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Spero112

Hello, first off let me say that I am Catholic and do not prescribe to "new-age" philosophy or practice, though I did for a few years. Not that I want to start a religious debate or anything of the sort, believe what you will and I will do the same.  :D  I came here because I can't find a suitable Catholic site that addresses my issue in an accurate way.

I've been projecting since I was little. It comes naturally, though often I don't realize my exit as much as my return entry. Anyway, since my teens, I've had more negative astral experiences than positive. For many years, I usually "ran away" or forced my physical self awake when I would come in contact with anything unfriendly. But recently, this past year, for whatever reason, I've somehow changed. I like to think it's God strengthening me. Now, I keep cool...a strange calm commanding comes over me when in confrontation. I've been quite successful in "telling" these things to basically get lost.

However, sometimes it's easier than others. I've come across some very strong entities, one time one actually grabbed my astral self from my bed and threw me up against my bedroom wall and held me there as if choking me which was particularly strange because from my experience the strongest ones, like that one, that I've come in contact with have been invisible. Like a clear cloud of forceful energy. Most I see look like regular people, but I spot them by the negative feeling I get from them. Anyway, when I was held up against the wall, I could feel a battle of wills going on. I remember smiling and announcing that I love God and then it was over.

I jokingly think of myself as an astral exorcist. Though, how far off the mark I am, I'm not so sure! There've been nights where I've had multiple confrontations. Those really drain me, but sometimes after an easy victory I actually feel energized... I wonder if I'm occasionally leaching energy the way they do.

Now, onto my question. Why? Why do I have so many of these confrontations? I don't consider myself to be a negative person where the whole like-attracts-like would come into play. I certainly don't go looking for trouble, it just seems to wonder right up to me. All the times I can think of, I was minding my own business. So, I was wondering if any of you might have any ideas or comments on this? I'm looking for some kind of sensible answers. I've tried asking this at other forums and have been disappointed by psychological/pseudo-psychological answers or complete fluff-bunny magic-oriented  feel the love answers.  Positive thinking & confronting my inner-fears, gems/charms, whatever, do nothing to help. I've tried.  I'm no longer really looking to stop it, now I'm just trying to figuring out why it's happening?

Thanks,

Spero

CaCoDeMoN

Hmmm... Maybe the God wants to show you that he doesn't want you to project? I've read in Old Testament that people should not engage in any witchcraft type practices, and Astral Projection is certainly an witchcraft practice...
MEAT=MURDER.

GorillaBait

I don't know why.  I've wondered about those sorts of things myself.  Some people seem to have lots of confrontations in the astral.  I don't know you, but maybe it has to do with your personality?  Maybe it's just a calling.  Who can tell the final truth about the nature of astral reality, sure as heck not myself.  Maybe you really are called to be an astral exorcist, or maybe it's just battling with parts of yourself.

Telos

The psychological model says that what is responsible is your primitive "reptilian brain," which is responsible for the knee-jerk "fight or flight" response. Such dreams occur because electrical signals are being randomly generated by your brain stem, and they just happen to flow along the pathways that deal with confrontation.

I was raised Catholic and only recently stopped going to mass. I need some time away, since it's clear that the Church cannot help me in such matters. Like you said, there really is no place for Catholics to talk about this stuff. I met with a couple of priests, asking them for guidance on my profound mystical experiences, and all they had to say was, "yeah, there is a strong mystical tradition in Catholicism..." and then they followed with noticeable apprehension about my mental state, "but, you know, they're just experiences..."

Well, priests just do what they gotta do I guess. ;)

Tyciol

Quote from: CaCoDeMoNHmmm... Maybe the God wants to show you that he doesn't want you to project? I've read in Old Testament that people should not engage in any witchcraft type practices, and Astral Projection is certainly an witchcraft practice...
Yup. Pick one: Jesus or AP, can't have both.

Mick

Quote from: Tyciol
Quote from: CaCoDeMoNHmmm... Maybe the God wants to show you that he doesn't want you to project? I've read in Old Testament that people should not engage in any witchcraft type practices, and Astral Projection is certainly an witchcraft practice...
Yup. Pick one: Jesus or AP, can't have both.
OK, I will bite: Why is AP certainly a witchcraft practice?
Jesus and old testament  :?

Quote from: Spero112I jokingly think of myself as an astral exorcist. Though, how far off the mark I am, I'm not so sure! There've been nights where I've had multiple confrontations. Those really drain me, but sometimes after an easy victory I actually feel energized... I wonder if I'm occasionally leaching energy the way they do.
This could simply be due to surplus (discarded)  energy flowing into you post some activity, this is something that can be seen from a healing perspective, energy will flow into the the recipient simply because due to being depleted there is space for it to flow in.

Quote from: Spero112Now, onto my question. Why? Why do I have so many of these confrontations? I don't consider myself to be a negative person where the whole like-attracts-like would come into play. I certainly don't go looking for trouble, it just seems to wonder right up to me.
Likes attract, others say opposites attract. Many will tie down the whole experience to usually being some sort of one on one scenario but my observations are that it is often more extended than that. There is an idea that I read recently, it is that humans as organic beings have simply stumbled into someone else's space psychically and some of us notice the machinations that have resulted.
Mick

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Tyciol

Quote from: MickOK, I will bite: Why is AP certainly a witchcraft practice?
Jesus and old testament  :?
It's trying to use supernatural powers that aren't natural to you. Technology is crafted with your hands, this is using your mind to separate your soul from your body. Any astral projection or dream control you do should generally be god doing it for you or telling you to do it, not you doing it alone.

Mick

Quote from: TyciolIt's trying to use supernatural powers that aren't natural to you. Technology is crafted with your hands, this is using your mind to separate your soul from your body. Any astral projection or dream control you do should generally be god doing it for you or telling you to do it, not you doing it alone.
That is an interesting opinion but is it witchcraft? Most that I encounter tend to the view that these are natural abilities somewhat neglected. That is the view that I take.

Afraid that I don't follow the 'Technology is crafted with your hands,' reference. I would say that human technology is also the product of the mind but I may be missing your point here.
Mick

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Nita

Hello Mick
  Astral Projection is not necessarily a practice of witchcraft. Any talents we have in this life are God given and as such should not be treated as an excuse that you can not do both.
  If God or any of the other forces did not want someone to use our free will choices we would not be doing it.
      Nita
www.astralhealer.com
www.hermeticuniversityonline.com

Tyciol

God wouldn't want you sinning or worshipping Satan, but it still happens, so that reasoning is totally illogical.

Supposedly you can do whatever you want because god gave you free will, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do and not a sin. Jesus will forgive you for it, of course, but it's hard to feel genuinely repentant for your sins when you're trying to play the system.

As for a natural ability, if it were natural it wouldn't be called the supernatural, and it would probably be mentioned in the bible. The only psychic things in there come from god or demons.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, we can carry this over to the christian forums if you like, there's a post like that over there.

Mick

Quote from: NitaHello Mick
  Astral Projection is not necessarily a practice of witchcraft. Any talents we have in this life are God given and as such should not be treated as an excuse that you can not do both.
  If God or any of the other forces did not want someone to use our free will choices we would not be doing it.
Nita
These of course are the points that I am making :)

Quote from: TyciolGod wouldn't want you sinning or worshipping Satan, but it still happens, so that reasoning is totally illogical.
If you belief that AP and its ilk are sins then I guess that that analogy will work for you, my initial question was regarding 'is AP witchcraft' re. CaCoDeMoNs posting, Nita concurs with my understanding of the terminology, perhaps the word witchcraft was being used in some generic manner?

QuoteAs for a natural ability, if it were natural it wouldn't be called the supernatural, and it would probably be mentioned in the bible. The only psychic things in there come from god or demons.

This is just a term that has been derived by humanity, it could equally be called PSI, remote viewing or many other terms. 'from god or demons' some blame the aliens, others cite electric shocks but I myself will stay with the natural ability explanation for now.  

Re. god or demons, I would say I believe I have seen such abilities being exploited by entities particularly when sufficient care is not being taken.
Mick

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Tyciol

I wish I read more of the bible, then I could find something to tell you that it's wrong. Something like miracles being only of God and not of self or outside force... eh my memory goes...

Sin or Witchcraft doesn't matter in the slightest, both are equally bad.

Hockeyplr

OK, how is astral projection witchcraft? Why would God give us something he didn't intend for us to use? God is loving, are you saying he would send something to harm someone emotionally. And even so, would he let the thing he sent LOSE?! whoa deja vu..... Anyway, what I am trying to say is that God wouldn't harm us. I know he isn't vengeful like the bible says. Did you know the bible was written 400 years after Jesus died? talk to Constantine (the emperor) about it. If he were vengeful, he would have killed us all already! Do you have any idea how many sins we commit? Ha ha, it's a wonder we are still here. I personally believe you are wrong, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. And to answer the actual question, maybe you are meant to cleanse these entities, turn them around, though I doubt it. Maybe you have been holding something in for a long time, an old rivalry, someone who you disliked, and it is coming out to tell you. I don't know, I am probably not very reliable, considering I have yet to AP. But I do like to think I am...oh darn forgot the word. Oh well! Good luck dealing with whatever you are dealing with!

Silver Incubus

Isn't it possible and probbable that John's revelations were an astral experience looking into the future (that is for those who believe the bible)
"Life is an Illusion that is painfully real" - me

Nita

Hello Everyone
  The best thoughts I can give upon this is that everything everywhere are of the energies of God. We are all part of the mind of God which is incomprehensible. This includes everything negative and positive. You can read the Kybalion and find out the principles for this. It is a ebook upon the web.
  Anyway if you use only personal power it can lead you into mistakes and fooling yourself through wrong choices and decisions. If you live your life with love for God and faith in him then the energies you mainly use will be the energies of God which on our level are just leftovers from the higher levels of his mind. The energies go down. The Jewish Kabbalah is my reference for this point of view.
  It means anything we do is because of God in one way or another. He does not force us to do anything but by our choices and decisions we freely decide what we put into our lives.
  The bad choices are part of our work to overcome our evil inclinations and learn to make the right choices for us and our lives in the fashion of what God wants us to become on our Path.
  It means that God did not tell people not to AP because he said in the bible  that his children would have talents that were not explainable. The talents are God given and if astral projection, seeing the future, and anything else are listed in different words then God does not reject them.
  The bible has been re-written and changed according to the perceptions of the times in which it was done. The ten commandments are the rules to adhere to and everything else has a lot of statements which can be conflicting and confusing due to all of the editing.
  Any further comments and I suggest it goes to the bible section. None of this is evil in itself as much as what makes it evil would be what we do with it and our actions. The bible mentions that your children shall be seers. that you can cast out devils, that you can prophesy. It mentions things Tyciol so the main prohibition is against being a sorceress which used to be a poisoner.
      Nita
www.astralhealer.com
www.hermeticuniversityonline.com

Ais

Perhaps I'm being simplistic here, but I thought witchcraft was the art of casting spells, i.e. of influencing the conduct of other people or entities through the psychic/spiritual realm. I've been in New Age shops and noticed books there which describe the kind of spells one can do. I'm not sure what to think about this. It seems to me that the kind of person who finds casting spells attractive is basically someone who wishes to exert control over others and the environment. Am I being unfair on those who cast spells?

Occasionally I have come across people who use psychological tricks to make me feel vulnerable and drained. Again, the issue is one of power. I think they, in their own way, are casting spells too.

Perhaps astral projection can be considered witchcraft or not depending on your motives for doing it. If you've always done it, if it comes to you as naturally as dreaming, I don't see how it can be considered witchcraft. 'Craft' by definition is something learned.

Ais

Nita

Hello Ais
  Witchcraft or any form of magic can also be used for to help or hurt. The important thing is to remember what is right for you and making the correct decisions. You are correct in that astral projecting is not a big part of any magic except for what you can do on the astral plane. Magic is manipulation of forces through ritual or repetitive actions. Prayer is manipulation of forces through supplication using rituals or repetitive actions. Religions uses a lot of different methods which would be considered a ritual in witchcraft.
  Spell casters do affect their environment and themselves. Control comes in many different styles as does intimidation. I know many witches who help others and do good. It is what you have experienced and what you believe.
   Nita
www.astralhealer.com
www.hermeticuniversityonline.com