on my back, relax my body a little bit, let it get comfortable and light feeling. I then either try exiting by clearing my mind as best I can and letting the feeling of my body fade away -OR- I try to phase straight into the OBE through visualization of scenes. By visualization I mean creating a scene in my head and following it through trying to immerse all my senses within it and trying not to notice my physical body at all. Either I do this or I try the 'noticing' exercise where I watch my blank mind fill randomly with images and just notice and discard each image until they get stronger and more vivid.
(EDIT, sorry I answered the wrong question)

Above is what I try when I meditate. All my successful exits however are in the morning. The one you specifically asked is when I relax into sleep paralysis. There's not much to say there because it is like 5% technique and 95% conditions. When you're in the right condition, or the right mental state I should say (not too awake but justttt awake enough) I simply clear my mind and feel my body relaxing/falling a bit and voosh, I'm instantly put into sleep paralysis. I experience heavy vibrations, and I simply roll out of my bed with my mental senses (mental aka imagined senses, as opposed to your physical body doing it). As soon as I roll out I'm in a full blown OBE.
Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2005, 20:13:18 »

Quote from: Mendel
Oops, wrong word on this forum Smiley
 When I said I'm "out", I meant to say I'm "asleep".
 
-mike


Kool. Thanks for clarifying. Smiley
Logged

Thanks...
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2005, 20:24:11 »

Interesting. Thank you for sharing and clarifying projector friend Draege. This helps much.

Perhaps I need to get over my desire to 'control'. I hate the idea of having to be at the whim of conditions, know what I mean? I'd like to be able to get out when I want, rather than having to sort of be slave to certain patterns and conditions.

Perhaps using conditions is a start to at-will ability.
Logged

Thanks...
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2005, 20:55:25 »

Hey Draege..

Last night I experimented with focusing on imagining looking at my hands as I went to sleep, trying to cause projection or get into a projection-ready state on my way into sleep. I fell asleep, but I think this is promising. Perhaps you can try this also and we can compare.
Logged

Thanks...
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2005, 01:14:59 »

Hey Draege..

I'm having success with the projection into sleep effort. Check it out:

* * *

11/7/05 – Success – First is a copy of the beginning of the experience, which was a success at getting imagery, the ending of my (formal) experiments into getting imagery:

* * *
11/7/05 – Success – I started practice at about 5:40 PM. I had just had a success less than thirty minutes previous with reaching theta via sitting and doing 4:2 ratio rhythmic breathing, with relaxing and sitting in stillness. I decided to go back to practice to continue to unwind, and further get successes. It helped to think of working with and to help a projection friend at the forums.  
The practice went basically the same as the previous. I sat and inhaled 4, held 2, exhaled 4, and held empty 2. I paid more attention to the feel of energy this time and it wasn’t really a tingling or a pins and needles. It was more like a very light but intimate full body rush of light energy. It was different, yet familiar. I’d never really paid so much attention to it before I guess.
I didn’t get any imagery sitting down, and several times through to quit the session but this time I decided to keep going to see what would happen with the energy. It felt well, a kind of teasing well. It wasn’t mind-blowing, but something was happening, and I knew it was healing so kept with it. I thought a bit of my life and happenings.
I decided after an indeterminate amount of time to lie down and see if either imagery would come, or I could get OBE into sleep as one of the threads at the forum and one of the members and I discussed, or if I could both get some imagery and get OBE going into sleep. I lay on my front; head turned to the side, and relaxed. I allowed my torso to rest on my ribcage and relaxed and released. I may have allowed or rather encouraged the energy to continue.
Shortly some imagery came. It was like… it just suddenly came. It was stronger. It is usual for a successive practice session to produce more progress than the proceeding practice session. There were signs there, and they were vivid enough for me to read. Just different signs were passing before me, as if dozens of signs were just floating around, and as they crossed before and behind each other I was able to reach whichever one was at the forefront at the moment.
Though I could clearly read each sign and clearly make them out, I didn’t or perhaps couldn’t like clearly remembering what the signs said. I didn’t try though. It’s similar to for instance when we read something, and then close the book, and then think, “What did I just read”. Though I may not have consciously tried to memorize it, and though I wouldn’t at the moment exactly clearly recall what it was, I know that if you try to recall it, the vague impression at the forefront is what it is. I’ve tested this several times and it works. It was an experience like this, but what it said was just a nudge further beyond the forefront impression being there to grasp.  
One sign I recall as being a bit odd, as it was a sort of maroon street sign with beige or gold-like writing. I clearly read several signs, and then I noticed, or was surprised by, a sense of loss of gravity. I didn’t fully displace, but there was definitely some kind of disconnection from the physical, with brief sensations of limb movement, and several losses of gravity/floating/falling back type sensation experiences. I’ll detail in my ‘Into Sleep’ OBE experiment journal…


* * *

Here goes the rest: I was watching the imagery, and then suddenly it felt like I was slightly falling backwards, or that gravity released and I was suddenly floating in place. This sensation would last just a moment or two, and then I’d be aware of lying down and my body again, and feeling myself on the floor/blanket lying down, and feeling and hearing my heartbeat and breathing as I was getting slightly excited that something was happening.
I decided to continue practicing and started to change up what I was doing. I decided instead to just continue just what I was doing, which was lying down still and relaxing. I continued to relax and let go, and focused on remaining calm, and about three or four times total did I experience this sort of falling back, sort of release from gravity feeling. And then I started to feel sensations of movement, as if my arms were starting to move slightly.
I can’t say for sure that I lifted up anywhere when I felt the floating, or loss of gravity. Oh, and the sensation was also a mix of a sense of falling backwards to- a sort of mix of loss of gravity, floating, and falling backwards, sort of mixed into a unique and balanced blend of those three sensations.
I continued with this for a while and thought of moving trying to displace, but I didn’t feel like I was fully displaced. I think the moments of this tri-sensation experience increased, so perhaps it started to last a moment and a little bit. I didn’t feel though that I was like ready to displace.

** I wonder now if I should have moved, or how disconnected was I really, etcetera.
** I can be patient. I’m sure I’ll continue to progress, and I’ll thus find out.  
** The imagery meditations are/were very refreshing
** The meditation and experiment/experience was very refreshing!
___

** I forgot something in the journal entry. While still sitting down at the end of my imagery experimentations meditation, I started (imagining) looking at my hands, and imagining moving my hands and arms around, as I would when practicing the OBE into sleep experiment. This was a prelude to my OBE into sleep experiment that I decided to do from this meditation, and also an experiment to see if I could have caused a projection then sitting down. I think it helped.

***********

Are you having any success??

And can anyone, would you give me some input on what I may have done different that could have caused a full OBE??
Logged

Thanks...
Draege
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2005, 05:10:39 »

I get all of the above things as well when meditating. But that's it.
Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2005, 06:24:03 »

Quote from: Draege
I get all of the above things as well when meditating. But that's it.


Hey Draege.

I'll show you. You're right there I'm sure. Give me a few days (or perhaps just one.cool) I'll continue the experiment.
Logged

Thanks...
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005, 08:15:55 »

About to go practice now. I'll keep you in mind. If I succeed I'll come back and post it...
Logged

Thanks...
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2005, 13:52:24 »

Hey Draege and everyone..

This experience of the arm was one of those where the apparent nonphysical body didn't seem substantial or physial-like, as some projections where you have no doubt that they are projections. What do you think? Would you count this as a nonphysical limb disconnection? I did, and would like some input on whether you do, and why or why not??

*******

11/8/05 – 118 – Into Sleep Experiment – I had a slight success. I stayed up late as usual when I’m off, and even later since I’m off and on vacation, so I was substantially sleepy upon starting. I started practice around 3:15 AM. I was practicing getting OBE while going into sleep, and building on the mediations started as a part of experimenting with getting imagery, I sat and did a 4:2 rhythmic breathing meditation and this got me to a brief stint of imagery. (I may have thrown in a few moments of imagining looking at and moving around my arms and hands briefly, before just sitting and relaxing in stillness.)
I was about to quit several times but remembering my previous experience I just kept going and kept sitting, and a blip came sure enough. In conjunction with this blip of imagery was an apparent releasing of my right nonphysical arm. Something happened in the imagery that caused me to want to grab something that was forward and to the right of me, or to swat something to the right of me. Thus I lost myself in the imagery that quickly- it was only a matter of moments of imagery- and was reacting to the imagery. It felt like a very 2-dimensional, insubstantial feeling right arm reached out or swatted outwards at something, which alerted my awareness, and then it came back and I brought the ‘ghost arm’ back. I saw the imagery, but felt and had control over the arm.
The swat or grab was like a backhand slap in motion, except the palm was turned towards the motion and made an attempt to grasp or catch towards the end of the motion- like a combination swat/grab. After this happened I noticed my right arm was a bit more relaxed, and perhaps a bit more disconnected. I could cause a certain feeling of lightness or disconnectedness there. I didn’t try to move though, as the apparent projection still seemed very partial.
After this occurrence I was glad I had something happen so I can lie down and if I fall asleep something happened already. I lie down and soon fell asleep while haphazardly visualizing looking at and moving my hands and arms in various ways.
** The apparently nonphysical arm did feel rather insubstantial
** This could be a borderline experience- was that arm really a nonphysical arm, or a misfired sense of body awareness? It seemed somewhat like what some skeptics describe as some mishap occurring sometimes with the body’s motor senses and such. Yet it was an apparent movement of a limb that wasn’t my physical arm. I’ll count it, at least for now
Logged

Thanks...
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2005, 17:59:20 »

** After conferring online, I’m come to the conclusion that this wasn’t an OBE after all. Were it a nonphysical arm it would have most likely sunken or floated, rather than reacting to the imagery/dream. The nonphysical body (usually?) hovers, or sinks, or what have you, exclusive of what is being dreamt/seen in imagery/dreams. It seems I moved my dream hands, like I would if I’d become lucid solidly in the middle of a dream. In this instance I simply nearly applied WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming). This scenario I hypothesize could be handled just as I had I woken up solidly in the middle of the dream: move! Roll away, etc., from the physical body. The hands in this experience I conclude were theta/dream hands.
Logged

Thanks...
The Present Moment
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 314



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2005, 09:38:42 »

Quote from: lkjewr
Hey Draege..

Last night I experimented with focusing on imagining looking at my hands as I went to sleep, trying to cause projection or get into a projection-ready state on my way into sleep. I fell asleep, but I think this is promising. Perhaps you can try this also and we can compare.

My favorite technique is to phase into a familiar place, like my kitchen. This saves me the effort of trying to create an imaginary scene.
Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2005, 13:27:44 »

Quote from: The Present Moment

My favorite technique is to phase into a familiar place, like my kitchen. This saves me the effort of trying to create an imaginary scene.


Hey.

Thank you for sharing.

Question: Does the resulting projection, when you say 'phase', you mean that you join into your imagination, correct?

I'm interested in what some would call the traditional OBE. How does this method you use get one to that state, if it does or can?? Rather than entering the imagination.

Please detail what happens with use of your method.
Logged

Thanks...
Stookie
Guest
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2005, 15:06:56 »

Quote
How does this method you use get one to that state, if it does or can?? Rather than entering the imagination.


Remember that no matter how you OBE/AP, you're always moving inward, not actually going "out" anywhere. I find it's easier when it's a new state of consciousness that you're reaching for, not a "place". You can visualize a location to make that shift, but in my experience it's not like physical world consciousness.
Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2005, 18:34:34 »

Quote from: Stookie
Quote
How does this method you use get one to that state, if it does or can?? Rather than entering the imagination.


Remember that no matter how you OBE/AP, you're always moving inward, not actually going "out" anywhere. I find it's easier when it's a new state of consciousness that you're reaching for, not a "place". You can visualize a location to make that shift, but in my experience it's not like physical world consciousness.


Thank you again Stookie for sharing with me. I appreciate learning from you..

I have read in Buhlman's work that it is an inward movement to higher dimensions. Are you saying that you don't get 'out' of body at all- that it's all internal? Internal in our head? Internal inner dimension? I would appreciate more on this.

I have visualized a place and merged into it, but this seems more like reverie, or internal landscape stuff. What about validation of real world events and targets? What about moving physical objects while OBE? Are people who write of such things and accomplishments lying about it?
Logged

Thanks...
Stookie
Guest
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2005, 20:13:38 »

I guess in a traditional OBE (feel free to correct me on this), you're experiencing an inner-state of consciousness (focus 10), but attention is directed "outward" toward the physical world/RTZ. The further "inward" you move, the less attention is directed "outward". The main process, no matter what your attempting, is always moving in. So often it sounds like people are "physically" trying to move out of their "physical" body. That's like blowing on a sail to keep the boat you're in moving.
Logged
The Present Moment
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 314



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2005, 12:15:17 »

Quote from: lkjewr
Quote from: The Present Moment

My favorite technique is to phase into a familiar place, like my kitchen. This saves me the effort of trying to create an imaginary scene.


Hey.

Thank you for sharing.

Question: Does the resulting projection, when you say 'phase', you mean that you join into your imagination, correct?

I'm interested in what some would call the traditional OBE. How does this method you use get one to that state, if it does or can?? Rather than entering the imagination.

Please detail what happens with use of your method.

I've never had an OBE, so I can't say how phasing works in relation to it. The method I am using is Frank's mental rundown. While falling asleep, I wait for hypnagogic hallucinations -- usually sounds, in my case -- then begin the exercise.

When I first started I would imagine myself sitting by a stream, throwing pebbles into the water. Often I would see reflections off the water, or hear splashing, but not be able to get anything more. It happened by accident that one night I thought of my kitchen, and suddenly 'saw' the floor tiles quite vividly. Ever since then I've used familiar places instead of imaginary ones.
Logged
lkjewr
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2005, 18:35:44 »

Quote from: The Present Moment

I've never had an OBE, so I can't say how phasing works in relation to it. The method I am using is Frank's mental rundown. While falling asleep, I wait for hypnagogic hallucinations -- usually sounds, in my case -- then begin the exercise.

When I first started I would imagine myself sitting by a stream, throwing pebbles into the water. Often I would see reflections off the water, or hear splashing, but not be able to get anything more. It happened by accident that one night I thought of my kitchen, and suddenly 'saw' the floor tiles quite vividly. Ever since then I've used familiar places instead of imaginary ones.


Thank you very much for sharing. I think earlier this year I experimented a bit with like thinking my awareness different place, for instance visualizing and imagining my vision being in the next room over. I did this to the office of my apartment complex, just sat with perhaps a brief settling meditation, and thought/imagined/willed my awareness/perception there. For a brief and shocking moment I was suddenly there, as if my eyes and presence were hovering in the front room of the office for a moment. I think this relates to what happened with your ‘kitchen’ experience. Thank you very much for sharing, and I hope this helps. It seems you’re onto something.

Would you describe the strongest, most vivid experience you’ve had with this method?

And also, would you describe another experience of awareness displacement- spontaneous or caused- like you had with the kitchen floor tiles? Interesting that I just thought about practicing with this sending awareness thing a bit more.
Logged

Thanks...
Stookie
Guest
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2005, 19:07:02 »

Quote
Interesting that I just thought about practicing with this sending awareness thing a bit more.


Well there ya go. That pretty much sums up what an OBE is: Sending Awareness.

For the last several months I've been practicing OBE hardcore, but have really been surprised by what I've experienced instead of the "traditional" OBE. I tend to get what I guess would be called "visions". I see something in perfect clarity, but am not really aware of a body at all. It's not what I expected, but am more than happy to experience it.
Logged
The Astral Pulse
   



 Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums


The Astral Pulse Copyright © 2002 - 2014
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM