middle astral plain

[Cool101]

Ive started getting into astral projecting again but everytime i project im usally end up on the lower plain but ive raised my vibration to get onto the middle plain what will i need to expect will there still be astral vampires or demons on the middle plain or will it be uncommen to run into them

[Xanth]

Forget all the "plane" talk...

Just aim for an experience based upon an Intent filled with Love... and you'll never have to worry about that stuff again.

[Kzaal]

Like Xanth said.
I think that we shouldn't stop ourselves to the different planes.
Because doing so you will have an incredibly hard time reaching your goal.
If you usually always end up in the lower planes there's a reason for that.
Each planes has stuff to learn from. Even the lowest planes to someone who never projected is incredibly amazing.
See it like this, it's harder to progress if you know how much left you have to learn than if you learn without knowing.
At least you won't get downed because you feel there's too much you still need to learn.

Middle Planes (Buddhic) is very very far in progress. To achieve it you need to be Divine Love.
This mean, removing even your intuition.
This means that, if you enter a drugstore and there's a hold-up going on, instead of running like your intuition would tell you to, you'd stay there and give love. And your love would succeed. You would be able to stop that hold-up if you were on that plane.
Basically when you're on those planes you are already walking the path.

The lower planes (mental/astral/etheric) have good teachings too and shouldn't be skipped.

But like Xanth said theses planes are a distraction mostly because it can confuse you as to which stage you're at etc.
I like to look at the planes description when I don't understand something but otherwise I pretty much let it go and enjoy what the astral gives me.

[Cool101]

thanks for the advice you 2 

[IAmWill]

you know, i can't agree with them more, this planes will only lead you to distraction. Enjoy what you reach or what you have, treasure and live with it

[Xanth]

But like Xanth said theses planes are a distraction mostly because it can confuse you as to which stage you're at etc.
I like to look at the planes description when I don't understand something but otherwise I pretty much let it go and enjoy what the astral gives me.

Actually, I'm saying that they're just meaningless labels that people give their experiences.
Lower Astral?
Middle Astral?
Upper Astral?

They're terms that really don't MEAN anything.

[Sagar]

Lower Astral?
Middle Astral?
Upper Astral?

They're terms that really don't MEAN anything.

Exactly.  Think about what constitutes high and low in this reality.  High and low is used to represent altitute above something.  When you OBE I don't think it is getting higher in altitude above something.  How would you know whether a plane is higher or lower without a reference point below it?  They're all infinite in every directoin.  Its phasing your awareness to a different location. 

[Kzaal]

Actually, I'm saying that they're just meaningless labels that people give their experiences.
Lower Astral?
Middle Astral?
Upper Astral?

They're terms that really don't MEAN anything.

They actually do mean something to people looking to advance.
They are exactly like dimensions.
If someone was in the second dimension (he's stuck as a drawing on paper let's say.)
And that person goes to sleep and see the third dimension.
He'll want to explain to someone that things can have a perspective and same goes for astral.
They are states, they're different kind of experiences.

If I was to explain reality in 2D I would use terms from the 2D world to try to explain that person that there's something above the 2D world.
Labels or no labels you still need words or drawings to describe something to someone.
They are terms that are employed to describe something that was experienced that is not above but different.
Theses planes are exactly like dimensions, they are not higher or lower in term of height, they are different than our reality.
If I would say dimensions instead of planes it would do the same thing!
Let's say I want to go from dimension 4 to 5 (hypothetically) now that person trying to explain me the difference between theses will tell me I need a state of awareness above what I am at.
He'll say that I need to hold that awareness permanently to stay in the 5th dimension right?

Theses labels are not there to mess you up. They are there to help you understand and keep track of where your consciousness is.
They are not important in the sense that you don't always need to keep track of everything in the way that,
If I'm in 2D and that I finally understood what 3D is and I phase to the 3rd dimension, if I understood the concept perfectly then I don't need to think about it anymore because I don't need to go back there.

If my awareness phase into the buddhic planes and I understand the concept of love perfectly and I live and breath love naturally and perfectly then I am now phased there. I probably won't be coming back to the lower planes except as being that looks the same to the eyes of the lower planes beings... But I will employ terms and labels in order to explain and try to help people around me in order for them to reach the next stage.

If we live in 2D and there's a container in the 2D world... it will be drawn in 2D, even tho we know it's 3D in reality as a person living in 3D. It will seem to be in 2D to someone who lives there, but in reality it's not.

Thoses labels are not there to be scary but to use them in order to do good. To explain things to people in order for them to phase.

Phasing is a label too it's just there to describes what happens when someone change realities.
And I could say you're labeling things each time you say that word.
Phasing, meditating, AP'ing, OoBE, LD'ing. They all mean the same thing. You are changing your awareness to another dimension in order to comprehend things better. They're different techniques yes, but in the end they all do the same thing.

The important thing to not forget is that, we can't ignore words because they have a bad connotation.

The word "planes" was never intended for bad use of for stopping your advancement.
It was there to help you understand and to help you phase to the next plane. 

We could say the exact same things about god and the source, we're labeling it in order to comprehend it.
If we didn't had those labels we couldn't say that word. And NOBODY would understand us when we try to explain things to them right?

[Xanth]

They actually do mean something to people looking to advance.

Only because they've been mislead. 

You're only describing how inadequate our language is to "describe" an experience YOU have.

If everyone worked from a completely fresh slate and weren't biased to one methodology vs another... you'd see people use their OWN experiences to derive their perspectives from.

There will come a time when you realize what I'm saying... I have zero doubt of it.  It, too, took me a while to realize that an apple isn't an apple.

[Kzaal]

Only because they've been mislead.  

You're only describing how inadequate our language is to "describe" an experience YOU have.

If everyone worked from a completely fresh slate and weren't biased to one methodology vs another... you'd see people use their OWN experiences to derive their perspectives from.

There will come a time when you realize what I'm saying... I have zero doubt of it.  It, too, took me a while to realize that an apple isn't an apple.

I do realize what you are saying Xanth, and I realized that a long time ago.
I don't say you're wrong about anything you say, I'm just saying that theses labels are useful to understand.
Otherwise we'd say that everything is a label and all you have to do in order to achieve enlightenment would be to sleep.
But if the terms are already there why use another one? An apple is a name we give to categorize something that is similar.
If thousands of people experience something similar than what I've experienced and name that experience then it's another label.
Everything is a label, phasing, and the astral are one too... but if we stop using all theses labels then it would end up as a big pile of mashed potatoes where we end up saying that the only true thing would be your imagination and how you imagine stuff and your little world that you imagine when you sleep, would be impulse of electricity in your brain.
That doesn't solve anything. It would be totally uninformative and a regression toward spiritual enlightenment.
Saying that it's all label and that someone is wrong when it's just a personal opinion and sharing of experience doesn't help the person understand what it's experiencing.
Otherwise we'd say Love and your emotions are the same as the astral and they're just labels that are impulse sent from your brain.
It doesn't help us understand the big picture of what we're experiencing.

Theses labels are hints, or little pieces of information that you can keep or discard as you go on.
While you are working hard to debunk them and remove all theses labels Xanth, others progress with those terms and you shouldn't accord so much importance as to it.
I'm sorry, I just had to say it because it was bugging me a little for a while. Don't take me wrong tho you are free to not use theses labels because you are already at the point where you discarded them.
But if it can help people understand what they're living through why would you try and stop them using those?

I've understood that a long time ago, when I do astral traveling I enjoy the experience first but I like knowing where I'm at in my spiritual level and what I need to do to get better and feel better.

According importance to labels and trying to stop using them is like saying you're not going at a restaurant because you don't like the name even tho everything in this restaurant has been rated 5 stars.
Or you don't smoke a brand of cigarettes because of the name, even tho it would make you smoke less, tastes better, makes you cough less and is cheaper than another brand.

You can name stuff however you want in your brain. But if you go in public and use that name for something that already has a name on it... people will have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not saying that by frustration or anything I already know that labels don't matter and we use it too much but what can we do? Those words are there to be used and to help being more specific... Or understand at a deeper level.
Everyone that starts progressing in spirituality eventually stop thinking about those labels.

Edit: Of course, if we all could make someone live the same experience we did by telepathy everything would be understood to the perfection, but it's not the case and indeed we need to rely on basic language to try and make people understand what we are saying.
But it's not the case, the human being is not at that stage.
To me there's only unskillful and skillful ways of telling people what you really meant but unfortunately words are not always enough, it helps tho...
There's no right or wrong way to say things, only skillful and unskillful.

Edit2: Just another edit, to say that no one gets mislead. They choose to believe what they want. Labels or no labels it doesn't matter. It's not wrong to believe that there's actually planes out there. You know it yourself how the universe is infinite, there's not only one "paradise" if you let me say so... Probably all paradise ever thought about are already out there somewhere. Why wouldn't a paradise with planes not exist? Why not your own paradise exist? It doesn't mean that because someone said it can't exist that it doesn't.
I don't think that our language is inadequate at all to describe what we experience. Our language is actually quite developed to express what we feel.
Most of the time when I watch the comments on this forum I understand perfectly what the person is trying to say. Again theses labels help us understand what they want to say...

So, by saying that planes are just labels and should be ignored when possibly out there is a real Astral Plane "paradise" then you may be consciously, or unconsciously be leading people to believe there's no such thing.

If I'd say: Forget all that time travel stuff it's all science fiction. Then I might lead someone who firmly believe in it's existence to doubt.

I found this in the Tao again and I think it's important to read because, it's a wonderful paragraph on self-control and how to not be affected by everything. To me it's one of the most important paragraph in the Tao... Even tho the whole book is a complete revelation. This paragraph particularly illuminates the whole book.

-----

22:
Therefore the sage holds in his embrace the one thing (of
humility), and manifests it to all the world. He is free from self-
display, and therefore he shines; from self-assertion, and therefore
he is distinguished; from self-boasting, and therefore his merit is
acknowledged; from self-complacency, and therefore he acquires
superiority. It is because he is thus free from striving that
therefore no one in the world is able to strive with him.

-----

When I want to explain something to someone, I always imagine myself from their point of view. This way I can understand their question and answer it as best as I can, without going against their point of view. Some answers might not be the best but at least I tried. If that person believes in a plate of spaghetti as a god? Let him believe it! Something good might come out of it who knows!

This is only my opinion and what I've learned. It doesn't mean that it's true or anything but again, I tried and I'll always try doing my best to make people better person which is one of my main goal.

Labels are annoying because sometimes they're not always in agreement with our point of view, but it's not a reason to remove them.

[Szaxx]

Interesting post, labels for someone using a second language are open to interpretation.
Their working word base will be smaller than one who is communicating in their primary language. The info presented has to be simplified within the word database of the lowest denominator.
This does reduce the desired info being communicated and an incorrect label is something that can mess the whole communication taking place.
I see both points in this.
It really is a pity that telepathy can't be used. Its 100% accurate and the native language is irrelevant.
The talk of planes worked well 100 years ago. Today there's far more understanding and although planes are obsolete there's nothing in place to satisfactorily replace it yet.

The plot thickens.