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SomehowSomewaySomeday

Yup, just another newbie with a bunch of questions. I'd appreciate some insight.

1)First and foremost, is astral projection REAL? I think this is the most important question of all. Now, I've read on various sites how some people say "well, what's real is subjective", or some other variety of that answer. Untrue. What's real is not subjective. Astral projection, phasing, OBEs, whatever you want to call them are only 1 of 2 things. Either these are extremely realistic lucid dreams, or they are the result one's consciousness leaving the physical body. Some say they are lucid dreams, some say it's your consciousness leaving your body and exploring the Real Time Zone and the astral. So which is it?

2)Astral time travel. This is another subject that not everybody agrees upon. I've read a fairly recent post here that got me thinking. Some say that anybody can travel back through time, even forward, but that while it's real, you can't interact with it one way or another. Still there are those that claim it's simply internal. And there are some who will actually go as far as saying if one wishes, they can enter themselves at any point in past and remain in their old body, physical that is. Thoughts?

3)So what about this "Our Ultimate Reality" book? Just watched the Google Video and found it interesting, but where do those facts come from? The only "true Holy Books" that I know of off hand are the Koran, the Torah, and of course the Bible, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I may add a few more questions, but for the time being, this is it. Thanks in advance.

Venus_Goddess_of_Love

Hi there newbie,

I am new to this forum myself, but am currently on a consciousness development course and have had two fully conscious recent OBEs.  So I'll try and answer your questions the best way I can.

Re lucid dream vs OBE

I know it's confusing to have so many terms for this phenomena but it is all a question of the level of 'lucidity'.   Your ability to have an out of body experience depends on how lucid you are.  For example you could have a semi-lucid dream where you are aware that you are dreaming but you're not entirely in control.  On the other hand, you could find yourself fully lucid following a semi-lucid dream, which means you are in total control, and can make logical decisions, sense and interact with others just as in your waking state (even more effectively).  Saying this, some dreams remain just dreams produced by the physical brain and not your astral consciousness.  This is when the brain 'defragments' just as computers do, to clear out unwanted information.

Time travel

When you are out of your body, you could go back in time, to your past reincarnations.  Remember there is no space-time element on the astral plane.  Everything is in the NOW. The future also exists as several 'possiblities' and is not set in stone.  This is because we have free-will and can shape our future the way we want it.  In an OBE, you could see a possiblity but you are able to change it if you want to.  One more thing I want to say on this is that, I personally believe that our purpose for a visit back in time or forward, or anywhere has to somehow help us in our evolution.  Unless there is a good reason and a lesson in it, our own consciousness and helpers don't simply obey our wish to do anything we want out of sheer curiosity or fun.

As to being real, once you are able to distinguish which one is a dream and a lucid dream and work on increasing your level of lucidity, you will know which plane is real and which one isn't.  As I said above, I have experienced two very real OBEs, so much so that I'm now wondering if our life on Earth is real. 

Finally, I'd just like to point out that a lot of people reject these ideas and discourage others because of lack of knowledge.  I suggest to you to read and learn from professionals.  Go to an established college, read books, and talk to experienced people. There are quite a few experienced astral projectors on this forum so you could learn from them too.

Welcome and good luck with your astral journey

Venus
xx
"This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet." Rumi

Zante

#2
Venus, new to the community or not, if you can tell the difference between the two then you're in a very good position. A fully immersive experience feels far more real than anything else, so fresh and clear.

There's a lot of confusion regarding this.

Stookie

#3
Would you rather have a lucid-dream that changes your life, or an OBE that is pointless?

Zante

#4
Quote from: Stookie on April 07, 2008, 12:14:40
Would you rather have a lucid-dream that changes your life, or an OBE that is pointless?

That depends entirely on the change. An OBE that is pointless is still another chance to experience the rush you get from a fully immersive experience; they're always life changing if you know how to appreciate them.

The issue here is not one of preference, not many people are able to distinguish between the two as they've never had a fully conscious OBE, they may have had lucid dreams of the concept but it's not the same, as similar as they might seem on paper.

Truly conscious immersion is fantastic.


Venus_Goddess_of_Love

Thanks Zante.  I have had two absolutely fantastic OBEs so I suppose I have a point of reference.  But from what I know so far, the consciousness leaves the body every time we sleep.  Most times, it's hovering just above the body, sometimes further away - and it depends on how lucid we are for us to remember the events after awakening. That's my understanding anyway.  :-)
"This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet." Rumi

VagusEques

Yes, Astral Projection is real. What exactly that means, I'm not sure of. But keep trying, and you will eventually experience some common systems. The two I've experienced so far (and personally know other people who have had the same experience) are a feeling of being electrically shocked. There is no doubt. It's not a dream. The second one is become aware while still sleeping (you'll know when you get there) and feelings yourself being shaken by a rushing-type sound you will hear.

These are roadmarks that many people report independently of each other, so I would say there is definitely something to astral projection. What exactly it is is still uncertain, partly because our scientific instruments are not yet well-enough developed to track all that goes on during a "projection."

PeacefulWarrior

Quote from: Venus_Goddess_of_Love on April 04, 2008, 19:19:44
One more thing I want to say on this is that, I personally believe that our purpose for a visit back in time or forward, or anywhere has to somehow help us in our evolution.

Very well said!  One thing most people interested in the OBE phenomenon and other "extraordinary" phenomena do is lose focus of what truly matters: spiritual evolution.  Part of spiritual evolution is the overcoming of suffering and fear which, inevitably, leads to selfless service which is primarily concerned with relieving the suffering of others and demonstrating compassion towards them.  If an experience, thought, etc. is not moving one forward toward this goal then it is moving them backward.
We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Elliot
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fides quaerens intellectum