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Tyrone

triss; if I may, I think what karot is trying to explain is that on the physical level we are the same as a tree, yes, we are one of the universe and the universe is one of us.  We have the same molecular forces holding our cells together.  However on the higher levels, where one goes after this lifetime, we have a different essence than an animal.  All animals are already fully evolved species, it is us humans that are still evolving and learning and experiencing.  Everything else is here to aid, color, and bring some joy to our everyday life.

'did I get that right?

Every wonder why most (if not) only humans cry so hard when they are first born?

tyrone.




kakkarot

triss: "Nature includes, or is comprised of, or IS, everything... no" that is not what i define nature as. ok. i define nature as the existance of creatures which coincide with one another and only do what they must to survive, or only somewhat more than that, in, or close to, a state of equalibrium where neither chaos nor order reign and where good and evil are non-existant; where what happens happens, not because someone or something willed it to happen, but because the events and decisions of creatures, in their individual lives, caused a coincidence to occur that was neither intended to occur nor intended to not occur, but that just "happened".

does that help?  probably not  :)  oh well. ideas are far more complex than text-based communication tools will allow to be conveyed.

and humans aren't a part of that because we do not coinincide with one another very well, we live for pleasure rather than survival, we disrupt the equilibrium, we choose order and chaos, we choose good and evil, and we cause change willfully.

nature is neutral, humans choose not to be.

and uh, sorry tyrone, but you didn't get that right.  :)  thanks for trying though. as to everything being here to "aid, bring colour, joy" and whatever else you said; my experiences show that this is not the case. many things in this life hinder. many things bring depression and hopelessness. this is unfortunate, and i would much prefer it weren't so, but it is true.

~kakkarot

"A sword is a deadly weapon. Sword techniques are used to kill. This will always be the way it is. But I much prefer what Kaoru said over that truth."
~Kenshin Himura  - Rurouni Kenshin: Episode 01.

Secret of Secrets

Nita

Hi Tyrone
  I have been gone for a few days. I know that there is certain cultural aspects to cursing. It isn't what makes them work. Lets go back to the chicken. I go out one morning and find a red circle on the door and my dogs eating a chicken.(it would never last on the door).
  I think who would go in my yard and nail a chicken in a circle and look to see if my dogs had bitten him. I then think wow what a weird thing to happen and tell all my canadian friends. "Has anyone been nailing dead chickens to your doors?"
  I would still notice that my choices started changing. The dog who won the chicken getting ill. My credit card was maxed out paying the vet bills. I have my payments lost in the mail. My boss decides that only a weirdo would have a dead chicken nailed to the door and fires me.
  I have my car hit by the minister of my local church who is livid and uses me as a example for the Sunday sermon. My life has gone into a bad luck cycle in which I don't have any good choices.
  I try to find a job but no luck, my friends think I have turned weird and are acting differently, my dogs don't even like me,  and every computer with any company that I have a account with has lost my payment.
  The reason these things happen is the divine connection gets blocked or cut off. The person then can't access the good choices because he doesn't see the good choices anymore with the inner self. It puts them into different thought patterns which reinforce the things that are happening. They know something is wrong with life but don't know what.
  It doesn't matter whether they believe in the curse or not because it is attached to them. It doesn't matter how religious that they are because they keep disconnecting themselves. Removing the blockages so the divine forces can get back through is the only things that work. These blockages can be called any name that you want but changing the way the energy goes to the person is what removes the curses no matter what methods that you use.
  Methodologies is to get your innerself to accept that it needs tto do what you would like it to do. In this case removing curses or blockages. Methods and different schools of thought are there for that reason. God is there for everyone. I also know that there is more forces and energies than anyone would ever believe existed.
  Nita

www.astralhealer.com
www.hermeticuniversityonline.com

alchimiste

Nita,
Are you talking from factual experience or was your last post just a metaphore???

"The reason these things happen is the divine connection gets blocked or cut off"
Does this mean that realiation is a possible solution (as kakkarot would sugest?)
"It doesn't matter whether they believe in the curse or not because it is attached to them" So this gives you free reign to do what you wish?  or does the Tyrone ( be spiritual and cool/ rise above it kind of thing) rule the day?
To be honest Kakkarots point of view is the logic conclusion given your reasoning nita as does it really matter how we remove the blockages as long as they are removed!!!?
God doesn't give a sh*t as long as equilibrium is reached?

comments please as I'mthinking whilst I'm typing

Alchimiste


Alchimiste
(A student of Evolution)

Demande a Dieu et il te repondra....Cherches et tu trouveras....Frappe et l'on t'ouvrira.

Ides315

Hey, all.

First, thanks for the support, all.

I would like Nita's comments, in my frame of thinking, it should be the last option. Retaliation probably would not remove the negative influence that was set. Diffusion would be the best option. Also, if you are going to attack someone back, better make darn sure they are the cause of the problem. Or the root of it.

Would not reversing the negative energy (without adding to it) make the most since? You are not "going to war", and most intelligent people would drop it after awhile. Wars seem to go on a long time, injure innocents, and eventually nobody remembers why it started, just that it is, and everything that came from it.

I would also like to hear the different opinions on this.

Take care, all


Tyrone

Nita; That has to be the most beautiful thing that I have read on this board yet!  That is exactly it.  To further your scenerio where you left off is where the cultural thing comes into effect.  That happening to an average 35 year old male, would simply mean a midlife crisis type of thing, perhaps some antidepresants.  Not the solution, just the analysis of.  Now for someone to furthur that, whos friend had a similar experience, well, they would probably have paint coming off of the walls in a couple of weeks, and darkness comes into full bloom.  That is very well put Nita, however that is not a curse that is just a heavy negative attack, wich if you ignore, pierce through with spiritual awareness, or simply 'give it to God', will surely subside.  Maybe not within a day, but sooner than you may think. .... Nita, you are one of the true lights on this board, I really wish you would post more!


I really have been through that cycle so many times!  I have had friends who had to repaint their rooms each week, sell all of their posessions, go to church 5 days a week, and still live in absolute terror.  My personal involvement led me through some of the most horific experiences that are virtually unheard of.  I have been literarly thrown around like a rag doll, but not just me.  I have some hair that turned white at the tender age of 21...  I can only say that I do know how these things exponantiate, and what you can do to effectively stop it.  Further more I really have learned that it really is you that feeds this through your fear!  Its a disgusting cycle that needs to be stopped asap.  If you cannot handle it, you may need an elevated entity to pierce through this shroud.  That is when say, "God, I cannot handle it anymore, please take it, please take it now!".

ides; Retalitation if its through righteous anger is fine, and a must.  However to refer to dark ways is only a trap that will further and deepen and darken what you are experiencing now.  Trust in poetic justice, because sometimes, not only what goes around comes around, but sometimes it gaines a little momentum!  I wish you the best of luck in your journey, you really are not far off from real awareness!

karrot; Your last post is the worst thing I heard you say yet! :-)  I get dizzy just re-reading it..  I hope your recreational activities aren't clouding your posts.  ;-)  Your explanation sounds more of a caveman ranting.  They too would say "oh well. ideas are far more complex than text-based communication tools will allow to be conveyed."  <--  Afraid not, this is the age of education, learning and knowledge.  If you cannot write with eloquence, you should read Plato and study a little more.  Only knowledge expands the soul, knowledge through learning... isn't that why we are hear? ..you should guard more against spiritual ostentatiousness


Goodbye!

This will be my last post.  Several days ago I've had quite the eye openning experience, I should say more of a meeting with some of my friends.. who are always watching, of course.  End result is that there is no real point in overdoing what I inteded to do...  This board is simply infected with darkness.  I have been told that there were a few people that I could have reached, but the dark overcoat of all these posts sent them running, so most of the information I have posted has fallen on deaf ears..  No big deal, my intent and motive was pure so I will move on.  Its like Robert Bruce said in one of his projection 'things'.  If you take a picture and paste some stuff onto it as you would like, then when you project enter that picture, and it will be a reality for that brief time.  Now all these posts about demons only causes your mind to create these empty shells, now the darkness that does move amongst, will simply enter and robot those shells... and then you are in big trouble, and it snowballs from there.  

Robert Bruce goes out and experiences these things and writes about it, thats what he does, that is not what you have to do.  He provides real solutions for such instances for people in the pits of despair, the only problem is that most people who read about it become emotionally overwhelmed and begin creating, on any level.  Robert Bruce has done much in research, and his beautiful writing style has inspired and helped many, but, then of course there is that balance thing.  Robert, I fear that you may have spent too much time with this and are in need of some higher level 'refreshment'.  Its like the old adage, "If you lay with the dogs, you get fleas.".

At the very most I just hope that I may have introduced the idea of a 'lighter' place that all can enter.  The only way though, is through yourself!

bless all your hearts.

tyrone

-if you don't listen, you will have to learn-


Robert Bruce

G'day Forum Folks!

Just thought I'd drop in and throw a few pennies for thought...

I have had this debate with many people, and it is circular.  I am still waiting for anyone to present solid evidence based on experience and not belief and wishful thinking.

First, I would like to preface this post by suggesting that all who take offense to these PPSD related pages, and who accuse others of wallowing in darkness, catching fleas from dogs, and of creating evil beings because they dare to consider and discuss such matters, to avoid this section of the forums. These pages are for discussion of PPSD related matters, including evil spirits and etc.  They are also a place where people troubled by Negative spirit type problems can find help and advice. Open debate on these matters is always welcome, or course, but please ease up on the heresy charges and finger pointing, just because the subject matter herein does not fit in with personal beliefs on how the spiritual universe works.

If one follows the newage love and light approach too far, by refusing to acknowledge Negative entities and their activities, because you are afraid of creating and or attracting same into your life, you end up like a spiritual ostrich with its head firmly in the sand. This is both illogical and dogmatic, where open and progressive thought is required.  In time, if enough people followed the love and light approach to the exclusion of hard life experience and other viewpoints, all knowledge of the forces of darkness and their Neg minions would disappear, as would the few methods we have of avoiding and or defending against same.  But this would not stop the spread of darkness.  Nothing is ever learned about a subject if it is ignored and avoided.

Should we have the bible and other holy texts and spiritual books revised to remove all mention of hell and demons and darkness? Do you really think this would remove all evil spiritual beings from involvement with human life?  We know so little about these things, and even less about what can be done to help those afflicted with dark spiritual problems.  And our knowlege on these matters will not increase by avoiding the subject or burying it under an unworkable paradigm.  Sure, love and light do play a big part in spiritual existence, but this is not the be all and end all of everything.

This relates to the saying ' that the greatest thing the devil ever did was to convince humankind that he did not exist'.  Denying the existence of darkness simply gives it the freedom to do whatever it likes, and removes all hindrance to the spread of darkness.  

It might seem like one could remove all evil spirits from this world, if one followed the love and light paradigm closely, and by ridding the world of everything that reminds us of evil, or that teaches us about same, so no one could ever think about it. But have you considered what this would do to the world if this paradigm were faulty? Note that I strongly believe this to be a faulty and unrealistic paradigm. Out of sight and out of mind does not necessarily make something disappear.  This just makes it easier to live with something one finds difficult to accept.

The belief that all Negative entities and evil spirits are insubstantial thought forms, created by some people having bad thoughts and unspiritual lives, is a totally unworkable paradigm.  However, this neatly fits in with the love and light paradigm, and seems to have been invented to cover up serious flaws in same. This is because the evidence of the existence and activities of Negative spirit entities cannot be denied without generous doses of wishful thinking and irrational denial.

As to the 'getting fleas by sleeping with dogs' thing, well, this is partly true.  Sure, if you associate with bad company you are more at risk of attracting Negative attention. But what about the numerous cases where people come under Neg attack for no discernable reason. They just happen.  Sure, you can say that all these are caused by 'other people's beliefs' creating and feeding Negs, but this theory does not hold water in the real world.  We need practical solutions, not high-minded spiritual theories best suited to the heavens and other exalted states of being.  

It is very clear to me that Negative spirit beings are heavily involved in the karmic equation, with the application of same.  These beings are drawn to inflict negative karma on humans (suffering), just as all of humanity is involved in the application of karma to all other individuals. If this is correct, then it would be impossible to remove Negative entities through high-minded wishful thinking.  This would also be contrary to the laws of applied karma, and contrary to the purpose behind physical incarnation.  As I said in PPSD, if God wanted us to live lives of spiritual purity and security, He would not have put us down here in the physical universe in the first place. Did God make a mistake?  He would, instead, have put is in some lovely heavenly place where everyone is loving and nothing could ever hurt us. But the fact is that He chose to put us here in the dimension of hard life experience, Negs and all.  There must be a good reason for this.  

I think it is much more realistic to work with what we have down here, rather than to rely on wishful thinking to fix everything about life that we don't like or can't accept.

Please keep in mind that I did not write PPSD just becaue I thought it would be a neat book to write, or because I dabbled and experimented with dark forces.  The content of PPSD evolved during a lifetime of ceaseless spiritual attack, that began when I was about 3 or 4 years old. I am not the only one who has lived such a life.  Read the books by Whitley Streiber, eg, 'Transformation' and 'Communion', where he speaks of similar things, albeit from a different perspective.  But it is very clear to me that Whitley and I are talking about exactly the same thing.  What he calls 'visitors', I call 'Negs'. They are one and the same.  I would also like to point out that most of the great saints in history also lived lives of strong spiritual attack.  This even includes the dear departed 'Mother Teresa', who struggled against darkness all her life, and underwent a number of church exorcisms.

Any person who makes a strong spiritual statement with their life (or has potential to do same) will immediately attract the forces of darkness in some way or other.  This will often happen many years before such a life statement is even conceived, often in early childhood.  The reasons for this are two fold:  one can be likened to how positive and negative attract, how natural enemies (or predator and prey) gravitate towards each other.  The other reason is that to succeed in making significant spiritual progress, resistence is necessary. Neg forces provide the necessary resistence that allows a person to go beyond their normal mortal limits, to reach new heights of spiritual awareness and accomplishment, eg, spiritual evolution.  

If my past were changed, so that all dark spiritual attacks were removed, I would not be the same person I am today. I would certainly not have written any significant books or even be writing this post today. The difficulties and torment involved with my life, including dark spiritual attacks, have not only driven me in a particular direction, but have driven me to learn, to adapt, to grow stronger and wiser, and to overcome same.  



Take care, Robert.




Robert Bruce
www.astraldynamics.com

Ides315

Hey, all.

Thank you Robert, for myself, and everyone else going through similiar circumstances.

God bless.


Nita

Hi Everyone
  Alchimiste, it was a example. Tyrone mentioned a voodoo spell wouldn't work in a place where people didn't know what it was about. I showed that it would work albeit not in the same way but it still would work.
   Robert is correct that most of the people I have helped are not into the occult. They do seem to have these problems and end up learning things that they need to learn. It is a life lesson or a way to show them their path in some instances. In others it is because of the abilities they have.
  I have not had a fortunate life. A lot of people on a spiritual pathway sound wise because they have been capable of surviving all the things and lessons that have been thrown at them. I have also been badly treated by others because they say that I support peoples belief systems by trying to help them. I  looked at any help I did giving the people a chance to think.
  A neg attack or curses normally are not to kill anyone. They are to make you fearful, angry, and miserable. They are to inspire all the negative paths your life could take. People curse others because they have low self-esteem and have to harm others so they feel they are superior or better in some way.
 The Dalai Lama had a article on Beliefnet called "8 Things your Enemies wish for you". It was the best description of what someone who curses you would want to have happen that I have ever read.
  I always assumed anyone who was here reading this forum was looking for ideas. I don't feel it is negative or counter productive. I haven't seen anything to keep people being fearful.
  Nita

www.astralhealer.com
www.hermeticuniversityonline.com

chohan

quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone:

 Its like the old adage, "If you lay with the dogs, you get fleas.".





 Wouldn't suprise me if they said the same thing about Jesus.

peace,
cho




alchimiste

Thanks for the clarification Nita I can't help but agree with you. There are some forms of magic etc that can seriously effect you even if you are a staunch disbeliever although it helps if you do believe and the results are all the more devastating.

I have to sign off now to pick the kids up from school but I'll post later.

Alchimiste (devils advocate)

Alchimiste
(A student of Evolution)

Demande a Dieu et il te repondra....Cherches et tu trouveras....Frappe et l'on t'ouvrira.

Bjays_Angel

Hello everyone namaste,
Im Angel and I just joined this forum tonight. I been having some bad energys around me latley andI just dont know whats going on or the cause of this. I been very down and crabby and sad. I been feelig alot of negative vibes around me lately. My mom astrals to me alot and she has not been able to come through to me as clearly lately. The negative vibes is effecting it. I know my adopted dad is into witch craft and black magic and he is very mean to me he abused me as a child. I have not had contact with him in years. Is it possible hes sending me bad vibes? I been having night mares and unable to sleep lately just been very hard on me lately. Can anyone help?