Frustrated with my current status..

[SpectralDragon]

hello Draege.

My only comment and advice really is this: one system or way of projection does not work for everyone, so what I suggest is to do a bit of looking into the many methods.

In order to get this to work you might have to research yourself first. Find out how you learn best (by hearing, seeing, doing things, ect.) there are online tests you can take if you are not sure what kind of learner you are.

then, keeping that in mind, look for a system of projection. I can list several on this site that can get you started, besides of course the obvious robert bruce methods.

Cube's method: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13262&whichpage=1
(I list this one because a lot of people seem to be having success with it.)

Permanent topics:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=44

I would run a search on this site for all of them. After you find one that seems to fit best with how you learn stick with it.

[Eternal_Soulmate]

Heya,

Must say that I more or less have the same problem like in the first part of your message... I just seem to be stuck in that stage where u can't feel your body anymore...falling asleep I can never when I'm meditating (don't know if that is maybe really the problem... too tense??) I can't hang on for 2 hours like you do though [:O]
Check for a topic in that Cube wrote "how to observe your body fall asleep...

As for those visions that appear from your dreams... personally I never have nightmares or "boogy entities" apearing in my dreams... I think this is related to my disbelief in "evil"

I'll be following this topic...might need some advise aswell[]

Greetingzzz

Jimmy

[Sampson]

Hi,
First of all let me say that the phenomena you describe in your second paragraph are very close to what I experience when I project. Assuming that Oobe's follow a similar pattern for everybody and from what I have read at this forum and in books it does then you are extremely close to having an Oobe.

Regarding what you say in your first paragraph, I have found that meditating on the subject or trying to force an experience for hours on end does not work in my case, simply setting and incubating a trigger is enough, I leave the rest of the process up to my subconscious, higher self, call it what you will.

I can really sympathise with you regarding the fear you talk about, the first few times I started to project I would hear strange sounds and feel things walking on me or touching me, I intuitively knew I was close but kept deferring the experience due to the fear of these mysterious phenomena.

I still feel movement now when I project, and often feel something touching or stroking my hair, and regularly feel a sensation in the centre of my forehead, this feels as though somebody is making a 'stirring' motion with their finger (Chakra activity?), now I look forward to these sensations and actually find them quite peaceful and relaxing.

The occasion when I eventually had my first projection I 'gave in' or 'surrendered' to the fear and just went with the experience, the next thing I knew I had projected out through the top of my head, rolled down my body and was resting near the end of my bed by my feet, extremely excited and wondering what all of the fuss concerning the fear was about!

My guess would be that the shadow figure you speak of is a actually a characteristic of the build up to the projection event and almost certainly not what you can expect to experience when you are fully out, not in my experience anyway.

Try and experiment with lying in a pitch black room when nobody is there with you in the house, confront your fear and keep a positive outlook, relaxing deeply before going to bed by preparing a nice bath or listening to peaceful music can also help.

All the best, your so close, once your out you'll be surprised how easy it was!

[Aprentice]

Draege, Robert Bruce describes the phenomena of a figure that confronts fist time projectionists in Astral Dynamics. He calles it the 'Dweller on the threshold', and the classic description is almost identical to what you describe: robed, menacing, aproaching the projectionist, threatening gestures, although it can somtimes vary.
Aparently some people simply have to confront this apparition, and others never experiance it, but he stresses that it canot harm you, and once you confront it head on it will not bother you again.
His advice is to walk strait up to it and confront it, but unfortunatly you wo'nt be able to do that as its bothering you before you get out.

[guest2000]

http://www.robertpeterson.org/asp.htm

[Sampson]

Great link guest2000, the last paragraph or two is advice that I can really relate to regarding the exit.

"If you have serious doubts that it is working and open your eyes prematurely, your awareness will zip like a ball on a rubber band back into your energy body.  Instead, keep your eyes closed and have faith that your consciousness is moving forward.  Keep pushing forward with your consciousness as hard as you can, just like walking underwater, until you are about fifteen feet (five meters) away from your body.  Of course, since your eyes are closed, you can only approximate how far this is, so don't obsess on the distance, just take a best guess.  Once you are safely fifteen feet away from your body, you may open your eyes, and you will be in your astral body and free to roam."

Also, in the past when fear had started to get the better of me I found that taking deep controlled breaths is excellent for calming oneself, it may sound simple but it works every time for me.

[Draege]

I had another sleep paralysis waking this morning, this time I just forced myself not to open my eyes and convinced myself that even if it was/would have been there upon looking, that it wasn't real and couldn't hurt me. So I did my best to relax etc. However even though I managed to rationalize my way through it my heart rate had already gone up and by the time I got myself calmed I had already broken the sleep paralysis =/

Anyhow, its a good step forward at least.. I appreciate everyone's help.

[Draege]

Its come to a point that although I have not given up on trying to do it the old fashioned way of just lying in bed and attempting to have an OBE, I'm not really expecting it to happen anytime soon. I think that because of my nature... because of just who I am, in my blood really- I so strongly want to cling to my conciousness that the real steps don't ever seem to happen. I can lie in bed and reach 100% muscle relaxation.. I don't even feel. This is so normal now I simply lie in bed and it happens. My body doesn't even know how to stay in one position now sitting down, lying, whatever, without immediately going into relaxed mode. However, I can go so deep as to actually lie in bed motionless AND dreaming for 2-3 hours and never lose the slightest bit of conciousness. As I know what true sleep paralysis and vibrations are (I'll get to that in a second), I know I've never experienced them while trying for an OBE this way. I think I have come to understand that having an OBE requires basically that you give in a little. You're attempting to fall asleep and remain concious simultaneously, but you must 'give' some of your concious to do this. For me it seems this is impossible. I have no way to logically explain it except to say that my brain seems to be an "all or nothing" case. I can either choose to lie there and fall asleep (at which point I easily do), or I choose to try a little meditation/OBE session and I could lie there for 20 hours without falling asleep. I *CAN'T* accidently fall asleep. It takes an agreement of my will to allow it- so I've also never had issues with sleep. I simply choose, and it happens. My father is the same way. You can count to 60 as he gets in bed and he will be gone (with snoring!) before you're done.

Now.. I've begun to rely on waking from sleep to try things. I think it has been more effective for me because you've already given up that partial conciousness to get into your current state. It seems like a secondary road to achieving that first step mentally. I can only hope that if I do manage to progress this way that I will eventually be able to go back to jusy lying in bed and making it happen. Anyhow, so far I have had multiple unique experiences where things have happened that I may have had an OBE but really cut them short and was very confused as to what was happening. I'm eager to continue these experiences as I honestly think big things for me are right around the corner. But now I've reached a dilemma.. Let me explain basically what happens: I fall asleep normally. I may have a long obe attempt before going to bed and while it never works, I imagine the mind broadening aspect of it has some farther reaching effects after I've gone to bed. Anyhow, I dream.. and then I wake. If my waking is at a good time, I will be somewhat concious but still very heavy with wanting to sleep. The choice comes as simple as pressing a button. Keep sleeping.. Immediate sleep paralysis comes on at this decision, coupled by odd feelings (minor vibrations) and a shift in hearing that I never experience elsewhere. The problem is that lately something else has been there too. Needless to say I'm afraid when this happens. I also begin seeing things in this stage, which from what I've read here is common. Dream images take life, its not real but you open your eyes and see the impossible. I've waken from dreams many times to see leftovers from the last image of the dream waiting for me when I open my eyes. Scary sometimes, but it fades. Anyhow, I get scared from the paralysis. A few times lately upon the hearing shift I immediately hear a voice talk to directly into my ear which scares the !@$% out me. I don't dare want to open my eyes, because I *already* know what's waiting for me when I do. It started a few months back I saw it for the first time but now its always there. A figure, looks like its wearing a dark cloak/robe.. just a very shadowy figure, is in the corner of my room. Paralysis affects your eyelids as well, so its still difficult to see. My vision is always very... static-y like a television screen if you know what I mean. He changes corners everytime. He slowly approaches my bed. He moves his arm at me. In that duration of time I'm watching I'm freaking the hell out and trying to unparalyze with every ounce of my will. It kicks in just before he 'makes contact' so to speak. The first time it happened was the worst, where his hand went for me head and I actually think I heard him speak something with an odd voice. I always try and rationlize it after it happens. "It can't hurt me, its not real, even if it is real it can't hurt me and it may not even be 'evil' so to speak." So now everytime I wake from a dream and enter what would be prime time to make an OBE happen, I am confronted with pretty much being thrown into my own horror movie. I still don't know if its real. I am not fully thinking, my primal instincts of fear takeover and I am too busy struggling out of paralysis for anything else. Its frustrating. This marks the fourth time it has happened, and I'm really going to begin trying to take it seriously now and look at what I need to decide for myself because I can't continue being scared away by fake images. As to the ideal of if its something real that's trying to contact me. I really don't know if I'm ready for that.. Sigh, frustrating. I welcome any comments =/ and sorry for this being so long.