OBE and the Hollow Earth?

[Thirdeyeopen]

Hi all, im new to the forums and must say everything ive read here is fantastic. I was wondering if anyone capable of exploring the physical through OBE could possibly be able to find the entrance to the Hollow earth, if it exists. The openings are said to be in the north and sout poles. Ive read that if one flies far enough North, past the ice of the north pole, they would eventually find a lush world that is actually the inner earth. Its said that the way the opening lies with curvature of the earth would permit someone to walk into the hollow earth and not even knwo they are doing so. I would be thrilled to hear from you guys about this topic.

[T.L.]

First time Ive heard of this.

[Stookie]

Hmmmm... and I always thought it was just molten lava.

[MisterJingo]

Hollow earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth) is a view of the earth in which it contains either multiple inner hollow spheres, or even a sun. Beings (usually advanced masters of some kind) inhabit it with their advanced civilisation. I recall reading a book in which the author (whose name escapes me) trecked to one of the poles to find the 'entrance' (huge gaping holes at each pole - which all modern satellites miss* - or governments cover up). The book covers his adventures and details his experiences with these advanced beings (in their flying machines).
All modern science generally refutes this though, from gravitational force on sorrounding bodies being consistant with an object of the mass and consistency of a non-hollow earth, to satellite photos, to earthquake shockwave propagation through the surface crust and deeper layers, to modern knowledge of plate margins and tectonics and recorded movements of the earths crust.
It's an interesting idea as far as ideas go, but that's all it seems to be.

*There have been a few photos like this:



which seem to perpetuate the myth - but they ignore such things that satellite photos of the earth are made up of many single shots, pasted together to give a larger view, and satellites in certain orbits will not see the poles fully.

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a sort of Astral hollow Earth. Or for that matter world systems based on the Dyson sphere concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere

There is a problem with thinking that RTZ astral travelers can observe and report anything accurately about this physical universe because their consciousness isn't here.

We find no evidence of ancient astral travelers presenting artwork or illustrations of deep space objects such as galaxies, nebula, or stellar birth gas clouds before the time of being revealed by modern astronomy.

(please, if anyone has reference of for example, an ancient yogi actually describing what we know to be fact today about the physical universe, please prove me wrong.)

If you consider the exploration of the astral to be a journey through the manifestation of limitless imagination and thought, it's really a profound waste of time to be distracted with mucking around with this physical dirt ball earth. This is our chance to get out of the slum of creation and to move on.

[Lysear]

    "It's an interesting idea as far as ideas go, but that's all it seems to be."

    "All modern science generally refutes this..." 


  I'm sorry, Mr Jingo,

        But it greatly amazed me that you would so easily dismiss the theory of a hollow earth because modern science disallows its existence! This is a website dedicated to discourse on such matters as astral projection, phasing, and even ceremonial magick.

                                                                Joe.

[Thirdeyeopen]

Cool, thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate it. I think theres a planned expedition to the supposed polar opening starting in November of this year. It should be interesting to see what they turn up. And also Inner voyager, thank you for bringing the point of not being able to observe things from the RTZ while OOB to my attention. I had never even thought to consider this. Seems my views of OBEs were slightly flawed.

[MisterJingo]

    "It's an interesting idea as far as ideas go, but that's all it seems to be."

    "All modern science generally refutes this..." 


  I'm sorry, Mr Jingo,

        But it greatly amazed me that you would so easily dismiss the theory of a hollow earth because modern science disallows its existence! This is a website dedicated to discourse on such matters as astral projection, phasing, and even ceremonial magick.

                                                                Joe.

Hi Joe,
One might discuss AP, phasing and ceremonial magick, but if you read the majority of posts here, they discuss it in a rational way. Science is simply rational thinking, and personally, I'd rather live my life through the lens of rationality – sorting the wheat from the chaff, than taking onboard everything what-so-ever in an irrational way with no method to differentiate between the useful and 'true' knowledge, and the downright crazy knowledge. The occult can, and has, unhinged people for failing to do just that.

If you wish to ignore basic things like:

*Earths tug on the moon is consistent with a body of earths mass. If Earth was hollow, it would tug on the moon less. These measurements are used for everything from satellite technology, to launching probes into space, to measuring earth's course through space. There is no such inconsistency in gravity which there would be with a hollow earth.

*When an earthquake occurs at point a on the earth's surface, the waves created by the quake propagate to point b and c. To do this they travel across the surface crust and through the deeper magma layers. Waves travel at different speeds through the brittle hard crust and the viscous deeper layers. Taking measurements at point b and c show the waves travelled through a solid and more viscous layer – rather than the outer layer of an hollow shell. You could built a model yourself to test this.

*The earth bulges at its rotational equator due to the viscous nature of the core being pushed out by centrifugal forces – if the earth was hollow this wouldn't occur.

*The earth has a very strong magnetic field, if the earth was hollow, or indeed had a sun at the centre of it, where would the magnetic core reside? If in some miniature sun (which would be too small for fusion to occur), we would see cycles in the field's strength like the 11 year cycles with our own sun.

*Tectonic plates (huge parts of the crust) are moving on the magma currents below them, creating earthquakes, volcanoes, mountains and various constructive and destructive phenomenons on their travels. Such migration would not be seen with a hollow earth.

*There are numerous experiments which are shooting various subatomic particles through the earth to detectors on the other side, all results from these experiments and consistent with a solid earth.

*We have countless satellites in orbit around our planet, which have (and continue to take) photographs of every square foot of earth. None have shown any form giant entrances at the poles – nor have any of the arctic/polar explorers seen huge holes on their crossings of these 'land' masses.

*One of the giant 'hole' entrances at the north pole would once have been pure ocean during ice free periods, and we didn't lose our ocean to into the hollow earth during such periods.

*The arctic is actually a landmass under most of the ice, it migrated where to where it currently is from the supercontinent 'Pangaea'. How did the hole form in the arctic landmass?

One could ignore all of this, but the evidence on the other side is little more than hearsay and belief. It's one thing to hold belief; it's another to hold a belief against a tide of insurmountable evidence.
I personally want to see through the words and ideas man has spun over such occult ideas (due to antiquated world views) to the raw ideas underneath. And to so this, one must be critical, else our knowledge would never  progress – and if we really took a non-rational view in these areas, we would still have the beliefs of man circa 200,000 bc.

[Lysear]

  Yes, I do respect that approach,

      But surely, if you admit the existence of such phenomena as astral projection, you are recognizing that the modern scientific community is essentially flawed. You would be hard pressed to find any reputable scientist that would support the existence of the spiritual world. Even spiritual scientific approaches that try to use the scientific method to explore the spiritual realms are dismissed by the greater scientific community.

    As far as I am concerned, if people give credence to astral projection as a real phenomenon, then there must also be room for theories such as hollow earth, seeing as both ask you to suspend your rational scientific mind, and ignore modern scientific findings.


                                                       Joe.

[MisterJingo]

  Yes, I do respect that approach,

      But surely, if you admit the existence of such phenomena as astral projection, you are recognizing that the modern scientific community is essentially flawed.

My stance on AP is that as an actual experience, it is real (such as people do experience it as a distinct state), although as my own experiences have grown, I've moved away from astral philosophies which presume to explain the experience, and now I'm looking from a more rationalist mindset.
Astral philosophies will generally draw links between perceptions of being outside of the body meaning consciousness can exist without the body. From this they will presume consciousness survives death as it doesn't actually reside in the body.
I personally will not draw such conclusions on a subjective interpretation of an unknown experience. Whilst AP appears to take place outside of the body, we do not actually know that it does.

I wouldn't say that the scientific community was flawed; more that it focuses on areas which it can study. Currently the AP area is shrouded in a lot of occult terminology, and this is perhaps another reason for little research.
I don't believe anything is ultimately beyond science (science being a rational methodology to study reality). If a human physical brain can experience AP, and if there are spiritual worlds beyond the physical in which AP takes place, then there is a mechanism by which they connect and can communicate information. A so there is a point at which science can study the phenomenon.
If we eventually discover AP is a brain induced state, so be it. If we eventually discover AP exists in other places of existence above physical reality, then great.

You would be hard pressed to find any reputable scientist that would support the existence of the spiritual world.

This is no different to people on these forums not giving credence to concepts such as the spaghetti monster actually existing. This is not meant as a slight, but simply to display that beliefs which fall outside of our own are generally not given consideration. With science it goes a bit further, as scientists require evidence that belief alone cannot supply. If the spiritual world truly exists, then science will 'eventually' find trace of it.

Even spiritual scientific approaches that try to use the scientific method to explore the spiritual realms are dismissed by the greater scientific community.

The problem here lies in that most studies for paranormal phenomenon do not fully follow the scientific method. A double blind study which isn't truly double blind has failed before it's started.

    As far as I am concerned, if people give credence to astral projection as a real phenomenon, then there must also be room for theories such as hollow earth, seeing as both ask you to suspend your rational scientific mind, and ignore modern scientific findings.


                                                       Joe.

As above, I think AP can be considered with a rational mind (although not many of the philosophies surrounding it). But things like hollow earth fall apart when looked at rationally. When science does eventually take note of the many spiritual or psychic phenomenons, it will probably show many of them to having no basis outside of faith held belief. I don't see this as a bad thing, because it's simply progress of our view of reality, and it's something which has been happening for as long as there had been humans.

[Lysear]

"This is no different to people on these forums not giving credence to concepts such as the spaghetti monster actually existing."

    To be clear on this, Sceptics would draw no lines between the concept of the spagetti monster and the concept of the out of body experience. To them, both phenomenon do not exist objectively.

"I don't believe anything is ultimately beyond science (science being a rational methodology to study reality). "

     Its true that science in essence is the method of studying phenomena. One key thing to remember however, is that scientists do not begin afresh each time they start an experiment, they build on previous works. Some of the previous scientific works are considered so canonical, (if thats a word!) that they are irrefutable. Certain scientific truths are the very foundations of scientific methodology. I would suggest that these foundations in their essence, do not permit extra-physical phenomena to exist.

    Myself, as a person who has experienced a number of astral projections, then begins to look at the phenomenon of the out of body experience as a real thing, that I can relate to. Therefore, if I believe that astral projection is real, while modern science would see it as hocus pocus or "woo woo" (randi!) With this in mind, I must then view the modern scientific communities approach to astral projection as flawed, and even the scientific method (which is built upon the necesity that any phenomenon must be observable/measurable by the human senses, or an extension of the human senses (i.e a microscope etc.)

   If I start, as a person who has experience astral projection, from the standpoint that "Science" then is flawed, then I also must insist to myself that there is a possibility that the spagetti monster exists, or that the earth is hollow and full of beings.

   This really approaches the heart of what I believe you are saying (correct me if I missunderstood,) There is a possibility that the spagetti monster exists. This doesnt mean that I have to seriously consider changing my world view to respond to its existence, but merely to the possibility that it exists.

  There is a possibility that Astral projection is objective. There is a possibility that Astral projection is purely subjective and that my travels are all within my mind. This does not mean that I know either for sure, but that I accept the possibility of both.

     There is a possibility that the earth is hollow. But I wouldn't bet my christmas bonus on it. But, at the risk of repeating myself, this forum discusses phenomena not accepted by the modern scientific world-view on an hourly basis. Is it really such a stretch of the imagination to consider the hollow earth?

   So how does one begin to reconcile astral projection/hollow earth/spagetti monsters with modern science? By engaging with these scientists in debate, discuss where you believe the methodology is flawed, and try to adapt it. This would be a process that is time consuming and that requires infinite patience. (scientifically impossible!)

                        Thankyou for your responses, I appreciate being able to discuss this with you,         Joe.

[Stillwater]

An interesting discussion....

I think this is a good place to point out something many of you probably already know-

There is a difference between the mass collective noun "science", with its meaning of both scientific method and favored theories, such as quantum mechanics, evolution, etc., and "scientism", which is a hardcore belief that science "proves" materialism- the idea that only the physical exists, so therefore human consciousness and mind is the result of the brain.

Many people ascribe to this "scientism", but that does not mean that is what science asserts- to be fair, modern science (when taken alone) seems to suggest something like: there seems to be a physical world with apparently set laws, and there may or may not be anything else. If this is vague, that is because, as philosophers and scientists each know, it very difficult to actually go about proving things.

So I don't really think it is fair to say that science is against things like spiritual realms, but rather that a large, but perhaps irrelevant body of people believe that this is what science dictates.