OBE while lucid dreaming ?

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coral1

Hi Kalonek
It sounds to me like you were OB. Congratulations!!My first few experiences were alot like what you describe: I find it much easier to project from a lucid dream, and many times I`ll find myself in odd places in my room before I awake. It sounds to me like you`re on the right track.Maybe next time try flying UP and OUT of the window.
   I wish you continued success

coral1
coral1

Kalonek

quote:
Originally posted by coral1:
Hi Kalonek
It sounds to me like you were OB. Congratulations!!My first few experiences were alot like what you describe: I find it much easier to project from a lucid dream, and many times I`ll find myself in odd places in my room before I awake. It sounds to me like you`re on the right track.Maybe next time try flying UP and OUT of the window.
   I wish you continued success

coral1




Hi Coral1 ! Thank you for your answer and for your encouragments ! :) So you think it could be my first OBE ? wow great ! I finally get it then ! ;) I'm so happy ! As you say (eventhough i have as i said almost no experience of the OBE in itslef), i find it also much and much easier to make a pressure on my astral body while lucid dreaming, than while starting the process in full day. I did the OBE as easily as walking i feel :) It would be great to do it each nights ! I will try your technic of going up and down after i jump.
As i'm talking about doing it each night, would i be tired afterwards as if i hadn't sleep, or the fact that my real body is sleeping is enough to feel ok in the morning ? I'm so exited i have a lot of questions, but i should keep some for later ;)

Thank you again Coral1 ! You said you have some experiences, so maybe could you tell me if the sight is better afterwards ?

- Ama et fac quod vis -
www.astralsight.com

fredhedd

good job on getting out, kalonek.  my first few experiences were also similar to yours.  i've had some more since then and my astral vision is slowly getting better.  

your physical body will get plenty of rest while oob.  it should be the same because we are supposed to be ap every night,  just having a harder time remembering it all.

don't hold back w/ any of those questions, dump em all out as soon as possible.   the faster you know, the faster you go. :)


Kalonek

Hello Fredhedd ! Thank you for your answer ! I'm glad to know that i could try ap every night w/out being like a junky in the morning ;) Also that astral vision can be enhanced later ! (it was really stange - gloomy/darky/wavy) I have tried to have another OBE with the same lucid dreaming tech but i'm getting so exited while getting to the window that i woke up most times. I must try to control myself i think, being calm and relaxed. I have a question (maybe silly i don't know), which is, if i go through the window (the real one) while ap (i'm on the 3rd floor), will i fell slowly until i reach ground (because of gravity habitude) or will i stay in the air and move like this ? (i was just interested before trying) Another thing more important is do you have any recommandation on what to do or not to do while ap the first times ? (things that might get myself in trouble for exemple - like thinking of walking on the head as i maybe couldn't go in the right way afterwards with astral vision or stuff like this - or maybe what to do to with "special capacities" that should amaze me ? - ie flying etc)
Thank you very much ! :)

- Ama et fac quod vis -
www.astralsight.com

fredhedd

gravity won't affect you in the astral.  if you feel yourself sinking it will be caused by you thinking that you should be sinking.  as soon as you realize that you can hover, you will be able to.

things that would normally be troublesome for you will be harder to do in the astral.  it's kinda like a failsafe.  if you start to do something that you think you shouldn't be, it will become harder and harder to do it.  you may experience reality fluctuations or your vision may become blurry.  you may even be snapped back to your body.

i wouldnt' know what to suggest for the first few times out, maybe just getting accustomed to moving around in the astral.  i plan on staying in the rtz for a good amount of time before i move on to the planes.  

hppy flying




Kalonek

quote:
Originally posted by fredhedd:
gravity won't affect you in the astral.  if you feel yourself sinking it will be caused by you thinking that you should be sinking.  as soon as you realize that you can hover, you will be able to.

things that would normally be troublesome for you will be harder to do in the astral.  it's kinda like a failsafe.  if you start to do something that you think you shouldn't be, it will become harder and harder to do it.  you may experience reality fluctuations or your vision may become blurry.  you may even be snapped back to your body.

i wouldnt' know what to suggest for the first few times out, maybe just getting accustomed to moving around in the astral.  i plan on staying in the rtz for a good amount of time before i move on to the planes.  

hppy flying




Thank you for the information ! I didn't know this thing about the "failsafe", it is useful to know it ! I think i'll do what you say about staying in rtz a while before trying to go "higher".
Thank you for everything ! I'll surely post more questions when i'd finally have a "long" OBE :)
See you !

- Ama et fac quod vis -
www.astralsight.com

AndrewTheSinger

Kalonek, to  improve your vision ask for clarity. Just go "Clarity Now!", and you might be able to see better.

Regarding the window question, it depends on what you are thinking when you're leaving through it. Like fredhedd said, If you feel like flying then you will fly, if you think you will fall then you probably will. It's all about trust. When you're ready to go through the window think that it is no big deal, remain serene. Forget about your physical body and don't close your astral eyes.

One thing you could try that is very interesting (to me at least) is to manipulate energies. Make electricity flow from one hand to the other, create energy balls, make your astral body glow, create astral insects, turn yourself into an animal, a tree, etc...




Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

Kalonek

The energy manipulation looks great ! I didn't know about it ; I'll surely try it ! :)
Thanks !

- Ama et fac quod vis -
www.astralsight.com

Kalonek

Another experience this morning, and in fact my astral vision was really excellent, crystal clear. And, funny thing (which i knew will happen but experiencing it was great), i was having a perfect vision of everything around me, great because i wear damn glasses normally ! I definitly love obe :) !
Thank you everyone.

- Ama et fac quod vis -
www.astralsight.com

clandestino

hi Guys - I'm having a bit of trouble at the moment - I can't work out whether or not I am lucid dreaming , or astrally projecting.

I've read many books on the subject, many posts by the people on this site, and I still can't work it out !

The problem became greater at the weekend. I was wavering between lucid dreams and being awake; anyway after amusing myself for a while, I recalled that it was possible to project to the astral by focusing my intent.

So, I said out loud " I want to see the astral ! I don't want to see this illusion, its a dream !! "

I was actually shouting this out loud in my dream. There was a quick change, and I was standing in an oak panelled room, fully concious - It was just as real as physical existence.

I did my usual check to determine whether or not it was a dream - I pushed something with my finger. At first, the door frame felt solid...i pushed a bit harder, and my finger went through the panel. So I floated around for a while, and had fun !

When I regained physical conciousness, I lay awake, remembering every detail, but again in my mind I thought to myself "was I projecting ? or was it just a life-like lucid dream ?"

HELP !! what is the difference ?!! is there any difference ?! After all I've read about lucid dreaming and astral projection , I'm not sure of the difference, if there is one !
Mark

I'll Name You The Flame That Cries

Jeff_Mash

quote:
Originally posted by clandestino:
HELP !! what is the difference ?!! is there any difference ?! After all I've read about lucid dreaming and astral projection , I'm not sure of the difference, if there is one !
Mark



This is where we start to get into different beliefs and theories.....but I'll try to take a stab at what *I* believe.  Keep in mind that my outlook on these things are CONSTANTLY changing, because with each experience comes more questions & answers.

I *used* to think that all LD experiences were created by your mind.  If you found yourself in a house, this house was created by your mind; it wasn't already existing outside the realm of your conscious thought.  

Likewise, I always considered OBE's/AP's to be not created by the mind.  If you found yourself in a house, this house existed on some level without you creating it.  People you talk to are REAL spiritual beings and NOT some creation of your subconscious.

This is what I used to believe, but now I think it's changed a little bit.

I think all that we PERCIEVE while in an altered state of consciousness is real.  Even if I close my eyes right now and imagine a room, that room is REAL.  Somehow, somway, that's real.  I'm starting to believe that our minds (not our brains) are incredible perceptors, able to translate and create energy.  

The big question that I always ask myself is this: if all of these things are so real but only created by ourselves, where is the reassurance that when we die, we don't just cease to exist (or go to hell for being decieved).  My answer to myself is this: when I am APing, I KNOW at that moment that it's real.   I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something after death, and that somehow, I am existing in that environment of thought/creative energy.  I can't possibly imagine having this kind of ability to project in this lifetime, only to find myself incapacitated after death.

These are my thoughts and how I've come to view things since I've started projecting.  I could go on and on, but this is the basic gist of my outlook.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com
Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
http://www.mjmmagic.com

jason

heres a little tip for improving the clarity of your lucid dream/obe vision.I  tried the "phazing in" technique,ended up in the real time version of my room.I flew through the window and ended up in a astral plane with lots of people and some short buildings.my vision was blurry,so I "compressed" my conciousness"(hard to explain).Things became crystal clear! Its kind of like focusing a pair of binoculars or something.I flew around a bit,then decided to go to the real time zone,but I didn't make it because I got distracted by a "dream portal",and ended up in normal dream. the difference in realism was extreme.                                                                                                               I agree that it is very hard sometimes to tell the difference between a lucid dream and an obe.its a question of whether you believe in alternate realitys.Once I had a lucid dream in which I actually woke up in the past.It was very,very real,and  was very strange and disconcerting.Itbegane my questioning of which reality actually exists.Robert Bruce has a theory that dreams take place in an alternate set of realitys.A genuinly intriguing idea,but how do we KNOW? Isn't entirely possible that it all takes place in the mind? How do we know that is the case either? How do  we know that this reality isn't a kind of shared dream? This is very confusing...I've often thought that the best way to answer these questions is to actually ask someone you encounter during  your journeys in a lucid dream or obe.I have noticed that "dream characters" are little more than automatic illusions who don't answer your questions or really interact with you in a way they aren't programmed to,while beings that are more likely to have there own conciousness "stand out" more ,and are genuinely interesting to talk to and converse with.Are obe and dream realms actual planes of existance? are some beings we encounter actually alive and concious? how can we tell whether any reality actually exists,and isn't just part of our desires for it to exist? So far,I have found that the answers are in and during the experiences themselves.

The musical conciousness is mind beneath the sun.

coral1

I take my dreaming and projection experiences to be just as real as everyday waking existence. After all it`s happening. I think everyone has to tailor the experience to whatever world view or belief system suits them. Someone said that the only incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it`s comprehensible at all. I`m happy to live with a certain amount of mystery ane just go along for the ride. Too much anylasis confuses this cowboy and I`ll take things at face value.
     Happy Trails!

coral1
coral1

clandestino

Hi Jeff, hows things ! thanks for the reply.

I appreciate how your beliefs have changed through your experiences, likewise my experiences affect my beliefs also.

But I think I'm running into a brick wall at the moment. Even though I had the most "realistic" experience to date just recently, which convinced me that everything I had been learning / practising was correct, I think about it again in the cold light of day, and question the experience..

"was it real ? was it objective ? was it created by my mind ? Or was it just as real as physical existence......It was just my mind interpreting energy in a slightly different way ??!"

As you can see, I'm asking myself some mind boggling questions...I think that my issues with defining "reality" are holding me back at the mo.

Mark

I'll Name You The Flame That Cries

Jeff_Mash

quote:
Originally posted by clandestino:
Hi Jeff, hows things ! thanks for the reply.

I appreciate how your beliefs have changed through your experiences, likewise my experiences affect my beliefs also.

But I think I'm running into a brick wall at the moment. Even though I had the most "realistic" experience to date just recently, which convinced me that everything I had been learning / practising was correct, I think about it again in the cold light of day, and question the experience..

"was it real ? was it objective ? was it created by my mind ? Or was it just as real as physical existence......It was just my mind interpreting energy in a slightly different way ??!"

As you can see, I'm asking myself some mind boggling questions...I think that my issues with defining "reality" are holding me back at the mo.

Mark



Hey Mark....

I know what you mean.  However, when I feel this way, I just tell myself, "Self, the next time you're projecting, just take a moment and ask, 'Is this absolutey real?' "  

Sure enough, the next time I'm out and I ask this question, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's all real.  We only begin to question the experience when we come back, because we've all been brought up to believe that anything experience that takes place without the use of our physical body is not real.  However, when you're in that natural astral environment, you feel free and alive.  You know that there is more to this existence than what we've been told by our peers.  It's only when we return from our astral journey that we begin to question the experience.

Look at it this way.  If you're talking to two people, and both of them are describing what it's like to eat a fried monkey, but only one of them have actually done it,  you're going to believe the one who's actually eaten one.  

When you astral project, you know that it's real, but when you come back, you're almost like a whole different person being TOLD what just happened.  Your physical self starts to question what it's being told is real, and this is where the doubt sinks in.

I'm not sure if I should compare that to a fried monkey, but I'm just typing without thinking at the moment!


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com
Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
http://www.mjmmagic.com

clandestino

Fried Monkey , eh ?! hmmm.

Well, I had some Ostrich Sushimi (raw) last night....that's nearly as outlandish as fried monkey. !

You're right about :
"When you astral project, you know that it's real, but when you come back, you're almost like a whole different person being TOLD what just happened. Your physical self starts to question what it's being told is real, and this is where the doubt sinks in."

...It is just like being a different person. But when you are actually in the situation, It is / can be just as real as me keying these words into my PC.




I'll Name You The Flame That Cries

Jeff_Mash

quote:
Originally posted by clandestino:
Fried Monkey , eh ?! hmmm.

Well, I had some Ostrich Sushimi (raw) last night....that's nearly as outlandish as fried monkey. !

You're right about :
"When you astral project, you know that it's real, but when you come back, you're almost like a whole different person being TOLD what just happened. Your physical self starts to question what it's being told is real, and this is where the doubt sinks in."

...It is just like being a different person. But when you are actually in the situation, It is / can be just as real as me keying these words into my PC.



Exactly.  I often compare my astral/OBE experiences to past memories that I've had.

For example, think of something you did in the past, like graduate from high school.  You KNOW that you graduated because you probably have a diploma to prove it.  However, what if you didn't have any physical evidence that this ever took place?  No diploma, no pictures, no school records.  How could you PROVE that you indeed graduated?  All you have is a MEMORY that you walked across the platform and graduated.

In many cases, my projections are like this.  At the time they're taking place, there is no doubt in my mind that they are real and not a by product of my mind.  However, then you return and all you have left is a by product of your mind....a memory.  

Now you see why a lot of people either discount these as dreams, or they simply forget that they even happened.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com
Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
http://www.mjmmagic.com

Kalonek

Hello there ! I have practiced chakra stimulation and trance state for about 4 months yet, and have had quite good results since the first attempt i think, but i didn't managed to achieve a complete OBE. A few nights ago, i was dreaming of an odd thing and immediately realized it wasn't reality, so i decided to jump off the window for fun. While doing this, i suddenly pushed hard on my astral body and felt a big trance vib in all my person. I had a clear view of my dream, falling from the window, and the next moment, i was watching my ceiling with a wavy, gloomy vision and heard a woman voice shouted "you're floating over your body ! stop this !" while men voices were telling me "go ahead, you nearly got it !". I was surprised by the woman voice and the image of my ceiling disapeared. I was back in my dream which was ending, already half awaken in my bed (but eyes closed and my face against my wall so  couldn't have see my ceiling even with eyes wide opened). A precision : as far as i remember (the whole thing has spent like 2-3 seconds so it was quite fast), my ceiling was at like 1m from me during this, although it is normaly at 3m50 while in my bed.
As i never had an OBE, i was wondering if it could be my first very quick OBE or at least a manifestation of my astral sight ? What do you think about it, you that have more experience than me poor frog eater ? ;) I was about to stop training for OBE as i couldn't manage to have one, but this gave me a small hope :) Thanks ;)

- Ama et fac quod vis -
www.astralsight.com