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Author Topic: Neg related etheric implants (Spirit Guides?)  (Read 7756 times)
Robert Bruce
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« on: February 13, 2002, 05:27:32 »

G'day Donni, Forum Folks!

Nice to see our new moderator being active in the new forums.

A very good question, Donni, and it thus deserves a good answer.

I have never stated that I believe that there are no good spirit beings that might fit the bill of being spirit guides. But I have never seen anything that would lead me to believe that there is a heirarchy of spirit guides, and that every human being is assigned spirit guides from birth, to guide and protect.  I do, however, believe in the spiritual heirarchy above us, but not in the way that this is popularly conceived today.  My experience leads me to a more traditional conception of a heirarchy of deities, archangels and angels and masters, etc. This is pretty much the same thing as is popularly believed today, I know.  But its the bits between this and humanity that I think require further exploration. Note that I do plan to explore this area more in the future, and have been doing so for years.

However, I have known and read about many people who do seem to have some level of active spiritual guidance and support, and do not deny this. I have seen and experienced strong spirit interventions.  But my experience shows that this is not a universal given. It should thus not be taught as a given, because this is grossly misleading.

I have read the words of channelled spirits in books by Allen Kardek (various spirits, said to be of high degree) and Jane Roberts (Seth), but I take issue with some of their statements that defy personal experience.  These spirits state, for example, that everyone is born with at least one spirit brother/protector.  But I have seen and experienced way too much to believe this is true.  If you read my article 'Popular Model Conundrum' I may my thoughts clear on these matters. If this were true, and spirit guides and protectors were assigned to everyone at birth, then in many cases they seem to be doing a decidedly poor job indeed.

Following your own reasoning, it would also fit that if everyone were assigned good spirits (what you call spirit guides) to protect and assist people from birth, then they also must be assigned bad spirits from birth to hinder and harm, to provide opposite forces. In my experience, the popular monothestic approach to spirituality is unworkable in real life.  Its a beautiful concept, but somewhat akin to an ostrich sticking its head into the sand and seeing only what it wants to see, selectively.

In a nutshell, on the matter of spirit guides and the role they plan in the spiritual evolution of humanity, individually and collectively, my jury is still out gathering data and life experience. So forgive me if I leave this one hanging.

Further along these lines (man can I waffle:) I have argued all the above points at great length and depth, with some of the finest newage minds in the world, including my publishers and many published authors.  Without hard evidence, these arguments becomes circular as it is difficult for either side to provide enough evidence to prove or disprove key issues. It often comes down to a matter of faith, and to what one chooses to accept or not. In the above mentioned arguments, almost all points ground to an unresolved standstill, with neither side giving way. These arguments included the validity of spirit guides.  

The only point I always win hands down on is that (according to modern spiritual and newage doctrines) very small children and babies of pre-language age (and animals), should not experience neg psychic attacks.  A small child's spirit guide/protector 'should' by default prevent such attacks taking place.  But this does not happen, and such attacks take place regularly throughout the world. I have seen this happened, and aided and protected such children, numerous times. It was for this very reason that I deciced, over 15 years ago, to focus on children and on developing practical anti neg countermeasures that anyone could use to help protect them.

The importance of this evidence is that there are no understandable reasons for such attacks taking place, as per modern spiritual doctrines.  The reasons given, as per Kardek and Roberts, for any kind of neg spirit attack taking place, are that like attracts like and thus the victim has within them thoughts and emotions that are attracting negative spirit beings and allowing attacks to take place. In a nutshell, it is said that such people are listening to evil spirits and ignoring their spirit guides, and that this results in neg psychic attacks and etc.

My main point above is that small children and babies of pre-language age are incapable of holding such thoughts and of making such choices.  They are therefore incapable of consciously or unconsciously attracting bad spirits to them, this blowing the standard theory right out of the water.  This is because if any theory has exceptions, it is proven to have faults and therefore needs rethinking, yadda yadda yadda.

At this point, my opponents always cite karma and pre-life choices, in that for some reason such children have 'chosen' to experience neg attacks and influences at that age. Karma is another issue that I will not go into here, but it sounds reasonable, albeit unprovable and based on belief.  

Next we get into the debate as to whether or not we are helping if we try to protect such children.  Are we, by so doing, interfering with karma processes?  Many people, stumped for solutions, have said that if this were the case then such children are best left alone and unaided, to suffer their karma in peace, even unto death.  

As said, my jury is still out collecting evidence and thinking along these lines. But I know enough, and have enough evidence, to stand up and ask some serious questions on these matters. And I will keep asking them until I get some answers.


Take care, Robert.




 
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goku22
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2002, 21:49:44 »

"Following your own reasoning, it would also fit that if everyone were assigned good spirits (what you call spirit guides) to protect and assist people from birth, then they also must be assigned bad spirits from birth to hinder and harm, to provide opposite forces."

That was the only thing that you wrote that I have some dissagreement with. When I read that, my first thought was that existence itself provides that negative influence when neccesary. But I get what you're saying, because existence can also provide the positive when neccesary, through positive experiences, void of any guiding being. So I guess I actually agree, whoops.  Ben

 
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MJ-12
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2002, 15:24:56 »

zx
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Rob
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2002, 16:58:33 »

Hey, I just wrote a post on Kabalah, I feel like doing another. My other post can be found in the forum bugs and questions area, might help.
Have been wondering about this too, RB seems to always refer to negs as acting through the pillar of severity (-). Now I am certainly no expert on kabalah, but I will give this a shot:
Firstly, we do not exist on the positive side. The tree of life is a glyph representing everything in existance, with the positive being balanced by the negative. Evil is negative, but negative is not evil (make sense?). Following this, it is also incorrect simply to say that negative is evil and positive is good. Too much positive in the world we live in, can lead to aparthy and stagnation, too much negative leads to destruction and cruelty. Angels are the ultimate representation of positive forces (um, I think, not sure here as they are loving and love emanates primarily from tipahareth which is balance...um),  - they are constructive, nice, thoughtful and harm none. Demons are the ultimate representation of negative, which we see as very unbalanced - destruction gone crazy, completely thoughtless and without morals. However, each side has the same amount of power - it has to when you think about it, else the world we see would be unbalanced. Nature is a perfect example of a system in equilibrium, both positive and negative being easily seen, all in harmony. However, a wolk is not evil when it kills to survive as this is all it knows, it lives purely off instincts and is not intelligent. Demons (), however, are evil as their cruelty is for the sake of itself and for power, they are intelligent and mythology would suggest that this isn't all they have ever known.
OK I think that is some of the way there - but if anyone disaggrees on any points I would appreciate it if they could correct me!

 
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2002, 21:08:57 »

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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2002, 21:08:57 »



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Rob
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2002, 23:06:52 »


"However, as for negs being part of the pillar of Severity, I'll have to respectfully disagree on that one. "
Yeah I think you are right, I don't 'think' this disagrees with my last post, but demons can be found in the Qliphoth, which I know almost nothing about. I assume this is simply the attributes of the tree, takes to extremes and working for inbalance rather than balance, ie if you take severity to extremes you will find its corresponding aspect there. But the angels are the opposite of this, and they work for good, certainly not part of the Qliphoth. It is at this point that I become confused! But I have not worked out enough at the kabalah yet, am only really attempting to stab at it.

 
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Donni_Joy
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2002, 23:57:59 »

Robert (since you have been waxing lyrical and philosophic lately -- tuning up for Art, I bet

---- and also, forumers

-- and those 'old timers' who recall flaming threads on this in the past....!!!!!!

To word it in my words, what RB said in this post (below), is that for every good spirit, there is a negative. So there are angels, then there must be negs.  

Negs can also be big and demonic, or minor and irritating.

I am wondering how you can accept angels, but not accept the reality of helper spirits (of any sort) as well. Spirit guides is the word I am looking for.

I have read, as you know, your writings on this. The question I am posing is if there is an "order of negs" -- from small to large and powerful, then it makes sense there is an "order" for goodness. You claim we have angels, and that is it (and they rarely intervene in our lives) -- Spirit Guides might be "eager to please" discarnate souls -- but perhaps, just because you haven't had one personally, (that fulfilled your concept of what a Spirit Guide should know/do) doesn't mean they don't exist. To quote 'fact', there are many stories of angelic/spirit intervention from major to minor, for the benefit of the person/humankind.

I refer you now to the "Oracle of the Dreamtime" (by yours truly) and read the Dreaming about platypus. tongue

So... time permitting, and inclination.... curious to answers (especially from those who agree with Robert's perspective there are no spirit guides!)

Cheers
:)onni    

PS To quote you Robert: "A balance of perspective must be maintained in order to preserve reasonable logic and truth."


>G'day Folks!
>
>In my experience, yes, it can be said that when negative spirit beings attach to a human they usually cause some kind of physical symptom.  Core images are only a part of the process.  Every part of a person's minds eye inner metaspace represents a part of their physical body.  This is much how the part of the brain called 'homunculus' or 'little man' represents the entire physical body.  If the skull is opened with the patient awake (as is often the case with brain surgery) and a part of the homunculus touched or stimulated, the patient feels this in the part of their body this area represents.  
>
>What we are talking about here, neg attachment points, are often called 'etheric implants' today.  But anything that affects the subtle bodies in turn affects the physical body. In some cases, a neg etheric attachment point will cause a lump, tumor or skin blemish to manifest.  Historically, this is related to Stigmata Diabolis, or the devil's mark, which was used to identify witches during the Inquisition.  Now, while anti witch fear-driven zeal and greed obviously played a large part during the inquisition, there is some truth to Stigmata Diabolis, in that some neg attachments will cause various types of lumps, tumors, granulomas and skin blemishes, etc.
>
>Please note that there are also many natural causes for the above mentioned physical symptoms.
>
>I have uncovered a fair bit of historical information from many different areas, relating to something similar to Stigmata Diabolis (lumps and skin blemishes), from many different ages, cultures and religions.   Stigmata Diabolis is the early christian name for this affliction.  I have been unable to ascertain where the christian church got the idea behind stigmata diabolos, and have even queried the Vatican directly, with no luck at all. But, it is clear to me that anyone who carries out demonic exorcism regularly, as does the catholic church, would have to be blind not to notice the connection between skin tumors and possession.  This is because when a strong neg (in particular a demon) attaches to a person, a skin tumor of some kind will often appear almost instantly.  An area of flesh will swell up into a lump, and harden into a gristly granuloma type tumor over a few days.  And when the neg is exorcised, the tumor will burst and bleed at the instant the neg is detached. I have experienced this myself, and seen it too many times to doubt this.  
>
>As for mechanical devices being used, no, I've never come across this. But, if they exist they would more likely be used by physical beings and not spirit beings, ET's and etc.
>
>As for the existance of neg spiritual beings, and their power to affect the physical universe and its inhabitants, well, what one is prepared to accept is a personal choice. Most people find it more comfortable to disbelieve in negs entirely, and/or to severely limit what they believe are the capabilities of negs. This is human nature and quite understandable.
>
>However, if you believe in angels and good spirits, then by default you must believe in demons and bad spirits.  You simply cannot have one without the other.  You cannot take on 'half' the Kaballa and discard the rest.  Both spectrums, positive and negative, have similar levels of power.  A powerful angel, for example, can part the waters or a sea or split a mountain, and a powerful demon could do the same.  Both are also capable of materializing in and affecting the physical dimension quite strongly.  Trying to limit the power of negs to that of exerting a vague influence does not work, if on the other hand you believe that angels and good spirits have unlimited power.  A balance of perspective must be maintained in order to preserve reasonable logic and truth.
>
>I also think it is unwise to use the non-experience with negs of some people to discount negs, or to water them down to the status of mere thought forms or basically-harmless but occasionally-scary energy patterns. This provides an unrealistic perspective. This is a bit like saying that serious car accidents never happen, just because you have never had one and don't know anyone who has.
>
>Therefore, just because some RV'ers and OBE'ers have not had problems with negs, it does not follow that negs cannot or will not cause problems to other people while doing exactly the same things.
>
>In my opinion, while fear can be a factor with anyone's potential to experience neg problems, it is not the sole and primary neg attractor.
>Its not that simple.  Many other subtle factors can be involved. As I said in my other post (my retort to Greg), like may attract like but opposites also attract.  Evil may be attracted to evil, and good to good, but evil is also strongly attracted to good.
>
>Small children are a good example of this factor. A great many children fear the dark, but only a relatively small percentage of them ever experience serious neg related problems. If fear were the primary attractor, then neg problems would be far more widespread.
>
>In closing, I heartily agree that it is very unwise to dwell upon negs and such uncomfortable matters, but this should not be taken to extremes whereby negative forces and beings are intellectually uncreated and discounted.  Most of the people I know have very little or no direct experience with negs.  But this does not mean that encounters with negs cannot occur.
>
>
>
>Take care, Robert.
>
>

'"Dreams are true while they last, and do we not live in dreams?" In answer to Tennyson, I pose this question: truth lasts while there are dreams, and do we not dream in truth? ' from my whacky novel, "LUST"  http://dreamingspace.homestead.com/
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"A balance of perspective must be maintained in order to preserve reasonable logic and truth." Robert the Brute, 2002
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