...

[Vilkate]

COME TO THE DARK SIDE!!!


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[paker7]

COME TO THE DARK SIDE!!!


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What dark side do you mean ? Christianity ?

NO THANKS      

[Vilkate]

It depends on what you consider to be "the dark side".

[daem0n]

i am afraid of dying, and then dying again in the astral
catholicism has established good power sources and support community (i mean in the astral)
i needed it to come out of the depression/possesion, and learned a lot about non-attachment from it (giving yourself to God, while we are all one, is a good way to hike up, especially if most of your traumas are about being controlled, i had really rough time with this)
i never considered the teachings of the Church the real deal, but prayers .. definitely, they raised my consciousness immensly

[daem0n]

i am afraid of dying, and then dying again in the astral
catholicism has established good power sources and support community (i mean in the astral)

got it !!!
when i was 6 years old i have fallen of the ramp to the garage on my head, almost died (2 cm away from template), lost my sight for 24 hours
this is the day when i started to fear, especially darkness, i only remember going in a car, feeling wet and warm and seeing nothing, then fainted
not anymore, thank you really really really much
i am going hunting      
Demetriusz

[Nay]

Runlooooola, so refreshing to see you posting your opinion and not a media link.  Interesting that it takes this subject to get your motor running....does that give away to where your interest lies?    

So, I'm bashing now , am I?  I feel no waste of energy here, girlie, girl.   And unlike some people I don't have the ego to write a book about it.  I'll use Adrian's site to sing from the mountain tops, it works fine for me.

Obsessed?... I suppose I can say the same for the people with chronic neg problems.  Ok, obsessed I am then... I'm good with that.    Sorry you find me creepy, I find the crowd you enjoy, creepy, shall we argue about who's creepier? :skull:  

I don't get upset when they don't listen... I just keep talking.    And you want me to ask MYSELF if the negativity is good for me?..LOL...oh, boy.. that's funny.  I've been asking you neg lovers for years now, the same question.  So, do YOU think all this negativity is good for YOU?

Whom are these people amused by my entertainment? . I want names and then I shall charge them for my controlling, negative, and obsessive behavior.. I demand it!  get it? I demand it? :locolaugh:

I'm saddened by your smiley comment.. I thought you were the one who asked to add more because we didn't have enough?  Now I'm not allowed to use them.... too bad, I don't like your controlling ways, I shall use them now, in mulititude..  Muhahahah... yeah, I can be a b!tch.  

Geez.. I see the tag team as been hard at work.. I will respond if necessary.  I just love seeing that middle school mentality.
:crazy3:

[Vilkate]

Please stop, girls, you are not getting anywhere. Love, tolerance and forgiveness are the answers!  

[Nay]

Awwwww, lola, your true self is showing. :death:

Ok, Vilkate, I will cease.

[paker7]

Continue ! This is entertaining !  

grrrrr

roarrr

Catfight !  :tickle:  :popcorn:  :hearts:

[James S]

Intersting!

I just cast my vote and it looks like the "its a manifestation of fear" option seems to be coming along well ahead of the rest.

To me that's appropriate. That's what I've experienced the most in other people who've sought healing.

Blessings,
James.

[Greytraveller]

Right. Here's a question that anyone can answer. I am especially interested to see replies from both runlola and Nay.

Here is the Premise ---
A serial killer murders several people. The serial killer is finally caught. The serial killer is tried in court, found guilty and eventually executed.
So here's the question - if the serial killer's soul/spirit/astral body/ethereal body/whatever survives his physical death (exeution) is it reasonable to assume that he will continue his destructive existence as a discarnate spirit :question:

Follow up question. If the answer is yes then does or does not that discarnate then qualify as a negative entity???

The answer is painfully obvious to me. Yes to both questions.

Honestly I do not understand the argument that negative entities are all a product of a person's fears. If anyone believes in the objective reality of the out of body phenomena -as I must assuredly do - then they also must admit that malicious, destructive, immoral and downright evil discarnates exist in the out of body state. It is all very straightforward, very simple and very inescapable.

Even most of the great masters of the OBE have reported negative or hostile encounters with discarnates. (Robert Monroe described several frightening OOB encounters in his books.) All great religions teach that such malevolent beings exist. Also dozens, or even hundreds, of people continue to report such encounters (in forums like this one amoung others). Nonreligious, disbelieving skeptics have reported frightening NDEs that include terrifying attack by vicious discarnates (the hellish NDE). I myself have had 3 or 4 violent encounters with various discarnates during OBEs.

Yet some people just don't get it :confused:

They claim that it's no big deal. Or that there is no need to be upset or concerned. Some say that malevolent discarnates don't even exist - it's all in a person's head and is only a product of a person's fears

In many ways those people are as annoying as the skeptics who refuse to believe in the possibility of the OBE or the NDE. They discount hundreds or thousands of personal accounts. No doubt some reports are wrong and some people have been mistaken. But not everybody is mistaken.
Not every report is false, or a hoax, or a cry for attention, or a manifestation of personal fears, or an attempt to evade personal responsibility.
Some reports about neg entities are accurate because those entities do exist and people do sometimes encounter them while OOB.
Rant over.

[Greytraveller]

runlola
I agree that most serial killers are extremely antisocial. Therefore you are probably correct in presuming that most may haunt secluded places after their physical deaths. But it would be too presumptive to believe that All deceased spectral killers will quietly stay in out of the way places. Some will haunt buildings in cities and towns. Some will become (or remain) malevolent in spirit just as they were in the physical.
That is all I was trying to point out. Some people who are destructive, violent, antisocial and, yes, homicidal, while living in the physical will stay destructive, violent anti-social and homicidal in the spirit/astral/ethereal. Yet some will see 'the light' and "pass over". Some will not and will stay "earth bound' as negative entities.

PS. I know this for a fact because I have had violent encounters with some of these beings on at least 2 OBEs. :exclamation:  :exclamation:

[Nikpalj]

Like I said before, please read through (don't just take a look at it) "30 years among the dead", it's a century old - try to survive chapter 1, it's a genuinely alternative view on the all the "neg" bussiness (from a modern reader's point of view)...

Some of the things that are stated matter of factly I haven't seen anywhere else and from my own experience with the negs I deeply agree with it...

In our modern world we've simply forgotten that basically we are also spirits and that we're also living in the spirit world at all times, there are no "humans" really, just this sad unknowledgable state that we're presently in...

[Nay]

Nik,

Post some of your experiences here, I'm sure the good people of Astral Pulse would find them fascinating.

[Nay]

Dont' be shy, Nik..  Here, allow me to posts some links to your more than interesting threads. this one is only a couple pages.  

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=2774&start=0

Let me dig up the twenty-one page thread about your negs.

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=1490&start=0

Ok.. now that everyone can understand where you are coming from.......

[James S]

Right. Here's a question that anyone can answer. I am especially interested to see replies from both runlola and Nay.

Here is the Premise ---
A serial killer murders several people. The serial killer is finally caught. The serial killer is tried in court, found guilty and eventually executed.
So here's the question - if the serial killer's soul/spirit/astral body/ethereal body/whatever survives his physical death (exeution) is it reasonable to assume that he will continue his destructive existence as a discarnate spirit :question:

No, the soul of this person won't continue in that way.
Our souls are "God stuff" - pure light and pure love.
We cannot equate the emotions and actions of the physical body and mind - the ego - with the thoughts and actions of the soul. The soul exists on a higher level, completely removed from the fear based actions of the ego, which is essentially the root cause of all destructive actions.

The soul however does have a journey, you could say a journey of experience, to complete. As part of this journey the soul incarnates into physical form in order to achieve those experiences. The worst that can happen to the soul of a serial killer is that it will then choose to incarnate into its next physical "host" with a set of what can be called "karmic conditions" - challenges to overcome in order to repay its own karmic debt and learn the lessons needed to achieve growth or evolution.

The idea of the discarnate spirit of a serial killer becoming some deranged deadly poltergeist makes for books and movies much better than it does for real life. My experiences here come from helping "ghosts", discarnate souls that are still trapped in the Earth plane to cross over. I've yet to see a poltergeist be deliberately nasty. So far they've all been "lost souls" - frightened and confused rather than malicious.

The answer is painfully obvious to me. Yes to both questions.

Why is this? Belief systems?
It might be good to learn to communicate with spirits in an impartial manner, here in this world, without the limitations or expectations of belief systems. You might experience something different.

Honestly I do not understand the argument that negative entities are all a product of a person's fears. If anyone believes in the objective reality of the out of body phenomena -as I must assuredly do - then they also must admit that malicious, destructive, immoral and downright evil discarnates exist in the out of body state. It is all very straightforward, very simple and very inescapable.

Even most of the great masters of the OBE have reported negative or hostile encounters with discarnates. (Robert Monroe described several frightening OOB encounters in his books.) All great religions teach that such malevolent beings exist. Also dozens, or even hundreds, of people continue to report such encounters (in forums like this one amoung others). Nonreligious, disbelieving skeptics have reported frightening NDEs that include terrifying attack by vicious discarnates (the hellish NDE). I myself have had 3 or 4 violent encounters with various discarnates during OBEs.

The problem I see here with these comments is that as a human projecting into the astral you are still fully subject to your belief systems and expectations. No matter how impartial a projector claims to be, they are still experiencing things through human eyes, processing what they see with human thinking. Again, this does not equate with the consciousness of the soul which sees and comprehends things things in a way that is unhindered by human thought restrictions.

This is why the soul can also be called the "higher self". It operates on a dfferent level.

I would say to anyone here that if you want a more objective view into things like negs, stop going into the astral with human beliefs and expectations and spend a little more time with your feet firmly on the ground. Learn mediumship and allow the spirits to come to you and show you things from their perspective. It can make a big difference!

I don't dispute the existance of negs at all, but my experiences, and those of the mediums who work with me in a professional, spiritual teaching capacity, all view the subject of negs in the same way - that there is far more negativity out there that is a product of what we create within ourselves than there is "free-form" sentient negative entities or energies.

Through fear, the human ego is a far more prevalent "generator" of negative energies than the spirit world.

These are only my thoughts based on my experiences, which, I will say have become more broadened since I've started working full time at an institute for spiritual studies, but they are still only my thoughts.

It is true that our belief creates our reality. Therefore I will concede that while I may not agree with some people's perceptions of matters like negs, it is none the less their own reality they must deal with.

Blessings,
James.

[Greytraveller]

James
No person can completely disregard their own belief system, either in the physical or while out of body. So, yes, I do have a definite system of beliefs, and, yes, I unavoidably carry that belief system with me when I go out of body.
However, the question of whether or not 'negative entities' exist or not is not a question about my belief system. I do not go OOB looking for trouble, I go OOB looking for answers, knowledge and information. Yet I have had violent encounters with discarnates while OOB.
So maybe I could have avoided these confrontations. Maybe. Maybe not. The real issue here is that these violent and malevolent discarnates do exist.
It would be nice to believe that all discarnates/souls are intrinsically light and love. That is something that I pointedly do not believe.
There is a malevolent, evil force that transcends individuals just as there is a light and loving force that also transcends individuals.
It would be a mistaken assumption to assume that all discarnates are human souls. Many discarnates have never been human and will never be human.
Also perhaps you should question your own belief system.
You wrote
                   "  Our souls are "God stuff" - pure light and pure love."
and
                    " The worst that can happen to the soul of a serial killer is that it will then choose to incarnate into its next physical "host" with a set of what can be called "karmic conditions" - challenges to overcome in order to repay its own karmic debt and learn the lessons needed to achieve growth or evolution. "


Frankly, to me, that appears very much like theory. It May apply to some souls. It Does Not apply to every soul. To state that it does apply to every soul (whether human or otherwise) comes dangerously close to dogma.

Peace
Grey

[James S]

Greytraveller,

Yes I do have a belief system, as any person does, but my belief system is built up out of experiences, not theories or what I've been told to believe by others, or just what I've read in books.

I am a medium who works in a spiritual learning centre with many other mediums and channels. I'm also connected to another spiritual learning centre that has a different focus and direction to the first, which has brought in people from different backgrounds to the first. We have all experienced the same thing where it comes to the matter of souls - all of us, and a great many more people that we're all in contact with.

Having said I don't take my belief system from books, I have read a great many books by many different authors whos own experiences support what I and many other mediums and psychics around me believe about souls.

The idea that our souls come from a source of universal love  - from oneness, is no where close to being dogma. It is simple information that has been available to us since the beginnings of our race, and is still being made available to us.

This information has only ever been contradicted by religions that seek control over people by telling them that they are somehow separate from the oneness, and that the only way to reconnect to that oneness if through that particular religion. It is also these religions that brought forward the idea of evil, which is just one more human concept that has sought to limit how we see things.

I'm not about to tell you what you should be believing. That's entirely your choice.
What I would ask though is how well do your beliefs serve you? How often do you find yourself acting or reacting out of fear because of what you believe?

Beliefs are very much individual things, but we need to be aware of whether our beliefs serve us and help us to grow or not.

BLessings,
James.

[Greytraveller]

James S
Your last post was thoughtful and well written. The point about religion is particularly well taken.

I do not intend to question your experience. I have no doubt that what you state is true - at least so far as to what you have experienced.
Understand that I also speak from experience. Even if I discounted the hundreds of reports about frightening encounters with malevolent discarnates I would still have my own experiences to rely upon.
Even if you are right in the belief that ALL souls come from one source of light and love - which I do not believe BTW - it still fails to explain why discarnates continue to take evil and malevolent actions. That is what I am trying to point out.
Perhaps, eventually, all malevolent souls will become enlightened and return to the One source. However, until that enlightenment occurs attacks by (temporary??) negative entities will continue.

[James S]

Hi Greytraveller,
We can finally post again on this topic!!! YAY!!!

Thanks for the kind words.

I think I see where you're coming from, and I agree that there are definitely spirit beings around that cause a lot of trouble.

From doing "soul rescues" - helping souls of deceased people that have become stuck in the earth plane for whatever reason to cross over, I know there is that inbetween stage, where a persons discarnate consciousness is neither in a physical body, or reintegrated in their "higher soul". These discarnates can suffer all the negaitve human thoughts and emotions that we do, and become very angry and destructive.

I haven't had any real experience with negative entities myself, but there are a few in my college that I've recently spoken to that have.
There certainly does to be entities out there born of all the negative thoughts and emotions that we generate. These entities also embody all the "evil" amd malicious feelings that we have.

I wonder though if it is possible for a soul to have "de-evolved" far enough that their actions, from our perspective, are seen as malicious? Souls that still have a long way to progress.  

Blessings,
James.

[Greytraveller]

James S
Just a thought on the idea of a soul that 'de-evolved'.
It seems that most of the thinking about spiritual growth and enlightment believes that the path to a higher soul is mostly straight and linear. In otherwords continue to do good deeds, live right, help others and learn and a person will evolve into a higher being.
That works for many, no doubt, or even most. Yet for at least some others the path to spiritual enlightenment is not so linear. Apparently some souls do de-evolve before they can progress. (I will think positively here and state that all souls will eventually progress (though I am far from certain about this.))
So the de-evolving soul could be de-evolving for any number of reasons. For many it will only be a temporary detour. They will learn their lesson(s) and not repeat the same mistakes next time.
For others, however, well perhaps some of those 'others' are now
termed negs. :question:  

[Nay]

LOL.  You can have your negs Grey.. you just won't find them at this paticular site.  

[Greytraveller]

Nay
I don't Want negs.  :confused:
But sometimes while OOB I encounter them.  
Not many times but only a few times.

My point is that if this happens to me then it surely must be happening to others.
Granted this is not something to encourage or dwell upon. I certainly do not start an OBE looking for trouble.
Those who do experience hostile entities often find it hard to report the experience and to discuss it. It is even harder when people flat out deny that this sort of thing can happen. I don't believe Every report about a malevolent spirit but I do keep an open mind about it.  

[James S]

That works for many, no doubt, or even most. Yet for at least some others the path to spiritual enlightenment is not so linear. Apparently some souls do de-evolve before they can progress. (I will think positively here and state that all souls will eventually progress (though I am far from certain about this.))

Hi Greytraveller.

I agree with your thoughts here.
Just because our ultimate goal is spiritual evolution, doesn't mean we're always travelling in a straight line towards it. Souls can often get stuck in lifetimes where they just don't learn the lessons they're meant to, and effectively do a bit of a backward spiral before moving ahead again.

Blessings,
James.