the reptilians and the grays

[Cool101]

So throught out all my astral travels ive noticed that the things the grays have said been true if you didnt know the grays have turned into a quite evil low frequency being because of the reptilians that enslaved them the grays im referling to are the zetan grays

Anyway the grays used to be a peaceful race i should mentain i have not got the full story through visions anyway all i know the reptilians enslaved there race that turned the grays race into evil bad intention race but i still found a few out of the 50 grays i have encountered that are still there true selfs nice peaceful but ive never had a long conversation with them due to the last remaining of grays constantly hiding due to there race being enslaved captured

ive had a few battles on planets with reptilians in what it looked like a war anyway have you had any experienes with et or reptilians ?

[soki]

Are you sure these grays as you call them are really not only a part of your imagination that transforms your experiences in what your mind feels like creating? I'm ok with the fact that there is probably another form of life than the one on this earth, I believe what Frank Kepple has found is a good interpretation of the universe and AP. But I don't believe there's a living organism such as the ''grays''. They are the most widely recognized visualisation of an alien lifeform as said on wiki. I think people who are telling stories about aliens coming to their bedroom are only a bad interpretation of the symptoms of a sleep paralysis. When people ''see the light'' and feel lifted in the air to a spaceship it's only the beginning of an AP and they don't know it. So their mind rationalizes the experience with what they've heard of, the most plausible explanation when they don't know about AP symptoms. Everything people are saying about those encounters are all from the beginning to the end reliable to an AP. After they've been lifted (separated from their body) their mind transform the experience into these encounters and since it's an AP it feels so real they think it actually happened in the physical. Don't think so. They often report seeing shades of people during night after waking up. The house shaking and everything these are all experienced by OBE practionners (house shaking being the vibrations with all the noises you hear during SP). You can get touched, lifted by someone or you can get an energetic massage, which people analyse as an advanced massage technology or powers of these ''superior beings''. I saw many documentaries that bring pretty interesting infos about alien life. I believe that there probably has been contact way before today with ancient civilisations such as africans and egyptians. There are proofs I saw them even if I'm not an UFO believer I can't deny it. So I won't. But things as gray and reptilians are a bit exagerated I think. They're a collective image and interpretations of many phenomenas otherly explained- and well explained with all logic explanations. And you are posting in the Out Of Body section of the forum which is not the primary subject of your post by the way! I mean no disrespect towards your beliefs, but I don't think it was an experience which can be labelled as a physical one that reflects reality. Maybe your interpretation of something, maybe your mind or guides are trying to show you something and make you learn with these. But don't go too far in believing everything you see in AP are real-life events. Don't forget you're in the dream universe. It looks like a proper astral projection for me, which means your mind created the environment and events that were occuring. Whatever the case, good continuation and I mean no disrespect at all!

[Cool101]

I was not in my bedroom when this happened i was in this woods like place i was flying around and this light cought my eye i went to see what is was and there dracos about (reptilians) thay attacked me out numbering me then i teleported somewhere else

and it was a gray that helped me he said he was a zetan gray and thats where the visions come in the gray also told me the dracos creater told them thay can create civilisations and colonise planets solar systems and universes but most kill any life thay find on other planets

[Xanth]

As far as I'm concerned, Soki has it mostly right.

All this talk about Grey this and Reptilian that... all these years, and absolutely NO physical proof exists.  It all smells of unrealized non-physical experiences to me.

Also consider the concept that everything you experience here is a virtual reality... nothing truly exists anyway.  We're all consciousness.
When you look at it from that perspective, none of this "grey" talk makes any sense.

[soki]

Interesting experience though try to analyze what you live in AP in a more rationnal manner because it will keep you from going further in your practice and learning many many interesting things!

[no_leaf_clover]

As far as I'm concerned, Soki has it mostly right.

All this talk about Grey this and Reptilian that... all these years, and absolutely NO physical proof exists.  It all smells of unrealized non-physical experiences to me.

One could say the same about OBEs, all these years and no physical proof exists.  It's all just hallucinations inside of your brain, no different than a dream, you don't go anywhere, etc. etc.  When people focus too much on what they consider rational, this is generally where it leads.  Rationality and more specifically science have hard limits, and the areas we're talking about are classic examples of those limits.

There's the obvious response of, "I don't need proof because I've experienced them myself."  This doesn't always seem to be a good answer (rationality speaking here) but there are lots of cases where I believe people genuinely experience things, and they report their experiences genuinely and something may really be going on.

As far as what the OP is saying, it's actually pretty common to hear. I like reading up on ETs and trying to figure out where all this stuff is coming from, and the idea of small grays as "slaves" or "droids" or some other variation on the idea of an obedient servant is very common.  We could say that somebody came up with this idea, and for whatever reason, it "stuck" in this subculture, and now everyone runs around repeating it. That's one possibility, and only the OP would be able to really ponder on whether or not he heard these ideas somewhere else or experienced them firsthand.  I know of at least two fairly well-known self-proclaimed ET contactees who say the same thing based on their personal experiences, who I personally think are genuinely telling what they believe to be true.

Physicality in itself is more or less an illusion, as even science is pointing out with more clarity all the time.  If something exists "in another dimension" it could probably just as easily be said that it exists in some other form of physicality, because physicality itself is mostly nothing but tiny "particles" (more like theoretical ideas of particles) having some kind of energetic interaction on some level, according to science.  I'm sure you guys have seen the comparisons of, "if this egg in the middle of this football field is a nucleus, then the electrons would be flying around in the grand stands," etc.  There really does not seem to be much to physicality but some kind of idea that we attach to the experience.

[Xanth]

One could say the same about OBEs, all these years and no physical proof exists.  It's all just hallucinations inside of your brain, no different than a dream, you don't go anywhere, etc. etc.  When people focus too much on what they consider rational, this is generally where it leads.  Rationality and more specifically science have hard limits, and the areas we're talking about are classic examples of those limits.

Quite correct.  Except I'm a bit beyond that in terms of proof. 

The whole "greys" thing is quite comfortably explained by non-physical explanations.  That doesn't mean that if someone presented some actual evidence to the contrary that I wouldn't consider it.
It's just that, in everything I've read on the concept, nobody has provided ANYTHING of any substance which could be considered "evidence".

There's nothing I can even do to experience it on my own without being in the non-physical... which then further explains it away as a non-physical interpretation.

There's the obvious response of, "I don't need proof because I've experienced them myself."  This doesn't always seem to be a good answer (rationality speaking here) but there are lots of cases where I believe people genuinely experience things, and they report their experiences genuinely and something may really be going on.

And they only have this experience during projections. 

I'm open mindedly skeptical... in all things.  I HAVE to be, but this is all easily explained away by what I know and understand about consciousness and reality.

[soki]

I wouldn't say there's no proof about AP. Read Monroe's second book there's plenty of verifications done in a LAB with specialists and everything. And there's way more than only one verification that has been done. Even if it's not as clear as e=mc2, it gives us reasons to believe that the common vision we have on AP is real and not only a feeling. I saw many times proofs and verifications that were done and were suggestive enough to support the Out Of Body theory. I watched a doc yesterday in french, which I found for my girlfriend who wishes to learn about OBE's since she's interested in what I'm telling her about my experiences and others. In this doc, someone talks about researches that have been made on the brainwave pattern of someone during AP, LD and while being consciously awake. It proves that this same pattern differs when someone is projecting. The pattern is different when people are lucid dreaming, when they are wide awake or sleeping. Each one of these states brings their own brainwave pattern. And AP has a pattern of its own, different from all the others. So we can confirm that APing is NOT the same as lucid dreaming. It's an experience of its own. Maybe it doesn't prove for sure that AP is what people say it is, but I think the more people search on it, the more the results confirm the hypothesis.

[Xanth]

I wouldn't say there's no proof about AP. Read Monroe's second book there's plenty of verifications done in a LAB with specialists and everything. And there's way more than only one verification that has been done. Even if it's not as clear as e=mc2, it gives us reasons to believe that the common vision we have on AP is real and not only a feeling. I saw many times proofs and verifications that were done and were suggestive enough to support the Out Of Body theory. I watched a doc yesterday in french, which I found for my girlfriend who wishes to learn about OBE's since she's interested in what I'm telling her about my experiences and others. In this doc, someone talks about researches that have been made on the brainwave pattern of someone during AP, LD and while being consciously awake. It proves that this same pattern differs when someone is projecting. The pattern is different when people are lucid dreaming, when they are wide awake or sleeping. Each one of these states brings their own brainwave pattern. And AP has a pattern of its own, different from all the others. So we can confirm that APing is NOT the same as lucid dreaming. It's an experience of its own. Maybe it doesn't prove for sure that AP is what people say it is, but I think the more people search on it, the more the results confirm the hypothesis.

I'll happily jump all over that statement. 

I can explain those differences.  They're not testing the "labels", they're testing the awareness of the individual.  If you break it down by "how aware you are" instead of "what kind of experience are they having", it becomes painfully obvious why you would then get different brainwaves.  One is a materialist perspective, the other is a wider consciousness perspective.

You have different brainwave activity during different (subjectively labeled) experiences because the awareness of the individual is different in the experiences tested.  All they're testing is the level of awareness the individual exhibits.  During an "OBE", they're more comparable to our waking brainwaves for a good reason:  You're just as aware there as you are here, so OF COURSE you're going to show similar brainwaves.  This doesn't prove the experiences are different.  It actually goes to prove MY perspective that the level of awareness is different throughout all of experience.

See, it's all in the interpretation of the data.  You can choose to look at it (incorrectly) from a materialistic perspective, or you can look at it as it SHOULD be, from a consciousness perspective.  You can't have the belief that you're a soul and not a physical body if you believe the first.  They're incompatible concepts.

Essentially, science hasn't begun asking the right questions yet.  They keep wanting to find answers in the individual illusion instead of the whole of consciousness.

[soki]

Ah interesting point I hadn't thought about it that way! Only shows me that AP is still a subject about wich we don't know much for sure. I'll try to keep that vision since it is the most logic. Thanks for the correction! It's not been a long time since I became active on the forum but one thing I noticed for sure is your thirst for putting down the labels about our consciousness Xanth hahaha! Really good point there!

[Xanth]

Ah interesting point I hadn't thought about it that way! Only shows me that AP is still a subject about wich we don't know much for sure. I'll try to keep that vision since it is the most logic. Thanks for the correction! It's not been a long time since I became active on the forum but one thing I noticed for sure is your thirst for putting down the labels about our consciousness Xanth hahaha! Really good point there!

LoL 

I may talk with authority on the subject, but that's only because what I share is MY perspective.  It's MY truth... it's not necessarily THE truth.  Don't get those confused.
I only speak with authority, because I'm very certain (not absolutely) that I'm right.  I'm positive that, eventually, if someone practices this stuff with as little bias as possible, that they will come to the same conclusions I have about consciousness and reality. 

You still need to do that very thing... so you may figure out your own perspective.  What I say might sound the most logical, but you're still encouraged to find your own way. 
Nobody says anything on this forum (or anywhere for that matter) that is THE truth.  The most someone can share with you is THEIR truth.  Nothing said in the history of mankind has been THE truth.  It's all an opinion/belief.  All of it. 

I just wanted to make sure that was understood. 

[no_leaf_clover]

So we have scientific/materialist ideas that everything about consciousness is in the body somewhere, the opposite of the view that we are a soul first and foremost having a physical experience.

So then if we carry that over to the ET question, I suppose we should give ETs the benefit of the doubt that they are conscious and have souls too.  So if they're conscious and are ultimately just souls too, then if they have physical experiences then they simply incarnate into a physical body the same way we would.  If they're smart then they would have even realized this already and capitalized on its implications, and got "straight to the point" instead of messing around with strictly physical technologies.  It's comprehensible that they could even reach some level of technology and/or spiritual development that they could do this at will, or even materialize/dematerialize as is actually often reported in UFO/ET experiences.

Proof is ultimately something that is subjective, something that has to be strictly interpreted in its own context, and is not always necessary in the first place.  For example e=mc^2 is not proof of anything, it's just a theory to explain theoretical data, which basically means it's nothing but a useful idea to try to make sense of things that we really don't understand.  Really unless we are conducting science here, then it becomes pretty irrelevant to bring science into this.  With the guy posting the OP that he has, I think we could take this whole thread in a different direction and just explore ideas of these kinds of experiences and the kind of consciousness associated with them, instead of making it about scientific studies.  Even without proof of what is happening in this subject, the fact remains that there is an immense and constantly growing body of case studies, regression sessions, police reports, enough stuff to fill volumes and volumes, but to sift through all of that it takes a little bit of interest.  There are lots of proposed explanations but the most interesting stuff is when people pursue it on its own level, for whatever it's worth.  And there is definitely a heavy element of states of consciousness playing a role.

There are a lot of people who draw parallels between modern ET experiences and ancient stories of fairies, angels, demons, etc.  All these parallels that can be drawn seem to point out that we may just be finding new ways to think about and try to explain otherwise incomprehensible experiences that have been happening to people for a long time.  I have some notes taken out of a book about Native American myths and legends that was written in the 1910's, and it gives a classic abduction story, except using natural objects that Native Americans were familiar with to explain everything.

[Xanth]

So we have scientific/materialist ideas that everything about consciousness is in the body somewhere, the opposite of the view that we are a soul first and foremost having a physical experience.

So then if we carry that over to the ET question, I suppose we should give ETs the benefit of the doubt that they are conscious and have souls too.  So if they're conscious and are ultimately just souls too, then if they have physical experiences then they simply incarnate into a physical body the same way we would.  If they're smart then they would have even realized this already and capitalized on its implications, and got "straight to the point" instead of messing around with strictly physical technologies.  It's comprehensible that they could even reach some level of technology and/or spiritual development that they could do this at will, or even materialize/dematerialize as is actually often reported in UFO/ET experiences.

Now THAT, to me, is a highly more likely scenario. 

[soki]

Until I live my own experiences by myself I won't take any conclusion for sure. What I say is it's the most logic theory of the phenomenon, so I accept this theory for now until I can verify myself. E=mc2 is a way of saying that mass is equivalent to the energy produced during a movement. IT HAS BEEN PROVEN that it works for every movement of an object. IT IS something that we clearly understand (well I do since I studied it when I was in school and we used it to calculate chemistry problems). IT DOES prove that the weight of an object will ALWAYS be in direct correlation with the energy created by the movement and there is no doubt about it. It's not a theory anymore since it has been proven to work with EVERY situation linked with the above. There's no theorical data in numbers that quantify something. Yes it's the human scale, we could use any other scale so it's a way quantifying something that is abstract. But everything is in human scale, we have to make scales if we wanna be able to understand things as they are. Yes scales are subjective. What is not understandable in all this?? Maybe it is not for you but it is for people who study it so why do you say that? What I meant is that the theories we find about the subject will stay theories until someone can prove a correlation that is always present in each situation between two aspects of an event. So we can say it's not as clear as E=mc2 since the correlation has been made and it can be applied to all situation and the result will be true (again calculated in our universal human scale). Nothing about AP is sure and there's no rule that has been scaled by humans about it for now. I understand it if you mean it's a subjective view of the matter. As are days, months years and numbers, letters for sounds etc. These are all interpretations made by human to be able to calculate and understand better our environment. And for the good sake of our minds we better keep it that way for now since we live in a society that works with those interpretations. Or else we won't be able to live our life a healthy way and it will be way more difficult.


And Xanth I understood what you meant, brainwaves are linked with how much consciousness we retain during an experience. It has no link with the state by itself, the state being a label, a scale created and accepted by people. So we better not get too familiar with it since there is no certainty about everything linked with AP and since it could change as people discover it and do researches on it. It was a way of scalling our conciousness level and we understand so little about our mind that this scale should not be taken as the truth and what reality is. For now and until results of experimentation show a direct correlation between all the aspects of our consciousness, I adopt the most logic explanation, the one that makes the most sense to me. That is how our beliefs work. Have a nice day everyone hope the explanation about my vision of things was understandable. Sorry for the deviation of the subject I like philosophy, it got up to an interesting topic.

[Volgerle]

There are a lot of people who draw parallels between modern ET experiences and ancient stories of fairies, angels, demons, etc.  All these parallels that can be drawn seem to point out that we may just be finding new ways to think about and try to explain otherwise incomprehensible experiences that have been happening to people for a long time.  I have some notes taken out of a book about Native American myths and legends that was written in the 1910's, and it gives a classic abduction story, except using natural objects that Native Americans were familiar with to explain everything.

There is a very good book from the late Dr. J. Fiebag on this topic. I would recommend it but unfortunately there is no English translation. It is called "Die Anderen" in German which means "The Others".

He wrote extensively on e.g. medieval myths about encounters and even abductions carried out by "Goblins" and all kinds of mythical beings. So yes, the phenomenon is old and it is also very ancient ("Ancient Aliens" has taught us so.)

I discovered by googling an old discussion group entry by him. It is worth the read and has even 17 years later not lost any of its relevance.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ufor/conversations/messages/205

His final conclusion, the last chapter of his book, about the 'nature of reality' is the finest write-up on the topic I have read so far. He even goes into the MBT- or hologram reality stuff a lot. So unfortunate that it is not to be found in English anywhere. This text above is a lecture of him that contains some of the stuff, it is not as good as the book (and does not contain that long conclusion chapter) but I recommend reading it anyway. He called it the "Mimikry hypothesis" Here's one quote, I do not say that I entirely agree with all of his conclusions, especially since it leaves us with a too negative view of 'ETs' (although I do not say I know better) but it is worth giving it a thought or two:

Apparently, this intelligence, which I like to term "The Other Ones," uses a kind of mimicry or camouflage behavior*. This enables these beings to operate within the maximum range of possibilities and also allows them to conceal much of their activity. This alien intelligence must be far more advanced than we are - perhaps hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years ahead of us. It seems to have learned to intervene in reality. Or better said, unlike us, it knows that reality as we know it, does not exist at all. Reality, as we define it, is merely a construct of our brain - of our perception. Whoever gains the knowledge of that fact is able to manipulate what we call "reality."  And - they can manipulate it whenever and wherever, and however they wish. What we consider reality, may be for "The Other Ones" nothing more than a play-ground similar to a cyber space simulation or a virtual reality scenario in our culture. We can only imagine what kind of rules govern this strange "game." "The Other Ones" can appear however they (or we) want them to. They can appear as magicians from Magonia, as mysterious aeronauts of the 19th century, as night goblins, as fairies, as small Greys, or beings in shining ships from the stars. The figures that are being observed in this phenomenon are obviously not "The Other Ones" themselves. What we really see are only their projections. Projections formed according to our social, cultural and religious belief systems during the moment of their apparition. These are the shadow masks they conceal themselves behind.

Since the beginning of history, people have been taken into the hands of gods and devils, of fairies and elves and goblins. Today, it is extraterrestrial beings. Sometimes, the witnesses only hear a thunder or see something like a bright flash of light. Sometimes they see airships in the clouds above them and believe the ships are from Magonia or some other mysterious place. Sometimes they observe bizarre air ships hanging in the sky, or they may come in contact with spaceships from Zeta Reticuli. These material manifestations only have a secondary meaning. They are dependent on the time in which the person lives. They are dependent upon the subject's beliefs, knowledge, and their hopes and fears. The basic model of contact between these elusive  intelligence's and us has been the same for millennia.

[Szaxx]

The labels used to describe anything will take a form that's natural for that time period. Its something that can be named so a common understanding is made. The concept of abduction from centuries ago is the important item. How its perceived and experienced methodically is what needs to be examined. The cultural labels used then take on a descriptive form in the explanation.
This is well documented with chemistry. The elements are the same, their names and described interactions are in a language prevalent for that time period.
An f-MRI scan for oxygen gave interesting results when the patient was experiencing vibrations. Around the 25 min point in the video.
http://iacblog-english.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/video-vibrational-state-neuroscience.html?m=1
Interesting similarity to NEW Robert Bruce.