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Is the Devil real?

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shadowdancer

imho, the bible is not just filled with "mistakes" due to the incompetancy of, or personal perspective of, scribes through the ages....although the latter would be closer to what i understand as historical truth...divide the bible in half.  old testament=predominately judaic and semitic thought, belief, mythology, esoteric and exoteric teaching.  new testament=a relatively complete fabrication of history for the purposes of control of the masses.  many of the texts you reference are dated post-nicea council!!!  hello!!! [:P]  i think there may be some truth to the idea that present day christians(of the temperment that actually try and follow the supposed teachings of "Jesus") are misled gnostics.  [:O]  sometimes i am harsh...[:D]  just my opinion.
"It has been said, quite accurately, that a psychotic person is drowning in the very same things that a mystic swims in." -- Pema Chodron

shadowdancer

sorry that i posted bout christianity....the debate should be elsewhere.  my apologies.  Insert
"It has been said, quite accurately, that a psychotic person is drowning in the very same things that a mystic swims in." -- Pema Chodron

punkyou

It is very easy for an atheist to discredit christianity and frankly serves his/her purposes.  The truth is, Satan is real and if you understand his true identity, he is not afraid to reveal himself to you.   It's the non-beleivers who refuse to accept a real satan, simply because the confirmation of satan, also confirms the reality of God.  What's next? Hmmm...then you must be accountable for your actions and sins.   Satan choses not to reveal himself to atheist/agnostics etc.... For the simple fact that if he did and every man recognized him for what he was, there would be a revival in this world beyond comprehension and everyone would flock to God!  Why did Satan deceive Eve?   Because she wouldn't have eaten the fruit from the tree of Knowledge and brought sin into the world. So...he continues to deceive man with lies and illusions.

Tab

Uh.. I don't think anyone here is an atheist buddy..

and stop making new names

no_leaf_clover

Tab - guess who's atheist! (...me!)

quote:
It is very easy for an atheist to discredit christianity and frankly serves his/her purposes. The truth is, Satan is real and if you understand his true identity, he is not afraid to reveal himself to you. It's the non-beleivers who refuse to accept a real satan, simply because the confirmation of satan, also confirms the reality of God. What's next? Hmmm...then you must be accountable for your actions and sins. Satan choses not to reveal himself to atheist/agnostics etc.... For the simple fact that if he did and every man recognized him for what he was, there would be a revival in this world beyond comprehension and everyone would flock to God! Why did Satan deceive Eve? Because she wouldn't have eaten the fruit from the tree of Knowledge and brought sin into the world. So...he continues to deceive man with lies and illusions.


You can go with this. Or you can say that the whole thing is a deception, not from Satan, but from the next worst thing: an organization that was designed from the earliest to be efficient at one thing, and that was controlling the masses of people. Arguments like the one you made can sound convincing to the weak-willed and uninformed people. It basically scares them into believing in God, and that wouldn't be the way to go if you really wanted to be christian, or islamic or jewish for that matter.

The part of the Bible you quote, from the tale of Adam and Eve, comes from Sumeria. The Sumerians had an 'Epic of Creation' thousands of years before the Bible's version, and the Sumerian version went into much more detail but was polytheistic. The story would later pop up with a single 'God', who was called 'El', in the early versions of the jewish Bibles. You may have heard about the grammar 'errors', where God is written in Hebrew as a plural word, and is written as if God talks to himself or else has equals ("Behold! The Adam has became as one of us to know good and evil.", etc.). All of this is because the story came from an older story that involved multiple divine beings, known to the Sumerians as 'Annunaki'. 'Adam' is also called the Adam because Adam comes from the ancient word Adama, which can mean both clay and man ("God fashioned man from clay in his own image", etc.). I'll stop there, because beyond that some things have to be assumed, but all of that is accepted fact by archaeologists and historians.
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

Murt

I'd like ( if I may )to take you on a strange journey. ahh no thats a quote from rocky horrror picture show, but I read a little story once told by a very wise man. The story is called
The little Soul, and the Sun.
There once was a Soul, who knew itself to be the light.
This was a new Soul, and so, anxious for experience.
 "I am the light", it said. "I am the light."
Yet all the knowing of it and all the saying of it could not substitute for the experience of it. And in the realm from which this Soul emerged, there was nothing BUT the the light.
Every Soul was grand, every Soul was magnificent, and every Soul shone with the brilliance of God's awesome light. And so the little Soul in question was as a candle in the sun. In the midst of the grandest light - of which it was a part - it could not see itself, nor experience itself, as Who and what it really is.
It came to pass that this Soul yearned and yearned to know itself. And so great was it's yearning that God one day said, "Do you know, little One, what you must do to satisfy this yearning of yours?"
"Oh, what, God? What? I'll do ANYTHING!" The little soul said.

"You must separate yourself from the rest of us," God answered, "and then you must call upon yourself the darkness."
"What is the darkness, O Holy One?" the little Soul asked.
"That which you are not," God replied, and the soul understood.
And so, this, the Soul did, removing itself from the all, yea, going even unto another realm. And in this realm the Soul had the power to call into it's experience all sorts of darkness. And this it did.
Yet in the midst of all this darkness did it cry out, " Father, Father, why hast Thou forsaken me?" Even as have we in our blackest times. Yet God has never forsaken us, but stands by us always ready, to call us home.
Therefore, be a light unto the darkness, and curse it not.

P.S. These aren't my words!

Nagual

I am an atheist too!  [:D]

Hum, sort of... I don't believe in all the many different gods/demons theories out there, but I believe something created and control the universe.  All these god as an old man with a white bear, all white dressed winged angels living in a fluffy paradise...  Or godesses with 6 arms and 4 legs...  or gods with animals heads... Sorry, too much for me... [:P]

I met many "demon" looking things in my experiences, but they all ended up looking more like hungry wild animals, just like if you run into an hungry very intelligent/sneaky lion... or lawyer! [;)]

Notice, I don't say they are all wrong (even if only 1 can be true, or maybe a mix).  I just say that I refuse to take any religion created by humans as the truth...  I will create my own personal belief system based on my interpretation of my own experiences.  It will be long and maybe hopeless but... that's the only true solution for me.  Maybe I will do the wrong interpretation (like some or all the religions did apparently), but that's life...  Maybe we just can't and will never be able to understand anything!

I still have problems with some concepts: who created the guy who created the universe?  And who created the guy who created the guy who created the universe?  etc... [;)])
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

Murt

Hey Nagual,
Thats the great thing about God's universe, you have total free will to believe whatever you want !
Can I just say on your point about who created the Creator ect.
I had a real hang up about this, until it was explained to me that, there are three beings, which are of course one, and if you think about this concept as a triangle, which has no end or beginning.
The Triangle is eternal.
That sorted me out, but I try not to think about it too often !

Logic

My church once said, that hell is made of sulfur fires, where they produce no light at all and burn like an acid. Yay dogma!
We are not truly lost, until we lose ourselves.

The Sapphrite

Is Satan real?? I believe he is. He lives somewhere in one of the spiritual planes. If you don't like Satan, you can always psychically attack him. It is not that difficult. But be careful because if you do not know what you are dealing with it might mess you up. If you want to know what Satan's energy feels like, it is kind of like a hot dark cloud of fear.

Mustardseed

It seems that a lot of people believe Demons to be real, and also Angels. Some believe that there is such a being as God, now, how about the...Devil!!!. I think that I am concluding that he must be real too and not just the sum of everyones fears, your own subconsious fear or whatever . If he is real does he have a plan and if he does what is it. I have met angels in real life 2 times and they were helping me, I realise demons hinder, but what is the big picture...anyone??
Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!