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Author Topic: Astral Martial Arts  (Read 11909 times)
Ides315
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« on: November 12, 2002, 20:02:57 »

Hey enderwiggin

You need to talk to kakkarot.

Learn and practice the NEW system. It will work well for whatever energy system you utilize.

If you want to do martial arts on the astral, then do them. It is as simple as that. Your own mind will probably be one of the biggest limiting factors to what you can achieve for quite a while.

Best of luck

 
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kakkarot
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2002, 01:34:16 »

well, gee, thanks ides for mentioning me so quickly. makes me feel kinda smart  Smiley

first off, if you don't mind, i would like to know if you practice in a north american "dojo" (or whatever it is called in your martial art) and if possible, the nationality (not ethnicicity, please.) of the person who has been telling you about qi. i would also like to know what art you have been studying that teaches qi.

from what i have read and experienced, qi is NOT a state of mind. it is an energy, just like when billions of electrons moving through a wire is called energy. only qi is spiritual whereas electricity is physical (or at least it exists on the physical). as for being "empty", i know that karate is translated into "empty hands" (though it originally meant "china hands" because the japanese hand to hand martial arts were derived from the chinese hand to hand forms and then changed to suit their own customs), but i have not heard of qi being translated into "empty" force. most americans seem to belief that the direct translation is "breathe", and in a way that is how it is usually explained to people.

also, as to it being highly dangerous, well, that depends on how powerful you are. and it is only dangerous if you use it against other beings right? using it just in your form isn't dangerous at all. it is the application of the force through your attacks that make it dangerous. or just attacking with it on its own when you become skilled enough and are powerful enough can be deadly.

i have heard of a martial art, i think in indonesia?, where the entire art is on focusing negative chi so strongly that you can kill a person just by tapping their chest when you are advanced enough in the art. the art is characterized by the masters rarely cutting their fingernails, instead letting them grow long for traditional reasons. i forget what it is called, but (amazingly enough) i first heard about it in the "Ninjas and Superspies" reference book for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles role playing game. when i went looking for it on the internet (on the off chance that it might be real) i actually found a site about it! !!!  i was shocked. it is real, and emulated in a role playing game none-the-less!

any questions or want any further knowledge? i can be of help, and there are also many useful and some not-useful (ie garbage) sites on the internet that might help you. also check your local library. you might find something there. look in the martial arts sections and look for books that were written by oriental masters (i find that most north americans are either completely out to lunch in what they know, or are sooo screwed up that the few things that they know that are right are tangled into enormous amounts of superstition and untruth).

~kakkarot

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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2002, 01:34:16 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2002, 20:33:50 »

Hey Kakkarot-

        I study Northern Shaolin kung fu, eagle claw style. I assure you, my instructor is excellent and has been trraining some ten years, six to eight hours a day. He's not Chinese but the ethnicity has nothing to do with the capability of the person, as he has demonstrated. I've seen what he can do with my own eyes, and I am convinced of his ability and talent, both as a teacher and a fighter. He's by far the most incredible human being I know. Yes, I study in the USA.  We do just about everything, from punching and kicking to grappling to body and mind conditioning. We learn to utilize our qi and apply it to our techniques. We also condition our bodies to be able to take strikes and not get hurt by them.
        I also study ju jitsu as a secondary style, but it doesn't seem to get as into using the qi energy as kung fu. I guess maybe that comes later. Right now I am still developing internal qi. I'm a yellow belt, one stripe. As for kung fu, I don't have my first sash yet. The training is very rigorous and my instructor doesn't just give away ranks.  I may get my sash this year if my instructor stays around.
        Empty Force, a form of qi gong, is the use of qi to defend yourself from your enemies without  physically touching them. You could knock them into the air with a wave of your hand some 15 feet away from them.  I don't know much about it, except from what I've read out of a book entitled "CHI GONG: THE ANCIENT CHINESE WAY TO HEALTH" by Paul Dong and Aristide H. Esser, M.D. It's a book that's meant for people who want to begin practice of qi gong. I don't practice, but I was interested and thought this book might answer some of my questions, which it did. I found it to be an interesting book; if you're interested in qi gong, you might consider reading it to get you started.

Arthur Dent sat in a chair that appeared to be made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus. Slartibartfast turned to him and said, "that chair was made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus."
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2002, 20:36:30 »

P.S.   By the way, what is this "NEW SYSTEM" of which you speak?

Arthur Dent sat in a chair that appeared to be made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus. Slartibartfast turned to him and said, "that chair was made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus."
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kakkarot
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2002, 18:43:46 »

while it is true that many north americans make excellent fighters, there is still something about north americans that make me really skeptical as to whether they could possibly match up to the real warriors of the orient. especially when it comes to the "super" natural. after all, in north america, we are told from childhood that such things do not exist, while in the orient, the tradition is to teach such things to the young.

but anyway. can your teacher do anything amazing using his chi?

you say that you have been reading about qi gong: i have read about it, but have decided that the methods i am going through for developing my energy are probably the best for me. and a better style, i think, than qi gong is probably tai chi chuan. it utilizes chi into its practices and is a very good martial art, if extremely difficult to master (not to mention it takes multiple decades to master).

you have said that you want to know how to fight in the astral. i have never been to the astral, and the only knowledge i have of it is from other sources. however, i can make fairly good theories on how one would fight in the astral, but i need to know what YOU want to know about it. kinda like: i need to know how much you know before i can help you more.

~kakkarot

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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2002, 18:43:46 »



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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2002, 18:49:44 »

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2002, 06:40:16 »

As I've stated before, my teacher is by far the most amazing, incredible human being I've ever known. His mind, though he is only a couple years older than I am, is far beyond what most people in America have managed to develop. Yes, he has healed some of my physical injuries with qi, i.e. sprained shoulders within seconds. He could analyze your injuries with his qi and tell you how to treat them. I wouldn't think twice about how good he is, because I KNOW. He is one of the few who has escaped the blinding words of our elders from childbirth in the USA, maybe because his parents were more open-minded about this kind of thing. They are also martial artists.

It seems that ignorance always wins, unfortunately. I'm not sure why this is, and I don't like it. I've got an analogy for you: I live in a quad in a dorm. I like two of my roommates enough, but the dominant one is also by far the most ignorant. A real muscle-headed, simple-minded moron. None of us like him and he's unwilling to compromise anything or help anyone out in any way, and yet he still gets what he wants all the time, because we care enough to help others. All he cares about is girls and how many he can have intercourse with, and I've bluntly told him how much it angers me that he has no standards and does not care about the needs of others. He could never have a real relationship with a girl, and I doubt he cares enough about it to try. Just like in society- The ignorant people are the ones who have the power to hurt us. Though knowledge is power, ignorance in numbers is very devastating. When only a few have knowledge, ignorance prevails and strengthens, and consumes all the hard work of those who have tried to make the world a better place.
 It is true that Western society has many flaws in this way. But people like you and I have managed to not let others take away what we somehow know or believe is true, and as long as we exist, then the knowledge will never die. We can only succeed if we all work together (yeah I know, it's a cliche but it's true). I knew when I was a child that there were greater things out there that I was "taught" did not exist. But everything comes from something. I revert to my dreams from my childhood and they inspire me to keep trying. I can get back what I have lost, or rather, what was taken away from me and most of us in Western, European-based cultures by our elders. Don't think you can, know you can. For me, to think that as an American I could never be what a Chinese or Asian person is to martial arts is negative and counter-productive, even with all the limitations that are stereotype of Westerners. Thoughts must be positive in order for anyone to succeed, and personally, i don't care about being THE best, only MY best. Even if I cannot acheive what monks have acheived, I only want to know that I am at my personal best and that I am trying 110%, and constantly improving. I was given my own gifts and my life has its own shape. I accept my weaknesses and strengths for what they are, and I'll work with them however is best for me in order to acheive my goals. I understand the disposition of your skepticism about North American martial artists, and I partially agree with you. Some of us are the best in the world, however. Qi gong is still very new to Western culture. Give it time, and like all things, it too will grow.

As far as astral projection, I have not been successful yet. But I think that's just as well if I don't know how to defend myself on the A-Plane. I know a bit from the stuff I have read in Robert Bruce's "Treatise on Astral Projection." I've not really tried hard enough to project, i think. Today I talked to someone about it, and now I don't want to project until I know someone who I can talk to in person who actually projects on a regular basis.

Anyway, I think we're getting off-track from the original question, "is it possible to use martial arts to defeat evil spirits, either on the astral plane or, say, an evil ghost in your room?" I think it's basically a "yes" or "no" question with a little bit of "how" in it. Maybe it has nothing to do with qi at all and may require a different way of thinking about it. You mention this "New System" which I still am not familiar with, but interested to learn about. Tell me about it. I will learn eventually how to project correctly, and gather all the knowledge I can about this sort of thing. Until then, I'll just keep up my training.

Arthur Dent sat in a chair that appeared to be made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus. Slartibartfast turned to him and said, "that chair was made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus."
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2002, 23:31:08 »

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kakkarot
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2002, 17:13:06 »

thank you enderwiggin. you have given me good reason to trust your master. so why don't you trust him and ask him to teach you such things?

i don't think it would be hard for me to tell you, in fact i will try, but it will be much easier for him to help you than me. unless he is a really busy person.

"Anyway, I think we're getting off-track from the original question, "is it possible to use martial arts to defeat evil spirits, either on the astral plane or, say, an evil ghost in your room?"" I agree, we have gotten away from it. and the answer is yes. as to the NEW system, i don't know much about it. i learned how to use chi on my own, long before i ever knew of this forum.

what else would you like to know?

~kakkarot

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Ides315
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2002, 23:06:38 »

Hey, guys.

The NEW system is Roberts method for teaching people how to develop their own energy systems. It will compliment whatever energy you use very well. It can be found in the downloads area, or a more complete description is given in Astral Dynamics. It does not really teach you how to access specific types of energy, but is more of a workout to get your own energy body up to handling energy.

As for doing much of anything on the astral, you just do it. I have not yet traveled to other planes, but do move around in the real time zone. Things do operate in a full 3-d enviroment (gravity only applies if you want it to). Anything you can do physically you can do in the astral, plus a lot more. When I first started getting into combat in the astral, I used a two handed sword at blurring speeds for both attack and defense. For "physical" type motions, you should be able to approach the levels of the very best, as it is all based on the mind, and how well you think you can do something.

Hope that helps.

 
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2002, 04:52:52 »

Hello again everyone. This is going to be my last reply for a little while. I have to talk to my kung fu teacher some more about astral planing. Maybe he can give me techniques so I can get out of my body easier. I'm happy to see that people have been replying to my ideas and were able to answer my questions. This time I want to share a dream I had that was a recurrence of a real life event. Over the summer I was dating a Wiccan who was new to the religion. I slept over her house one night and felt the presence of a very powerful demon outside of her house on the steps, trying to enter the house. I imagined myself with some sort of a "light-saber" that utilized white energy to kill off any darkness and supplied myself with a carbon-60 body shield (carbon-60 is a very strong substance, and is the newest discovered form of pure carbon). I kept slashing until I was through the demon's defenses. I was barely able to fend off the demon. I believe the demon was red and had batlike wings, probably some horns on its head- pretty typical apperaance, and was very evil, the most evil I've encountered, ever. I don't know exactly how tough it was, but I felt it was pretty tough to fight. I also had to imagine a cross in my mind to fight it off, and kept thinking, "by the power of Christ, be gone." Last night I had a dream about this event, but this time instead of acting in self defense, I had a "bring it on" attitude, and the demon immediately left. What's interesting is that the kung fu training I had made me very energetic, and usually I am somewhat tired afterwards. Anyway, what I learned from my experience is this: Light cuts darkness. Darkness cannot cut light. By the way there is supposed to be a spectacular meteor shower (leonids) tonight visible to North America and England, but unfortunately for me, the clouds are blocking the view. I hope we have another leonid shower sometime this year on a clear night. Thanks everyone for your help., especially Kakkaron. I definitely trust my master over anyone but unfortunately he is definitely a really busy person. I think he will make time if I ask him at the end of some class, but I don't think he's into astral projection. I don't know much about his spiritual background, I would say he's a Christian, but that's all I know. He told me never to close off my brain to an idea no matter how obscure it may seem, because it could limit other things or ways of thinking later on. So I took his advice; all things may be possible. Some I know are, the rest I do not yet know. Whatever he tells me, I know he's trustworthy and I can follow his advice without fear that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'll see what he says about astral martial arts.

Arthur Dent sat in a chair that appeared to be made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus. Slartibartfast turned to him and said, "that chair was made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus."
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Nita
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2002, 04:19:23 »

Hello Everyone
   You can shape change, use martial arts or actually change the shape of the astral plane where you are at and its qualities. The best thing is to realize that you do not have to fight anything or anyone. You can just go somewhere to a different tile or tone/color/vibration in a instant and not take whatever is bothering you with you.
  The mental discipline of the martial arts will help with whatever you do on the astral.
   Nita

 
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2002, 17:18:33 »

I would like to note here that one of the intial attractions to NEW and Astral Dynamics was the abscence of eastern terminology. Robert made a point to direct this towards our western mind and leave any references to Eastern Spirituallity at a minimum. It made things a lot easier for me, as I am a product of the suburbs of America. Qi, chi, etc. are all just energy to me.

 
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kakkarot
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2002, 17:34:27 »

this "Eastern" spirituallity of which you speak is not of which we talk, though.

such things are usable by anyone, regardless of being eastener or westener. true the names i use come from the countries that the energies were originally "found" from, but it is better to use the original name to talk about something than to go around making up your own and confusing everyone who uses their own names. kind of like if i were to go around calling a car a cow. i would still know what i meant when i said cow, but nobody else would. this society has already decided that the word to describe a four-wheeled motor vehicle that was designed for passengers rather than power (ie. car vs. truck), so that whenever someone uses that word, we know what that someone is talking about. same thing here. you say tomato, i say kundalini?  Smiley

~kakkarot

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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2002, 14:15:16 »

I'd like to briefly go off on a tangent subject, concerning "presences." I have a friend who can actually see a spirit's energy move sometimes (in the "real" world). She can sense presences around her anywhere, and I thought I sensed one once of a demon. I don't know if I really sensed it or if I was just imagining it. But it's like they say- All fiction has some basis of reality. I mentioned this earlier, but how would one fight off a powerful demon? I don't know if it was me who made it leave when I tried to fight it or whether it left on its own. All I know is that I imagined myself shooting shockwaves of energy at the demon to destroy it, as I would on the astral plane, with a cross present in the background. I know demons hate crosses, and I kept thinking "by the power of Christ, be gone." I wonder sometimes if I can defend myself from these kinds of demons or whether I just got lucky that time. What's the best way to fight something like this?

On another note, I think even after we're dead, we kung fu brothers and sisters stick together, because sometimes a neg will mess with me and an army of spirits attacks it. Other times I find myself helping to defend other souls. And still other times I find myself fighting alone. So I guess it depends on who's around at the time.

Arthur Dent sat in a chair that appeared to be made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus. Slartibartfast turned to him and said, "that chair was made out of the skeleton of a stegosaurus."
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Ides315
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2002, 15:09:41 »

Hey enderwiggin

A few thoughts on the Demon. If you did infact beat a full manifestation of one, you are more powerful, have more help than you realize. Follow the thread "why not just shield" to pick up some more. But my perspective on what a lot of people call demons are infact different types of negatives. Not that I disbelieve in demons, just that there is a lot of entities before you get to that level, and the level to which a true demon can manifest limits what it can do. Nita would probably be able to fill in more thoughts on that, as would Winged Wolf. They both come from different perspectives, however, so their views on things are accordingly different.

As far as seeing or perceiving things, most (all) people are capable of it, with good development. Some are just naturals

We are all one, and help in our ways.  I know people that go out every night to help others, not even fully aware of what they were doing. There are others that do it with full intention, and still others that have crossed over, that reach through to help on this side.



 
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2002, 19:13:33 »

I have been studying a system of martial arts called Cha Yon Ryu. We incorporate quite a few different studies as well.  My instructor also explains the importance of energy flow meditation ect... i do not need to go into this...it seems as though ya'll have a lot of knowledge in this area. I found it very easy to get into a trance state and almost make it out of body. I think that my martial traing has made this possible. As before i couldn't even sit still with my eyes closed without thinking about all my daily things..much less clear the mind long enough to enter a trance. about the other stuff.. I have no idea as I have never made it out of body without trying to. I have once before I knew what projection was... i never felt unsafe in any way.
Elway

 
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kakkarot
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2002, 19:06:58 »

well, enderwiggin, i am going to have to disagree with ides slightly. i believe that it is true that there are many forms of entities that are fairly weak, and that some people believe are demons, and some entities that try to make some people believe they are demons.

but i have to also say that i am fairly sure that, just like with humans, demons are not ALL of the same powerful state. some are weaker than others, some are stronger (hence the reason why you may sometimes come across people classifying demons into categories like King Demon or Emperor Demon (check http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=399)). and some are so weak, that they can compare only to a slightly powerful human, as some are so powerful that it is likely no human is going to be able to defeat it alone.

so maybe you got lucky and got a weak one. and of course there is also the possibility that it didn't want to get into a fight so it left on its own. can't really say which.

elway: lucky you to be in such an art as that. congrats.

~kakkarot

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helen
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2002, 20:26:57 »

HI EnderWiggen,KaKKarot and Elway assuming that you are all male I,ve read every bit and you all fasinate me,the male is a species who does not want to become -----------------THE understood-------------and that is the reason why we females adore you--------sons and all--------Happy toy fighting-------Helen in manchester,England.

 
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Ides315
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2002, 19:21:51 »

DISAGREE WITH ME WILL YOU!!! I'LL, I'LL....

have to go along with what you explained, that is pretty much what I was trying to say http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_tongue.gif" border=0>.

Helen, (and all) if you really want to have a good laugh, see the standup comedy act "defending the caveman". Does a pretty good job of nailing down why the sexes act like they do. And don't laugh at us to hard, it is not always toy swords we have to use to protect others....

Best to all

 
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helen
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2002, 21:04:30 »

Hi Ides 315,thanks for the input but I just want to assure you that my laughter towards you all was 100% sweet and kind-----------I Bow down to you all in respect to the oh so wonderfull way you wrote--------NOT ALWAYS TOY SWORDS---------How true....also defending others---..Remember  this though--------not all females are Feminists and out for equal rights, I for one would gladly cook  a meal for a man who held open the door as I entered a room, I would iron his clothes as he walked our dog in the cold rain--------MMMMMMMMMMaybe that is the secret to my happy 15 year marriage,after all to me a man in the kitchen would turn me off--------unless he was eating a meal cooked by me.
I am 100% from the old school-------I like it that way,at 31 years old none of my female freinds agree with me,after all it is unfashionable to be as I am. I suppose I may get some backlash of other females for writing this,so be it.
If you think about it ------could my idea of a man be sexist to you?,or some others--------I think may-be so.
all the best-------Helen.

 
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kakkarot
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2002, 22:33:37 »

hello, helen. i am a bit confused when you said "the male is a species who does not want to become -----------------THE understood". can you elaborate a bit please?

and as to being "old school": well hey, i favour chivelry (spelling?) over the arrogant antics of the boneheads of today.

and to ides: oh, i didn't know that i was elaborating for you. darn, i'll start a fight next time Wink  . just kidding.

~kakkarot

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Ides315
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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2002, 00:52:46 »

Hey, Helen.

Tell your friends to give it a try http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>. Seriously. Maybe they should try equal time. I agree with kakkarot that chivalry is good (and fun). And, maybe you are a chauvinist, but I think that is OK for anybody, as long as you are not a chauvinist pig (spelling). There are reasons we do what we do. I don't think any one should knock anything until they try it.

As far as your marriage, congrats. That is a good feat in this day and age. Working on 10 years over here. I get the majority of the manly stuff, but I also cook dinner (very well I might add) and do chores. But I married a Tom girl (on purpose) so it works. Besides, when I was a bachelor, making dinner was a great way to get a girl in your house and comfortable, and I give a mean massage. Learn something here other guys.

kakkarot, I have no doubt you will manage to pick a fight. You would let me down if it was any different ;-> Just be careful, man.

Best, all

 
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2002, 15:26:14 »

Hi Kakkarot,sorry Karkkarot about----"The male does not want to become the understood"-------remark , it is Just a joke between myself and my hubbie,you see I am convinced that my fasination with my fella is as it is because I DO not understand how he works----------therefore I never bore of him because there is always something in him to explore--------I KNOW that you realy did not want me to share that with you ,but Hey! That's me all over-----------Thanks for the Reply,
All the best Helen.

Hi Ides315,Chauvinist, I am Most definatly not , I Just have my Life the way it suits me, I live my Life with-out Judging other peoples preferences and what I wrote Last was nothing more than an expression of my self,I have a very Beutifull 15 year old daughter who would rather die than Live the way of Life that suits me , the point being,every soul that inhabits this Earth is as individual and as unique as a single snow-flake that falls each winter.
AS for "I do not think that any-one should knock anything  untill they try it", Well, I  definatly agree with that and I definatly was not knocking any-thing or any body.
Your Lady is what you referred to as a Tom Girl,that is the way you love her,
my Gentleman is what I would describe as  my Idea of the Ideal man,yet you think me Chauvanist for my choice of Life partner where-as I have no label to stick on you , despite my personal preferences in a man , this only reaches as far as my Life partner,If all men and woman were the same or even just a Little too simalar this world would be a pathetic place.
------------Sorry for going on and on and on---------ALL THE BEST Ides315,-------------no offence intended and thanks for your reply-------Helen.


 
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Ides315
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« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2002, 17:43:50 »

Hi, helen.

You misunderstand me. I meant no offense by assigning you a "label". You like the traditional lifestyle setup, which is great. It is mostly what we ascribe to also. It was not intended to be any kind of dirugatory (spelling?) remark in the chauvinist thing. I consider myself one. I hold doors, help "damsels in distress", paid when single, and do the sweaty work. I think you took chauvinist the way I meant chauvinist pig.

We are all unique, and yet many of us resemble many others that have chosen the same course, before, or now. The dont knock it until you try it was for your girlfriends, not you. Sorry to have offended you, it was not my intent. By all means continue with what works for you. I think the maritial secret is every couple finding what works for them personally.

I watched things come full circle with my mom. A feminist (sort of) in her younger years, by the time she hit forties, she was quite happy to stay home and cook and clean, relieved actually to have someone take care of her. And she was happy to take care of him.

Again, sorry to have offended you, more carefully chosen words on my part would have been more appropriate.

Best to all

 
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