News:

Welcome to the Astral Pulse 2.0!

If you're looking for your Journal, I've created a central sub forum for them here: https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/dream-and-projection-journals/



Do they Exist, or Not?

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MisterJingo

Quote from: questionI think it's pretty foolish to say "they are only thought-forms." The people that do this are just taking the extreme they're fighting against, to the opposite extreme.

Why? First, because everyone has a different set of experiences, so just because you've experienced only one side of the coin doesn't mean another side of the coin doesn't exist. It's like people who claim "there is no such thing as god". For that to be an accurate statement, that person would have to know and understand everything possible so he could point out what isn't there. Quite egotistical.

I personally don't know the answer, but IMO anyone who states one way or the other EXPLICITLY is probably wrong, due to the only fact of reality I would admit to "knowing": everything is possible.

Please state a single post in this thread which explicitly states all negs are thought forms. You are ranting at yourself here. No one has written anything like that. I stated I think the majority of 'negs' are self induced, and I conceded negs might exist. Twisting words and arguing against the ensuing skewed interpretation is pointless.
The whole point was, people are screaming 'negs' at anyone who has near any problem, and they are ignoring conventional ways of treating potential medical problems. It's getting quite silly IMHO.

Quote
Here is a strong argument I will state for "negs are independent of our thought":
Are there people out there on the physical earth that like to hurt other people? If you answer yes, why would you be so opposed to the idea that there are "similar people" in a different dimension of existence, or whatever it could be called.

Yes there might be such people but that logical conclusion is pointless. People on physical earth can be independently viewed by anyone who is here, and unless the viewer has a severe inability to judge emotion then each can state such a thing as: "Based on that person's history of hurting people, we can safely say he must enjoy hurting people, I can see that from the evidence presented".
The astral equivalent would be:
"That potential negative independent entity that the person with the problems can see (but I can't and there can never be evidence of its existence), this being which exists in a place we cannot see or prove the existence of might like trying to hurt people".
That's very different.
Once again: I am not saying negs don't exist, just that every many and his dog is supposedly being battled by whole armies of negs if you believe everything you see on the net, and I find that very unlikely. I've also experienced directly a lot of stuff I've seen classed as neg attacks and it wasn't a neg causing it for me. These things had a mundane medical reason behind them.

Quote
IMHO, they both exist. But I'm never more than 99.9% sure on anything...

I agree. But as with all things in the astral, even two people seeing the exact same thing at the exact same time would have completely different memories of the experience. This makes gaining any form of proof very difficult (impossible?).

MisterJingo

Quote from: question
"You can only prove an existence, you cannot prove a non-existence."

Exactly, which means you cannot say something "doesn't exist" and be sure of it. If one seriously argues "XYZ doesn't exist" or worse "XYZ can't exist" then it just shows a closed perception.

Of course it doesn't. Certain things are so far outside the realms of even potential possibility that they can be discounted to all extents and purposes.
Please tell me what possible good it will do for me to harbour such a belief as my Dog is really God and he reads my mind so I have to think good things, because if I ever think the wrong thing he'll destroy my soul.
personally, holding such a belief would be pretty pointless, and perhaps even detrimental to my long term mental health. So I would discount it. But I guess this makes me closed minded.
Or perhaps prejudging people on narrow criteria shows a closed perception? Nothing is ever black and white.

Quote
What I don't understand is how people can say the idea of "negs" is "ridiculous" when obviously there are people out there in "physical reality" that would care to harm you. Now why would it be absurd to assume in other "dimensions" there aren't the same things? Absolute wishful thinking perhaps?

comparisons with the astral and physical will never hold as they are such radically different places. Certain small areas of the astral might maintain a structure familiar to the human mindset, but that's because of its proximity to the human mind – and our lack of knowledge. We perceive new knowledge through that which we already possess (human biased).

Quote
I would understand if people said "they might exist externally, but you have more power over yourself than they do.." but most people say either yes or no to their existence. Perhaps it's not so black and white? Yet even if someone believed "we" have more power over "them," that still doesn't mean the possibility of a still more powerful external being is outlandish. For example on the astral dynamics forums it seems to be the general belief that "negs" do exist but we have power over them, or we can defeat them. Yet the possibility of more powerful beings that can completely destroy us is not ruled out, in fact if we are to believe some cases, there may be beings that can indeed completely rip us apart and leave us helpless.

But the above is pure 100% belief. And it doesn't explain why some people seem to be incapacitated for just taking a whiff of projection or using a Ouija board and others who project regularly, take risks, have frequently been involved in many occult rituals and taken copious amounts of drugs are neg free. I mention drugs as I have had people PM me saying taking drugs and drinking makes holes in the aura which are filled by negs.
What would be interesting is if people who are being attacked and people who aren't could be psychologically profiled and see if there is any correlation between conventional medical conditions and outlook and neg attack.

Quote
I think it's good to be open to possibility instead of starting a religion against what one perceives to be a religion.

I agree with this 100%, but you are on the side of the religion in this argument. The status quo of neg attacks is to just keep your mouth shut if you have different opinions, as if your opinion differs from the norm you are attacked (like has happened in this thread and by PM). My only view was not all perceived neg attacks are neg attacks, and peoples belief in a possible neg attack can reinforce the negativity (problems) they are experiencing (in the same way an optimistic person seems to have better health and more happier outcomes then a pessimist). I even conceded negs might exist and this still caused people to attack me as I added a slight doubt to their belief system.
Woe betide the person who ever states outright that no negs exist.

question

MisterJingo,

Why are you taking this as something directed towards you? I didn't direct any of what I said towards you specifically. I was just stating things based on what I have seen here at astral pulse: many people outright deny that "negs, independent of personal thought," exist. Look at the topic of the thread, "do they exist, or not?" This topic is here and people have said it's beating a dead horse because the topic has existed in many forms here over time; essentially my message was that it's foolish to deny a possibility and act on that (often against someone else's perception). As for you saying that some things can be considered impossible, I tend to disagree; even though they seem impossible to some people, that is only because people are input to believe certain things are "possible" and "not possible" when in fact all is possible. Perhaps to you it is impossible that <insert most outrageous thing you can think of here>, but as I see it, everything and anything is possible. I am not on the side of any religion, unless that religion is "deny ignorance (limited perception)" in which I suppose I am a part of. But that's about it...

I am not attacking you; I never said armies of negs must be battled to maintain health, etc. so why defend against that like I did say that?

I could argue all day but essentially I've made my point, however you choose to see it...

MisterJingo

Quote from: questionMisterJingo,

Why are you taking this as something directed towards you? I didn't direct any of what I said towards you specifically. I was just stating things based on what I have seen here at astral pulse: many people outright deny that "negs, independent of personal thought," exist. Look at the topic of the thread, "do they exist, or not?" This topic is here and people have said it's beating a dead horse because the topic has existed in many forms here over time; essentially my message was that it's foolish to deny a possibility and act on that (often against someone else's perception).

I only took it as directed at me as you first wrote:

Quote
I think it's pretty foolish to say "they are only thought-forms." The people that do this are just taking the extreme they're fighting against, to the opposite extreme.

And then attacked it in your next posts. As I was the only one who wrote anything similar to this in the whole thread, I presumed it was directed at me/what I wrote. And I've had people pm me saying very similar things.
Sorry if this was not the case.

Quote
As for you saying that some things can be considered impossible, I tend to disagree; even though they seem impossible to some people, that is only because people are input to believe certain things are "possible" and "not possible" when in fact all is possible. Perhaps to you it is impossible that <insert most outrageous thing you can think of here>, but as I see it, everything and anything is possible. I am not on the side of any religion, unless that religion is "deny ignorance (limited perception)" in which I suppose I am a part of. But that's about it...

If you truely believe the above. Just answer me one question:

Why do babies not fly out of their mothers wombs or fly around their homes, or teleport around the earth, or shape shift etc? babies have not been indoctrinated in any belief system, all is possible to their world view, yet they act like the rest of us. Following the exact same rules as us belief-striken adults (yet they haven't been taught these rules of the physical).
The reason I chose a child is because in our 'physical' world they are the closest thing to unbiased innocence we can find.

Although if we think about it, animals, which generally think on an instinctual level never do any amazing acts outside the bounds of their physical limitations either.

I used to believe the impossible is possible (ignoring the contradiction of words) yet such examples as above have shown me this is not really the case. If you think it is, just show me a single example of where the impossible has indeed been possible (I'm yet to find a single example).

question

Actually,

just because a possibility exists doesn't mean we know about it and know how to comprehend and apply it...

I didn't say "you can fly if you think you can" or "you can fly if you aren't told that you can't fly"

Is it possible that we're all flying right now and don't realize it? yeah..

perception is quite limited,

it's not really something that can be logically explained, because the infinite is outside the bounds of logic...logic is a set of bounds in fact....

Nay


question


Syncro

This has gotten quite far off topic, can anyone here give me some examples of neg attacks at least and show their logic as to why they had the neg attack? We've had one individual do so already, but I would like to hear more and perhaps hear some people try to discredit, though undoubtedly that will lead to fighting, but I can hope it won't.

Syncro

Quote from: runlolaMaybe you should try the 'other' website. You won't find many people
posting about neg attacks here.... click here

Hmm, seems to be a mixed enough bunch to me, judging from early and latest posts. Nevertheless, seeing 4 pages here is impressive enough. If anyone so happens to comment I will be here.

MisterJingo

Now here's something very interesting i just saw posted else where.
There is a condition called Morgellons Disease and here are its syptoms:

Quote
It seems there is a condition known as Morgellons' Disease that is of an obscure nature and that affects thousands of people. Here are the symptoms:

1. Crawling sensations both within and on the skin surface. Often conceptualized by the patient as "bugs moving, stinging or biting" intermittently. Besides the general dermis, may also involve the scalp, nares, ear canal, and body hair or hair follicles.

2. Fatigue significant enough to interfere with the activities for daily living.

3. Cognitive difficulties, including measurable short term memory and attention deficit, as well as difficulty processing thoughts correctly. Described by patients as "brain fog".

4. Skin lesions, both spontaneously appearing and self-generated, with intense itching. The former may initially appear as "urticarial-like", or as "pimple-like" with or without a white center. The latter appear as linear or "picking" excoriations. Even when not self-generated, lesions often progress to open wounds that heal abnormally and usually incompletely. (e.g., heal very slowly with discolored epidermis or seal over with a thick gelatinous outer layer.)

5. "Fibers" are reported in and on skin lesions. They are generally described by patients as white, but clinicians also report seeing blue, green, red, and black fibers, that fluoresce when viewed under ultraviolet light (Wood's lamp). Objects described as "granules", similar in size and shape to sand grains, can occasionally be removed from either broken or intact skin by physicians, but are commonly reported by patients. Patients report seeing black "specks" or "dots" on or in their skin, as well as unusual 1-3 mm "fuzzballs" both in their lesions and on (or falling from) intact skin.

6. Neuropsychiatric symptoms and signs, ranging from mood or personality changes to diagnosed disorders including Attention Deficit Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and occasionally frank psychosis. Temporal relationship to skin lesion onset is not known

Other commonly reported observations:

Quote
1. Most patients will have sought care from multiple medical care providers. A large number will have been diagnosed with Delusional Parasitosis likely because of the juxtaposition of unexplained skin lesions and sensations and psychiatric overlay. Unfortunately, almost none will have received an appropriate diagnostic physical examination (particularly a microscopic or biopsy examination of lesions), but will have been diagnosed by history alone with grossly incomplete observation.

2. Most of these patients feel abandoned by the traditional medical care system and have sought alternative care providers or have self medicated, seriously compounding an already difficult medical situation

These are from the Morgellons Research Foundation website.

More information on this condition can be found here:

http://www.morgellons.org/

This might in part at least give a scientific foundation to a lot of what is classed as neg activity. I know I've had many people PM me stating such symptoms as proof they are indeed being attacked.

I would suggest people read the site, and if suffering from these symptoms get intouch with Morgellons support group.

I know what it's like to suffer from a seemingly unknown condition. I experienced something for 6 years before I got it recognised as HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder). And I've come a hell of a long way since I've been able to put a name to my condition.

Perhaps neg activity might play some part in such conditions. We don't know, but at least it's been recognised - and thats the first step in understanding its cause and finding a cure.

Syncro

Quote from: MisterJingoNow here's something very interesting i just saw posted else where.
There is a condition called Morgellons Disease and here are its syptoms:

Quote
It seems there is a condition known as Morgellons' Disease that is of an obscure nature and that affects thousands of people. Here are the symptoms:

1. Crawling sensations both within and on the skin surface. Often conceptualized by the patient as "bugs moving, stinging or biting" intermittently. Besides the general dermis, may also involve the scalp, nares, ear canal, and body hair or hair follicles.

2. Fatigue significant enough to interfere with the activities for daily living.

3. Cognitive difficulties, including measurable short term memory and attention deficit, as well as difficulty processing thoughts correctly. Described by patients as "brain fog".

4. Skin lesions, both spontaneously appearing and self-generated, with intense itching. The former may initially appear as "urticarial-like", or as "pimple-like" with or without a white center. The latter appear as linear or "picking" excoriations. Even when not self-generated, lesions often progress to open wounds that heal abnormally and usually incompletely. (e.g., heal very slowly with discolored epidermis or seal over with a thick gelatinous outer layer.)

5. "Fibers" are reported in and on skin lesions. They are generally described by patients as white, but clinicians also report seeing blue, green, red, and black fibers, that fluoresce when viewed under ultraviolet light (Wood's lamp). Objects described as "granules", similar in size and shape to sand grains, can occasionally be removed from either broken or intact skin by physicians, but are commonly reported by patients. Patients report seeing black "specks" or "dots" on or in their skin, as well as unusual 1-3 mm "fuzzballs" both in their lesions and on (or falling from) intact skin.

6. Neuropsychiatric symptoms and signs, ranging from mood or personality changes to diagnosed disorders including Attention Deficit Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and occasionally frank psychosis. Temporal relationship to skin lesion onset is not known

Other commonly reported observations:

Quote
1. Most patients will have sought care from multiple medical care providers. A large number will have been diagnosed with Delusional Parasitosis likely because of the juxtaposition of unexplained skin lesions and sensations and psychiatric overlay. Unfortunately, almost none will have received an appropriate diagnostic physical examination (particularly a microscopic or biopsy examination of lesions), but will have been diagnosed by history alone with grossly incomplete observation.

2. Most of these patients feel abandoned by the traditional medical care system and have sought alternative care providers or have self medicated, seriously compounding an already difficult medical situation

These are from the Morgellons Research Foundation website.

More information on this condition can be found here:

http://www.morgellons.org/

This might in part at least give a scientific foundation to a lot of what is classed as neg activity. I know I've had many people PM me stating such symptoms as proof they are indeed being attacked.

I would suggest people read the site, and if suffering from these symptoms get intouch with Morgellons support group.

I know what it's like to suffer from a seemingly unknown condition. I experienced something for 6 years before I got it recognised as HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder). And I've come a hell of a long way since I've been able to put a name to my condition.

Perhaps neg activity might play some part in such conditions. We don't know, but at least it's been recognised - and thats the first step in understanding its cause and finding a cure.

I haven't read the site in full yet, but so far good stuff :) this seems to be sound evidence.

Rob

I have posted these experience a few times in various places but not for a while and not in one place. Since it has been asked for, there is a lot of discussion on these topics recently, and because only one other person has posted theirs, I am going to tell you about my experiences. U might find it interesting and revealing, I hope so. Sorry if its a bit long. I got a lot to tell  :smile:

Experience #1:
About oooh maybe 2-3 years ago now, when in my uni holiday I was at the parents place in the Falklands. I woke up in the wee hours (about 3) and saw a dark black figure standing at the bottom of my bed. At first, being slightly sleepy, I thought it was my dear (very much alive) mother. Sit up in bed and "Mum?" says me. It only took half a second for the reality to hit me. Definitely not mum! Lie back down again. Heart starts pounding. Hhhmmm what do I do now? 5 or so seconds later this thing starts to fade out, leaving only the outline, and then a few seconds later it was gone completely. I could not make out any features, since there was only the slightest variation in its black-ness. It was about 5 1/2 feet tall. I then got up, turned on the light, and - still slightly unsure what it was I had just seen - decided that, if it was a deceased and lost spirit, I should pray for it to find the light. Did this, started receiving some very nasty telepathic communication - "f**k your God", to be precise. Went round in/through my head about 5 or so times. Not the sort of thing my mind thinks of on its own....I might add......anyway this confirmed my suspicion. I think I did a light banishing ritual (LBRP) on the room, blessed some water, threw it liberally around the place, and moved to the spare bedroom to finish my nights slumber.
Further to this experience, before I woke up and saw the neg (I am not going to beat around the bush here....), my Dad was having a baaad nights sleep. Having difficulty getting to sleep, and when he did, its wasn't for long, as he woke up with nasty dreams in his head. After my experience, it got even worst. In one of his dreams I was there, and I was possessed, jabbering away in weird languages. That's the only dream he told me he could remember, but i got the feeling he remembered more but didn't want to give me the skinny on them. He was having such a bad nights sleep he oh so nearly got up and moved to....the spare room....where I was sleeping. Fortunately for both of us he didn't attempt this very dangerous option!!!!


Experience #2:
Age 5, for many nights in a row, I was woken up (although i dont ever remember waking or going to sleep), to see black shadows walking past the foot of my bed. One disappeared in the wall on the right, another appeared from wall on left. Continuous procession of them. I was absolutely TERRIFIED in a way that I simply cannot describe (ooooh!! CLICK CLICK CLICK another coin just dropped into place....realisation....woot for me!!!). You would have to experience this to understand. Its not just a personal fear, as you will see in exp#3 in a second  :grin:. Oh and add to this complete bodily paralysis. Not a pleasant experience for a 5 year old to go through, no? And not the sort of thing you would expect a very young, pure, mind to create for itself hhmmmm?? In fact, if you think I created this in my own reality and made it so, you've got issues.... :wink:


Experience #3:
Second year uni, I wake up and (cant remember this quite so well now, at least the order stuff happened, but this is what I think it was), I was sleeping in after my GF had left a couple of hours before (mmm).....er anyway. So I wake up, still half asleep though, and hear what sounded like someone saying "you know something we dont" (was sleeping over my running water thang....oh yes....). Then I saw, and it wasnt clear, but the best description is something like a green cycling water bottle suspended in the air above my bed, around 2 foot up above my knees. As soon as I concentrate on this a sudden and powerful wave of full bodily paralysis, accompanied by a sensation of absolute terror, swept up over my body starting at the feet. Fortunately I knew what to do, and immediately jerked my body slightly to the side. This tiny movement was enough to break the hold, and that was that, end of attack.


Experience #4:
Experimenting with one of Mr Bruceys PPSD techniques, one night I decided to draw all the sacred symbols over my body. Just to see what would happen. Next day I go to my Grandmas and meet my Dad in the evening. Turns out he woke up that morning with his arms and legs covered in rashes. Never had anything even a little bit like this before. I had washed the symbols off by 11ish, and similarly my lunch time the rashes had mostly disappeared from his body too. Embarrassing for him, since he was interviewing people for a job that morning LOL.


Experience #5:
Using Bruceys Core Image Removal technique, I was searching my mind for subconscious images relating to my attacks when I was young (#2). Found one that was like a learning mask/face. Applied technique. Sudden and instantly felt a weird energy like buzzing over my entire body, except unlike any other energy sensation I have felt this was spontaneous all over, and the feel was different too (usually with energy stuff the feeling takes time to spread with the movement of energy). 10 minutes later I did the same, this time got same result except the buzzing was limited to my upper body. Next time, nothing.


Experience #6:
I cant remember exactly what technique I was applying this time, I think it was the circle/cross over mole for mole removal. It gave me many of the feelings people are often supposed to get, according to article (ie sickness, stomach cramps, and er etc). Which could be argued to be psychosomatic. Except my dear father got exactly the same symptoms, while on holiday thousands of miles away. They thought he had food poisoning....oops!



Analysis:

OK well I am gonna have to refer back to a convo I had with RB on this, he said that the connections from me to the neg appear to go through my father, like lines of force. This fits with my experience. I should add that my dad had similar to #2 experiences when he was younger, too..... which he rationalised away as figments of his own imagination, I guess because he didn't want to consider the alternatives  :roll:  - understandable, but not a healthy option.
All the neg removal techniques I applied, I had no expectation that they would work, and some of the things that happened were very odd to me, in that I could not have expected or predicted the outcome. The weird energy buzzing, the powerful effects on my father, were all entirely unexpected, and very telling. Further, in #1 where my dad had a reaaally bad nights sleep this started even before my encounter and while I was asleep, this is further strong proof that's its not all in or a creation of my head, and directly relates exp's #4,5,6 to neg activity. Ie the techniques I used caused knock on effects in him, in the same way as the neg effects were hitting him that night I actually saw it.
The taking exp #2 into account, when I was very young, we see that this could not possibly have been the creation of my own mind. I was a balanced and stable child, this is simply not an option. Further, it ticks all the boxes for a neg attack, and was effectively when they were inserting the control mechanisms into me. And the similarity to what I saw in the Falklands is definitely there (dark shadow like figure past the bottom of my bed). Exp #3 with the voice, the vision, and then the sudden wave of paralysis and fear, again, is not something my mind would create. The suddenness, the strength of the attack, and the other weirdnesses immediately put it onto another level than the sort of fear I create with my mind. Also, this and exp #2 are the only times I have ever experienced full bodily paralysis, and both were accompanied by visuals, neg "tags", and overwhelming fear.
Need I go on? I could, but that's enough, this post is long already.

What all this paints is a very convincing and varied picture of neg activity, from when I was very young, to relatively recently, and including and directly relating to my fathers experiences. From my own perspective, it is impossible for me to think of any other possible explanation than the fact the negative entities are real, nasty, and can have definite objective effects upon us.

From you, the readers, perspective, you are left with 3 options:
1- I am telling the truth, negs are real and exist beyond creations of the subconscious.
2- I am lying (I am not, btw, and I hope my long term participation in this forum and the one before it, not to mention mod status, speaks for itself)
3- That my experiences were somehow the creation of my own mind. Good luck on that one!!! Feel free to try though, I could do with a good chuckle :lol:

And if you got this far, respect!! Hope you found it worth your time.

Rob
(!!!Formerly known as Inguma!!!)
You are the Alpha and the Omega. You are vaster than the universe and more powerful than a flaring supernova. You are truly incredible!!

Nay

Quote from: rob2- I am lying (I am not, btw, and I hope my long term participation in this forum and the one before it, not to mention mod status, speaks for itself)
Didn't help out my arguments.

Are you saying that Robert said that you are having neg problems because of your father's past problems?

I see now that my thoughts and beliefs are no longer welcomed on any forum.... I don't know what is happening but the negative side of things are prevailing.  I hope you don't get too embroiled into this neg stuff Rob.. good luck to ya.

I do have a hypothosis about the age of people and neg problems.  How old are you again Rob?...24, 25?

Nay

Donal

OK, here is what I think.

If the subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, does that mean that the subconscious could have created Inguma's experiences, like obviously his conscious mind didn't want them.

I'm sorta basing that on quantum physics and it says consciousness creates reality, and like the subconscious could have created these experiences without you knowing, making them manifest in reality.

I am more than likely wrong :D Just wanted to get that off my mind. I am almost certain that you didn't create them Inguma.
Now everybody wanna go to heaven but nobody want to die- Krayzie Bone

Rob

Hey Nay!!!!!!!!!! :dancing:

QuoteAre you saying that Robert said that you are having neg problems because of your father's past problems?

Umm sorta - but that makes it sound like my dad is somehow at fault. Its more that negs hijack the close emotional/energetic ties within the family unit for their own purpose, and use them to form attachments to younger family members and continue like that down through the generations. All the Robert really said about this was going more in depth into the present state of things, how this thing connects to me through him, kinda.

QuoteI see now that my thoughts and beliefs are no longer welcomed on any forum.... I don't know what is happening but the negative side of things are prevailing.

Ehhh?? And how did you come to that conclusion???!!? I do hope my post didnt make you think that it was in any way an attack on you or anyone!:hug:
I have my own experiences, they are valid and important to this topic, and since I learned so much from them I just hope others can too.

QuoteI hope you don't get too embroiled into this neg stuff Rob.. good luck to ya.

heheh thanks. I have given my point of view now, told people where I am coming from, and I dont intend to argue the issue. People can come to their own conclusions. Yeah, its a sticky area to get embroiled in!! Lets of heady emotions and etc.

I am 24. So lets hear your theory then!! And how it relates to the real world experiences I had, would be interesting to hear  

-----------------


Donal!!!
Thanks for your opinions!!
With respect to my experiences though, I am unsure how I could have created them when I was 5, and concerning my Dad, did he create these experiences himself too? The rashes, the seeming illness, the bad dreams, all happening when I was doing my stuff or was seeing this thing? Its a difficult point to argue..... :wink:

QuoteI'm sorta basing that on quantum physics and it says consciousness creates reality

Let me guess, What the Bleep?  :grin:

cyas!!!
(!!!Formerly known as Inguma!!!)
You are the Alpha and the Omega. You are vaster than the universe and more powerful than a flaring supernova. You are truly incredible!!

MisterJingo

Ok. Just for fun, I'll try and decipher these experiences in a more objective viewpoint. No way am I saying what I have written is true, it's just about getting an alternative viewpoint.

Assumptions:
You seem to be of a mindset that neg experiences exist, and so this would have coloured your remembrances/recording of these events. I'm not saying you lied, just that our beliefs colour our perceptions and memories – and strong beliefs affect our perception strongly.

Experience 1:
First thing to note is that you saw this immediately on waking, and it faded very quickly as you fully awoke.
So you awoke to see something at the bottom of your bed. Even without sleep paralysis, dreams or dream images can 'bleed' into reality. This in itself proves nothing. Here's a thread with similar things:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21949&highlight=zombie

I have always taken this as a peculiarity of the border of sleep, not a negative sentient entity at the bottom of my bed.

Next you had a negative thought. What were your emotions at this time? Having seen something on waking, I'm guessing you would be feeling a degree of fear and/or apprehension. With a belief in negs, this might have translated itself into the words in your head. I think this might be reinforced by the actions you took next. You seem to have a strong belief in negs if you went through all that trouble afterwards.
I can't say why your Dad was having bad dreams.

Just to add, if you have complete control of your mind and subconscious, then you are the first person I have met who has. Many times our mind seems to fight our desires such as we might not wish to think bad thoughts, but such a wish (or holding of such fears) can produce such thoughts – as there is a focus there (even if an indirect focus).

Experience 2:
This sounds exactly like a night terror. Sleep paralysis followed by feeling or seeing something in the room with you. In the countless times I've experienced this I have had many strange things at the foot of my bed (This occurred in early childhood too).
The feeling of terror in such situations is self generated. I guess waking up, not being able to move, seeing strange scary things would be enough to kick in a reflex terror reaction.
Many children experience this, and it's not beyond the mind of a child to imagine. Children imagine monsters under the bed, in the cupboard, in the dark. Why cant they imagine scary things when in a very scary situation with a mind full of hypnopompic images?

Experience 3:
This once again is a night terror, which is sleep paralysis with a state of consciousness bordering sleep so we seem to see dream images override reality (hypnopompic images). The fact movement broke this state proves it was just sleep paralysis. No Negs here.

Experience 4:
I can't really say anything about this. I'd need a lot more information.

Experience 5:
Could be vibrations induced from focussing on mental images? It doesn't spread slowly; it seems to surge over the body in an instance.
This has happened to me on occasion, usually when I'm quite relaxed and for me at least when I'm lying in bed.

Experience 6:
Firstly regarding the symptoms when using this technique, you stated it gave you many symptoms you expected to get. Couldn't a deep belief in experiencing something actually make you experience it when you apply a trigger technique?
It's interesting your Dad experienced this too. I've had a similar experience, where I've projected and that has affected close family members at the same time.
I'm not really sure what this is, but it doesn't suggest any neg activity to me.


Conclusion:
Every experience where you noticed anything visual or aural were either during a sleep paralysis episode (where seeing and hearing things is amazingly common) or right on the border of sleep where such things occur frequently.
The experiences regarding your dad are interesting, but this could suggest a close link between you two. You had a fear of negs, your dad had a neg related dream. You induced a sickness through belief; your Dad felt a sickness too.

In my own opinion I've experienced all of what you wrote in different forms and a lot more, yet not on a single occasion have I felt the need to do banishing rituals or protect myself – I simply have seen no neg involvement in such situations.

You will dismiss everything I say. And that is fine. We each follow our own beliefs. But I really have seen nothing that could be attributed to a neg in the above (in my own experience of such things).

Disclaimer:

There are my views and I am not saying negs don't exist. I'm just giving my view on the experiences in Ingumas post.

Nay

Not much I can add to what MJ has just said.  

When I said "I see now that my thoughts and beliefs are no longer welcomed on any forum.... I don't know what is happening but the negative side of things are prevailing."   I didn't think you were attacking anyone, I guess I was just feeling a bit off kilter.  I was banned from the AD site and I hadn't even posted anything.. they just banned me because of my name.  I feel that people are taking the negative road alot more these days and was hoping to have the mods see eye to eye and when I read your post it made me feel like I've been yapping for no reason. :razz:

I believe more in the negative energy that has been directed towards me from people here, than the dark shadow that crosses my path from time to time.  But even then,  I'm not giving it much life.  

I was going to wait to get more information about my thoughts on the age thingy but I'll try and give a quick rundown.

I'm turning 39 in less than two weeks and in my childhood the monsters in the closets were, Frankenstein, dracula and zombies.  So it was only normal to have nightmares about such things.  I was so afraid of Frankenstein....freaked me out.  Funny enough the last nightmare I had about him, I gave birth to his baby.  :yikes2:   Even as a child I was finding ways to abolish the darkside, not hold on to it.

These days with people in your age group the monsters are more realistic.  Hell, I can't watch zombie movies these days because I know damn well one day I'm gonna step out of my body only to be confronted by the new and improved version.   Kids have been so brainwashed and conditioned to have no emotions about horrific things, thus causing some to look for more of a "kick" because feeling fear is at least feeling something....  It so much more easier to be angry and the victim than being happy with life on this planet.  

Then you got people praying on the innocence of others for a dollar.  Robert wouldn't be where he is today had he not started this whole PSD bull....  Do you think people would still follow him if he told these people they are living a lie...a lie that he is getting paid for?  Of course he is going to tell the people whom go to his workshops that they're being attacked and possessed because otherwise they would stop coming and go find the next genius that tells them what they want to hear so they can carry on to the road to distruction.   And now it's not only the person he is speaking to but other family members who can bring this on their loved ones....*puke*

So many people being mislead... it really pisses me off.   :protest:

Rob

Ahh I really really didnt want to get drawn into discussions over this. But what the heck.
The thing is, your explanations are at best poorly fitting patches over evidence which consistently points to a more otherworldly explanation. At worst you are making oodles of assumptions, or even getting the facts wrong. Occams razor etc. Simply accepting negs involvement neatly explains everything. Lets see....your points:

QuoteYou seem to be of a mindset that neg experiences exist, and so this would have coloured your remembrances/recording of these events

Nope - not all the time. The experience when I was much younger, I remembered for years, it was only when I came across RB's neg stuff that I had something which I could pin it to. For ages I didnt know what had happened, and my memories of it haven't changed over the years.

QuoteEven without sleep paralysis, dreams or dream images can 'bleed' into reality. This in itself proves nothing.
Maybe, but thats not the only thing that happened, as you know. What adds credibility is the totality of things that happened that night. Also, I have never had dreams "bleed" into reality like this (well, once before I have woken up and seen a strange looking creature sitting above my curtains, but this is debateable whether it was dream substance or seeing into the astral). Added to the other stuff, and your explanation really doesnt fit.
Side note: The majority of "dream bleed" imo is astral sight. Have friends who get this, and the consistency with which it relates to seeing astral denizens is strong. For instance, they wake and see spiders sitting around, even when their dreams are not even slightly spider related. They dont see 8 foot tall clowns with 6 arms eating spaghetti and petting small furry animals, or whatever it is they were just dreaming about (lol).

QuoteI can't say why your Dad was having bad dreams.
I can.... :grin:
And if you cant explain this, which is an integral part of the experience, then......well come on!!!! Btw my dad usually doesnt remember his dreams, and I cant think of another instance when this has occurred. Nightmares are certainly not a common thing for him (ie cant remember him getting them before then or since). And they occurred when a) I wasnt having nightmares myself and b) while I was asleep and c) before and after I had my experience and d) the substance related to neg stuff, neatly removing any possibility that it was my thoughts interfering with him, and adding credibility to the neg hypothesis.

QuoteJust to add, if you have complete control of your mind and subconscious, then you are the first person I have met who has.

Complete control, no, but I never said that (red herring alert!). I do however have a very high degree of knowledge about what goes on in my head through extensive long term self observation. This is something I pride myself on. Also, at the time I was open to any possibility. If I wasnt I would not have prayed for it like it was a lost soul.....

QuoteMany times our mind seems to fight our desires such as we might not wish to think bad thoughts, but such a wish (or holding of such fears) can produce such thoughts – as there is a focus there (even if an indirect focus).

Trust me, I have extensive knowledge of this. But its not relevant here. There was no such counter current at the time. And yes I was a tad afraid, and the voice may possibly at a stretch have been related to all these things, but its not a strong point on its own I only add it as a part of the overall story.

QuoteThis sounds exactly like a night terror.

Calling it a "night terror" proves nothing. This is simply the name the scientific community has given to the phenomenon, since they are incapable of considering the other options we are discussing. Also, if you have studied the medical tests on this, the "this area of the brain lights up", or the "lacking x chemical" explanations similarly dont explain anything, they only explore the specifics of whats going on on a physiological level.
IMO most instances of "night terrors" are neg attacks. But thats another topic.

QuoteThe fact movement broke this state proves it was just sleep paralysis. No Negs here.

Oh come on, it "proves" nothing of the sort!!! Once again, calling it "sleep paralysis" is just a sweeping statement that explains nothing. Why cant moving break a neg induced paralysis? No logic here.... :wink:

Side note: negs IMO take advantage of natural processes. Sleep paralysis may be a natural process. So just because you wake up paralysed, might not mean its a neg attack granted. Its the combination of stuff that indicates this. The paralysis spread with a very unnatural sense of dread (not something which always happens in instances of sleep paralysis). I have never had bodily paralysis except on this and the other occasion(s) I mentioned, both of which had strong neg indicators. Also, people tend to wake into non-neg-induced sleep paralysis. They dont wake up, hear voices, see something hanging above their bed, and then suddenly get hit by it (paralysis), accompanied by an overwhelming sense of fear.

QuoteCould be vibrations induced from focussing on mental images? It doesn't spread slowly; it seems to surge over the body in an instance.
This has happened to me on occasion, usually when I'm quite relaxed and for me at least when I'm lying in bed.

No, I wasnt in a state appropriate to getting vibrations (ie my body was tense, I wasnt in a meditative state like I have to be (for hours) before spontaneous vibrations start, there was no mental vibrations "trigger" going off (dont ask, another completely separate topic!) etc etc). Also I am familiar with the sensation of vibrations, and this was not it. There was no surge involved, it was a sudden and instant feeling all over my body, without any other relating sensations, quite unlike anything I have ever felt before. And why on that image but no others, and then fading away next time? No, it makes no sense.

QuoteExperience 6:
Firstly regarding the symptoms when using this technique, you stated it gave you many symptoms you expected to get.

Actually, I specifically did not say this because it would have been completely untrue!!! I read about this technique, but never gave it a proper go, then decided to try it some weeks/months later with gusto. I specifically remember feeling ill and etc, then going over the article to see if this was common, and then being somewhat surprised to find that all the things I were experiencing were common side effects. So sorry! No cheese for you. :rolling:

And induced a sickness by belief? You're kidding me, right?!!!? My brother is a trained doctor. Thats his profession, one which he passed every exam for with flying colours (oodles of distinctions etc etc). I told him about what I was doing after I heard about Dads "food poisoning" (btw, my bro is very sceptical regarding all these things). Even he didnt have the cheek to suggest this!! Although admittedly we were talking more about how my dad was getting the same feelings as I was, but still.
Oh yeah, and there are no other instances of my dad getting an illness synchronous with me getting one. Oh and I wasnt ill when I covered my body in sacred symbols, but he came out with rashes, in the same synchronous fashion. Which rules out the option that I caused it in him. No, there really is no simple explanation for this.

Methinks thats enough! And I really dont want to make any more replies like this, its taken up way too much of my time and energy already. I know you meant it in a good way, but I see what Nay said now, easy to get sucked in.

:wave:

cya
(!!!Formerly known as Inguma!!!)
You are the Alpha and the Omega. You are vaster than the universe and more powerful than a flaring supernova. You are truly incredible!!

MisterJingo

Quote from: Inguma
Methinks thats enough! And I really dont want to make any more replies like this, its taken up way too much of my time and energy already. I know you meant it in a good way, but I see what Nay said now, easy to get sucked in.

:wave:

cya

As I stated I was giving an alternative view point, and an abbreviated one at that. My sole intention was that the majority of what you've experienced can have a natural explaination. And as I said, you would dismiss what I said because you are caught in your own belief system.
The line of reasoning you give is akin to the brain is a product of the mind. The great thing about that is you can ignore everything, and believe what you want cause there is no arguing with it.
I guess I choose not to live in such a closed world view.
If you know as much as you say, then you also know that belief and expectation is paramount in astral experiences. I choose not to fill my mind with demons and negs attacking me, and strangely enough, they never do.

I guess people who read this, what Inguma says might be truth, what I say might be true. But when everything is said and done, this is only what Inguma believes and what I believe. It is no absolute truth, just personal belief.

Souljah333

man...where have i been?!? :wink:
what to respond to first??? :twisted:

first. syncro...what kind of proof do you want/need? seems to me this was just a ploy to fuel another argument...although you mentioned it was not.
proof for anything IMO is pretty non-existent itself. all just theories.
(you'll get a lot of those just about anywhere).

and nay...hmmm :wink:
QuoteI do know that these negs exist, I never said they didn't.
COME AGAIN?!?...that almost knocked me out of my chair! oh no, wait...that was a neg! :lol: i'm not going to take it any further than that. i actually think that we're not too many pages away from each other on the whole neg thing to be honest. i think the tension has more to do with you refusing to see me as an intellectual equal...and that my dear is not only a totally different forum all together, but an insecurity. no biggy though.

i think CFTraveler made the best point.
and all my support for Inguma!!!
(it's not worth the energy trying to explain what's outside the cage...half don't care, half don't want to hear it, and all together no one can 'believe' it) it's all about personal experience, not proving & validating ones self, but you already know that.

anyway...seems i missed the bulk of this discussion. most likely best.

someone prove to me that earth is round, and i'll bother proving that these so called "neg's" (for lack of a better word) exist! :wink:

LOVE & LOTS OF FOOD FOR THE LIGHT
soul
NEW (again) MYSTICMYSFITS.COM

MisterJingo

Quote from: Souljah333.

someone prove to me that earth is round, and i'll bother proving that these so called "neg's" (for lack of a better word) exist! :wink:


And what if a person has had years of experiences which others have readily classed as neg attack, yet those direct experiences have fuled his belief that negs have no hand in such things?
Is one persons personal experience worth more than another?
Such as this point:

Quote
it's not worth the energy trying to explain what's outside the cage

It seems to me whats outside the cage is a shared belief, and if anyones experiences don't raise the same conclusions - they are automatically labeled narrow minded.

I'd perhaps give more respect to someone who goes against convention (and yes all this neg belief is convention in these circles) and finds their own way, rather than jumping on the most popular belief bandwagon.

Nay

Souljah... what do you mean, where have you been??  Hovering and waiting for the right moment to open you mouth.  Yeah, that's right.. I saw on the forums hours ago reading away on this topic....why are you acting like this is the first time you've seen it.  See..that is why I can't trust you as far as I can throw you..and I would love to try. :heh:

You poke and jab out of pleasure.  I'd say you are a walking, living, breathing NEG..  So people, don't fear the negs in the astral, fear the ones right here on these very forums.

If I had no morals like the other site, I'd ban you in a second.  :banned:  Not to mention a few others whom love to gang up on people.. what in the hell.. ya'll must travel in packs.

Stop fanning the flames and find a happy thought for once in your life.

Souljah333

wow...somebody forget to take their med's!

yeah...i was here for a bit reading through the post before i decided to comment...problem with that?!? was this thread not started a month ago?
what's the last few hours have to do with anything?
plus...i'm pretty sure i'm allowed to walk away from the computer, leave the site i'm at open...and not be concerned with what you think about it.
you're so funny!

anyhow...i'm tired of dealing with YOUR negativity. so there.
ms. projection...ban me?!? for what??? sharing my opinions?
my experience?
ban me bcuz you don't agree.
that's real light & lovely of you.
too much BS for me to make sense of.
---------------------------------------------

and to jingo...i'm not sure exactly what you we're asking in the first part, but the rest...no. of course no one persons experience is WORTH MORE than anothers, but when it comes down to it...that's all it can really be about. you're own experience. not someone else's.
i wasn't trying to get complicated with it.

as for what's outside the cage...all manner of possibilities. in my 30 yrs. of astral & unworldly experience i haven't found many that share the same. maybe touch on a few things here and there, but without limits...there's too much going on for much of anything to overlap. maybe that's the general rule of thumb for people who are just beginning to cross over, but for 'us' seasoned explorers...we're typically way 'out there' alone.

QuoteI'd perhaps give more respect to someone who goes against convention (and yes all this neg belief is convention in these circles) and finds their own way, rather than jumping on the most popular belief bandwagon.

I COMPLETELY AGREE!
SOUL
NEW (again) MYSTICMYSFITS.COM

James S

To neg or not to neg...

For every one person here who can state emphatically there's no such thing as negs, and give the evidence to support it, there's another who can state emphatically that there are negs, and can give the evidence to support it.
The evidence, at best, comes by way of personal experiences.

That's a good thing. Better to learn about something through experience than just the theories of someone who's only ever read books on the subject.

There is, however, one catch to expereince being submitted as evidence. Unless you can experience an event as a pure observer only, without even a small ammount of emotional investment in the event, the details, the "truth" of the event, is going to be coloured by your personal perspectives, and more importantly, your personal beliefs.

For this one main reason I feel the ongoing circles, or in some cases, the downwards spirals of discussion about whether negs are or are not real, are completely pointless. If we're going to have people wanting to talk about negs, I believe it would be far more valuable if we put our experiences forward in terms of what works and what doesn't work, rather than whats real and what isn't

If some people have no desire to delve into the world of negs, and are able to effectively solve their troublesome situations through awareness and personal development of their actions and emotions, then others should consider that as something that works. If some people have a form of protection that they have effectively used against troublesome spirits, then others should consider thatalso as something that works.

If, on the other hand, some people seem to be enduring ongoing, long term problems with either personal actions or emotions, or troublesome spirits, then they should consider that whatever it is they are doing is not working. Time then to open up their minds, their beliefs perhaps, to other ideas, and look for something that does work.

Blessings,
James.

Souljah333

as most here know...i've been 'afflicted' for roughly thirty years. i don't know how i've worded it in the past, but obviously i've never been clear enough about my perspective, or my experiences. all that aside...it's been ten years now since i picked up my first j. krishnamurti book and began learning of this "observer"...i haven't stopped since.

for anyone that's never read krishnamurti (who i believe the be the most knowledgeable in this understanding) there's little point in explaining. what james has brought up is not only a truth, but something i have worked very hard to in the past to overcome. of course...the observer is always present, and she can react at will to & in reflection of a lot of ignorance. i allow her that at times...allow my human-ness, as the behaviours of which are just as intriguing to me, as the unworldly side of things.

i was introduced to the astral at a very young age. there were no books, no forums, nothing. it took me a long time to accept what was going on, and it took even longer to share any of the information. a point that's pushed over and over in this arena...that people who are tuned into the 'whole' of the other-side utilize the experience to justify all the crap that goes wrong in their lives...but for a long time (for me) it was the opposite. everything that was crap in my life, justified/coloured my experiences in the astral (and everywhere for that matter). i am very well aware of this concept. i can't speak for others. i'm not here to hinge my understanding on others beliefs. it effects me not. even my own experiences...now, with the ability to be able to put this 'observer' aside...effects me not. and that won't really make sense to anyone who has never grasped the concept.

does that mean that i write everything of my past off to a twisted, obsessed mind? no, of course not. but i don't throw any weight into it at the same time. they are JUST experiences. nor does it mean that to come from a loving/intelligent & respectful space that i have to pretend to understand 'less' (or more) then i do...or play to anyone's misgivings.
i continue my work in ALL areas, bcuz this is what's available to me.

ideas are changing all the time. frankenstein was a scary dude in the past (nothing more). he's filled out now. people can grasp the complete character...not just the superficial face-value of a monster....and folks are more open to embrace other aspects. the victim, the child, the survivor, the misfit, bcuz we've all been there at some point. i shouldn't use the word neg's in my posting's, bcuz it's a lazy word (in my application) that does not mean the same thing, but at the same time there's little point in me attempting to turn anyone elses experiences around. some people come into contact with these things they don't understand...and i'm here for those only. to help curb the fear, help alleviate some misunderstandings, and i'm capable of seeing the seriousness as well...where it comes into play in peoples waking lives.

there's one mentality i just can't seem to accept (though i try). it's a combination of extreme arrogance & ignorance at once. if someone is confronted with any experience, but in this example...a negative one (a demon, a neg, an injury, or disturbance of some kind). it is neither my place to attempt to turn them away from that experience, define it for them, belittle them for it, or manipulate it for my idea of a greater good)...i believe any of those actions are most destructive. a person enters into ANY situation in order to learn and increased their understanding. curbing that is no ones right, and to me...it's a huge sign of the most severely obsessed observer. the one attempting to do god's work...even god doesn't get involved in the lessons.  

i don't understand why this necessarily sets me so far apart?!? why this function gets so deep under the skin of few people in particular. a lot of fear to deal with yet...i guess. a lot of insecurities, and not enough FAITH in other peoples abilities!?! i'm not trying to get rich off anyone elses distress, nor i am poking fun at a trauma, or pushing the extremely limit view of mental dis-ability. i'm not pushing anything at all.

people either feel me on this, or they don't...it doesn't matter one way or the other. people allow themselves to be lead astray, people feel stuck bcuz they don't want to leave the cage, and some people needlessly put themselves in negative situations again and again for the drama & rush. i'm not here to say what's right, and i'm not here as an example as what's wrong. thankfully i feel there is less and less need for that function.
so for some...the youth might represent another dimension of ignorance. to me...i see the opportunity at vastly broader understandings.
and it's about time.
***************************************************
soul
NEW (again) MYSTICMYSFITS.COM