OBE Philosophy

[UncleSam]

I havn't been able to AP yet, I'm new so I can only answer one question of yours

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1) Doesn't it seem that we have a purpose here? And that since we've come from, and are going back to the astral plane, that we should concentrate our efforts on earthly matters as opposed to trying to go back where we came from?
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Sure we should concentrate on our lives right now.  But every night we go into the Astral
World.  Most poeple can't stay up for 24 hours straight so why NOT go into the Astral World
at night when you would usually be wasting time with sub-consious thought that can't be
remembered.

At least, that's my opinion.

=nick=

[jilola]

1) Yes. We should concentrate on the issues here and now. But AP can give us an exceptional perpective to the physical world. And maybe at some point in our spiritual evolution it is necessary to transcend the physical in order to learn the lesson?

2) Suppose that our base existencce is we on an astral plane so high that we can't reach it while projecting. This would explain why we normally don't remmeber past lives and even while projecting don't remember them except in some special circumstances (or when it's appropriate to our current level of advancemement)

3) Because their currrent lesson is to teach the ones behind. And because those who project are supposed to do that.

The physical is almost certainly a learning tool (I'm hoping to find eveidence when/if I ever learn to project).

2cents

jouni

[Tia]

1)  I think we are here to experience and learn certain 'lessons' with the limitations imposed by the physical.  You dont have a choice about where you concentrate your efforts.  You might AP during the night but you wake up to another day that you have to deal with.  In other words, AP doesn't get in the way of your life.  Infact, I would say it was a 'part' of life.

2)  I have had an amazing OBE/dream going back to see myself as a chinese girl.  I cant prove in any way that what I was experiencing was a past life but I feel sure it was.  The thing is, it had no relevance on who I am today, not that I could remember anyway.  I think that remembering all past lives would get in the way of concentrating on whatever particular lesson we might be working on right now.  It would make it too distracting, if you had failed at something previously you wouldn't want to carry that over, it would affect the end result or could hinder you from succeeding.  I think it's more complicated than I have explained but starting with a fresh slate each time - gives you the best chance to get what you came for.  Also, with a different mind each time, you wouldn't look at things the same way twice.  I also feel, just personal, that in each life, part of whatever you might be working on, is to try and connect with that part of you that is the 'source'  through all the layers of physical and emotional crap collected.  

3)  I met a woman in an OBE and I asked her if she was my guide but she just smiled and refused to answer me.  I felt that she was looking after my interests.  This is my only encounter with guides, I'm not very experienced with OBE but what I have experienced so far is that not only am I learning lifes lessons in the physical, but I am learning other things entirely, there at the same time.  I dont think we are ever 'dead' and school is never out.  And you dont instantly regain past life memories just by being in the astral.

This is just my philosophy so far, all subject to change the more I learn.

[Mankind]

I hate the argument: "You shouldn't OBE because you should focus on physical matters."  OF COURSE no one here is arguing that anyone should ignore their physical lives.  But if OBE were against natural laws, then we couldn't do it. In fact, I believe the ability to OBE may be the cutting edge to the next stage of evolution. Hell, if more people would OBE, maybe the world wouldn't be in it's current psychotic state!

[Grendel]

quote:Originally posted by Mankind:
I hate the argument: "You shouldn't OBE because you should focus on physical matters."  OF COURSE no one here is arguing that anyone should ignore their physical lives.  But if OBE were against natural laws, then we couldn't do it. In fact, I believe the ability to OBE may be the cutting edge to the next stage of evolution. Hell, if more people would OBE, maybe the world wouldn't be in it's current psychotic state!

I never said that we shouldn't OBE.  I'm just saying that given the assumption that we've already been to the AP, and the assumption that we're going back when we die, it seems like we've already spent a good deal of time there.  And given that, it logically doesn't make sense that we'd learn anything new by going back.  (Other than the fact that AP exists, etc.  We'd just be RELEARNING things we previously knew.)

Look at it this way :  Let's say you're an astronaut.  And we know there's a planet of people-like beings that we want to investigate.  However, instead of sending you down knowing everything you know now, we send you down without your memory, and have you integrate completely with the people.  Then after a period of time, we'd bring you back and study you, revive your memory, etc.  But while you're on the planet, thinking that you actually ARE one of them, you get into their space program, and become an astronaut, and end up travelling back to Earth to investigate us.  

You came from Earth, you are going to go back to Earth, and you learned everything you needed to up to that point while you were on Earth.  And you'd keep learning when you went back.  But by travelling back to Earth to investigate us as part of their space program, you're screwing everything up.  And you think you're learning all this cool new stuff about Earth, and our solar system, etc., but in reality you're just RELEARNING things you already knew quite well.

I know that's a far fetched explanation, but it's as good as I can get trying to compare OBE to something.  I'm all for OBE, and I'm going to keep trying for them for quite awhile I'm guessing.  But I was just thinking that logically it doesn't make any sense.  If we've been there, and we're going back, are we defeating the point of us being HERE by trying to go back early?

Just a thought.

[jilola]

But if the point is to fully integrate into the other planet's society and part of the society is the space program then joining it makes sense within the other planets context.
Maybe we are supposed to investigate going back early at some point? Otherwise the mere fact that it can be done is a sign of something not working properly. And that should be investigated as it gives perspective and understanding nto our existence.
Another way of putting it is: You go to another country to study. Every now and then you contact home and every now and then yoiu even visit home even though your studies won't be over for years.

2cents

jouni

[Grendel]

quote:Originally posted by jilola:

Another way of putting it is: You go to another country to study. Every now and then you contact home and every now and then yoiu even visit home even though your studies won't be over for years.

2cents

jouni

True, but that would be given that you remember and miss things back home.  If you didn't have any memory at all of where you came from, would you be as inclined to call and visit?

But you do make a good point.  Perhaps we got SO used to the AP, etc. that we're meant to see it from a different point of view, and appreciate it for what it is again.  I guess I'm just having a hard time with the whole placement of AP in the scheme of life/things/etc.  You know?

[jilola]

If I didn't remember anything of home then I'd be natural to explore. And if during the exploration I'd realize that the place I'm studying is actually home all the better.
I think AP isn't supposed to make sense in the physical life's context. It's rather a tool for the transitional experience between the worlds if you will. It only makes sense with respect to understanding the physical as contrasted with the astral. A tool for perspective.
It gives us a glimpse of life as it is instead of its external physical manifestation.

2cents

jouni

[Windameir]

Maybe you should consider that one of the things we are supposed to accomplish is our Link to our higher selves through Obe ?
When I was very little I had the strangest feeling that I had forgotten something really important (I was like 3) it seemed that it was just beyound my ability to grasp.... Have any of you ever had that feeling?

Happy Travels
Windameir

To make the best better

[Frank]

quote:
I never said that we shouldn't OBE. I'm just saying that given the assumption that we've already been to the AP, and the assumption that we're going back when we die,

Yes, you have no choice to "go back" when you die. But the question is, where will you end up?

Will you spend 50 years wandering aimlessly in the lower regions? Or will you become locked in a belief-system region for a hundred years, or more, before something clicks and you decide to leave via the back door?

You may do that, and think you "escaped" only to become latched to the belief-system area alongside for another hundred years, or maybe a thousand years. The concept of Time means absolutely nothing on the Astral.

There is a reason why all of us are here, which is, for each individual to find out why we've had to come here. The fact that we do not already know tells us enough. The more advanced incarnate beings already know the "why" of it all and their purpose (which is basically to try and convince us lot to stop killing one another, and get a move on in a more productive direction).

The primary difference between basic incarnate beings and advanced incarnate beings is that the advanced bods have long since been "enlightened" as to the true nature of life (as fantastic and as unbelievable that true nature may seem).

The only way us basic incarnate beings can become more advanced, i.e. fully enlightened, is by tracing our roots back through the Astral. Having a physical body offers a brilliant chance of being able to do this; because the physical body gives us a solid foundation on which to base our experiences; as this body acts as an effective buffer between our thoughts-release-emotions and our surrounding circumstances.

This allows us the luxury of being able to mentally step back so we can reason and compare. Plus, if we screw up we're not going to spend x-amount of hundred years trying to undo the damage. It's just a quick zip back to the Physical, take a few deep breaths, and project again.

Yours,
Frank

[Tisha]

Ahhh!  So true.  So many times, I've returned to the physical only to kiss the hard surface of the Ordinary World.  I would drop things for the sheer pleasure of seeing them fall "down."  Ordinary reality, far from being something to "escape" (as I used to erroneously believe), is a blessed state.  So consistent, so safe.  Comparatively speaking, on Earth we're limited in the ways we can screw ourselves up due to our character defects.  

Nowadays I compare our earthly lives to a flying lesson.  You're in the plane, hands on the controls, in the sky . . . but behind you there is the flight instructor, ready to override your mistakes to keep the plane from crashing to the ground.  

Our earthly lives are our Training Ground . . . use your earthly lives wisely, everyone!  You only have a limited time . . . don't squander it!


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Ashfo]

I've thought about this question myself but came to the conclusion that, basically, so what?

Isn't it just as likely that part of our "physical world puporse" (if there is one) is to understand and explore the Astral? Perhaps we we're put on Earth in some round-about way to expand our minds and perform some other sort of task?

Perhaps this explains why so many arent interested - it isn't part of their "purpose" so fate (if it exists) strays them from this path.

How do we even know we go to the Astral when we die? How can we even be sure there are sould there?

I like this analogy: In the "Astral" we are like ants on Earth. We simply can't comprehend or understand the full picture. Or perhaps that's not right... perhaps we can understand everything.

Or perhaps we should just do what we feel like as that could just be our purpose

- Ashfo

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"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
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[Mankind]

You know, between the posts on this website, the everyday news, and history, I now understand where the "Negs" are coming from!  More power to 'em!

[Grendel]

The other night while I was meditating a thought train popped into my head.  It's somewhat verbose, so please be patient.

If the astral plane is supposedly the place we go to when we die, and supposedly the place we came from before we were born, it's safe to assume that we've spent a fair amount of time there that we can't remember.  So if we've already been there, I'm guessing we're here in the physical world for a reason, whatever that reason may be.

Anyway.  Given the assumption that we've already been in the astral plane and are going to go back, doesn't it stand to reason that there's a substantial purpose to us being here on earth?  That is, shouldn't we be concentrating on the here and now, instead of trying to get back to the place that we came from/are going to?

To avoid drawing this out into a rambling, I'll boil this down into 3 questions :

1) Doesn't it seem that we have a purpose here?  And that since we've come from, and are going back to the astral plane, that we should concentrate our efforts on earthly matters as opposed to trying to go back where we came from?

2) If you HAVE gone OBE, has anybody ever remembered things from past lives, past experiences, anything at all?  I can understand us not being able to remember past lives, etc. while we're in the physical world, but it seems like we'd have a reconnect when we went back to the AP.  (Kind of like that episode of Quantum Leap where he accidentally leaped home and remembered all of the home stuff that he couldn't remember while he was leaping around.)  If you haven't remembered anything, doesn't it seem that us completely forgetting everything as we go from life to life, and everything inbetween would be a huge hinderance to the learning process?

3) If you HAVE gone OBE, AND have a spirit guide, have they ever mentioned anything about this?  As in, "What the hell are you doing back here in the AP?  Get back in your body and learn, damnit!".  Why are they bothering to teach you things now?  Couldn't it wait until you're dead and back in the AP?  Couldn't you have learned up on things in the AP before you came to Earth?  Or does it all come back to the "We forget everything in transition" problem?


Does any of this make sense?  Sorry for the long rambling, it's just a difficult thing to get into words.