Switching to non-physical realities

[MagikOwl]

Or more specifically, learning how to do it from begining to the end consciously.

Let's just say i'm very good at the begining part (a sort of mini-dream state) and I have some experience of the end (unvolontary acces to non-physical from time to time), but the middle part is what's missing for me wich is, I think, what everyone is strungling with.

More recently, it has been my belief that practicing alone is now counter-productive and that I should interact more with people who practice in order to have a better understanding of some concept or maybe a different view point that can show me new way of thinking.

I have follow your advice Lumaza about "applying more patience to the process", wich make sense when you think about it. I have increase my session length and try to let the mini-dreams come and go. I just had 3 sessions so it's a bit early to judge but I have realize that each access to the mini-dream make me less and less aware of my physical body. It feel like the process of switching to non-physical realities really need me out of the way for a few seconds in order to prepare my body for the experience (or sleep if I fail), and it is doing it bit by bit at its own pace. Wich leads me to some questions to Lumaza when you say

it won't always be like that though. Nowadays, I can jump in and hone onto my first visual. But that came through a lot of trial and error. I learned to completely "hone in" on them now. That seems to be the name of the game in this practice. Learning how to passively observe is a skill that is very important with this practice.

How do you "hone" a visual and does it help you accelerate the process by doing so ? For me, I don't control the length of time it take to start the process or the length of time between mini-dreams or anything else actually. It can be very fast or increadibly slow like my last session where I spent 1h30 in the mini-dreams, it felt like only 30mn has passed and I had to stop it cause I had to take care of other stuff. Last week, only a 40mn to spare for a session and I was deep inside a scene in what feel like 15mn or so. It really depend on my mood I think, but I would like to know if you can have more control over it ?

For those of you reading this and are interested to try, you just have to seat or lie in your couch/bed/sofa it doesn't matter, and let your awareness wander where it wants to, like when you are taking a nap or when you go to sleep.
At some point you will see that you are naturally captivated by some thoughts or images, it will feel like you lost yourself in your own mind for a few seconds, this is the "mini-dream state" as I call it.
Observe the thoughts/images come and go, you will be captivated by what you see for 3-4 seconds and then you will come back to where you seat/lie.
You will have a tendency to look at it but whatever you were looking at will disapear, until the next one come up and it will feel like you playing on a seesaw or "yo-yo" with your body, few seconds in the image, 1 or 2 minutes in the body and so on.
If that's the case, well you reach my level, it's really not that hard to reach but it's the "balancing act" that come after that is an unknown to me.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
You should try 1 hour less sleep every night for a while. You'll find things move faster and you can also create your own scenes and it's easy to jump in. Once proficient things can move forwards really smoothly. Once you're comfy it takes less than 5 mins to be in otherwhere.

[Lumaza]

Or more specifically, learning how to do it from begining to the end consciously.

Let's just say i'm very good at the begining part (a sort of mini-dream state) and I have some experience of the end (unvolontary acces to non-physical from time to time), but the middle part is what's missing for me wich is, I think, what everyone is strungling with.

You say you are good at the beginning and the end, but not the middle, is this because you "click out"/lose consciousness during the middle?

More recently, it has been my belief that practicing alone is now counter-productive and that I should interact more with people who practice in order to have a better understanding of some concept or maybe a different view point that can show me new way of thinking.

I agree. Obviously the practicing part has to be done alone. But having a "network" of helpers like this Forum has that are ready to aid you in your quest is very helpful.
When I was new here, I read every Sticky. I read Xanth's primer, Adrian's book, David Warner's website, Frank's PDF, basically everything I could get my hands on. Each one had great hints and tip to help me on my quest as well.

I have follow your advice Lumaza about "applying more patience to the process", wich make sense when you think about it. I have increase my session length and try to let the mini-dreams come and go. I just had 3 sessions so it's a bit early to judge but I have realize that each access to the mini-dream make me less and less aware of my physical body. It feel like the process of switching to non-physical realities really need me out of the way for a few seconds in order to prepare my body for the experience (or sleep if I fail), and it is doing it bit by bit at its own pace. Wich leads me to some questions to Lumaza when you say.

Learning to be patient and applying that to the process is very important. But there are other things you can do that "indirectly' will aid you in your explorations.

I read what you posted here last night. I didn't post here right away because I wanted to do my Phase session based on your question. Some of the answers I received even surprised me. I was told to follow the 3 M's. Mindset, Motion and lastly "Memory". That was the one that I didn't expect. I thought it would be more like mindset, motion and visualization, but it was soon explained to me why "Memory" seemed to be important too. Not actually "a memory, but more like where memories occur in our brains. It seems to be the same place that "ideas" are born. Hence the cartoon caption of a light bulb when we have that profound thought that just arises. When a person remembers something, they seem to be accessing a different "screen", per se. The visual plays in the "Mind's eye". I am not a Neurologist or anything like that, but when I remember something, I tend to feel my eyes looking upwards. It doesn't feel like I am accessing my normal visual cortex. I feels like this visual is coming from a entirely different compartment. That's the key here. We want to get away from the visual screen and up to the Mind's eye as fast as we can. Simply because when you have accessed that higher screen, you have completely released your focus on your physical realty here.

How do we do that. There are a number of ways. Throughout the last 8 years here I have experimented with a number of techniques. I have trained myself on a daily basis how to access the NP quite quickly.

When I was new here, the first technique I tried that I had fantastic results with was "Candle staring". Just as it implies, you basically stare at the lit flame of a candle for about you then first blow the candle out. You then "immediately" close your eyes and now you are seeing the imprint of that flame in your visual screen. You do this when it is totally dark so that flame is imprinted in your eyes. You then hold that image as long as you can. When it fades, bring it back. Ignore everything else but that flame. You are now "honing" in on that image. It's simple to do and if you are serious about it, you will definitely experience something. It could be signposts of the onset of a shift in consciousness or it could actually go into a full blown scene.

Later in my practice I saw the movie "Inception" and liked the way that Leonardo's character targeted a child's "spinning" top toy. I still use that one today. I found it easy to "target" and hone in completely on that top as it spun. Many times that visual would morph and I would onto that for as long I could. In a way, it's like "stretching a muscle" that is seldom used.

One day while just staring into the darkness before my closed eyes, I began playing around with sports activities. Well, actually first, I was having a projection and ended up in a game of beach volleyball. I realized, as I was supposed to, that's why it was taught to me, that focusing on action sports was a great way to loose my physical reality focus. One of my favorites was shooting a basketball. I was never a big Basketball player in my youth. But the motion of shooting the ball is based on repetition. Just a side note here, RIP Kobe and thanks for the memories. I don't watch Basketball at all today, but it did in the past when Kobe, Shaq, Michael Jordan, Barkley and all the other greats played. I was a big fan then.

So, I would close my eyes and go through the mental motions of shooting hoops. The thing I didn't know until today was that I wasn't really visualizing it with my closed eyes, I was instead remembering how I did it with my "mind's eye". I would be so deep into this action that soon things began occurring that I didn't mentally image. At first, it was just the feeling of holding the ball and shooting it. Soon a net appeared. Then someone began passing the ball back to me. Pretty soon I was in a 5 on 5 game. That's what happened when I "locked" in to the visual.

Next I played around with ping pong, tennis, yo-yoing, one of Lightbeam's favorites "jumping on a Trampoline". All of those action based exercises would lead to some kind of adventure.

I then started playing around with "Phantom Wiggling" as talked about in the thread on this Forum here. I found that I really liked "motion". I soon began to target motion based on directions. As of, up/rising, down/plummeting, left and right seemed to be "veering" in said direction. Forward would be akin to a roller coaster ride or driving simulation and backwards, well roller coasters go backwards too.

My better half and I create handmade Dragons that we sell at Renaissance Faires. The color of the Dragon is based on elements Air/yellow, Earth/green, Fire/red, Water/blue. So, I began working more with Element based visuals.
Everyday in my daily Phase session I do a "healing modality". This is basically creating a temple of light around me, then inviting those in need into it. At the end of that modality I do mentally say and see a Mantra. I say see because I have a visual that because I have a visual that accompanies it as well. The Mantra is ancient and goes like this. RA MA DA DA SA SAY SOH HUNG. At first when I started using the Mantra I would just mentally repeat it. Somewhere along the line, visuals accompanied it and they just happened to be Elements. RA was Sun/fire, MA water, DA the Earth, SA SAY and SOH were the Air and then there was weird explosion of energy going outwards correspond to the HUNG at the end. Pretty soon, all those images blended into one image where I see the "Temple". Above the Temple is the Sun/fire, in back flowing towards me is the water. Surrounding the "Temple" are flowers and grass. Air occurs when I suddenly feel a motion of flight and then lastly there is the energy rush or output at the end of it.

Why did I explain all this to you? Because I have people constantly saying "boy I wish I could do what you do" and "you are so much better at this than me". They don't see all the work behind the lines though. All the effort it has taken me to be able to that. To this day I still experiment whenever I can.

I don't want you to mirror what I do. It works for me. Only you know what works for you. Take what works from the Stickies and threads here on this Forum. Don't take it as set in stone though. Experiment.

Lastly we come to "Mindset". This is another important one. It's how we "disassociate" ourselves from our physical body focus. Every time I close my eyes to do a Phase session or even go to sleep, I mentally say "By my act of will I release my focus over my physical body". When I was first new here I was shown via a "NP mentor" that the faster you can disassociate yourself from your physical focus, the faster the shift would occur. I experienced in a number of different ways. One was watching as a bunch of little Pac man like characters ate my physical body away. I saw myself in another as a "outline in chalk", I watched in another how my body just seemed to dissolve while attempting some energy work and in yet another, I purposely "unzipped" my Human suit. Each one of these showed me the importance of ridding that focus as soon as I could.  
I prefer to experience the NP as a simple "point of consciousness". I never look for or at my hands/appendages, but if I find them necessary in some adventure, they will be there!

...and that's the end for now. I am getting "Typer's cramp", lol!


 

[MagikOwl]

Ahah WOW lumaza I did not expect such a complete answer  , thank you again for your patience and for all the good suggestions !!

You say you are good at the beginning and the end, but not the middle, is this because you "click out"/lose consciousness during the middle?

Yes, I practice 5 to 6 time a week, I have 1 unvolontary access every two weeks or so usualy due to a loss of consciousness. Last one was a few days ago, I was too tired to practice and lost consciousness, I regain consciousness in my room next to my body and I then practice coming back to the physical as slowly as I can to try and grasp the feeling of the transition. It seems so natural and easy when I do non-physical-->physical, but I cannot reproduce the same feeling from physical to non-physical.

I'm using Szaxx "Astral Blueprint"(I am stuck between part 2 and part 3 of the blueprint) and the Frank Kepple ressource as my main source of information because I can relate more easily to what I am reading, so I will allow half of my weekly sessions to experiment and try to mix my "technique" with some of your examples (I will see what I can do with your "Doorway technique" and how I can implement it in relation to my mini-dreams) and the other half just to observe the mini-dreams has you taught/told me earlier.

Lastly we come to "Mindset". This is another important one. It's how we "disassociate" ourselves from our physical body focus. Every time I close my eyes to do a Phase session or even go to sleep, I mentally say "By my act of will I release my focus over my physical body". When I was first new here I was shown via a "NP mentor" that the faster you can disassociate yourself from your physical focus, the faster the shift would occur. I experienced in a number of different ways. One was watching as a bunch of little Pac man like characters ate my physical body away. I saw myself in another as a "outline in chalk", I watched in another how my body just seemed to dissolve while attempting some energy work and in yet another, I purposely "unzipped" my Human suit. Each one of these showed me the importance of ridding that focus as soon as I could. 
I prefer to experience the NP as a simple "point of consciousness". I never look for or at my hands/appendages, but if I find them necessary in some adventure, they will be there!

That's something new to me, I am not sure how this work but I guess I will only know by trying 

Also thank you Szaxx for the tip, as you can see I am a big fan of your work  , I wanted to ask you a question regarding an old post of yours from 2013 :

Being passive is a major key to success. If your awareness is easily kept and you can get to the stage where you have no connection with the physical, a method of exit where you keep that state of  visualisations aka mini-dreams repeating, you can use this to exit on command. You are capable of creating the scene with all the synchronous noises within a couple of seconds and it seemingly enters you. Many other methods feel like you are entering the scene already created by who/whatever.
I'm still perfecting this and it's a little slow to develop. It works every time once the particulars have been met. A balance of sleep is required, not too much and not to little.
Once rested and aware it occurs as in the link provided at the very first mini-dream. I can get to that state within a minuit or two easily.
I have had decades of experiences so that may be cheating a little lol.
Your method is working well, a little fine tuning is required.
I'd guess your problem is jumping in to the scene too soon. I went through that trying to control everything. It fails every time. I stopped and let things just happen and everything fell into place. In the 80's Id go oob during lunchbreak at work. I had total control of everything including how much our time elapsed before it ceased. This was easily attained once familiar with dissassociation from the physical. Master this and the astral will become an immense playground.

I did not follow all your posting from that era until now but how good is your art of switching to non-physical today ? I'm just been curious as been able to do it in less than 5mn is one of my goal yet seems so far away from where I stand.

[Szaxx]

I have often been in my car at a shopping centre as the girls dissappear into their 'looking around for whatever' shopping trip. By parking in a quieter corner I know I'll not be disturbed too much and have simply relaxed and let go of this physical existence. The noises around are the last thing to go and once this has occurred I nowadays let the NP create a scene for me. Within a min or two I'm immersed into whatever is presented. This takes a few seconds once the noises are gone and there's no mini dreams now. It's a silky smooth ride as long as you've no emotional ties scraping within your mind. Letting go of the physical means total conscious self awareness and the mindset of never having more than a dream of being here. This 'physical world, meh' mindset detaches you perfectly.
It's far easier if a little tired and your body wants to relax. If you're ready for that afternoon nap, take advantage if safe to do so.

[Volgerle]

Letting go of the physical means total conscious self awareness and the mindset of never having more than a dream of being here.

Lovin' it. A sentence to printout and stick to your wall. So good.

[MagikOwl]

Hello again !

I wanted to give you guys an update on my pratice of accessing non-physical realities. It took me months but I am finally able to understand what was wrong with my pratice and since october I can now do it more or less at will  

Here is what I have discovered from my first post until now :

First, as soon as you calm the mind, the process start. This will probably be old news for a lot of people but when I was praticing at the begining I couldn't figure what exactly start the process, I just knew that if you wait long enough images start to appear in the blackness in front of you. This used to be the most boring part of my routine because it could sometimes take a long time for something to appear. This was until I realised that counting in my head or noticing stuff in the blackness in front of me trigger the start of the process way faster than just waiting. Having a small task/focus will simply calm the thunderstorm of thought I can have while seating in my couch after a long day and as soon as my mind is calm enough the first images in my mind start to appear automatically ! Understanding this has greatly reduce the time it take me to start the process, now I just need 10mn to do it, 15 if It's a bad day. You can use absolutely anything in order to calm the mind : visualization, the breath, counting in your head, noticing, hearing cars in the street, feeling your body and so on..When a thought come you just ignore it and continue on what were doing until something appear (yeah I know I have rediscover meditation ahah). If you are getting bored of counting just switch to something else as long as it's easy. At the begining, I used visualization to calm my mind but for some unknown reasons my body seems to tense (especially my eyes) if I'm not deep enough into the process so I switch to counting in my head and it worked, I could count in my head and being passive and relax at the same time ! The focus/task preference change from person to person, I have ask my friend who pratice as well and he find counting really boring and find visualization way easier for example.

Second, what I used to call "The mini-dream state" back in february is actually the transition from the physical to the non-physical. This strange state is something that start as soon as you calm your mind, random vivid images or scenario start appearing in the blackness in front of you and there is a kind of "yo-yo" effect where one moment your looking the images in a state of stupor and the next moment your back in the physical wondering how long you have been "clicking out". For months I was angry at myself because I was focusing on my task (counting or noticing) and always end up in this weird state thinking that I have failed because I wasn't focus enough or too tired/lazy. This was until last month when I decided to stop trying and let go just to see what could happen. "If I fall asleep at least I'll have good nap" I thought to myself. After a long time of clicking out repeatedly I finally ended up in the Void !! I thought at first that it was just and accident but I could repeat the same process the next day and again the day after ! Most of the time I end up in the void but sometime in a dream or in a OBE-like situation. And then it hit me, this state that I used to think was just me falling asleep (well technically I am) and failling my focus is actually a very detached state similar to sleep ! I was passively observing without even knowing it ! Even thought my awarness is greatly reduce in this state to the point where I have no sense of time or any idea of what I'm suppose to do I can still remember me looking at a scene without commenting or being attached to it and at the end of the process my awarness suddenly rise up and I'm in the Void ready to do whatever I want. Took me long enough but I now understand what it means to let go of the body and the physical reality  

I'm so happy to finally have found a way to do it but since this is all very recent I still have questions regarding the process :

1) Even though I'm able to access the Void or OBE when I want, there are conditions. I can only doing it during daytime in a seated or half lying position ! As soon as I try to do it at night when I'm going to bed, I end up falling asleep for real this time. The process start exactly the same way as during the day except that this time if I let go there is no "yo-yo effect" (maybe 2-3 if I'm lucky) and therefore only a one way ticket to sleep. I came to the conclusion that it's actually my body position during my daytime pratice that allow me to let go and go very deep in the Void, but since I'm lying in my bed at night I kind of loose this natural anchor. Maybe it's just a belief ? I have tried to look for informations on the forum but couldn't find anything. I'm sure it's doable but I can't find a solution to this problem.

2) After all this I still don't understand Sleep Paralysis. Everywhere I look, I see horror stories about monsters, demons and black shadows that attack you when your body is paralyzed. Everytime I access the Void my body is gone yes but it's just in a sort of "sleep mode" and I have access to it at anytime I want. Granted this is all new to me, I went to the Void multiple time and I have never suffered from paralysis or strong hallucinations that scared you to death. I'm just letting go, end up in the detached state and after a certain time boom i'm in the void, that's all really. At what point in the process does people usualy suffer from this ? How come so many people are affected by this phenomenon ? Is this related to a simple belief or a biological problem ?

I have many questions but I will stop here, it's getting late. I'm sorry if this is a bit confusing but it's actually much harder than I thought to describe a process that basically happen in my head and in a foreign language !
But the feeling of stepping into it's own mind and trying to optimize the process is something that I enjoy a lot so it's worth it  

[Lumaza]

Hello again !

I wanted to give you guys an update on my pratice of accessing non-physical realities. It took me months but I am finally able to understand what was wrong with my pratice and since october I can now do it more or less at will  

Congratulations MagicOwl. I see that your long Journey is now paying off. We can talk here about this subject until we are blue in the face, but nothing beats personal experience, explorations and also investigation. . You find out what works and what doesn't, at least that is for you personally.

I'm so happy to finally have found a way to do it but since this is all very recent I still have questions regarding the process :

1) Even though I'm able to access the Void or OBE when I want, there are conditions. I can only doing it during daytime in a seated or half lying position ! As soon as I try to do it at night when I'm going to bed, I end up falling asleep for real this time. The process start exactly the same way as during the day except that this time if I let go there is no "yo-yo effect" (maybe 2-3 if I'm lucky) and therefore only a one way ticket to sleep. I came to the conclusion that it's actually my body position during my daytime pratice that allow me to let go and go very deep in the Void, but since I'm lying in my bed at night I kind of loose this natural anchor. Maybe it's just a belief ? I have tried to look for informations on the forum but couldn't find anything. I'm sure it's doable but I can't find a solution to this problem.

Remember, all your life you have trained yourself that "bed" is for sleep! Because of that, lying down in your bed, automatically kicks the sleep process into gear. You can change that. But take it from experience, "be careful what you wish for". I have totally messed up my automatic sleep process, Too many nights, just lying down in bed automatically kicks in the "noticing" process, which leads to sleepless nights. This also taught me what is known as Tibetan Dream yoga, whereas you don't really fall asleep. You just stay aware all the way into the Dream cycles and beyond. Even if it's not what you intend at the moment.

2) After all this I still don't understand Sleep Paralysis. Everywhere I look, I see horror stories about monsters, demons and black shadows that attack you when your body is paralyzed. Everytime I access the Void my body is gone yes but it's just in a sort of "sleep mode" and I have access to it at anytime I want. Granted this is all new to me, I went to the Void multiple time and I have never suffered from paralysis or strong hallucinations that scared you to death. I'm just letting go, end up in the detached state and after a certain time boom i'm in the void, that's all really. At what point in the process does people usualy suffer from this ? How come so many people are affected by this phenomenon ? Is this related to a simple belief or a biological problem ?

Not everyone experiences sleep paralysis and if they did experience it once or twice, it doesn't occur every time. Many fear tests do come as a result of spontaneous sleep paralysis though.

I have many questions but I will stop here, it's getting late. I'm sorry if this is a bit confusing but it's actually much harder than I thought to describe a process that basically happen in my head and in a foreign language !
But the feeling of stepping into it's own mind and trying to optimize the process is something that I enjoy a lot so it's worth it  

Keep the questions coming. We will answer them to the best of our ability.

Tom Campbell said in the past that the "non physical" is just a simple shift in consciousness away. We are the ones that get in it's way and make it way more difficult then it need be!

All our lives we have been taught that all we are is physical beings. Once you change your mindset on that, you will also change your reality! But it is only you and you alone that can change that mindset. That all comes as a result of your own personal explorations. 

[MagikOwl]

Hi Lumaza ! Thank you for your reply and for your insight !

Regarding the night pratice, I'm very interested to know how you were able to change the habit of falling asleep. I'm assuming it's just via pratice/trial and error but maybe there is something more to it ? I am fascinated by the fact that someone is able to achieve a complete night while being conscious. I'm a bit confused however, if you are still aware during all the sleep cycles this means that your body is resting like a regular night and and you should feel fresh at the end of the night ? Or do you feel really tired because your mind has been active all night ? Also do you have a good website/book that you recommend about Tibetan Dream Yoga?

I also would like your advice on a small problem regarding the time it take to access the void. For me the entire process from seating on the couch to entering the void take between 60 to 90 minutes. Because I completely lose sense of time when I am in the detached mode it really feel like I'm doing this for only 30mn but in reality more than one hour has passed.  This is a problem because I cannot always afford 90mn of free time everyday and therefore I can only do it sometimes during the week. So I have decided to see if I could accelerate the process by being a little bit more active during the « detachement State » when the yo-yo effect start. Since the Images/scenario are very vivid, I have tried many times to look at the border of an image or looking for a small detail in the scenario that could allow me to step into it but the images disappear as soon as I try to do something with it. It really feel like I'm disturbing a natural process. As soon as I stop trying to do something, the process resume and the images reappear. I am not entirely sure if there is something that has to be done. Maybe you just have to do it over and over until one day you can do it 20mn ? I know you, Szaxx and many others are able to do it but way quicker than me so i think it's a good idea to ask you directly.

Quick last question : I am not able to stay too long in the non-physical yet, but still long enough to have quick fun experiences. I plan to tackle this problem after having a very good understanding of how the switch from physical to non-physical works. However if I end up in a lucid dream or an OBE type situation while practicing, I try to call on "guides" to see if I can interact with them and also ask more personal questions to them regarding my pratice or my life. Everytime I have called for a guide nothing happened. I have heard that if you don't really need them, they never shows up. Maybe it's true and I don't really need anything or I already have the answer from my question. I am still trying from time to time to call for guides anyway. Only recently has I was calling for a guide to answer a question, a very cute baby dog appear next to me ! "So you are my guide ? How do I know this not just a dream figure ?" The dog is just happy and bark at me. It now appear eveytime I call for a guide, it's fine I love dogs but......I don't know how to communicate it's literally a baby dog barking and being happy   It's the cutest dog I have ever seen so at least it's always a pleasant moment but what am I suppose to do ?

[Nameless]

Dogs and especially puppies always reflect and live in the moment. They don't question what is going on. Happy little fellow is showing you the way.

[Bob_the_floater]

Since the Images/scenario are very vivid, I have tried many times to look at the border of an image or looking for a small detail in the scenario that could allow me to step into it but the images disappear as soon as I try to do something with it. It really feel like I'm disturbing a natural process. As soon as I stop trying to do something, the process resume and the images reappear.

I'm just beginning to get better at this part, but I'll take a stab at this one.

See with your mind/mind's eye and not your physical eyes. I like to think of it as like daydreaming or visualizing, focus on the scenario mentally not physically. For me it's a sensation of having my awareness in the center or on top of my head, as soon as it moves to the front(to the eyes) the scenario/image starts to disappear. Hope it makes some kind of sense to you 

[MagikOwl]

Dogs and especially puppies always reflect and live in the moment. They don't question what is going on. Happy little fellow is showing you the way.

Thank you Nameless, next time I will try to not ask anything and see what the baby dog want to do

I'm just beginning to get better at this part, but I'll take a stab at this one.

See with your mind/mind's eye and not your physical eyes. I like to think of it as like daydreaming or visualizing, focus on the scenario mentally not physically. For me it's a sensation of having my awareness in the center or on top of my head, as soon as it moves to the front(to the eyes) the scenario/image starts to disappear. Hope it makes some kind of sense to you 

I totally can relate to the seeing with your mind instead of your eyes. Everytime I calm my mind enough, my eyes go into a sort of "sleep position" (slighty down) and a few minutes after I'm seeing the images. I dont' really feel like my awareness is in the center or top of my head but I guess this is just the way I interpret things. So my problem while in detached state it's that my eyes activate as soon as I try to do something. If I just let the process do it's thing and try to observe what I can, at some point I end up in the Void. I have a very strong feeling that I can do something in the detached state and instead of waiting just step into one of the very vivid imagery, reducing at the same time the time require to access the non-physical. The question is : what ? I'm rereading all the thread that I used to read back in days. It's crazy how, now that I have experienced how to do it, I can catch important stuff that I was completely missing before. Let me know if you succeed aswell like this I can compare and maybe adapt my process 

[Bob_the_floater]

my eyes go into a sort of "sleep position" (slighty down) and a few minutes after I'm seeing the images.

Same here, but my eyes goes up, usually followed by a throbbing/pulsing sensation between the eyes at the nasal bridge.

So my problem while in detached state it's that my eyes activate as soon as I try to do something.

Yes, the same is occurring for me. I'm slowly getting better at suppressing it, I'm guessing it's a matter of practice, practice, practice.

Let me know if you succeed aswell like this I can compare and maybe adapt my process 

Will do  . Right now I'm at the point where I'm "clicking out" a short while after the images start to appear, and not being able to stay conscious.

[Lumaza]

Hi Lumaza ! Thank you for your reply and for your insight !

Your welcome. I shall attempt to answer your questions here.

Regarding the night pratice, I'm very interested to know how you were able to change the habit of falling asleep. I'm assuming it's just via pratice/trial and error but maybe there is something more to it ? I am fascinated by the fact that someone is able to achieve a complete night while being conscious. I'm a bit confused however, if you are still aware during all the sleep cycles this means that your body is resting like a regular night and and you should feel fresh at the end of the night ? Or do you feel really tired because your mind has been active all night ? Also do you have a good website/book that you recommend about Tibetan Dream Yoga?

At first I found that the more I practiced, the more "automatic" noticing seemed to get. I would just close my eyes and automatically noticing would kick in, This was whether I wanted/consciously intended it or not. My brain felt like it was changing in some way.

It came to whole new level though when I received a new light/sound machine for Christmas. I already had been experimenting for a few years with another one that i enjoyed. This new machine seemed to have some kind of glitch in it that led to a very powerful light pulse that left me with what is known as Trigeminal Neuralgia. The nerve in my left eye would go nuts with spasms every time I closed my eyes. So, I needed to learn to adapt with that. I had to hold onto to the left side of my face, near my eye, as I attempted to fall asleep. It was extremely uncomfortable. It would take hours some nights to finally lose consciousness. But while doing this, I seemed to stay consciously aware right into the Dream cycle. After while it was "cycles". For awhile there I couldn't turn it off. But I learned so much from it. Tibetan Dream Yoga is when you stay awake through your Dream cycles. You can do a google search on that. Robert Moss is a great guy to help your further understanding. I have posted videos by him here on the Pulse in the past.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_dreams/dreaming_is_waking_up-t39742.0.html

I still experience it today. At first when it happened, I would be mentally taxed the next day. After while, I got used to it. I did see that there is a very good reason we don't all do this now though. It's hard to live "two" or should I say many separate lives. It opened my eyes up to "parallel realities" as well.

I also would like your advice on a small problem regarding the time it take to access the void. For me the entire process from seating on the couch to entering the void take between 60 to 90 minutes. Because I completely lose sense of time when I am in the detached mode it really feel like I'm doing this for only 30mn but in reality more than one hour has passed.  This is a problem because I cannot always afford 90mn of free time everyday and therefore I can only do it sometimes during the week. So I have decided to see if I could accelerate the process by being a little bit more active during the « detachement State » when the yo-yo effect start. Since the Images/scenario are very vivid, I have tried many times to look at the border of an image or looking for a small detail in the scenario that could allow me to step into it but the images disappear as soon as I try to do something with it. It really feel like I'm disturbing a natural process. As soon as I stop trying to do something, the process resume and the images reappear. I am not entirely sure if there is something that has to be done. Maybe you just have to do it over and over until one day you can do it 20mn ? I know you, Szaxx and many others are able to do it but way quicker than me so i think it's a good idea to ask you directly.

I know exactly what you are talking about. Actually one of the famous Authors or Astral projection named "Jurgen Ziewe" talked about  this very thing too. It would take him a good hour to hour and half to get into the NP.
https://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Astral_Travel_and_life_after_death.html

When I started here, it did with me as well. That's why I began experimenting with ways to keep my mind busy, while the shift occurred. That came via my Doorway process, Phantom Wiggling, all kinds of things. I found it so boring to just stare at the darkness for a good hour. Many people say their "monkey mind" keeps them from meditating. i found a way to keep that monkey mind occupied. Through my years of experimenting I found that the shift was much closer than I had first thought it was. I didn't need a hour any more. Now the shift comes quite quickly.

That Phantom Wiggling was great practice. I usually used it in the daytimes though. It helped me further develop my 6 pt directional focus technique. I wrote more about that under my previous name "Lionheart" in this thread here.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_exactly_do_you_perform_the_phantom_wiggle_method-t44583.0.html


Why I am always preaching about is importance of practicing often is because you begin to notice exactly where you are in the process. You get used to feeling of being in that state. There are some pretty tell tale signs.

This will likely be the best advise I can give you "STOP TRYING TO CONTROL EVERYTHING". We Humans seem to have to control everything. "STOP THAT". Set the stage, prime the pump, whatever you want to call it and ALLOW what's going to happen to happen. Example: Today in my own Phase session, (which I do in my bathtub), after I was comfortable in the water and did my opening ritual, (mine be a healing Mantra for those that need it), I started one of my favorite focus targets. That being shooting hoops. After about the 3 shot, my focus stayed looking at the basketball net. While focusing on the net itself, once in a while I could see how the net moved while a ball was going through it. My focus on the net seemed to intensify and also zoom in. It zoomed in so close that now all I could see was the netting itself. I then mentally moved myself forward and began moving through this very odd world of strings. The strings soon became grids. The scene had taken on it's own life and I was there for the ride. About an hour later, my focus went back to my physical body and I ended the session. The only part I intended to see was the opening action of shooting a ball at the hoop. I allowed what was going to happen to happen and let my curiosity drive the scenario as far it wanted to go.

Quick last question : I am not able to stay too long in the non-physical yet, but still long enough to have quick fun experiences. I plan to tackle this problem after having a very good understanding of how the switch from physical to non-physical works. However if I end up in a lucid dream or an OBE type situation while practicing, I try to call on "guides" to see if I can interact with them and also ask more personal questions to them regarding my pratice or my life. Everytime I have called for a guide nothing happened. I have heard that if you don't really need them, they never shows up. Maybe it's true and I don't really need anything or I already have the answer from my question. I am still trying from time to time to call for guides anyway. Only recently has I was calling for a guide to answer a question, a very cute baby dog appear next to me ! "So you are my guide ? How do I know this not just a dream figure ?" The dog is just happy and bark at me. It now appear eveytime I call for a guide, it's fine I love dogs but......I don't know how to communicate it's literally a baby dog barking and being happy   It's the cutest dog I have ever seen so at least it's always a pleasant moment but what am I suppose to do ?

Guides appear when you need them. They can come in all shapes and forms. Right now you are working on getting your bearings there. Don't rush things. What does a happy Dog mean to you? The NP speaks in symbolism. I haven't found a simple yes or no answer anywhere there. Sometimes you have to put what you see together, like you are building some kind of puzzle.

You are doing great my friend. Just learn to be patient. Your persistent practicing will pay off in the end!  

[Lumaza]

Dogs and especially puppies always reflect and live in the moment. They don't question what is going on. Happy little fellow is showing you the way.

Yes, always playful He is showing that you are well on your way to achieving your goals! 

[Lumaza]

I'm just beginning to get better at this part, but I'll take a stab at this one.

See with your mind/mind's eye and not your physical eyes. I like to think of it as like daydreaming or visualizing, focus on the scenario mentally not physically. For me it's a sensation of having my awareness in the center or on top of my head, as soon as it moves to the front(to the eyes) the scenario/image starts to disappear. Hope it makes some kind of sense to you  

You are advancing in spades Bob!  

Upon closing your eyes you are met with a simple flat darkness. It is right there in front of you. The first images you get seem to be on a flat screen as well. The visuals and even the darkness begin to take on more depth until finally you a in HD. People talk about joining the scenario. When the scene/darkness turns to HD, there is nothing to join. You are already there. Set a intent and be off. My intent is to be shown what I need to see and taught what I need to learn. Then I trust and allow the process to commence.

I find that Daydreaming and "remembering" are things that do appear in the "upper screen" known as the Mind's eye. There is a lower screen, "physical eye viewing" and a upper screen, "Mind's eye" view. You can feel when your eyes are still chasing a visual. When your Mind's eye is engaged, you don't feel any movement at all.

Bob, I have replied often recently about something that has been occurring with me that I call "the exploding head syndrome". It occurs just as you say, but it doesn't seem like you have had it apex yet. I will feel my focus leaving the physical eye viewing and moving upwards. The next thing I know there is a very powerful, but short lived boost of energy. At the time it is overwhelming. I feared it at first, but then decided one time to allow it and see it through. As soon as I did, I found myself deep in a 3d setting. I then engaged motion and was off.

I use motion often in my Phase sessions. I find it really takes you deeper. it can be a quite a ride and very intense as well. You can use a simple driving simulation or a "Pace car" like scenario, where you are just following it from a short distance away. Just simply mentally intend to move forward into the darkness. When I do that, I normally experience a "Cave" kind of setting. As I am moving forward, I am aware of things that seem to be to the left, right, in front and behind me. Soon I get to the end of the cave, tunnel, hallway, etc. and see something new.

[Lumaza]

So my problem while in detached state it's that my eyes activate as soon as I try to do something. If I just let the process do it's thing and try to observe what I can, at some point I end up in the Void.

That will happen in the beginning. But as with everything else in this practice it will get better with time.

You will feel like your eyes have been "glazed over". It's really hard to describe, but you will know when it occurs. When that happens, you are just "being".

The question is : what ? I'm rereading all the thread that I used to read back in days. It's crazy how, now that I have experienced how to do it, I can catch important stuff that I was completely missing before. Let me know if you succeed aswell like this I can compare and maybe adapt my process  

I find rehashing to be very beneficial. Sometimes when I find myself blocked, I go back to my books of years ago and begin at square one again. That and I will reread the fantastic Stickies that were created here by all of the many experienced travelers that we had here in the past. I have read Frank Kepple's entire posting history here about 15 times now.

[Lumaza]

 I just completed my daily Phase soak session and was kind of re-taught the importance of a few things I have talked about here in the past, but feel seems to get overlooked.

I was working on a new copper wire sculpture design, this one being a Faerie design, which is new to me. I began as usual with my Healing Modality/Mantra. I then began noticing and almost instantly i felt like I was being drawn into the darkness there. The sensation of moving forward soon accompanied it. I then began to feel the "loosening" of my focus on my physical self. (Just a note here. Until you have died, you never really loose 100% focus on your physical self. It is always "priority one").

I felt like I was in a tunnel as I moved forward. I also sensed the feeling of the exploding head thing quickly approaching. I allowed it to commence and soon felt just "there". I was in the 3D darkness and in a great NP focus, so I decided to work on my new sculpture design. After a few moments of mentally working on the design, my session got hi-jacked to deeper focus and that was some kind of discussion on this very thread here.

I enjoy working with and helping the two of you out and due to the hi-jacking of today's session, I see that someone, your Higher Self or the Others, have plans for you as well.

I talk often here about my own little ritual. Today in the mental discussion the importance of this was shown to me once more. Tom Campbell, Xanth and many others here talk about you needing to learn to project/meditate from a number of different locations and circumstances. But first we need to learn to walk before we can run. Rituals are a very important part of sustained success. No, we aren't sacrificing small animals or drinking blood, unless of course that is your thing, lol!   The rituals I talk about are more like, where you are attempting, location, etc. Is it the same chair? Are you always lying down? Is it in the same room? Now, what do you do when you close your eyes? What's your mental preparations?

With me, going to the bathroom and drawing a bath would be my first ritual. Getting into the water, closing my eyes, is my next one. Then my healing modality, which is done by first creating a temple of white light. Spirit around me and inviting those that need it into it. I then do the mental mantra RA, MA, DA, SA, SA, SAI, SOH, HUNG. I have mental imagery that accompanies each syllable. I repeat that 3 times, then I am primed. I now just notice the darkness before my eyes until the "show" begins.

What has all that ritual accomplished? Because of it, Phasing just becomes natural. It is an accepted part of my life. Before I even get into the water, unseen mental prep has already kicked in. Now the Phasing part is given.

After while, ritual isn't necessary. I still use it because it works for me. i find this kind of mental conditioning to be very beneficial in this practice here. Phasing kind of become a "expectation". You have mentally set the stage and now you are awaiting what comes next. When something does come, I don't question it then and there. I just passively observe it and experience what I needed to at that point in time. I can always question it later.

A Astral Log or Dream Journal will do wonders for you beginning. OmCasey here created one based on 365 nights of Dreaming and her experiences in it. She created a thread recently with a PDF to her entire year of projecting. I have about 5 books full of the first years of experiencing. Nowadays though, I only journal the real unique experiences. The other experiences I have seem to involve more personal things and once I am get the lesson or the message, it sticks with me, becomes a part of me and doesn't really need to be journaled anymore. In the beginning though a Journal/Log is a great tool to learn to progress. Log everything. Especially every little sensation you experience along the way. This is the way to see how much you are progressing.

My layout went like this:

                                                                         Date                                          
                                                                                                                                                     Apparatus/Accessories/Tools
                                                                                                                                                   Example: Sleep Mask, Binaural beats/Iso Tones

     Mental Prep: Example: Mantra, counting, visualizing


 Experience: What happened? What did you see, where did you go, etc?

Sensations: Tactile. How did it feel? What body sensations did you experience? Vibrations, sounds, motion, etc. Be aware of everything. I learned to slow the process down so much that i could be aware of everything that was occurring. For those of you that wish this to become your "new normal", you will find that that awareness spills over your physical life here as well. You are so aware, you just seem to "know" things. Your are so in tune with your senses that not much will go unnoticed around you.

Notes: This section would be for any further things of note that you wished to point out here.

Look back at your Journal often. As I said above, rehashing is a great thing to do, even for all of the already experienced people in this field of adventure.

[MagikOwl]

Hi lumaza, thanks for all the links it's very useful !

It came to whole new level though when I received a new light/sound machine for Christmas. I already had been experimenting for a few years with another one that i enjoyed. This new machine seemed to have some kind of glitch in it that led to a very powerful light pulse that left me with what is known as Trigeminal Neuralgia. The nerve in my left eye would go nuts with spasms every time I closed my eyes. So, I needed to learn to adapt with that. I had to hold onto to the left side of my face, near my eye, as I attempted to fall asleep. It was extremely uncomfortable. It would take hours some nights to finally lose consciousness. But while doing this, I seemed to stay consciously aware right into the Dream cycle. After while it was "cycles". For awhile there I couldn't turn it off. But I learned so much from it. Tibetan Dream Yoga is when you stay awake through your Dream cycles. You can do a google search on that. Robert Moss is a great guy to help your further understanding. I have posted videos by him here on the Pulse in the past.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_dreams/dreaming_is_waking_up-t39742.0.html

I'm so sorry for what happened to you   I have never tried (and now never will) any machines or supplements to help induce my experiences. To me it's a natural phenomena that need to be more understood that's it. The idea of a machine that slighty wake you up seems like a good idea....but look what it did to you ! I hope they gave you your money back !

When I started here, it did with me as well. That's why I began experimenting with ways to keep my mind busy, while the shift occurred. That came via my Doorway process, Phantom Wiggling, all kinds of things. I found it so boring to just stare at the darkness for a good hour. Many people say their "monkey mind" keeps them from meditating. i found a way to keep that monkey mind occupied. Through my years of experimenting I found that the shift was much closer than I had first thought it was. I didn't need a hour any more. Now the shift comes quite quickly.

This actually gave me a very good idea ! Once in the detached state, I have tried to visualized a story or a place while waiting for the yo-yo effect to start carying me into a more profond state. It worked ! At first, I decided that my story will start inside of a spaceship. I fly the spaceship to a planet. Now I am in front of a house (I can feel the yo-yo effect start in the background of my mind while I'm busy with my story). I walk in front of the house, the story change a little bit without my consent. Suddenly I stop, the view switch from 3rd person to 1st person without me doing anything. My eyes are focusing on the stairs of the house and it's getting more and more vivid. I'm getting excited and go back in the physical, but very happy about my finding  

About your last post, I was reading it 1h before going to bed. Turns out that last night I had the most long and interesting lucid dream in a while. Since I have started to practice at night, even though I fail, my dream recall has improved drastically ! I do not need journal to remember my dream anymore, but like you, I'm recording the one that are very interesting. Last night was one of them, I will not describe all the things that happenned because some of them are very personal and other maybe not appropriate on a public forum. But to make things short, I had mutliple lucid dream without returning to the physicial. Everytime my dream was fading I ended up in the void fully conscious. That's something that never happened before and i think it's due to the fact that this Void state is now a reality for me !

I had something like 4 or 5 lucid dream in row and each time the Void state acted like an intermission between dreams. Best part is that I could interact with the Void ! I just needed to ask a question and it showed me the answer in the form of a image or a scenario. It really feel like a search engine, you ask and it show. To give an example, I ask the void for a symbol that represents who I was. This might seems like a strange question but I was looking for a symbol that I could engrave on my familly bracelet (a traditional thing in my familly). So the Void showed me a sort of grid carved in the stone. The grid was 4x4 I think, inside of each square I could see some sort of hieroglyph. The Void immediatly highlighted in red 5 symbols that was relevant. I knew that I won't be able to remember all of them so I decided to remember the one at the top of row. I'm googling since this morning to find the symbol but can't find it right know. It was a person on it's knee with arms raised horizontaly and with feather. On left arm was a small human with horn, on the right arm was a geometric figure (i think a cercle). I don't tend to be obsessed over things that I saw in the non-physical but I'm just curious cause I know i've seen it somewhere !

Here is one new element that I have experienced and that might be interesting for everyone :

Even though you are fully conscious, you act differently once in the non-physical. This is something that I did not realise before because I only had « quick » experiences in the non-physical. It's difficult to describe but it feel like you are 95% conscious, sometimes you do stuff that you will never do in physical. You don't overthink an action you just « do » them or rather you « experience » situations or encounter. Only when back in the physical you realise that the state felt exactly like when you are awake but with something missing... in a sense you are more honest with your emotion/action than in the physical reality. Your belief are very similar but with small differences, for example I have discover (more been showned actually) that deep inside I still believe that something is going out of my body when I have an OBE, while in the physical I have stopped believing my soul leave my body long time ago. You are going inside the mind not outside ! Well I guess i really need to convince myself then..

To this day, I don't think I had such a productive access to the non-physical. The craziest thing is that when I finally came back to the physical, I was fresh like if I just had 9 hours of sleep. I checked my phone and only 2 hours have past since I went to bed !! I went back to sleep, thinking there is no way I'll forget all this in the morning, but suddenly the image of the thread appear in front of me and my view focus on the word « journal » from your post. I immediatly woke up and started writing key points on my phone about the experience. So Lumaza, I don't know if this was your Intuition or a coïncidence or maybe just me reading your post before going to sleep but your post triggered one of the most rewarding experience I had in month ! Thank you  

[Lumaza]

Hi lumaza, thanks for all the links it's very useful !

I'm so sorry for what happened to you   I have never tried (and now never will) any machines or supplements to help induce my experiences. To me it's a natural phenomena that need to be more understood that's it. The idea of a machine that slighty wake you up seems like a good idea....but look what it did to you ! I hope they gave you your money back !

The company did refund my money. So all is well. It was some kind of glitch or just a freak of nature. But like I said, there was a kind of postive outcome. i still suffer to this day from the Trigeminal Neuralgia. I have to wear glass with a FL-41 tint called "Theraspecs" day and night now. But, on the plus/positive time, it did teach me Tibetan Dream Yoga!  

This actually gave me a very good idea ! Once in the detached state, I have tried to visualized a story or a place while waiting for the yo-yo effect to start carying me into a more profond state. It worked ! At first, I decided that my story will start inside of a spaceship. I fly the spaceship to a planet. Now I am in front of a house (I can feel the yo-yo effect start in the background of my mind while I'm busy with my story). I walk in front of the house, the story change a little bit without my consent. Suddenly I stop, the view switch from 3rd person to 1st person without me doing anything. My eyes are focusing on the stairs of the house and it's getting more and more vivid. I'm getting excited and go back in the physical, but very happy about my finding  

As I said above, you are doing great. "Walkthroughs" are very beneficial in this practice. Allow them to totally consume your focus. Now, comes the balancing act and the hard part, because now you need to also keep your awareness or else you will "click  out".

About your last post, I was reading it 1h before going to bed. Turns out that last night I had the most long and interesting lucid dream in a while. Since I have started to practice at night, even though I fail, my dream recall has improved drastically ! I do not need journal to remember my dream anymore, but like you, I'm recording the one that are very interesting. Last night was one of them, I will not describe all the things that happenned because some of them are very personal and other maybe not appropriate on a public forum. But to make things short, I had mutliple lucid dream without returning to the physicial. Everytime my dream was fading I ended up in the void fully conscious. That's something that never happened before and i think it's due to the fact that this Void state is now a reality for me !

I had something like 4 or 5 lucid dream in row and each time the Void state acted like an intermission between dreams. Best part is that I could interact with the Void ! I just needed to ask a question and it showed me the answer in the form of a image or a scenario. It really feel like a search engine, you ask and it show. To give an example, I ask the void for a symbol that represents who I was. This might seems like a strange question but I was looking for a symbol that I could engrave on my familly bracelet (a traditional thing in my familly). So the Void showed me a sort of grid carved in the stone. The grid was 4x4 I think, inside of each square I could see some sort of hieroglyph. The Void immediatly highlighted in red 5 symbols that was relevant. I knew that I won't be able to remember all of them so I decided to remember the one at the top of row. I'm googling since this morning to find the symbol but can't find it right know. It was a person on it's knee with arms raised horizontaly and with feather. On left arm was a small human with horn, on the right arm was a geometric figure (i think a cercle). I don't tend to be obsessed over things that I saw in the non-physical but I'm just curious cause I know i've seen it somewhere !

Welcome to the wonderful World of conscious exploration!   Becoming consciously aware in LDs seems to be just one of the many perks of this practice!  

Here is one new element that I have experienced and that might be interesting for everyone :

Even though you are fully conscious, you act differently once in the non-physical. This is something that I did not realise before because I only had « quick » experiences in the non-physical. It's difficult to describe but it feel like you are 95% conscious, sometimes you do stuff that you will never do in physical. You don't overthink an action you just « do » them or rather you « experience » situations or encounter. Only when back in the physical you realise that the state felt exactly like when you are awake but with something missing... in a sense you are more honest with your emotion/action than in the physical reality. Your belief are very similar but with small differences, for example I have discover (more been showned actually) that deep inside I still believe that something is going out of my body when I have an OBE, while in the physical I have stopped believing my soul leave my body long time ago. You are going inside the mind not outside ! Well I guess i really need to convince myself then..

Yes, it's time to meet your non-physical personality. For some reason, it seems to be the opposite of our physical ones. Not totally opposite, but you can see difference in it. Mine likes to be a sht disturber and passes the torch to me just as the sht is hitting the fan!   Many of my Lds seem to start in 3rd person mode. Just as things are about to get nuts, the "baton" seems to be passed to me and now I am in 1st person mode handling the situation.

So Lumaza, I don't know if this was your Intuition or a coïncidence or maybe just me reading your post before going to sleep but your post triggered one of the most rewarding experience I had in month ! Thank you  

Like I said you are being helped by ____. You can fill in the blank there. Guides come in all forms and they don't necessarily have to be of the non physical way. Experiences you had led you to this Forum in the first place. So to me that says "it was meant to be"!   I don't believe in "co-incidence". I did earlier in my life. But from living my life and observing other's lives, I saw that everything good, bad or ugly had a purpose to it. That kind of thinking leads to a less stressful life!  

[MagikOwl]

Hi all,

Two questions :

First, my practice at night is improving. I am using counting to relax and noticing to keep my mind busy. I am now able to hear myself snoring while being conscious ! It's something that never happened during my daytime practice. It's so loud that it scared me a little the first time. To me this is the absolute proof that my body is asleep. However there is something I dont' fully understand when I'm in this state of mind, the feeling is different from when I'm in the Void. When I'm in the Void, my body is far in the background of my mind while still being accessible and therefore it's easy to go where I want in the non-physical. It's not the case when I'm in the mind awake body asleep state, I can still slightly sense my body and even though the blackness in front of me is kind of 3D it's not as easy to initiate the switch. I don't understand why ? My body is snoring and so my consciousness should not be limited by it ? For now, I can only stay a few minutes in this state, at some point I either lose control and fall asleep or come back to the physical and the snoring immediatly stop. My first guess is that my mind awake body asleep state is an early one and you need to stay more time in it in order to slowly enter the Void state ?

Second is about the reason I'm doing all this. At first I wasn't too interested in lucid dreaming and Out of body experience, my goal was the Source/HigherSelf, only recently I found out about all the possibilities that can offer these states (Discover aspects of ourselves, healing, reliving past memories, inspiration, and so on). I have been told about this Source/Higher State state from a member of my familly who past away. The only things I know is that this state of consciousness is beyond anything you can experience in this lifetime and once in it you have a brief view of "the big picture". That is why I have set a goal to at least try to access it during my lifetime, to understand even briefly what's this all about. I went looking into the Forum to see if I could find informations about other members who had already access this state, but did not find anything. Even on Google, everyone seems to use a different label (Samadhi, Higher Self, LCS) and I'm not always sure if we are talking about the same things.

The best descriptions of what I have been told is from Frank's Focus 4 :

So what's Focus 4 like? Well, you need to realize that F4 is nothing like F1, F2 or F3. It's unique. You phase into what feels like a huge interconnecting communications network. In a way it's like plugging your computer into the Internet. But you are plugging your mind into an infinite network of other minds. There is, of course, a LOT more to it than that. But in a nutshell that's the simplest explanation I can come up with. While it is an exciting thing to do, I have to mention that it is not for the feint of heart, or for anyone who is not totally grounded in themselves mentally.

The "problem" you might say, is you can get to feeling like you have "lost your own mind".
Thing is, we get so used to having only ourselves in mind. And communicating in this area is fully mind-to-mind. So what you do is merge your mind with another mind or minds (now multiple merging is really freaky, lol) and you communicate via thoughts, imagery, feelings, and so forth, in ways that are appropriate for the subject matter you are communicating about.
In a sense, though, it feels like someone is "invading" your mind, and the more egotistical parts of you may battle against it. With me it took about a hundred attempts before I became comfortable with the process.

It is an area of purely subjective reality. So nothing actually exists as an objective observable form. To feel your whole sense of 'body' totally disintegrate is not something you forget in a hurry. This is why I do not recommend beginners attempt Phasing to focus 4. There are no 'dangers' don't get me wrong. But the effects are mind blowing and I do not say this lightly. Seeing my whole physical life as a *concept* changed my outlook on life significantly overnight. The notion of *concepts* is one that you will have to fully grasp in order to make headway in F4. In F4, everything is to do with subjective concepts and F4 is the source of all concepts that eventually manifest in objective reality. You can decide to merge with the underlying subjective energy that forms the concept of anything you care to think of and experience being that thing, or more correctly, the concept of that thing. You can experience being the concept of a flower, a rock, a cloud, an ant, or a human being. For the really adventurous, you can also experience more abstract concepts, like being a sound (this is fun!), or a day of the week - that's right, you can experience the concept of 'Tuesday'! There is no end of concepts that you can engage with - I told you it was freaky!

It is an area of simultaneous time, as opposed to linear time that we experience within this physical reality. So everything that is about to happen, has happened and is happening, is all happening at once within the same moment (within infinity everything happens an infinite number of times). This means of course that there is no death, no beginning or ending: everything just IS. However at the same time, there is ever-expanding consciousness. Hey, it's hard to get your head around, but who said infinite reality and the prospect of ever expanding consciousness would be easy! It's all part of the fun!

There are many, many people resident within Focus 4. Pure energy essences you might call them, that you can tap into. These people are quite knowledgeable and do come across as kind of "god-like" you could say. But that's only because they are subjective energy essences that exist primarily as a point of consciousness, so to speak. When we each (for want of a better word) "complete" our current movement through consciousness, or as Monroe was saying "graduate", we too will reside within Focus 4 solely as an energy essence, or a point of consciousness. This is simply part and parcel of adopting Focus 4 as your Primary Focus, instead of Focus 1 or Focus 3. But I guess people in the past have just misunderstood what's what.

If I had come across Focus 4 before Freda and Harath (my guides) had given me a detailed briefing of what to expect, then even I could well have mistaken my interactions as some kind of communication with divine being(s). Because that's precisely the way they come across. They radiate a kind of energy that tends to turn you to emotional jelly. But they are not "gods" as such. The energy they radiate is merely a product of adopting Focus 4 as your primary focus. If any of us chose to do the same, we would radiate the same energetic signature. Well, that is what I am told. I won't actually know until I try it myself, of course.

So here are my questions regarding this state :

- The person who first told me about this said there was a sort of fear test before entering this state. Your Ego (or the person you think you are) must momentarily die/disappear for the duration of the experience and so you must be brave enough to go forward while "feeling" like you are going too far into yourself, without knowing if you are actually dying or not. Have you heard about this kind of fear test before ? Do you think it could just be a belief or simply the person's fear of death manifesting ? I could not find anything online about this.

- Frank talked about the intensity of the experience, he adviced to at least have a good understanding of his F2 and F3 state before attempting to access this state (that is my plan at the moment). Even Tom Campbell talked about the experience being something really beautiful and that he only allow himself to do it 2-3 times a year to really savor it. It's clear to me that this is something very intense and rewarding but I have heard of some "secondary effect" that can occur for a week or two after having that kind of experience, have you heard of anything about it ? The only thing I could find is people having temporary "secondary effect" after Kundalini... I don't know if this is an other label that people use to describe the experience.

I am asking about all this because last time, in the Void, I had a feeling that I just needed to ask it to show me this Source/F4 state and it would had done it. But as you can tell, I think it's too early at the moment, I still have beliefs and fears about this (especially of death). So in order to start reducing my beliefs and my fears, I wanted to know if you could direct me to someone that already went deep into this state ?

[Lumaza]

 I read this a few days ago, but didn't have the time to answer your questions. I shall answer them according to what i personally experience myself.

First, my practice at night is improving. I am using counting to relax and noticing to keep my mind busy. I am now able to hear myself snoring while being conscious ! It's something that never happened during my daytime practice. It's so loud that it scared me a little the first time. To me this is the absolute proof that my body is asleep. However there is something I dont' fully understand when I'm in this state of mind, the feeling is different from when I'm in the Void. When I'm in the Void, my body is far in the background of my mind while still being accessible and therefore it's easy to go where I want in the non-physical. It's not the case when I'm in the mind awake body asleep state, I can still slightly sense my body and even though the blackness in front of me is kind of 3D it's not as easy to initiate the switch. I don't understand why ? My body is snoring and so my consciousness should not be limited by it ? For now, I can only stay a few minutes in this state, at some point I either lose control and fall asleep or come back to the physical and the snoring immediatly stop. My first guess is that my mind awake body asleep state is an early one and you need to stay more time in it in order to slowly enter the Void state ?

You say that there is a difference from a mind awake/body asleep compared to a void experience. What is your technique to get a "void" experience? Is it via Sleep Paralysis or Dreaming? I'm kind of confused by your statement.

You also say "it's hard to initiate the switch". You are still showing that it is "you" that wants to control this entire experience. That's the opposite of "passively observing. All you need to do is "set the stage/prime the pump", whatever you wish to call it. Once you do, move out of the way and "allow" the shift to occur. At this point there is nothing to "initiate". That is, as long as you have already set your intent beforehand.

Now I have noticed that there is indeed a huge difference between having a OBE via a focus on mind awake/body asleep, having a experience via Phasing and lastly gaining awareness in LD.

Via a mind awake/body asleep focus you are still focused on the physical body, hence the way you know you are "snoring", etc. Because of that, you are going to experience all kinds of "exit symptoms". The vibrations, the sounds, basically the whole nine yards.

During Phasing, you are no longer focus on your physical body. To tell you the truth the first mental thought I have when Phasing is "By my act of will I release my focus over my physical body". Then I begin to prime the pump. I use directional focus and motion to attain that.

Now to a LD. well, you definitely aren't focused on your physical body. The name of the game here is to gain awareness and you do that by "grounding yourself" to the scenario at hand. Even during a early morning wake induced experience, you won't likely feel the same as mind awake body asleep. Your body is already in that zone. You are just coming out of REM itself. So, your body is still semi "paralyzed" in a way.

This is the one problem I have always had with this Forum. We like to lump everything together (no titles) in one nice little box. Sure they all lead to a NP experience. But, and this is a big "but", they all have their own "mode of transportation", let's say. Those modes have their own pros and cons and also their own challenges.

So here are my questions regarding this state :

- The person who first told me about this said there was a sort of fear test before entering this state. Your Ego (or the person you think you are) must momentarily die/disappear for the duration of the experience and so you must be brave enough to go forward while "feeling" like you are going too far into yourself, without knowing if you are actually dying or not. Have you heard about this kind of fear test before ? Do you think it could just be a belief or simply the person's fear of death manifesting ? I could not find anything online about this.

I and many others here have experienced some pretty "fight or flight" fear tests. One of the first things that was taught to me via the NP was to completely "disassociate" myself from my physical body. As soon as I learned that, I stopped having "RTZ" (real time zone) experiences. I travelled as a simple "point of consciousness". As far as the "ego" is concerned, you will find the NP will help you "tame" that pretty quick. For some reason, "lust" seems to be it's first target.

- Frank talked about the intensity of the experience, he adviced to at least have a good understanding of his F2 and F3 state before attempting to access this state (that is my plan at the moment). Even Tom Campbell talked about the experience being something really beautiful and that he only allow himself to do it 2-3 times a year to really savor it. It's clear to me that this is something very intense and rewarding but I have heard of some "secondary effect" that can occur for a week or two after having that kind of experience, have you heard of anything about it ? The only thing I could find is people having temporary "secondary effect" after Kundalini... I don't know if this is an other label that people use to describe the experience.

I am asking about all this because last time, in the Void, I had a feeling that I just needed to ask it to show me this Source/F4 state and it would had done it. But as you can tell, I think it's too early at the moment, I still have beliefs and fears about this (especially of death). So in order to start reducing my beliefs and my fears, I wanted to know if you could direct me to someone that already went deep into this state ?

Believe it or not, the "Void" has many layers. It also seems to constantly change. I have been very deep in a NP experience when I found myself, very briefly" in a void of completely white light. This place was all about emotion as well. It was immense Love. I have also been to a void of "grids". At first the grids took on the appearance of the "lie" that you would see in the old Tiger Wood's golf game. It was faint and kept building in front of me. Soon the lie turned into waves. Not waves like on water. These waves seemed to waves of consciousness. I think I could have merged with them. But at the time I was in "passive observing" mode. I like to get my toe wet before I jump in. I only came across the area of solid white light a few times. The "grid/wave" void, I have been to more often.

I would say that that would be my definition of a F4 experience. They are both extremely intense and will cause a "overload" to your senses. It is very difficult to stay there. Normally a "click out" will ensue there. That's how powerful it is.

I hoped this helped you!   Good luck!  

[Szaxx]

Hi All.
Here is part of a reply from a recent PM on attaining the knowledge of being in the correct frame of mind. Previously posted I used wallpaper as an example. We know it's there but it gets ignored.
Try to be the character in the test imagining everything  as your ONLY form of existence.

A test.
Imagine you are in the cockpit of a fighter jet, feel the tightness of the pressure suit, hear that screaming noise of the jets afterburner, the weight of the helmet and see the visors head-up display targetting the warhead you've been dispatched to intercept. The massive gravity shifts on your body and the pressure suits reaction to this.
Your split second change from zero G to 4 G and the suits crushing sensation on your legs and lower body. Your head weight increasing and decreasing with every move you make. You mind is totally fixed on the target and failure isn't an option. You're seeing the warhead on the target screen in the heads-up display and it's nearing the centre, setting up the perfect position for the green go reticule to appear, you see it and deploy the interceptor missile. You pull up fast and feel 7 G for a second, engines screaming at full thrust, you're crushed by the suit, you squeeze every muscle you have to combat the KO from the G lock. A bright flash and mission successful. Your headset voice over requests a return to the carrier...
Test over.

Now ask yourself, during this created scenario were you living the experience or were you watching the words, aware the screen displaying them is an electronic wonder...
If you lived this experience, you can easily create your own. If it didn't create a visual scene then hard work is required. The pictures created from the text above are nothing to do with the eyes, they are from your imaginitive perception and this can bring forth a recollection the exact same as if you have ever flown a fighter in that situation.
I made it up in a split second and this abilty helps when in creative mode. The NP will set this up based on your thoughts but you'll need to stay with it and you'll project within the time you took to read that visual clip above.

This IS what your mind needs to concentrate on. Forget the eyes or am I doing it  correctly. These thought are destructive and a good stopper no matter how deep you sre in the process.
The blackness, especially the 3D feeling is where you initiate a scene like the above fighter pilot test. Do this snd you'll be out there in seconds. So many get so close and don't initiate a scene. They wait and know they are waiting for the NP to manifest something. This is already happening, right in your face. YOU are waiting and the NP IS manifesting this 'waiting' on your behalf.
You know through training when the body is so far out of the mind when the blackness starts its mini dreams etc. Your turn to creatively initiate a scene is here, at this point. Get creative and you can be anywhere within your imagination.
The above visual creation had no ties to anything or anyone. It was an instant thought, I was attempting to show that the events contained within the words lead you to an environment outside of the physical. You are awake reading this, you are fully aware in the primary state of this physical world. You are using materials that have real physical properties.
Though these powerfully grounded to this physical realm items, you still detached and became that fighter pilot, a few seconds ago you were being crushed by a pressure suit. You felt how tight it was over your lower body. Imagination and the power to reconstruct a scene from words is something we all can do. That ' yes destroyed the warhead' you felt from reading is the interaction that the NP provides. I never wrote a single word on that feeling but I'm sure you felt it.
Have a think on this and you'll answer a massive bunch of questions in no time at all.

Yeah, I'm back...

[Lumaza]

Yeah, I'm back...

Welcome back my friend! Even though you were missed here on the Forum, the knowledge that you shared here in the past lives on!  

So many great points you made above in that reply. As you already know, I love the use of "motion based" focus targets and use them almost every time I Phase. Your "walkthrough" above is so great because it leads to "Etheric body" sensations, the use of imagination, which comes from the "mind's eye", not the physical ones and lastly the use of speed, so you really feel there in the moment. Another thing that is great about your walkthrough above is that you are using a visual "HUD'"/dashboard display. Because of that, you will know it's your physical eyes or your Mind's eye that are "chasing" the scene.

 Some people would call a walkthrough "your imagination running away from you" and that's a good thing. Imagination, memories, etc. are "Mind eye" related.

I have been experimenting with the use of a frontwards/backwards kind of focus. I begin with a simple target like a flame or orb that is directly in front of me. I then draw it to me or I guess I might be moving towards it (it is hard to tell). Next I feel as it travels right through me and out the back side. I then watch as it slowly fades, but instead of fading away, it now moves back towards me again until once again it flows through me and this time it is goes out the front side of me. Now a wave is being developed> I can feel the etheric body motions, my physical eyes aren't engaged because they can't really chase the wave when it flows through me and especially when I see it behind me. You can use many different focus targets to get the wave/ebb and flow going. Do this for a few cycles and you will find that you are now disassociated from your physical body focus. Hop on the wave and see where it leads you to!  

Last week I was experimenting with something else while doing a Phase soak session. This one had to  do with focusing on a flame front and center from me and then moving my physical head to the side and attempting once more to center that flame exactly how I saw it when my head was straight up, not on it's side. While using my physical eyes, I found it very difficult to do. My brain kept wanting that flame to appear sideways while my head was tilted. Once I was deep in a good NP focus though, it was simple to do. When you are deep in a NP focus, you have disassociated yourself in mindset from your physical existence. Your visual screen can now experience a 360 degree form of viewing.

Another thing I have been experimenting with is "forcing" and "allowing" things to occur. Example: Yesterday I began my Phase session like I do with my "Healing Mantra" to those that need it now. That mental Mantra also has visuals to accompany it. I then just relaxed and felt the warmth of the water. For some reason the bath plug seemed to not have a good seal and it was making the sound of a very slow trickle of water. I then got up and tried to fix it, but like the word "try" means, I failed to. So, I just laid back in the water and decided to utilize the sound to my advantage. I felt if I couldn't fix it, there was reason it was there.

After about ten minutes a relaxing, I began to see through some kind of tunnel view. The tunnel then opened up and I could see some wooden furniture. I forced my mind to see more and then and there the whole scenario went black. I was now in the 3D darkness again. After a few moments the scene began to open up again. This time though I didn't force anything.  I allowed the scene to get stronger and morph as it wished to. In other words, I gave the wheel to my curiosity and allowed it to steer where it wished to. This scenario lasted a good while. When I finally clicked back in to my physical focus, I found my bath water had cooled quite a bit. A great session with some teachings though. I love it when that happens!  

[tides2dust]

Hi! Thanks for the experiment and food for thought.