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Author Topic: Something I noticed, and questions for you  (Read 5271 times)
jilola
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« on: August 02, 2002, 15:17:57 »

If you've used the imagery to fall asleep then it should be a good tool for OBEing as well (IMHO). Just modify the goal a bit so that you don't loose awareness. If you can affect the imagery the try to concentrate on forming a stable image as a way of keeping your concentration strong.
For me the imagery is bad in the sense that I get lost in it. I have to find a way to rid my mind of it altogether and stilling the mind seems to do the trick.

I doubt that your energy body can run out of energy if you live a healthy life, get enough rest and manage to keep relatively stress free.
It may be that you're trying to teach yourself a lesson. Maybe that you don't *really* need a specific technique to achieve the goal but th eright mindset or something.
Maybe examining the way you feel before an attempt and the after the attempt would shed some light on the issue. It may be that you need to do something else get be able to proceed (Tom reported a dry spell on the thread "Inhibiting natural talent" or moe such). I don't think one can force an AP any more than one can force any kind of spiritual development.

Here's the bone http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>: Persistence will work but persistence doesn't mean hitting your head against a wall. It means that you need to take a step back and look for the door.

I have any amount of energy in exchange of the Russian stout you bragged about http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

2cents

jouni

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WalkerInTheWoods
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2002, 15:19:36 »

You brought up something that I have thought a little about. Is sleeping something that we learn to do and not just something that happens naturally? Clearly if you are exhausted your body will go to sleep. But what about at night when we lay down. What we do to go to sleep, is that something we have learned to do so that we can go sleep? I just wonder because I have a daughter that is almost 9 months old. Sometimes it just seems like she does not know how to fall asleep, or maybe she just does not want to. Just something I have wondered.

I go through dry spells too. It usually helps if you do not stick with just one technique. Practice several. When one does not work try another, try a combination of them, experiment. Then sometimes there are times when I just cannot project. But there is usually a reason, like I am too excited about something else or something is just on my mind. Taking a break for a few days and not doing anything related to projecting can help too. As to why this happens I am not sure. It might have something to do with how we are thinking about it. Like maybe it is becoming too routine to were you are not actually doing it right. I am not really sure, but use it as I time to take a break or experiment with new things.

GOOD LUCK!

 
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2002, 15:19:36 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Patty
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2002, 15:55:01 »

Thanks guys!

You're both right. Jouni, I need to look for the door. Fallnangel, I need to try more variation and consider there might be something else going on.

maybe what is going on is my fear of outcome with my next card trial. Maybe my subconsciuos is either afraid of success (because that would put the odds of my cumulative success into the 'highly improbable due to chance' category - which would require an overhaul of my belief system) or failure (because failure really sucks.) I have considered changing goals for a while - maybe stop looking for verification for a few runs.  Maybe I just need to meditate on accepting that my belief system might need to change. No small potatoes to my way of thinking. Maybe if i can go into the attempt with more acceptance of a possible belief-system crash  - maybe I will have more luck.

Taking a break always seems to help. But I don't want to. i want to be able to strengthen my limited abilities through practice and discipline.  I guess maybe I have control issues too!

I'm going to keep at it. Interacting on this forum is so helpful, I really am going to go for a push for the next couple days. Saturday nights usually have been good for me to try - because I can sleep late sundays.

I welcome ALL input, thanks again!

(ps about 9 month olds, I have two small children. Your little one WILL learn, and it is so hard to watch them struggle with this. I think that we learn how to consciously relax to facilitate sleep. I think that the images that I drift off with - without realizing it til last night - are a method I learned over the years. I am sorry that your little one is going through this, even though many babies do, it is hard to feel so tired yourself and so helpless.)

Patty
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rodentmouse
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2002, 17:25:02 »

Patti i relate to what your saying here....
it seems i am getting nowhere but still i do my training every night,  even having one night "off"  would be the start of me losing interest in it...this i DO NOT want to happen,  ive  had little "astral projection" phases all through the last 8 or so years ever since i  eard about it,  but  now its a part of my life instead of just an interest....this is 100% due to reading the treatise which offered more than visualisation tecniques which im no good at.

the rope trick never worked for me either, so i made my own exit tec...
i imagine a cube hovering above my chest about 30cm and then imagine it going into my chest,  this tricks my mind into thinking that my body is being pulled to the cube rather than my body pulling the cube......like robert said try whats best for you.

every time im about to exit a little giddy voice in my head starts to get excited and i lose concentration.... Sad

with the learning, try and remeber the first time you heard of astral projection and the night you actually tried to project for the first time,  think back to how wrong you were about approaching it  (well i was anyway) and see how through practise your knowledge has grown on the subject.

i come on this forum every night before training to get me into the right mind.

 
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James S
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2002, 08:30:56 »

Patty,

If your trying using some form of external stimuli to help you, have a think about which one of your senses would be the most responsive. Are you most stimulated by vision, sound or smell. You might find something more effective in the form of audio or aromatherapy. Despite the average male being mostly stimulated by sight, for me sound has the most profound effect.

I have unknowingly gone into deep trance states while listening to certain instrumental tracks. Though as you know I've not yet A.P.'d, some of the closest encounters I've had have been zoning out listening to music that can lead me to getting caught up in a full on visualization.

If I can sidestep a little here to a funny tale -
Once at a party I did just that checking out a really awesome Bang & Olufsen stereo system a friend of mine had behind a mini bar in their loungeroom. the party had moved outside, so I pulled up a beanbag, stuck the headphones on and listened to a late night radio show. This show played a number of tracks (each being usually about 20-25 minutes long) by a German electronic group called Tangerine Dream (already had several albums of theirs & just loved their stuff). I got so far into it I just shifted out of this world for a bit. The spot behind the bar where the stereo was was fairly dark, so nobody paid any attention to me there, but I could see the rest of the room just fine. Anyway, a couple of hours later, my friend shook me out of my trance, told me the party had finished, and asked me if I'd seen the couple that had apparently been full on bonking on the lounge directly opposite me. I hadn't seen a thing! My whole conciousness and all my senses had just wrapped themselves around the music and reality just closed the door on me for a while. I know I hadn't gone to sleep, my eyes were apparently wide open and I was just moving slightly to the music, but hours had gone by without me knowing it. On finding out that I had been in the room at the time, this amorous couple went bright red and flipped out. I had to tell them several times that I just hadn't seen a thing. Still not sure if they believed me. Oh well...

James S
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2002, 08:30:56 »



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Frank
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2002, 08:37:04 »



Patty: I think you have developed a tad of ego attachment to whatever were the techniques you were using. It's easy done. With the result that you start thinking about making it happen, rather than simply allowing it to happen while following your particular path of growth.

Your path can often turn a sharp left or right and, sometimes you keep going straight-on not realising. Suddenly you find yourself in a blind alley, i.e. you stop progressing.

Please do always bear in mind that your "projection technique" will change as you develop and grow. Tendency is, when you move on a step, you find what worked for you before has now become a stumbling block. There lies the difficulty. Precisely because doing X, Y & Z worked for you before, you naturally get attached to doing it.

I still maintain that the answers to the questions you seek exist within the Astral and not the RT zone. As a result, it is to the Astral that I believe you are being directed.

You need to take the imagery and concentrate on maintaining just one image. It doesn't really matter what it is, the simpler the better. Then allow your focal post of awareness to rise upwards and meet it.

Whilst doing this, you need to make sure you don't verbalise anything in your mind. When I say verbalise I mean like when you read something, there's an inner-voice that reads the words for you. You need to keep that silent, otherwise your focal point of awareness will not rise from the throat.

Yours,
Frank
 




 
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Patty
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2002, 15:22:27 »

thanks some more!

RM - your technique sounds like something I was doing a few years ago. Similar, not exactly the same. I was trying to raise energy and I would envision a block of pure white energy moving into my chest. Amazing sensation.   Thank you also for the reminder that we continue to learn and grow. I also feel real dedication at present, thanks to this forum.

James, your story is very funny. I was in a similar situation once to your friends across the room - I won't go into details but I can sympathize with them! So funny that you were unaware. I will spend some time looking at which senses speak most to me. Perhaps I can tune in, in another way.

Frank, thanks for your thoughts, having your alternative perspective is invaluable. I am definitely a 'method' type person. I like to understand the mechanism behind things. You're right about ego attachment and I will try to be more open to other possibilities of travel. That's really good advice, similar to some of the other tips. Although in terms of destination, I feel like I am in complete harmony with my higher self and guides on this one. I feel like every time I tune into guidance, that the real time zone is what is best for my present growth, due to my life history (which I haven't gone into much, here.)  Still, I always *highly* welcome your input - from my perspective we are all like the five blind men describing an elephant by feel (do you know that story?) I can't get a complete picture without input from the guy on the other side of the elephant.  We'll see - I may decide to try for a high level astral projection, give it a try and see what it holds.

thank you everyone, I am so glad to have this forum -



Patty
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Windameir
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2002, 19:06:44 »

Patty,
Observations from the peanut gallery,....
Possably worthless but give it a read anyway http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

You asked if people ever feel like they are out of energy...
Sometimes I do but that seems to translate into "I need to sleep" which usually leads to really cool dreams http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> Especially after raising energy.
If I try and force my progress it seems like I just loose ground.
By Reading your posts it seems like maybe you might be trying too hard.
Think Zen -Try without Trying,  I know you said you try to stay rather zen but im not convinced of your sincerety on this matter.
Also you said " I am definitely a 'method' type person. I like to understand the mechanism behind things." And this might just be the problem ..While I value greatly your need to know how things work there is allways time to disect things later Right now what you need is to relax and let things happen  instead of holding them under a microscope, get the roadblock out of the way first.
 It just seems to me that maybe you are rather unflexable about your methods. Ask if you are being honest with yourself. "Am I willing to stray from my safe tried and true methods" Even knowing that they arn't working or am I holding on to them stubbornly if so why can't I let them go?
Sometimes in our search for proof we forget to enjoy ourselves along the way.
Anyway I hope this offers some food for thought.

Happy Travels
Windameir

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ralphm
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2002, 20:40:20 »

I think there is some form of tension that affects our ability to be able to initiate the projection process- some combination of physical exertion, mental state, psychic influences the come from other people- hard to find it exactly but i can feel it .
I think i have not been able to trance as easily lately because i spend a lot of time working outside in the heat trying to get a big project done, not meditating as much because kids are home for the summer, and being the focal point of my wife's anger.
The only time lately that i was close to projecting was at the worst moment- i did about 5 min. of breathing relaxation, then i started to get vibrations and some sort of astral vision was starting up, however my wife was wandering in and out of the bedroom and my 13 year old daughter had friends over and was playing music in the room above me (why do they listen to the same 3 songs forever?) Why didn't this happen in the middle of the night when the house was quiet?

 
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2002, 21:27:36 »

Hi Windameir and Ralph,

Windameir, your post is generating new thoughts..... Thank you .......


Ralph - I agree. I feel like there are different things that contribute, and they aren't things we control. So many things. Tension is a good word for it. Sometimes I can trance so easily, other times my mind is racing, or a song won't leave my head. I feel different.

Sometimes I wake up knowing I can walk away, and I do. Sometimes I wake up and know that I can't.  

I am of two minds about OBE, as intimated throughout this thread. One mind says to let it happen on it's own. The other mind says that as with everything else in life, practice pays off. Balance is important to me, I don't know how to balance these well. In the past I have swung back and forth. Maybe that is balance. I would rather stick to a more steady balance.

oh gee, I'm starting to ramble. lots of grist for the mill here, thank you everyone.

Patty
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jilola
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2002, 21:37:50 »

Patty:So many accounts of OBE have one thing in common. All the work done relaxing, calming the mind and creating a ppressure to exit ie. setting a point of concentration lead me to hypothesize that all we are really doing is setting the stage for an OBE to happen.
So from a balance point of view you can still practise and work on AP by practising the setting the stage part. But evidently forcing the actual projection seems to hit a wall so here's where you need to take the step back and relax the effort a bit.

Swinging from one end to the other may be called dynamic balance but what AP seems to require is static balance, a state where we are still within our minds and are focused on a single goal.

2cents

jouni
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Patty
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2002, 22:10:51 »

So I tried putting my agenda to the side. I tried to get into a light trance, and, trusting that my higher self has my best interests at heart, asked what I should try next. Interestingly, as near as I can figure, the answer was along the lines of "stop enjoying trance" or "stop trancing" or something like that. (You know, they don't always speak so clearly.)

So I tried to get the trance to a different place, one that was not as deep and enjoyable (peaceful, serene, restful) by barely twitching two of my fingers on my right hand. I just kept them barely moving for the next little while (twenty minutes?) It kept me feeling less buzzy and more alert.

I still eventually fell asleep, but I think this is a possible thing to explore. The idea that maybe sometimes we sink too fast. So sometimes, trying to keep it lighter might be actually prolong the various stages. (In a good way.)

For the first time I had something that felt like purposeful sleep paralysis, but only for a split second. I was twitching my fingers, and concentrating on that (And thinking that this might be a stimulus to focus on as long as I kept it simple and all) . Anyway, at one point, I couldn't move them, and though it didn't frighten me, it got my attention - I thought "Whoa, I am trying to move my fingers and they aren't responding" but the state passed before I even finished the thought.

Hardly a breakthrough, hardly worth mentioning, but I think it was a learning session nonetheless. And you can see elements of all your feedback in the experience, so another THANK YOU.

Patty
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jilola
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2002, 22:17:44 »

It seems we are reflections of each other! I tend to end up in a sleep paralyzed state instead of AP. A drag if you ask me http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
"Stop Trancing". Hmm strange advice. How do you feel about getting into a trance state? (I know I' beating a dead horse here but I sometimes get fixated on an idea). If you look at the phases preceding your usual APs what do you see emotiowise? Maybe the advise means that you should just get out of your body and not pay attention to trances and such things.
Isn't the intentional paralysis a hoot?! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_cool.gif" border=0>

2cents

jounii
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Patty
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2002, 23:38:32 »

I have enjoyed every step of the process. From the anticipation during the day, to setting the cards out and getting the kids to bed, to settling into my relaxation mode, to trance, to awake/asleep line, to exit, and wandering around the house without a body.

It's all enjoyable to me. Even the weird stuff like muscle jerks - seems to be part of the process and I love the process.

It's hitting a wall that I don't enjoy so much Sad

I don't want to go into the subject of emotions, because it seems to me that I am rather a loner here on that one.  It's unlikely that I am going to change my mind on emotions, and I don't want that to be a stumbling block in my interactions with all the wonderful people here. I guess it is something that I feel strongly about, hee hee. But although I value emotions, I think that it is good to express them in a healthy way for all - so I can accept the idea that it might be necessary to set them aside in certain circumstances. And that they might act as a distraction.

I don't know precisely what the message was - it was a negative feeling and the idea of trance. I went with what seemed reasonable, and I am not dissatisfied with the result. I think I will try to keep my agenda out of it for a while, and try to keep a dialog going with my higher self. Maybe things will become clearer.

Patty
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jilola
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2002, 23:46:08 »

I don't mean to say that we should set our emotions aside as something to be gotten rid of. No way!
Emotions are the reflection sor our higher selves nin the physical world.
Emotions are a wondrous tool once we learn to understand why we feel a certain way. They should never be set aside but rather set in perspective in regard to the current endeavour. They can help and hinder us enormously.
 
quote:
It's all enjoyable to me. Even the weird stuff like muscle jerks - seems to be part of the process and I love the process

Now think why you feel that way. Do you love the process or the destination?

2cents

jouni
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Patty
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2002, 01:16:49 »

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I thoroughly enjoy both. If I had choose one over the other, I'd choose the destination.  


Patty
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jilola
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2002, 01:31:36 »

It's a bit of a trick question.
What I'm getting at is hard for me to put into words. The core idea is that we shouldn't get attached to either the goal or the way.
Choosing the goal is my choice as well.
But the way and the goal together form the totality of the spiritual advancement in our lives.
Please forgive the phrasing and mystery but I can't express it any clearer.
It's like a spiral where we set a goal and the work on a way to achieve it. But once acieved the goal ceases to be the focus and the way becomes lost. So another goal needs to be set and a new way found. This is the nature of the life we have.
And this is the dilemma you seem to have. You wish to be able to project and have found a way. But now that you've had the OBEs the way is no longer valid? So you seek another way to the goal.
I think this is close to what is meant by "The way that can be seen is not the Way" (or some such from Tao Te Ching) .
Having an OBE is a valid desire (have to think that as I'm hell bent on having one http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>) and it enables us to learn a great deal.

whoops.. I don't know how all that translates into an OBE but it does sound damn good. I'll post it anyway just in case someone can do something with it.

2cents

jouni
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2002, 05:21:36 »

I once read that the Dali Lama said that desires aren't bad, we just need to refine our desires to be good for us and the world. Unfortunately it takes so long!
Patty, I was going to post this after after reading your post on the wake up card but censored my scorpio side- sounds like you need to let go of the control aspect and learn to enjoy the reality fluctuations!

 
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2002, 07:38:45 »

Hi Patty, hows it going !

I haven't had anything resembling "exit sensations" or "astral sight" in a while...and the rope technique has only (partially) worked for me once...so I understand your frustration !! It seems that the more you try, the harder it gets.

As for your points at the start of this thread :
1) Try a different technique each attempt.
but more crucially ...
2) Get excited about it !

Having read everyone's responses.....i realized that every time I had success, I had been reading about projection, and I learnt something new about it which intrigued me....This "new stuff" would send me to bed with a bit of a buzz of excitement. Whatever was going on in my head as I went to sleep, I'm convinced that it stayed in my head as I fell asleep, and somehow triggered the experiences that I have had.....

 
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Patty
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2002, 13:57:57 »

Hi Ralph,

This is in response to your post, but not directed at you.

Releasing control is often a good thing. Thank you for the reminder. I am very thankful also for the point from the Dalai Llama. I think he's right.  When I make an effort to focus on the good of all, I see a difference in my perspective.

That being said, at some point a few years ago I was spending a lot of time meditating upon my desire to control the scenario. Trying to discern a good 'path' for my journey.  (this is something I continue to do now and then.) I truly feel that for me, the real time zone and verification is what I need to be doing.  It's a long story, and I am not the typical "type" that develops an interest in AP. I am mathematically oriented, went into science, not nearly as artistic as many that I have met in the NDE/OBE circles I have visited. When I looked at the path of my life, it seemed to me that I had been brought to where I was by design. That path included strange phenomena, but throughout the course of my life an intense respect for understanding the strength of the scientific method pervaded. This was from the time I was born and continues to this day. The people and events in my life. The ones who are important to me, they are scientists. It is clear to me to try to balance the 'measuring' approach to the 'freeflow' approach, and not to discard one in favor of the other.

There is a lot of value in being free from defining anything as this or that. But I firmly believe that there is also a lot of value in defining this or that. Some would value a trip to the higher astral realms with all the strange elements that don't translate into words. But no matter how real or how much impact such an experience held, if I was uncertain what the basis of it was, (whether it was a hallucination or 'real')  I would eventually discount it. I know this about myself.

I have seen some people in the past who have claimed to have seen something approaching God in its magnitude. They have said that it was a life changing event, that it took them months to integrate the experience into their lives. I have to say, that I hold considerable skepticism that such an experience could be integrated in a matter of months.  The loss of my daughter took years for me to integrate into my life.  As tragic as such a death is, shouldn't meeting God be a little more profound than the death of one's child?

Did I mention that I am a taurus?

I believe God gave us the strength of our analytical minds for a reason. Monroe made some such realization through his travels as well. I am not trying to prove OBE's are real for anyone but myself. And I am not willing to invest much time in them if they are not anything beyond 'vivid dreams.'  Dreams are valuable, but I learn from my non-lucid dreams. Trying to leave the body or to dream lucidly is physically draining for me. If it represents 'training' for something then I don't mind. If it represents excursions into a 'real' place then I don't mind. But if it represents strange dreams produced by the subconscious that have no external validity, then I don't wish to spend my time on pursuing it (though I would still enjoy the spontaneous events.).

Again, this is not directed at you, Ralph. I guess I maybe have wanted to say some of this stuff for a while and haven't.  I fully agree that one needs to release control. I certainly do release control. Living well for all people is very important to me, and I try to keep that in mind at most times. I try lots of variations, sometimes trying for an astral realm for the sole sake to see if my convictions are misguided. But I don't have any luck there, either.

I just fall asleep lately. I am starting to think that it is mostly a matter of being tired.  I plan to keep at it. Trying different variations, etc.

Thanks again guys, I hope you'll still have me around.

Patty
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Patty
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2002, 14:26:15 »

I also meant to mention that - if the meaning of life has anything to do with "God trying to understand itself" or "God trying to experience itself," then there should be plenty of room for everyone's approach.

I try to say this regularly - I am really glad that we all come to this forum from our own unique places.  I feel very fortunate to have found this group.

Patty
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2002, 14:28:20 »

Patty: we will sure have you around! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_cool.gif" border=0>
Now some of my comments.
Desires are a part of us that can't be eradicated and it shouldn't. Why deny something that in essence drives us forward? Too do so would be to seek imbalance instead of balance in our lives. But desires for their own sake are a completely different issue.  Much like D. Lama said.

Defining things. We need to define things as this or that in order to differentiate between them. Differentiation is necessary as the only way to learn is to see and understand the differences and use them constructively. (oops How's that for pop philosophy? it sounded better in my head )
But having defined things we shouldn't get hung up on the definitions and become impervious to change.

Which brings us to control, the release of. We need control. Without control and definition we end up being the spritual amoebas with no discernible goal or purpose. But control doesn't mean we have to abandon intuition. "Releasing control" in my opinion means accepting the intuitive part of our nature as equally valid as the logical control part.

Meeting something like  God or the Ultimate Source Of Everything would more likely reduce the experiencer into a blithering puddle than cause a few months of internalization. Of course everybody's experience is different but for me it would pretty much mean the end of everything and possibly the beginnin g of something totally different.

2cents

jouni
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Tisha
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2002, 15:10:27 »

Earth to Taurus, Earth to Taurus!  Your earthly life is calling you.   (I'm a Taurus too!)  In the past, I have gone 6 months and more without a single AP or otherworldly experience.  I've wondered about these dead-spaces, but in then decided not to let them bother me.  I figured there was a reason for it, and sure enough, once some time passed, and once I developed the proper (i.e.,  trippy)  kind of mindset again, the OBE activity kicked in.

I posted a response to Alpha awhile ago . . . I said that sometimes the body has to take some time to integrate lessons learned on the Astral.  These lessons will often manifest in your ordinary life . . . in your relationships primarily, even if it is just your relationship with yourself.  So, ask yourself, What's different now?  Look at your ordinary life and see how your spiritual practices are changing it.   You need to work these changes on the earthly plane for awhile.  

For instance, I've had math anxiety all of my life.  In college, used to have to get drunk before starting my math homework.  However, I've recently had several (lucid) dreams about going back to college to learn math and science.  Instead of making me horribly anxious, I decided (in my dreams) that I was going to bring this part of my life into balance.  I was going to BEAT this thing, my anxiety.  I'm taking a statistics course now.  I haven't stopped meditating, or looking forward to AP/OBE-type experiences. However, I HAVE accepted the fact that the whole point of spiritual growth is to have it affect your ORDINARY REALM.  And the "work" of the spirit takes place in some of the most banal moments of your daily life.

ABOUT CONTROL:  The problem is not being analytical per se, but in using analysis to control things.  You are dictating to the Spirit how It will Prove to you that OBE exists.  MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If I were you, I would put my playing cards away and contact my Spiritual Guide.  I would chat about my doubts and ask for advice.  If your Oversoul or Spiritiual Guide (or whomever) thinks Proof is good for you, he/she/it will arrange the proper event. The "proper event" might be something totally disconnected from cards or any empirical evidence.  It could be as simple as your Guide showing you a future scene that comes to pass.  Then, you could put your doubt to rest and move on to  the Next Lesson.  


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"
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Tisha
Patty
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2002, 15:35:59 »

As heretical as this sounds, the great thing about my guides is that it is a two-way relationship. We have an agreement, I spend a few seconds looking at my cards, then they show me whatever they wish.

They are free to blow me out of the water Smiley and they have on occasion. I'm actually very open.

I think you have hit one of the nails on the head with looking at life first. One reason I am not TOO bummed about being grounded lately is that so much effort really SHOULD be (and I think is) directed into earthly matters. My kids mostly, my relationships, and my personal development (identifying my ideas and beliefs, living with integrity, etc.) We're here for a reason after all!

But in the past I have, at this point, more or less shelved things for a while. Came at it fresh a few months later with new adventures to show for it, but wasn't really getting 'further' in my adventures, just more of the same.  I don't want to shelve it this time. I want to maintain some degree of focus and see if that will result in some new learning. A new level or something. More clarity, more control. Like the analogy to physical exercise and discipline. You can play a sport sporadically and have fun, or you can work at it with dedication and get better.

Sometimes, like you,  I think it is just a matter of integrating - who knows, in fact I might be projecting and integrating it on another level entirely.  I suspect that at some level I am. I had a dream that I projected only a few nights ago, and I worked on my astral sight, and I went to a distant star system and practiced breathing water. It was exhilarating. Was it a projection? I don't know, it was in the grey zone from ego-patty's perspective.  Maybe that sort of stuff is going on a lot and I don't tune in fully or something.

An interesting side note along these lines - I have been putting out cards from both of my decks for the last week. (My aces/face cards deck as well as my complete standard deck.) New cards every night. The weird thing is that four of the last seven nights if one card was a red ace, the other was too. If one card was a black face card, the other was too. One night, it was a red ace and a red 2. One night, it was a red ace and a black face card. I keep scratching my head in the morning, like "How weird - both cards are so similar again - where are all those 3's through 9's?

There seems to be a message trying to get through. The standard deck is definitely not behaving in a random fashion. I actually flipped through it this morning to make sure that it really was 52 different cards.

Jilola - it sounds like we agree. Especially about the blithering puddle. Smiley

XO



Patty
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Windameir
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2002, 21:58:06 »

Hi Patty http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
I know the pain of loosing a child too I lost my youngest child he was only 10 but I can't see any simularity between assimulating the loss of a child and assimulating the experience of meeting what someone would perceive as a god.
Have you ever wondered if what you experience every day was just a vivid dream that we just happen to be really well attuned too?

When I read your posts I keep being reminded of a Movie... Joe versus The Volcano Have you ever seen it? Well at the end when Joe (Tom Hanks) and Meg Ryan (Patrisha) Jump into a Volcano to save the Waponi and instead of dieing miraculously get blown back out and land in the sea while the Volcano blows up and the Island sinks and Joes Luggage pops to the surface to save the day again (they use it as a raft) while sitting ontop of their raft seemingly safe they have a discussion where Joe finds out hes Not really dieing of a brain cloud (Patrisha's Father has set him up to jump into the volcano by using his private doctor to convince Joe that he has this Fatal illness) anyway Joe finds out hes not going to die after all..and All Seems Well they are safe and together on the raft  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> but Joe being the way he is Looks around and says ...Well... we Are out in the middle of nowhere...out in the ocean... stuck on this raft ....And Patrisha says You Know Joe Its Always Gonna be something with You isn't it http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> ...Joe says Yeah... I guess so.  I Love this Movie, Does the ending remind you of anything? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>{{{{HUGS}}}}
OH talk about discourgeing  I went to the doc and got some injections that are supposed to help releive some of my back pain, well one of the side affects are I find it really hard to sleep for a couple of days, so thinking Ill put this to good use for obe (I know Im not gonna drift off (heh)so I try energy raising,meditation stimulating energy centers full body circut everything I can think of to start the vibes going but all I accomplish is laying awake all night long ... Gesh!  LOL
Oh Well http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

HappyTravels
Windameir

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