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Author Topic: Have you learned any lessons about religion while astral projecting?  (Read 1848 times)
mayaalli78
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« on: June 21, 2014, 08:57:21 »

I have yet to make it out of my body, but the subject of religion worries me and is putting a small but present damper on my spiritual journey. What about the theory that there's only one correct religion? Is religion even that relevant? Is religion necessary? I know my journey is my journey alone, but I would just like some insight. Please don't be vague...
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2014, 09:54:56 »

I got into all this while I'll was still a devout Catholic so I had a great deal of fear that I was forfeiting my soul. All i learned was that no religion has a monopoly on the truth of spirituality and some have even corrupted it for their own agendas.

I've since come to believe that the reasons most religions condemn this practice is because many of those who do ,come across with the belief that we are a very bit the creator as we are the creation. That is a dangerous threat to religions who demand complete obedience to their dogmas.

I believe that this has made me a much more compassionate and less selfish human being. I am now more spiritual and feel a connection to the universe that makes me considerate of others and their pain. With that said, many people actually feel more deeply for their respective religions and that is a beautiful thing as well. I see no harm that can come from this. smiley
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2014, 09:54:56 »

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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 10:00:29 »

Probably all religions are right AND wrong to a certain extent. That's what I've learned. Some religions get certain things right, but that doesn't mean that everything is 100% true. Think about it this way - didn't mythology use to be a religion? L0L. On a more serious note, I'm not bashing religion here, but the theory that there is one correct religion is BS. We all process the data that we collect differently. Truth is, observation alone isn't enough to know what is true and what isn't.

I use to like religion growing up as a kid. I was always told that it was a way to bring people together. But the older I get, the more I realize that it's actually a means of segregation. It also put fears in me as a kid. It kept me away from certain experiences that I would have actually loved to have. I'm not a man of grudges, but if I held any grudge, it would be for growing up in such a place that I did. But I choose not to lash out. While experiences in projecting has taught me to stay away from religion, it has also taught me that being loving and accepting of people is not a bad idea, even if they are people who are religious and teach others as such. There's nothing wrong with religion, unless it is used to hurt or limit a person or idea. I have met some really loving and caring people who just so happen to be religious. So... what I get from this is... a soul is a soul. It is immortal and it is priceless. Religious or not, we should all be accepting of each other. I would say that religion is almost irrelevant in our life journeys.

I like to think of religion as a language. A coding language. All the different languages do different things, and they are used by different people. That's all there is to it. No one is right or wrong. Some people just need data to be translated into a language that they can understand. Others of us choose to stay away from coding languages and take in raw data as numbers. Anyway, I'll stop writing now. lol.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 10:03:34 by AAAAAAAA » Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 10:09:02 »

Comprehensive breakdown of how we can unite all world beliefs.

OK this might look long, but I promise itís good.

OK in my continuing evolving thoughts on how we can bring together all these religions into one coherent theory. The key in doing so was to also include all beliefs into a bigger umbrella. Since I admit that as me being a universalist I had a hard time reconciling these different religions. And so I have made what I think is a good way to not only connect all the religions, but beliefs and most of all how one lives their life into one Grand very BIG, broad, and wide ranging theory that makes more sense IMO. That is it goes beyond just categorizing religions, but many beliefs into this system, which makes it even more fundamental and universal into categorizing all beliefs in general. So one of the major factors of the spiritual and the natural, is desire. So I figured I would categorize not only religions by desire, but all beliefs by desire. And I will get to how belief comes into play in a minute.

I used desire as a means of categorizing them, because desire is one of the most inherent impulses of the universe which transcends religion into a wider array of beliefs.

The beliefs and people that live the least amount of desire.
So the first principle expressed is one of being or living with little desire in the physical world, to find God/reality/truth. That would include Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and most all meditating traditional religions, and all the other religions/beliefs that don't use a lot of desire. This can include people that live a simple life at peace with themselves and nature, such as the Amish come to mind and I am sure many other religions/beliefs of old would fit this category. Now if your Amish, Buddhist, anyone of these other beliefs, but you don't live a life of little desire then you don't qualify for this level but one of the other levels.

The beliefs and people that tend to live with the most amount of desire.
While conversely on the other spectrum of the scale of desire we have beliefs and people that tend to use a lot of desire. Which usually are in the Abrahamic religions, atheism, agnosticism, even drug users, and all the other beliefs that usually use a lot of desire in the world to live their life, and eventually find God/truth/reality.

The beliefs and people that use more of a mixture of the two desire and little desire.
And lastly we will naturally get a mixture of the two, that is using desire, to find little or no desire in ones life. The distinction here is that in this category they use desire to a greater extent than what good adherents of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism would use. That is what separates these two. The beliefs that fall into this category are psychonauts, Shamans, Tantrism, paganism, witchcraft, and perhaps Taoism, and Zen depending. Even someone that lives a very busy city life and yet they go on vacations to the woods to get in touch with nature. Or to meditate or even a retreat to come back to themselves would fit this quite well. Even those that work 40 hours a week and come home to meditate or astral project fall into this category.

I realize that getting exact definitions with a carnal mind won't work. Since you have to understand the underlying nature of the mulitverse we live in. And as you will see this system is the best we have IMO for categorizing all beliefs into a universal grand picture.

So on the one hand you have heaven, or what you guys might call the light or the higher realms. Then on the opposite end of the spectrum is earth. Now these are total opposites since the effects both of them have are very much opposite. When Christians think of heaven or heaven on earth they really don't know what that means. They don't know what that would really mean in practical terms. It would mean a dissolution of much if not all of their ego. Which would change so, so much about what they know of as heaven and earth. So when I use the word heaven here, I am not talking about the ego ideas Christians or any Abrahamic religion of heaven. OK so once earth can know heavens voice, then we can start to make real progress here. And what heaven is telling us is that, we are too identified with things in the world that lead us astray into hollow heavens and hollow hells, and we need to step back, and prioritize our desires if we are going to be using desire. And once you go to heaven, you can see this seeming dichotomy. And then if you get to come back to earth you get to see this dichotomy even more. The more we can go back and forth from these two polar opposites and start to harmonize them, the more we can make real progress here in the spiritual. Now there are multiple ways of harmonizing heaven and earth. Such as astral projection, meditation, skillful use of psychedelics. Even nano robots will eventually bring us all to be able to instantly astral project or start awakening kundalini.

1) Heaven = Negetive = Yin = Being unidentified with the worldly desires. Accomplished at it they are in heaven on earth. Very very few ever reach such a state. They have brought heaven to earth. They are the enlightened both in discernment and heavenly energy. They have cleansed the body head to toe of all worldly desire. The effects of this are astounding in the range of possibilities that are open to them in the afterlife.

2) Earth = Possitive = Yang Being identified with your desires. Not caring or not knowing how to really tap into heaven on earth. The effects of our desires are so powerful that they shape their destiny much faster than what an enlightened being would experience. The earth is full of such people.

3) Mixture of heaven and earth = Yin and yang synthesis = Positive and Negative charges make a battery, or AC power. Eureka this is what we need. A mixture would be those that are identified with earthly desires while trying to reach heaven on earth either in belief or practice but mostly practice. Accomplished people in the alternating middle are those that have brought heaven to earth at different times in their lives and especially if they have a strong online presence in helping other and/or writing books.

The interesting thing is I donít think a positive or negative charge from a battery can do very much of anything on their own. Itís only when both the positive and the negative are combined that you can make a batter or alternating current, AC which is useful. Yin and yang, heaven and earth must come together. We as a human race eventually learn to bring these to polar opposites together through seeking truth and reality. It wonít happen being mediocre and hoping someone else will do it.

In continuing, about mixing heaven and earth. There is a guy named Willam Bodri that has some great books on meditation. His website is here and written quite a few books meditationexpert.com  He recently said something to me that made a lot of sense and goes good with this subject very well. And ties in very well with the problem of linking these to polar opposites within religions, one being heaven  the other being earth. I just slightly edited this quote from William, but it means the same thing.
"Fair enough, but while most people talk about meditation, they never talk about doing things in the world, or the success-crowd simply talks about doing things in the world, and never talks about enlightenment. You have to top straddle the Middle way, and never rest in emptiness while ignoring the world, or become so absorbed by the world that you become materialistic, and lose your Tao. You must straddle both." So as you can see, this is a real genuine problem here with connecting these heaven and earth polar opposites.

Remember religions were usually founded by people whose language was just starting to form, or they didn't understand science, and scientific ideals in philosophy, and similar things. That is part of the reason these two opposites have been such polar opposites for a long time through most religions. So it's all a working progress.

It seems that science is one of the last things we find from our animal nature, but one of the first to be perfected for the masses between heaven and earth ideals. Since it's so hard to make science from our animal nature. Science forces us to accept the reality that is around us without imposing our own biases toward it. For a long time people have fought science. But now it's almost undeniable to deny many of the things that science has given us. OK so once science comes full circle, and finds reality/truth/God/source, then the cycle is complete, and so many will come to reality/truth/God. All will know reality/truth/God. All will understand and see and almost all religions and beliefs have much more in common than they realize. (generally speaking). So once science comes full circle and to find God again. Then everyone will have to agree that we are entering a new age. (almost everyone) So science will bring us to the science of enlightenment, science of religion, science of spirituality, science of finding and knowing what and who reality/truth/ and God is. That is why I say it's coming full circle.

Even if this is a good model. I don't think it's set in stone. All things change and evolve and interact in dynamic ways. And all things come full circle, so this is not the only way of looking at it. I am sure there are many more dynamics to it. But as of right now using desire to categorize the religions seems like a sensible way of doing it in this day and age.

In thinking about it, it was our fighting that often forced us to develop new technologies. And perhaps suffering too forced us to think outside of the box and make a new technology many times. So who would have thought that something like war would have spurred on technological innovation. But it did. And in the end in helped us get to where we are today. Which by according to Steven Pinker our world today has less violence but there's no guarantee that it will continue that way.

It's very interesting here, I see how science seems to be one of the last things to be formed in our evolution of beliefs. And how we needed desire to find science. Since science relies on people that love the truths of the natural world and what earths says to us. To have a love for the truths and reality of the natural laws and phenomena that reality/truth/God have here. Yet the meditational religions shied away from such things for a longtime. Even the people that used desire back in the day. They used desire to wage wars and battles a lot. Anyway so meditational religions, and Abrahmaic religions shied away from science. At least science as they knew it back then. It's not until recently that science has made a real comeback in our understanding, and it's forced us to accept science as a very valid path and tool for us. We see the benefits of science all around us. So the Irony here is that if we were all meditators and Buddhists and Hindus which used little desire in their doctrine for living on earth, then it might have taken us forever to find science, If all everyone did was focus on the internal/consciousness it would have taking us MUCH longer to find science IMO. That is as science is known today. The Dalai Lama has learned a lot from western science he says. It was very interesting to the Dalai Lama to find out that molecules affects the way we feel. This type of knowledge of of a completely different nature than what the Buddhists have known about these things. So the science we know of today, is far from what the meditators of old would have called science, but they had a good idea, and they were closer to science than the Abrahamic religions were. So it was almost like there was no other way to make progress faster, than to have people move with desire for the external world to figure out things related to the natural world. People concerned more about cause and effect than free will. Obviously cause and effect is directly measurable here and now. Weíve been doing that for years. ON the other hand itís only recently that we are starting to make advances in understanding free will. That is why we needed those who believe in cause and effect and science to help those that were more spiritual. Science has so far done much much more help than not. According to Steven Pinker violence has gone way way down recently. And poverty is lessening around the world. There is no guarantee that it will stay that way though, but itís a sign that science is very very useful. So perhaps too many people rejected meditation/astral projection for an easy life, while simultaneously being hesitant to accept science/truth/reality. Thus living a mediocre life without living it to the fullest. Attitudes like this have really slowed us down.

So in the end what I was really trying to say in the above paragraph was that if we were all naturally evolved into a mostly spiritual planet what had little suffering, then if might take us much much longer to find science and gain all the benefits of that.
So as of right now we naturally in the world have these two polar opposites separated from each other within religion. And it's hard to see the very positive effects many times within religions that do both in an effective manner. So it seems that we need more people going the middle route  Mixing not only the practices, but the doctrines of these two, the latter being a little harder. Which is what I am doing.

Lastly I want to put this here me say that I have such a comprehensive theory as to why this is true and what will happen in the future. What the future will look like but I will just say that I could right a book on this. No joke. A book that would tie this up with many other things including seasteading, cold fusion, both of which will change the world in the coming decades. Cold fusion will be first. Just research Andrea Rossi. He will be coming out with a very very good study soon on by the end of this month up to September this year. Then there is AI intelligence and all this will lead to a new age. Eventually technology can only lead to one big place. The spiritual I think this will be possible with nanobot being able to make us astral project. scientists have already found a way to make most people that donít lucid dream to lucid dream through a device. Science and technology will provide the fastest way for spirituality for everyone. Astral project on demand. I donít have time to get into right now but things will be getting much better though there are some exceptions. In short technology that will dramatically change the way we live life here very fast.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

And no I am not talking about what I do for my spiritual growth, and the forest. LOL Xanth and some of you know what I mean.

Keep seeking reality, and truth my friends.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:40:08 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 12:00:45 »

First off let me say this and the above post are really just a draft. But they both really help explain what I am talking about. I realize that this is probably over many peoples heads. But if you want to try to understand my theory or hypothesis right now really of the grand picture of religion then this is it. All it is is a workable theory right now. I think within maybe about 500 years we should know if this

OK this is going to not only be long, but it's going to be very abstract.

OK are you ready? Here we go.

OK so in trying to understand what I am about to convey to you it's important if you don't remember what the 3 branches of government do that you read here.

Certainly there does seem to be a kind of mixing of power so that one person or
branch does not have ultimate authority. But for the most part each of
these has itís main function, which is what it does best. Which is to
stay at itís place of power, without diverging too much from that.

Here are the different ways people have defined the 3 branches of government.

Executive:
Signs/executes laws, Signs or vetoes laws by the congresses
legislature, Proposes laws that the legislature debates and passes,

Legislative: Makes/debates laws, Makes laws for the president to sign, Can impeach the president.

Judicial:
Interpret the laws, Judge the laws, and constitution, Decides how laws
are used and what they mean. Decides if laws are constitutional,
Enforces laws,

Now I know that most other countries work differently but most all modern governments have the 3 main separation of powers on some level which is executive legislative and judicial. Look at it very closly here and you will see that itís a very fundamental system.
 
Separation of powers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#Checks_and_balances

OK so in understanding these underlying concepts of how a government should work we can start to piece together in some way how the kingdom of heaven might work. So I have been  doing just that. And I have been very very surprised at what I have found.

If I were to put all these concepts into religion I would say that from my interpretation of religions, that it should look something like this. So the heavenly religions are the ones that deal more with the executive part of reality. The legislative ones are the ones that are about in the middle. They are the ones that use desire, to attain no desire. Then lastly we have the earth polar opposite that is under desire most all the time to attain no desire, at some distant future time. Eg atheism, agnosticism, Abrahamic religions, You can even tell by the way these people talk about their beliefs that they are working to attain the ďpromise land.Ē While the Executive branch talks about paraphrased having the promise land on earth.

Here let me make it more clear here.

Heaven = Using very little desire to attain God/truth/reality. = Executive = Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism, Zen, Confucianism, and even Taoism, depending, and all the other beliefs that use little to no desire in the world to live, and eventually find God/truth/reality ASAP. Generally they do expect to reach heaven on earth while living in this life here on earth to some degree. And the ones that do attain the highest of peaks of the executive branch stay in their place of inner peace and rest the rest of their life with little effort. And many of them do that actually practice as they are suppose to. That is if they actually follow the rules of their religion. Accomplished executives claim they paraphrased ďhave the promised land.Ē Even in their practices they donít worry about attaining things many of them. Many accomplished executives donít even desire to attain anything in the actual experiential experience in their practice. And they donít use much desire if at all. At least desire as we know it. They call it doing without doing. Meaning they can do things without having the energetic karmic effects. Most of their practices involve meditation......... That is number one, meditation. There are many types of meditations of course. But at heart most of their practices in the executive branch are based off of gaining discernment, and cultivating through meditation. They also often practice some form of Asceticism, like celibacy, abstinence, fasting, prayer, not eating meat. But all these are to help the persons meditation. (Note the Buddha, Siddhartha, warned against strict asceticism.) The mark of the executive branch is that those that attain the height of this branch believe and speak about going deeply inward, getting in touch with the source of reality itself.

Earth = Using a lot, or a moderate amount of desire to eventually find God/truth/reality = Judicial = Abrahamic religions, science, atheism, agnosticism, Unitarian Universalism, Zoroastrianism, and folk religions depending, and all the other beliefs that use desire in the world to live, and eventually find God/truth/reality in the distant future. Doing this all without letting go and looking inward experientially. Generally they donít expect to reach heaven on earth while living in this life here on earth. That is if they actually follow the rules of their religion or mainstream accepted practices.  Accomplished Judiciaries claim they paraphrased ďdonít have the promised land until they reach heaven at some unknown future time, that is mostly out of their hands to attain in this lifetime.Ē The exception to that is accomplished people in the field of science, and all of sciences offshoots. Any accomplished people in the sciences, and itís offshoots can, and have attained the promise land. Well, kind of. They still have not attained their full potential which is why they need to learn more from the Legislators, and the Executives. Meaning it's a work in progress as of now on this earth. Even many of their practices are based on something that is out of their hands to attain in this lifetime for many of them such as dead end religious beliefs. Earth religions are the farthest from their actual role right now in this era on earth. With the exception of the sciences, and itís offshoots. The path of science to reality is speeding us increasingly quickly toward heaven IMO. That is just where we are at right now at this point in our earth's evolution. Other than the sciences many of them still have not figured out their real true potential on earth in the grand scheme. So in a perfect world they should take up their role as being the Judiciary, by interpreting their constitution which is reality and truth, seeking it. Many of them are sleep right now and don't know that is what they are suppose to do. Some of them get disillusioned by things that don't matter in the grand scheme. And only once the the Judicial branch understands that, can they start to think about using their power to help those that don't understand their role in the grand scheme. The ones that are doing that right now are those that have careers int the sciences. Why did I chose those that are in the sciences? Becuase . The main exception to this is that of science, and itís offshoots which is starting to establish its authority in religious matters. Here are some of the common practices of the religions in the Judicial branch: Praying, praising, speaking in tongues, preaching, witnessing, seeking the scriptures, visions, dreams, prophesying. Then on the science side we have.seeking, researching, all the phenomena of the natural world. Here are the main branches of the the sciences, Physical sciences, Earth sciences, Life Sciences, Social sciences, Formal, sciences, Applied science, and much more. And those cover a very LARGE area, that continues to grow, with no foreseeable stopping, or slowing to itís body of knowledge.

Branches of science
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_science

The mark of the Judicial  branch is that those that attain the height of this branch mostly donít talk about going inward. They donít talk about anything inwardly. Except that of the mind. Eg psychology and things pertaining to the mind. Which is only the surface of what the mind actually is. The exception is that of science. But science goes inward, but in a different way than those of the executive, and legislative branches. But it should still lead to the same goal. Since they both seek to understand the nature of reality itself. Scientists go inward by looking outward first. So technically they donít experientially go inward. They only dream of going inward, without attaining the experiential experience of going inward. That is why science needs to learn from the executive, and legislative branch-es.

Keywords of this branch are God, science, holy spirit. Thus by not acknowledging the underlying true nature of ourselves which is conscious awareness. They don't grasp the higher spiritual concepts yet. They stay within the mind, often rejecting the concepts of consciousness such as reincarnation, and universalism.

A mixture of both heaven and earth. The middle path of mixing heaven, and earth = Legislative = Using BahŠ'Ū Faith, universalists, psychonauts, Shamans, Tantrism, paganism, witchcraft, Eckankar, Wicca, new age, and perhaps Taoism, and Zen depending, folk religions, and all the other beliefs that use desire, to reach no desire, in the world, and eventually find God/truth/reality maybe or maybe not ASAP. Generally they have mixed expectations about reaching heaven on earth, while living in this life here on earth depending on the person and their practices and dedication. But they still admit that it's possible to attain deep experiential states of consciousness. That is if they actually follow the rules of their religion. Accomplished legislators work hard to help others attain the paraphrased ďpromised land.Ē That some of them actually did fully attain at some point. They are the debaters, or they are just constantly helping others understand what they have actually experientially attained. They create new laws, theories, and propositions based on what reality, truth, and self evident discernment has taught them. A perfect example of this is Frank Kepple. Another good example from the psychedelic side is James Oroc which from all that he had explained at his website about this one experience he had, it seems that he actually attain the absolute blemishless void of God himself. All of his description was exactly like that of this void of absolute nothingness and absolute everythingness. Which is his source, through the use of 5-MEO-DMT. Some of them have even changed some of the most fundamental rules of the executive branch. Such as traditional tantrics. They are offshoots of Hinduism, that didnít agree with Hinduism's strict Asceticism practices. They overcame that taboo. I think even neo-tantra is going to break another traditional spiritual norm in the future. So are nanobots changing our consciousness for spiritual endeavors. IIbe thing is for sure the legislators keep on breaking new ground in spiritual endeavors. They keep on pushing the rules on what has traditionally form the executive branch been the most widely accepted. Common practices to the legislative branch of religions, and movements are: Meditation, astral projection, psychedelics, reiki, channeling, psychic skills, cultivating, a skillful, A skillful and directed means of using desire, such as witchcraft, dreams, lucid dreaming, shamanic journeying, bodywork, chakra work, and more. The mark of the legislative branch is that those that attain the height of this branch believe and speak about going inward also, but rarely, if ever, reach the heart of their source itself. And even if they do reach the heart of their source, itís only temporary. This is another hallmark of the legislative branch.

Key words of this branch are consciousness, awareness, universalism, and oneness. Thus proving there ability to move past compartmentalization into a more upper hierarchy of higher knowledge of the true nature of reality.

In the end I canít separate them by where our earth's evolution is now. I can only separate it by what is ultimately perfected and attained. Having a belief does not translate into having attained the real and perfect role of the Judicial, or legislative, or executive branch. Only after having actually attained any of these should it count in a perfect system. So some in the intermediate may kind of believe in the deep source of reality. Just like the christians believe God is everywhere. But until one actually goes there, and experientially attains their belief, only then can they truly move past the surface level of believing into experiential being. And actually attaining their place and authority as judiciary, legistator, or executive. This is a much better indicator of where they are at. Because remember we are talking about what it should be like in a perfect world. Since in a perfect world a child  in the executive branch canít truly help those in the judicial branch until they have actually realized, and attained the height of the executive branch in a perfect world. But until then almost anything goes. And we have Judicials claiming they are executives, acting as if they have attained the height of reality in belief. But their actions and words usually speak otherwise.






The experiential constitution of life consists of reality, truth, and
self evident discernment. Now self-evident discernment is only
cultivated in a home that is mostly free from fighting, arguing, and
strong beliefs without any checks and balances. So in this constitution
of life we have reality which is the executive, truth which is the
legislative, and self evident discernment which is judicial.

Even the founding fathers acknowledged in the The Declaration of
Independence our inherent independence by saying. ďWe hold these truths
to be self-evidentĒ Fortunately or unfortunately independence or ďfree
willĒ is cultivated, not given to everyone in copious amounts. Thus the
need for cultivating independent thought in children.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 12:21:13 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
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