Teaching fatigue.

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Bedeekin

Are any of the experienced members on here growing tired of teaching and advising?

Or are the experienced ones feeling that actual experience amounts to nothing and therefor are almost frightened that to consider themselves experienced is almost a sacrilege to the new 'at the end of the day we really know nothing' climate?

Or does anyone with anything to offer get the feeling they have nothing to offer to the community because there are so many other differing opinions, like banging their head against a brick wall?

Or that they repeat themselves over and over again?

Does anyone here get the feeling that each thread created by somebody wanting to learn goes something like...

A - "I want to learn to AP"

B - "I do this... its really successful"

A - "thanks... I'll try that"

C - "I find this works"

D - "listen to this"

E - "I listen to this"

F - "here is a great resource"

G - "Be careful demons will get you"

D - "there's no such thing as demons"

G - "that's your belief system and is subjective"

F - "No he's right demons do exist because...."

H - "try surrounding yourself with love and light"

I - "it is subjective and there are no right answers.... but try this because I am right"

A - "I tried last night but it didn't work... what am I doing wrong?"



rain_88

Maybe if a lot of us come to the same conclusion it shows that there might be some truth to it. Or it shows that sooner or later we'll all reach the same dead end. At the and of the day, how could you tell  :evil:
I am sorry, I am so, for the things you don't know
And as for the things you do, I am sorry for those too

AstralCody

All I have to say is...

What are good techniques I can use? jk...  :-D

I think a lot of people are waking up and that's why a lot of people ask about it. I really never made my first topic for help until AFTER I learned how to project. Which makes no sense in itself. I would just browse these forums and read. I remember Mainly watching youtube videos with Robert Bruce... Spirit Science... etc.

I know what you mean though Bedeekin. I said this many times before but I think every technique is going to work differently for other people. I think it boils down to intent and realizing that you are not your body. Of course I also think it boils down to practice. You can't learn this stuff in one day and expect to be a pro at it you know? Alright now I am getting off track...

I know what you mean though... It seems like a lot of people are waking up. Especially with internet 2.0


Lionheart

#3
 Yes, yes and yes. I just find it frustrating to answer the same question again and again and again because some people want it now and don't want to do any work to find it. I try to stress the point that you get back what you put into this. Whether that's reading a book or watching a video every night for the next 6 months. I also try to stress the point that they should not open "Pandora's Box" unless they are ready to accept whats inside it. This one is probably the most frustrating though because you spend a lot of time trying to help them, then they come back on and say they are scared and want it to stop. Unfortunately it's not that easy.
You forgot the ever so popular questions that start arguments/disagreements here. "Is it a dream, Lucid Dream or an AP" or the other one " did I have a AP or a OBE"?
With most people though once they get to know the layout of the site, they are Ok finding the most common questions answered. I love hearing people's stories of their experiences. I love seeing their enthusiasm when they come here for the first time. Usually they are confused by some odd thing that happened to them and yes they are looking for answers. There are a lot of great people here, this site is a great resource for any one that wishes to learn more or experience the NPR for themselves. It is a place for healing and we have some fun topics as well. I don't like it when they come here looking for someone to share their fears with, especially when we try to help them alleviate them.
Tom Campbell said in a interview that "there is but one truth. But there are many different paths to find that truth".

Bedeekin

Quote from: rain_88 on November 02, 2012, 04:51:29
Maybe if a lot of us come to the same conclusion it shows that there might be some truth to it. Or it shows that sooner or later we'll all reach the same dead end. At the and of the day, how could you tell  :evil:

Oh you can tell... because you get Teaching fatigue.  :-D

actually... that last comment is more true than joke... You do sort of nail some bits down after years of practice.

I personally have come to a dead-end when it comes to teaching my personal method because I now realise that the climate is different to when I started. I was a little kid and had no resources at my disposal apart from a really crappy library. So I didn't get confused about all the info out there and sort of figured it out for myself. What is optimistic is that although I didn't have any influences (Monroe's book being the first thing I read 10 years after I had already established my own experience) there are many people who's experiences and theories match... albeit using different metaphors.

There are so many similarities and phenomenological commonalities that it is not as subjective as we think. If the subject was so subjective and personal... we wouldn't have anything to teach or knowledge to share... This needs to be recognised I think because the subject is starting to creep into a nihilistic frame of thinking; It's an illusion... what is real... how can we know... it's all personal... Whatever works for you... etc... yet this whole site promotes an AP school that you have to pay for.. "If You Are Serious About Learning Astral Projection, Here Is Your Opportunity"... what is the teaching method in astral pulse... because according to the non-paying members... there is no method... it's all subjective and personal.

A lot of people are waking up but it seems they are waking up to a cacophony of contradicting and confusing information. I am so thankful I learned myself before the digital revolution... and instead of thinking "Good for you Bedeekin,,, get you!!!!"... ask yourself "why would he say that?"

AstralCody

Also I admit... I do make a lot of topics regarding weird phenomena I have experienced, and often wonder why it happened, or new sensations I get... etc. Just curious if everyone else gets them or not. Like Lionheart said, it does get to me when people spread fear regarding this subject. I try not to explode when I talk to like minded people and they say "but... I saw the movie insidious" That just makes me... ugh.

Bedeekin

Quote from: Lionheart on November 02, 2012, 04:56:12
Yes, yes and yes. I just find it frustrating to answer the same question again and again and again because some people want it now and don't want to do any work to find it. I try to stress the point that you get back what you put into this. Whether that's reading a book or watching a video every night for the next 6 months. I also try to stress the point that they should not open "Pandora's Box" unless they are ready to accept whats inside it. This one is probably the most frustrating though because you spend a lot of time trying to help them, then they come back on and say they are scared and want it to stop. Unfortunately it's not that easy.
You forgot the ever so popular questions that start arguments/disagreements here. "Is it a dream, Lucid Dream or an AP" or the other one " did I have a AP or a OBE"?
With most people though once they get to know the layout of the site, they are Ok finding the most common questions answered. I love hearing people's stories of their experiences. I love seeing their enthusiasm when they come here for the first time. Usually they are confused by some odd thing that happened to them and yes they are looking for answers. There are a lot of great people here, this site is a great resource for any one that wishes to learn more or experience the NPR for themselves. It is a place for healing and we have some fun topics as well. I don't like it when they come here looking for someone to share their fears with, especially when we try to help them alleviate them.
Tom Campbell said in a interview that "there is but one truth. But there are many different paths to find that truth".

:-D you are very spot on there Lionheart.

""Is it a dream, Lucid Dream or an AP" or the other one " did I have a AP or a OBE"?" Cant believe I left those out either. But... they don't get one answer... they get many different ones.

I find myself most times... writing out some advice or post... then thinking... what's the point? I am just another voice to add to the confusion.

I have come to a personal and amazing life changing stage... things are happening that I cant begin to describe let alone broadcast... But I just don't want to say anything for many reasons... one is that it will just confuse the newbies... another is that I don't need other peoples opinions and I wont achieve any satisfaction or gain anything from doing so... on top of that I would need a while to really put them into a context that would be be useful to anybody.

Quote from: AstralCody on November 02, 2012, 05:12:37
Also I admit... I do make a lot of topics regarding weird phenomena I have experienced, and often wonder why it happened, or new sensations I get... etc. Just curious if everyone else gets them or not. Like Lionheart said, it does get to me when people spread fear regarding this subject. I try not to explode when I talk to like minded people and they say "but... I saw the movie insidious" That just makes me... ugh.

See sometimes when that happens I think that maybe... just maybe... we shouldn't as responsible peeps.. encourage them any further.

AstralCody

You make a very solid point bedeekin.

I re read some of these posts and can make more sense of what is being said too. For some reason I have to read things twice sometimes...

Everyone has different opinions like you said, and the person asking for advice is just going to get everybody's different opinion tossing in loads of confusion.

It's interesting to say that I was actually having my OBE symptoms come natural for me. Then when I joined these forums and read advice by a bunch of different users... I failed and couldn't have OBE's like I used to. I went back to the drawing board and realized... "I was doing fine when I wasn't trying what everybody else does... oh... BING!" And it's been easier ever since.

Lionheart

Quote from: AstralCody on November 02, 2012, 05:35:29
I re read some of these posts and can make more sense of what is being said too. For some reason I have to read things twice sometimes...
That's called "rehashing" Cody and is very usefull skill. I read posts/threads every time I am on this site. I go back into the Archives and read those, I read the stickies. I have listened to Tom Campbell's interviews at least 3 times over. Sometimes it takes seeing it again and again before it finally makes sense.
The difficulty that everyone has here is when they come here, they have to rid themselves of their "mental chains". When you come here, you have to unlearn almost everything you have learned about reality. You have to alter the way you think. That's not easy to do. But once you do, you will find the NPR easy to access. It's just you have to get rid of all the "mental baggage" and that doesn't happen right away. It takes time, patience and most importantly trust and belief!  :-)

AstralCody

Quote from: Lionheart on November 02, 2012, 05:44:10
That's called "rehashing" Cody and is very usefull skill. I read posts/threads every time I am on this site. I go back into the Archives and read those, I read the stickies. I have listened to Tom Campbell's interviews at least 3 times over. Sometimes it takes seeing it again and again before it finally makes sense.
The difficulty that everyone has here is when they come here, they have to rid themselves of their "mental chains". When you come here, you have to unlearn almost everything you have learned about reality. You have to alter the way you think. That's not easy to do. But once you do, you will find the NPR easy to access. It's just you have to get rid of all the "mental baggage" and that doesn't happen right away. It takes time, patience and most importantly trust and belief!  :-)

Very well put Lionheart. I couldn't agree more.  :-) It's not easy to do that is forsure. I been doing this for a while now and I am still struggling to get out of what society has taught me ever since I was a little kid. I think once I stop stressing the physical so much... things will come even easier for me. I remember the first video I watched on astral projection. I had so much intent.... So much will to try it.... (especially where I was at in my life) The very first night I had many OBE symptoms. That in itself for me shows that intent alone is really what it's all about. These forums have helped me so much.

Bedeekin

Rehashing is a skill that can only be learned by the practice of doing it that is usually spurred on because you realise that you miss information that wasn't previously part of your paradigm. Jeez... that was as confusing to write as it is to understand.  :-D

I read MBT for the third time recently and I was confused because I dont remember certain things that he said... I wondered at one point whether he has written the first 'potential' book that changes context as you evolve... who knows... next time I read it, it could be about cheese making.

Lionheart

Quote from: Bedeekin on November 02, 2012, 05:56:59
who knows... next time I read it, it could be about cheese making.
LOL, that's a good one, but true! As we advance in life and our personal awakenings, we see new meanings in a number of different things, things just start to make more sense. But that is what life is all about!  :-)

AstralCody

Quote from: Bedeekin on November 02, 2012, 05:56:59
Rehashing is a skill that can only be learned by the practice of doing it that is usually spurred on because you realise that you miss information that wasn't previously part of your paradigm. Jeez... that was as confusing to write as it is to understand.  :-D

I read MBT for the third time recently and I was confused because I dont remember certain things that he said... I wondered at one point whether he has written the first 'potential' book that changes context as you evolve... who knows... next time I read it, it could be about cheese making.

I wish my writing skills were a tad better... I read that and had a blank face until I read it about five times  :lol: If I tried writing that nobody would even know what I meant lol. I got this now... I am now storing it in my brain.

I'm off to bed though. The sun is about to come up. :-P Have a good night.... day...  everyone  :-)

rain_88

For me even a "simple" novel changes it's meaning if a read it again let's say a few years later. Which shows that you change, experience and due to this interpret things differently with all that under your belt.

But I agree with Lionheart, the same applies to a lot of things. Maybe everything if you examine it carefully.
I am sorry, I am so, for the things you don't know
And as for the things you do, I am sorry for those too

Bedeekin

And films... It's great watching a film that you last saw when you were a kid... the context changes so much.

But I will say that its only been a year since I first read it... then I re read it afterwards which didn't make much difference and only clarified what I had previously read. This time.. it was completely different. But I know that the reason is because I have had a total paradigm shift not because he has created a quantum shifting book.  :-D

Quote from: AstralCody on November 02, 2012, 06:08:06
I wish my writing skills were a tad better... I read that and had a blank face until I read it about five times  :lol: If I tried writing that nobody would even know what I meant lol.

I still have a blank face and I wrote it... I would like to know what I meant.  :-D

Szaxx

Hi,
Looking at the big picture. In looking at dreams, so many dont know what they are. They just happen, so what? Its this thinking that stops the development of critical thought.
Im sure we are in a low energy, high density trap of sorts and dreams are our natural tendency to return to actual normality.
This statement alone involves things like quantum tunneling and the assumption we are spiritual beings in a physical experience. Heard that before?
So few people will understand even the basic meaning of the above let alone having a conversation on its possibility.
Its all down to experience in life and the best thing at present is to open peoples eyes to this subject. It means lots of repeated Q n A's.
Yes these can be tedious but we are supporting an updating of a social science.
The more eyes that see the light (seeing is believing), the easier our quest.
There may be 100000 members on this site alone by next spring and thats a good number of interested souls.
Some experiences I've never had and others no-one has posted of. We as a collective should support the beginnings of our quest. A strong foundation is a very strong house.
Lets show the world the reality of this subjective PHYSICAL existance.
One ring to bind them...
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

rain_88

And what do you think about the reason for "being trapped" in such a trap? Are we young fragments of consciousness who needs to develop in order to "leave the trap"? Are we punished for something and we are "locked up" here in order to keep us from causing trouble elsewhere? Or why?
I am sorry, I am so, for the things you don't know
And as for the things you do, I am sorry for those too

Mr.Flip

#17
Well it seems what you guys are talking about is just a common mistake of not keeping it KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

its actually applied to anything and everything
see the world has a funny way of making something so complex and yet so ironically simple
one of the problems even i face as a student to this so called social science is that yeah at times individuals like yourselves, other practitioners, and even me tend to start wanting to go into specifics, when in reality u cant really get specific when you are trying to apply something on a massive/general level

Like a cake  :-)

cook me up a lousiana short cake, or a pound cake, ok then strawberry cake

"what the how??? what do i need for the lousiana and the strawberry and how many pounds are in the pound cake??"
no silly what you do is u teach the basic principles behind making a cake the actual basic fundamentals in baking, matter of fact you dont even teach the cakes, you teach the Art of Baking, you learn how certain materials react with other materials, the importance of the Egg, Salt, Water, Milk, Yeast, Oil, u also teach the importance of the different tools u use and the different factors like temperature, humidity, the quality of the materials as well.

other than that u can make the worlds best lousiana short cake, but if thats all u know how to make then ur not that diverse a baker then huh?

but in reality it sucks when u cant explain or futher advance your teachings to another for the simple reason that, that life is theirs and theirs only u have no control,
"You can take the horse to river, but you cant make em drink the water"

i am very well aware of the fact that my generation is so fortunate to have a place like this where you can go and discuss these topics and opinions to thers and also not be RIDICULED for doing soo, i first got into this exploring on the web and i found Astral Viewers (whoot whoott!! :-D) and honestly ive learned and in my own knowledge that the world revolves around one universal understanding and that is to keep proving FACT! which makes me soo happy because atleast we are still doing what plato and socrates where doing and the Mayans and egyptians

You guys are Rockstars, and not just any rockstars but Astral Explorerz 8-) Thank you

(!)Keep Exploring
(!)Spark it up

Bedeekin

Actually Mr Flip... I quite like that KISS.

If we understand that the fundamental law is fractal based, which the true nature of the universe is... it becomes a much simpler job to work out what anything is. Luckily there are some very friendly open minded scientists out there working out the real complicated stuff for us.

Survival of the fittest is the most indoctrinated concept in our psyche. That we are here because we got here tooth and claw. Essentially that is a load of shneiser and has been the reason why modern society as a whole arent getting very far.

Bruce Lipton points this out... He was the first guy to discover Stem Cell Research. He's much more intelligent than we are. He describes the interaction between cells as the true blueprint for our survival as a race.

A single cell co-operated with another... and another and another... until it was a community of cells acting in symbiosis with each other... doing specialised jobs and working towards a common goal... to be sentient. At one point a membrane surrounded the cells and they divided within this protective atmosphere until they created a multicellular organism. That these multicellular organisms were filling a sort of energy field or niche that preexisted. But they could only do so by agreeing... (not agreeing to disagree... that is a load of excrement and a way of non-winning/losing an argument that leaves both sides at a compromise. We will never move forward with a few disagreeing.) and cooperating for the good of the community. We have as a race forgot this and assume it is a dog eat dog world... a DOGMA eat DOGMA world.

Now... I have been very simple in my description but hopefully you get the idea.

But already.. I can hear the cogs turning... if you don't already know (not just heard or read it.. but know it), I bet you are already trying to fit that into your belief system... maybe you disagree entirely because you appear to have a very specific idea of the world around you. If you disagree you may write up what you think. Then someone might agree... then another... soon that little very simple description I have just given becomes muddled and lost in another cacophony of theories. But at the end of the day it's not a theory... it's a workable model by an extremely intelligent man. The model fits exactly into the model of MBT, another workable model by another sage of modern times. This in turn (being a part of fractal nature) is a workable model for AP/nonphysical exploration) Those models fit very snuggly and at a workable level into what will be the future of mankind... hopefully... if we dont claw each other to get to the top.

We will get nowhere if all we do is throw theories and opposing views around. We need to be ready as a group of individuals to embrace the new-edge science... we are literally at the forefront. AS A GROUP... as an entity of many... Not Borg... individuals with a common goal.

The beautiful thing about these workable models is that the are 'Keeping It Simple'.. but being fractal in nature can get sooooooo complicated that we will never really truly understand. But being fractal in nature are also unequivocally simple at the surface.

Szaxx

Hi,
Rain, the 'sort of trap' referrs to the fact of no prior knowledge of an afterlife. No way of interpreting the conciousness continues on. What we have is a glimpse of NP realities and these are subjective. Whats the purpose of dreams? Whats the purpose of physical reality? Two valid questions both simple and an exacting answer is not forthcoming.
There's  more pieces to the puzzle. Im going to read MBT soon to see another viewpoint.
To teach anything a wider perspective is required. On occasion a bright student will ask a question and expect an answer.
A disheartening lesson is a poor lesson.
The KISS concept is a good idea. It works to generalise on a subject. After that it becomes a hindrance. Fine details make the cake special...
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

Killa Rican

Well as they say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.". Goes for anything in life really.
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice. ~Joseph Dunninger

Bedeekin

Quote from: Szaxx on November 02, 2012, 15:08:42
Hi,
Rain, the 'sort of trap' referrs to the fact of no prior knowledge of an afterlife. No way of interpreting the conciousness continues on. What we have is a glimpse of NP realities and these are subjective. Whats the purpose of dreams? Whats the purpose of physical reality? Two valid questions both simple and an exacting answer is not forthcoming.

The answers to all of those questions are answered in MBT... those questions have been answered for me... and I wasn't really looking for them.

It's the question of whether you are willing to let go of your ego though. The same ego that is afraid of not being the one who figures it out.

Once those questions have been answered... the only thing is to move on from there and put the answers into PRACTICE. It's an APPLICABLE and WORKING model.

Quote from: Killa Rican on November 02, 2012, 15:34:26
Well as they say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.". Goes for anything in life really.

Very true... but sooner or later it will get thirsty. We are all thirsty... the problem is the water is there in front of us and has been all along.. we need to stop wondering and hypothesising what the water is and instead move forward.

Szaxx

Hi,
Adventures beyond the body by Christina Zaccariah is my present read and recommended to anyone.
MBT is now next in the queue. Followed by your other earlier suggestion.
Im still learning after 47 years of these experiences and would love to implant what I've learned into everyone on planet Earth.
This can't happen so being able to open some eyes to this subject is a good start.
What I have read is very close to that experienced and that in itself is conceptual bliss. I was on my own for a long time and got tied down with life. Now its so different and its being put into perspective by comments and suggestions made on the Pulse.
The answers to my personal questions have not been answered at all but reading others experiences is beginning to give me a position on a scale of achievement that is becoming clearer. Hopefully Ill find the answers and change this.
Keep up the good work on here.
No need to be despondent.
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

Bedeekin


Lionheart

 I think all those famous adages were made just for moments like this, lol. As having the job of training salespeople earlier in my life, that KISS one meant everything to me. It was and still is the blueprint for everything!  :-)