Joining NEW and LBRP

[Fenris]

Ay there buddy!

I meditate before I begin my evenings NEW action. A part of this routine is that I preform the LBRP in my mind in a special place I have created, a virtual temple of sorts (but for me its in a nature setting). Basicaly I move my awarenes into this place and just take in the seenry and relax for a while. Then I perform the LBRP, I find that because Im already in a place entierly created by my imagination it is simple to visualise and put the energy into perfect pentagrams and 'see' the ritual actually work. Even though Im not using real vocal cords I have found that I can vibrate the words even stronger by using  my imagination like this. I am still aware somewhat of my physical body (light trance i guess) and I do feel vibrations going through it as if I were actually doing the ritual in person- but even stronger.

After finishing the ritual I go back to just being in this place and then I let the image of the place fade away and just go back to blackness where I am more aware of my physical body. My body feels notably different after the ritual- even more so than if I do it in the flesh.

However I would not recomend this to someone who has not done the ritual, well like your ment to for a little while- just so you can feel it better in your mind.

I know I have not related this to NEW  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0> (I mean did you expect better?) but I thought it is something you might like to play around with. At least for me I find it better in the mind-but I have done a lot of work with visualisation (imagining things).

" I'm just a NEW newbie (sorry) at the moment" - why apolgise Joe, I mean me all suck at some stage right? Or was it for the pun? Because I was pretty much planning to ignore that http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

best regards

David

Veni Vidi Vici

[Ides315]

Hi, Joe

I think Fenris definatly has something there. Even before I started doing NEW, I had better (stronger) results with the LBRP and other things doing them in a similiar manner. I do not create a magickal place to do them (but I like the idea), just go into my usual work area.

I do not know where you are getting your training/information from, but I started with Donald Michial Kraig's Modern Magick. If you read the whole book, he recomends doing most rituals with your astral double once you get that far. Unfortunatly that isn't taught until the near the end of the book. Probably once your knowledge is far enough to be capable.

I have questioned about the greater results, and was informed that the reason is your physical self gets "in the way". On the other hand it was recomended to continue with the physical until the difference is almost gone. Helps with getting "in tune", or something like that.

I have also found that doing the Q-CROSS when I need a little (lot) of "good" energy psychicly is very helpful. Usually I just make the connection to my crown chakra and "intake" what I need. This can also be directed down to the stomach chakra for storage and recharging, or to create various forms of the white/pure light for protection, cleansing, and healing.

Best wishes

[Joe]

G'day Fenris, its been a while!

I'd like to learn and perform the rituals mentally also, and by the sounds of things this is working great for you. My priority right now is to get secondary and then primary chakras much more active via NEW, in order to achieve good support skills like etheric/astral sight and very strong creation of seals in the astral. Don't know if it's optimistic or not, but I give myself 3 months or so with an hour per day practice - any thoughts?  I only just started NEW seriously, the energy sensations are mild but getting stronger each time. I am fairly sure I have a number of blockages and attachments, based on the symptoms ppl describe, which is why I'm serious about doing banishings and NEW, etc

I wanted to join NEW to LBRP because I thought deep energy raising followed by primary work (esp brow chakra) would enhance the power of the rituals, esp the AA invocations. It might also be a good replacement for MPR and Circulation of Light, dunno. If I ever get to OBE without jinxing myself before I die, I'd love to perform all rituals in the Astral, exactly as you've described in a personal temple setting.

So much to do.......so little time.....

Take care, mate!!

PS: The "(sorry)" before was for the pun. I hate puns. My "Most-Hated List" is 1. Saddam Hussein, 2. Puns, 3. Nervous body-rush when attempting OBE  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

[Joe]

Ides - just missed your post before my reply. Thanks - that's some good info, especially using the QC that way. I am using DMK also, but only on Lesson 3 so far. I don't yet have perfect visualisation abilities - I don't know if I could keep it up for the length of the ritual. Maybe once the LBRP becomes habitual it won't be a big issue. Also, when you first went through, what effects if any did you notice after doing LBRP for a month or so?

Thanks again!

[Ides315]

Hi (again) Joe.

After rereading your post, I think this is what you were asking.

Use NEW to awaken and "feel" your energy body before you start a ritual. Once the ritual is started, you are using the same "energy network" to send energy into your work. Feel the energy gather in you and go out  your arm(s) as you need it for different parts of the ritual.

What Robert is teaching is how to "tone up" the networks that are used for the majority of magick operations. You are probably seeing this with the increases you are getting, combined with "stronger" knowledge of the LBRP.

Best wishes

[Grenade01]

You guys really use the LBRP?  Ive thought about checking it out, but Ive never been one for rituals..Im more of a just do it practically guy.  Thats what attracted me to NEW and astral bruce.

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[Ides315]

Hi, Joe

After a month or so, my visulisations picked up, I could feel the AA's and the enviroment that surronds them. After I started doing NEW, with my regular eyes I began to see the shimmerings of the circle and the seals.

If you are having problems keeping NEW going, just keep doing it. If you do it enough, it becomes like walking or chewing gum, you don't have to think about it. Work on drawing in the energy as Robert describes, it helps to recharge, and keep you from being depleted. In the QC, you are (among other things) making a energy tap with the divine. You can use and send this energy into your system, not just passing through.

If you believe you have attachments, "feel" for were they are. Make you body vibrate and light up like the light you ascend to in the QC. Shove The pure energy and you own at the attachment. Reaffirm that it isn't you. (the attachment). They really seem to hate the white light vibrations. When it goes, move yourself and the power of divinity into the "hole" that is left in your body. It will help with the depression and emptyness that will come if you are attached.

Best wishes.

[kakkarot]

ok, i think i am a little out of my league with your guys' conversation, but i was just wondering, what is LBRP (lower banishing ritual practice ?  ), AA, and Q-Cross?

also, ides315: i am beginning to think that the same "network" that runs through the body is used for any sort of connection between the physical and the non-physical (magickal energy, chi, pranic, astral, etc). i don't know whether you meant this or not, but is anybody else out there thinking along the same lines?

~kakkart

Secret of Secrets

[Ides315]

Hi Kakkarot,

LBRP = Lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram

The other terms though used seperatly are generally part of it also

Qcross, or QC = Qabbilistic Cross

AA refers to the invocation of the Arch Angels.

There are quite a few variations on these, but all are basically the same thing, just different interpratations of how to get there.

You can find descriptions on the net. I wouldn't recommend trying them until you know what you are attempting though. Joe and I are both using Donal Michael Kraigs Modern Magick as a reference. This has been rereleased and you should be able to find it at a decent book store, or order it. I have read different reviews on it, with people varying widely on there opinions. I think that he did very well with what he was attempting... To bring ceremonial Magick to the masses. He recommends several other works to read besides his own, and they do not all agree with him. It is just something to get you started on the path as a good foundation, then you decide which "stepping stones" are right for you.

Best wishes.

[Joe]

Thanks Ides - that's the kind of integration between the two areas I'm looking for. The main development priorities for me now are NEW and stronger LBRP and BRH rituals (plus concentration, the bane of development work). I am also looking for an effective way to attack localised attachment points (A wart just appeared under my right 4th toe), if you know of some, like the white light energy stream, etc (I've always been a little averse to new age "white light" so I've never given this a fair try before..) I thought of doing LBRP, then getting into light trance, reinforcing QC light, then drawing small pentacles with my mind on the attachment points, seeing them glow and embed in my body and seal against attachment. Just another experiment I'm toying with!

Does anyone know if lower negs/feeders are repelled by pentagrams like stronger/"higher" types are? If not, the above may be useless, but I'll give it a try anyways.

Thanks again.

PS: kakkarot, when I read your other posts on energy, etc I thought the same thing - that the same energy was perceived differently (ki, chi, kundalini). It is the same bio-energy or pure-energy that is raised/generated into the body via secondary chakras, stored in one of the three storage centres, and raised up the primary circuit (kundalini circuit, etc). I haven't yet moved on to primary work, but the other day I played around with the brow chakra gently to see if my skills were improving, and I quit once I started getting movement sensations (scared myself! I don't want to open primaries until secondaries are working well). It may "feel" different, but to my understanding it is the same underlying energy...Interested to hear your thoughts though.

All the best!

[Ides315]

Hi kakkarot

Sorry, I was in a hurry and didn't answer your second question. But I think Joe pretty well nailed it. I think the origin of some of the different energies may vary somewhat, but I suspect that all enternal energies are the same. How they are accessed may change the "flavor" so to speak.

External energies are a different matter however. There are many sources for them. Using NEW and intaking energy at different places has different flavors to me. This is also how it seems to me with the different aspects of divinity.

I wonder if Chi is all enternal, I have not studied it much, but it sounds like the life force. In my mind this is an inside and outside power source. Maybe somone more knowledgable than myself will clarify that.

Best wishes.

[Grenade01]

What do you guys think of the techniques for LBRP on this website?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/index.htm

The website seems to have quite a lot of stuff, but I don't know if its quality.
Check some of it out and let me know if you guys think I should/could give anything a try, or If I should just go out and get the book afterall (Ive got a ton of books to read right now tho)

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[Joe]

Hey Grenade - I checked out the site. I wasn't too impressed with the Wiccan or Greek versions, and Tom Maroney's comments weren't great either. Generally, the quality of the Internet rituals depends on the depth of experience of the authors, something not usually guaranteed.

I bought MM because it was recommended so highly by a number of very proficient magicians as a beginner's guide to Golden Dawn rituals. I find his style and knowledge pretty good. The LBRP descriptions is one of the best around. You may have to look past his Jewish background and tendency to cast practitioners are either white or black, which is based on his very subjective value system. Regardless, it's only an introductory volume, and LBRP is only a very small part of starting out with ceremonial magick. A complete beginner's course is given in "The Golden Dawn" by Israel Regardie, and there are so many other complementary texts that it wouldn't be worth listing them unless you wanted to pursue CM. I'm just a novice myself, and the whole area is massive.

All the best!

[Rob]

Joe - with respect to breaking attachmentment points, have you tried using RAPIDO methods over them? Generally bouncing energy back and forth very quickly over the wart puts them under a lot of pressure. I have tried visualising sacred symbols over them too, can't say how well it works - probably has to be done on a regular basis. I found that RB's method of drawing a circle/cross over them to be very effective, but I think you have to attack the pychological causes too.
Another interesting thing I try is looking for where the main areas of attachment seem to be - for me it is over my solar plexus. So i often draw a big cicle/cross over the entire area and have noticed some good effects.

[distant bell]

Hi!
I would like to know whitch LBRP u guys us.
I do like the works of Crowley, and Í guess he´s
rituals are wery good- but there are so many others.
I have thought about using a basic LBRP and then adapt
it to suit myselfe bu schoosing words of power that I can
relate to.

I have one here:
ATOH
MALKUTH
VE GEBURAH
VE GEDULAH
LE OLAHM
ADONAL
EHIEH
AGLA
RAFAEL
GABRIEL MICHAEL
AURIEL

Yes.. I list of pretty wird names..
I have to say they mean wery little to me-
sure I can check up on the mythology, but it takes
a while of us before a god becomes alive.

Felix


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

[Joe]

Hi Inguma - thanks v much for the tips! I'm just getting the hang of TI at the moment, with mild energy movement sensations, but I'll give RAPIDO a go for sure. It's also encouraging to hear the circle+cross pen method works, so I'll give that a go as well!! Will let you know how these turn out, as I'm anxious to get this stuff worked out asap.

Hi Felix - I use the method in Don Kraig's "Modern Magick" - can't really comment on the other methods as I haven't tried them to compare effectiveness. Either way though, you might want to stick to the God-names and Hebrew invocations that are tried and tested, as these contain their own power. Maybe someone with more experience than me can comment on modifying the rituals, designing your own, etc. I just wanted to add stronger psychic energy to mine via NEW.

The first 5 phrases you listed are used in the Qaballistic Cross as a prayer: "Thine is the Kingdom, Power and Glory forever" (or similar). The next 3, are 3 of the 4 God-names (add "YHVH" as the first) - each have their own ancient meaning. The last 4 are the elemental archangel names, used for protection. You're right in that it takes some time for the ritual to have good effect - RB has said that it takes a year to learn fully - but you can always get benefits from the first time.

All the best!

[alchimiste]

I'd just like to comment briefly on the LBRP and what RB has said about it (as quoted in joe's post "You're right in that it takes some time for the ritual to have good effect - RB has said that it takes a year to learn fully - but you can always get benefits from the first time.")

....When he says that a year is the minimum before it is fully learnt I would say this is true but it takes about three full years of daily ritual before the effects can become permanent. When I say permanent I mean that the ritual in its banishing form has a max duration of 24 hours so daily repetition is to be recommended (ideally before you go to bed).
After about three years of daily practice the effects of protection become permanent as the aura of the operater and the pentagrams visualised become engraved upon the astral.
The LBRP is ok as a stand alone protection but remember it is a preparation ritual for bigger and better things that without its' (the LBRP that is) complete intergration will not function for the simple reason that the operators aura does not have a strong enough form and does not carry the presence of the necessary symbols in the astral.
So it all depends on what you want the LBRP to be...a stepping stone to greater things or just a stand alone protection ritual.

Ciao

alchimiste

[Mathias Jonsson]

Hello!

When I started studying magick about six years ago, I used Craig´s book as a sort of guide, I have found it helpful in many ways, but I have also noticed that whilst Craig presents GD rituals, he gives his own versions of them; e.g. his version of LBRP uses a type of  invocation of elemental forces just before you seal the pentagrams (you are supposed to inhale the elemental force from each quarter), which I have found to be negative, as this can generate unbalanced/qlipphotic absorption of force, as there may be difficulties in grounding the energy (I had just that problem, and might have been a reason that the negs succeeded in establishing their psycho-magnetic links).
Also N. B. the version of LBRP in Regardie´s GOLDEN DAWN is not identical with Craig´s version!

I would also like to comment on LBRP´s effectiveness on negs - I used the MPR and in someway it seemed like the negs were able to feed off the energy thus generated.
This may sound unlikely as the force is of the higher kind and would thus be "toxic to the negs", but I remember once that after having invoked the brilliance of the sphere above the head I could feel the dark negsphere descending like a predator out for a bite.

Some experts like Denning & Philips advise people not to do rituals such as MPR when being under psychic attack, I was advised by a high grade magician to abstain from magick and ritualwork altogether under a period. A ritual such as THE TOWER OF LIGHT (as given in Denning & Philips´book PSYCHIC SELF_DEFENSE AND WELL-BEING) seem by most to be beneficial though.

QUESTION:
What exactly is the astrall effect on a neg- attachment if one does LBRP, how does it effect the magnetic links/the core images?

Also for me Craig´s free-traditional-neo-GD way has seemed unfitting, I have felt and would recommend to others to use a system in full instead, whether it may be GOLDEN DAWN, O.T.O.s THELEMA, or whatever. Craig´s simplifying approach may have it´s values, but for me a full system provides much more guidance and support.

I have found that the AURUM SOLIS system is the best suited for me (at least it feels totally right for me) as it is so much more sublime in its use of symbols, influence from the Hellenic/ Neoplatonic/Gnostic/Eastern-Byzantine, and their banishing ritual SETTING OF THE WARDS OF POWER seems much better than LBRP (perhaps a matter of taste), with the exception of the visualizing of the pentagram on the brow maybe, drawing the pentagram feels more natural, but I guess this is just a matter of what one is used to, as i`ve heard from people who have switched from LBRP to SETTING OF THE WARDS.

Anyone here who share my awe for the Ogdoadic system of AURUM SOLIS: and the books of Denning & Philips, especially their books on magick such as PLANETARY MAGICK??

Best regards

Mathias J

[Jim]

Mathias:

I've used the Aurum Solis materials since their original publication and have shared  your enthusiasm - sometimes less, sometimes more. I have used their Setting of the Wards daily for years with some modification. For instance, I replaced their archangelic names with a more traditional grouping of Raphael, Michael, Gabriel, and Uriel. I find I get more powerful results this way. Keep in mind though that the rituals not labeled Sub Rosa Nigra (like the Setting of the Wards) seem to have been added to keep the GD crowd happy. The regular Aurum Solis material is much more involved with Greek modes of operation, and I would argue much more influenced by Thelema than they would ever admit to.


You might find the following egroup to be of interest:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aurum_solis_magick/


Osborne Phillips just published a book of Aurum Solis initiations, etc that's worth a look:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1870450523/qid%3D1023390002/202-7322152-2970203


Jim

[Mathias Jonsson]

Hello Jim!

There is also an Enochian version of SETTING OF THE WARDS.. but it is´nt included in the MYSTERIA MAGICA, the question is do the A:S: use a simliar ritual or just the Greek version?

What type of bansihing ritual have been most effective for you LBRP or Setting of the wards?

I have participated in the A:S: discussion group on yahoo, but I enjoy this forum much more, the atmosphere is much more generous and open, you don´t have to be an Adept to take part of its discussions.

I have Osborne Philips latest book and it´s a little gem, a very good supplement to THE MAGICAL PHILOSOPHY books, though in my opinion this book might have been even better if it had beenat least partially illustrated.

Best regards

Mathias J

[Jim]

Mathias:

I believe that the individuals in the A.S. practice all of the forms included in the books. For myself, I used to be a hardcore AS fan, but have found that age and experience have tempered my views. I never took to the G.D. material much and disliked the LBRP for some reason. I like my modified version of the A.S. Setting of the Wards better. It feels right and this is the most important thing. One of the first things I've learned is to not be afraid to modify a ritual to make it fit yourself better. All of the rituals we're talking about were made by fallable individuals such as us - not by Gods. Don't worry, you won't be attacked http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0> !
One other thing that I've found to greatly enhance the effectiveness of the Settings is to actually invoke each of the archangels in a separate ritual with the purpose of attuning yourself to its power and to ask for its help. You can use rituals modified from those found in the Planetary Magick book. The rituals found in the A.S. material can be used but something more short and sweet works just as well.

You also might want to take a look at some of Ben Rowe's work. If you're interested in the LBRP you'll find no better discussion of it than at:

http://w3.one.net/~browe/pentagram%20ritual.htm

If you don't know his work spend some time on this site. It's well worth the time.

Jim

[Mathias Jonsson]

Hello Jim!

I agree with you that what works best for yourself is the way to go. Personally I´ve just recently begun doing SETTING OF THE WARDS after a four year long ritual hiatus, and I like it much more than LBRP, there are probably many reasons for this; one being that II have felt for a long time that the A:S: system is the best one for me.
Before I worked in a free-traditional way and it never felt right.
The A:S: way of working is much more artistic and academic (in a good sense) whereas many other magical groups use egregores that seem to be patterned on a hodge-podge out of Larousse´s Encyclopedia of Mythology.
Also I´m very interested in Gnosticism and Neoplatonism which is greatly emphasised in the A:S: system.

I also have felt that SETTING OF THE WARDS feels more astrally cleansing than the LBRP.

Mathias

[Joe]

Has anyone found a way to join NEW somehow to the LBRP ritual? I'm slowly getting stronger results from LBRP, but would love to have the psychic energy to create much stronger pentagrams and seal them, etc. I'm just a NEW newbie (sorry) at the moment. Has anyone found that NEW improves the efficacy of rituals, etc?