The truth about OOBES and what they really are.

[manuel]

Oh really now? Wow, you said it "the truth' well ill be damned! I better listen to Sctt859 instead of my own experiences, so, all those experiences buy the likes of Rob Monroe, ober's, people who have had NDE's, and have seen things that where verified to be true, they too where dreaming huh? Sure.... you see people think the dream occurs within the brain, which is not true, all dreams, both lucid and non lucid happen out side the body, objective reality is not what it seems, oh heaven and hell you say...right.

[BOATS]

O.K. now I want you to prove to me that OBE are dreams.  You provide me the proof and I will accept your conclusion and not believe, else don't close your mind and require concrete and physical proof that it's not a venture to the spiritual realm.  I have questioned this myself in the past that it all might be a dream.  You need to have an open mind and understand something of quantum physics and the true nature of the universe.  I think at death the exit will be incredible.  We are perhaps just peaking through the door here. Still smiling.

[Sctt859]

Here is my proof of why oobe could possible be a more controlled dream. What is a dream?? does any one really know? Can you or any one here tell me a dream is the real spiritual realm? When we dream and sleep we get energy better then if we have a oobe because in a oobe we use are real life energy to make the oobe happen, so in a dream we dont use any energy we just do it our selves so we lose consiousness of what  is really happening to our bodies. So in other words, Your body is like a car. It can be drivin like a stick or a automatic. When we have a "oobe" we are making our bodies have dreams using it as a we use a stick in a car making us have more awareness of what happpens during the process of developing a dream.

Now in a automatic dream state, we just go to sleep close our eyes and lose consiousness. During the process of dreaming do we know if are phyisical bodies are paralized or vibrating no we dont know because we are not aware in this matter. WHo are we in a dream and who are we in a oobe. In a dream i cant be controlling my phyisical body i must be controlling a spirit or such. in a oobe im doing the same thing. So all this research makes me beleve all a oobe is more of a controlled dream. How can you prove its not?

[manuel]

Ill be honest, that made absolutely no sense what's so ever, so when one is out and they feel just as they are, they see thing, able to think just as they are 'awake' but there dreaming, according to you any way, right, go read some books on Robert Monroe, his first one is a good one, also read Rob Bruces books, good stuff, oh btw, if your interested in proving its real, prove it your self to your self, there's lot of cases that have been recorded down with verification, go look for em.

[Sctt859]

Im not saying iam right and im not saying the others are wrong. Robert and the rest of the guys dont have a clue of what the spirit realm is. They are just making guesses of what it can be. ALso why is it we have to be relaxed almost in a sleep like state to tap into the spirit realm. If they wernt dreams, we could command are spirits to do it when ever we want. I mean last time i checked it is my spirit. Why must my physical form must be lost first. I give credit to robert and the rest of the crew to try to come up with what i  call theories on what the spirital realm is. THus every one is intitled to their own opionion. My opionion is that a oobe is a more controlled dream. They say in a oobe you can fly into another room in your house see a shoe on the window seal go back to the physical world and see the same shoe there.

But yet in the dream realm i can see something happening in the dream in which it happens exactly in the future. Even if oobes and dreams are different. There is a link there connecting both of them and that link is being completly over looked by robert and the others.

[BOATS]

Have you ever met anyone in the Astral?  It is a real mind opening experience.  Keep trying AP until you do and then decide.

[Sctt859]

i meet people in a dream to and say to my self damn i wish i could meet them again. If you control your dream you will see lil to no difference between that and a OOBe.

[BOATS]

i am talking about having the clarity of being completely awake and having someone come up and start up a conversation.  Not a vague dream conversation that you can somewhat remember but a conversation that you will never forget.

[manuel]

my experiences with lucid dreams and obe's are VERY different, you must experience it to know both the differences.

[Sctt859]

Ive experenced both. thought i never talk to any one in the ap, like i said there is no difference the only differnce in a oobe is that you see your self going through the dream instead of it happening automatically. Once you control the dream and the around setencing then everything is  clear and real to you.

[manuel]

yes, there is no difrence...to you, to others, different story.

[BOATS]

I have had the Lucid dreams too.  But the first time I had a true AP and encountered Astral people scared the hell out of me.  I actially demanded they keep away from me.  They said O.K., they just wanted to talk and walked away annoyed.  I was actially afraid to sleep the following night.  If it was not for the intelligent people I have met a few times I would doubt the reality of the OBE.

[Sctt859]

how come we last longer in a dream then in a oobe?? its cause the dream is just a eaiser way to oobe. we lose energy in a oobe is because we dream it and before we dream it we use up so much energy going into a fantasy world which really is the stick way of going into a dream. Face it guys i have more proof that a oobe is a dream then it isnt a dream.

[Sctt859]

Can you guys give me any facts or proofs that a oobe isnt a dream? instead of the talk thing. I can easily talk to people in a dream that seems just as real as a oobe. Maybe even more real then in the phyisical realm. And in a dream and oobe you feel. Most important similarty is fear. We fear in dreams such as we do in a oobe.

[manuel]

Oh really lets hear your 'proof' i have heard of some one who could stay out of his body for hours, more then 6 hours in fact, Rob monroes experiences also lasted hours at times, you know, you say its the truth, as if you know every thing, sorry dude, but that reeks of arrogance, in fact any one claiming to know the truth and every one else is 'wrong' is realy just plain old arrogant.

[BOATS]

I wish we were in the Astral and I asked you to prove to me that the physical world exsisted.  If it is possible for there to be life after death, then we must have souls and if we do who is to say what the soul is capible of in the physical.  Read the bible and the accounts of OBE written about by Ezekiel, Danial and Paul.  Do you thing the perdictions given to then by God were just Dreams.  The Church even acknowledged the reality.

[Sctt859]

ROB Monroe says this and he says that. Ol robby boy also writes a book and prolly makes a lot of money off this too. 6 hours is nothing compared to a dream. [] if you ask me ive been telling you all my proof so lets hear what your proof is, stop using robbie as an example aand tell me your oobe experence that is so differnt then a dream. Can you die in a dream can you die in a oobe, do you return to the physical state in both realms? Are both realms achieved by a unconsious state? I can keep going on how dreams and oobes are the same can you tell me why they are different? besides one takes more awarness to achieve then the other? []

[Sctt859]

And boats, i beleve in life after death. The only True oobe occurs when the body totally dies and the brain also dies releasing the mind totally. Making the oobe you beleve in and the dreams vanquish for ever and in this new state we reach a new level of spiritualness

[Sctt859]

Also boats you said something about predictions.. i dont remember any one able to tell the future in a oobe. Usually you hear people saying they dreamt of something happening in a dream and it came to past in the real life. I never heard of this happening in a oobe. If you ask me The dream is the true spiritual realm in which all are answers are givin before us we just need to solve the dream to find out the answer. Kind of like a multiple choice test.

[manuel]

Rob Monroe no longer resides in this realm, fine two fine examples of my proof, experience one: this happened in the early days, I had projected into my parents room and saw my mother asleep by her self, i noticed my dad wasnt there, i noticed how the sheets had moved, i returned to my body, afterwards i went to my parents room and saw just had i seen, dad not there, mum asleep on the right side, the sheets moved to how i seen, and no pre knowledge, experience two: projected into yard, saw my dad in the corner staring at the flowers in the right corner, noted his shirt, pants and shoes, awoke verified, i asked him if he was staring at the flowers before, yes was his answer, right a dream is just a projection with subconcious image over load, during the night you might see loads of astral sleep walkers in this realm or astral realms in a sleep like state creating dream scenarios, dont know about your die in a dream or obe state as i have never died in one, and please, use your spell check.

[BOATS]

I will only mention the Bible once more as I do not want to bring religion into any of this.  What do you think happened to Paul on the Island of Patmos when he was lifted up in the spirit and given signs.

[BOATS]

I knew someone was going to mention spell check soon.  Keep smiling.

[drinsomno]

i agree with manuel toatly there is such a thing as an obe and it is not a dream it is an obe so get it right sctt859!
sorry if this offends you
[][][8D]

[Sctt859]

"use your spell check" I would just like to say even the simplist of human minds can make out even the hardest typo, science had proved it.

Ok ok, i will also agree in a oobe state i can see my room totally as it is in the physical realm, but as i stated before you are not letting your body do the sleeping for you, you are letting your mind do all the work. Like i set a example about the cars, You drive a car they can come in two forms, a stick and a automatic. Driving a stick is much harder and driving a automatic is much easier. Driving a stick is like having a oobe, Its  hard to learn but once you learn it its a much different experence then a automatic.

But stick and automatic have still the same function and that function is to make the car go. Now we go to oobe and dreaming when you let your mind do all the work things get so unclear and using all your energy you will not be aware of you losing so much energy you will see somethign right before you go to sleep and since you used so much energy your brain cant focus on images then other what your brain has seen last. So instead of creating its own image it iwll just create the last saved thing it remembers jotting down. So the last thing you see is your room, so when you wake up out of the dream/oobe you will be thinking to your self, Damn i seen all the exact stuff as when i had my oobe.

But acctually, your brain is sending you the last known image since its low on energy, but now that your in your sleep and your brain can store more energy you can now go to and create different places.

[Sctt859]

Also pauls spirit was lifted by the will of god, Paul was not practicing oobes.