Please, I do hope someone can help me.

[Fourthdimension]

i ve been meaning to reply cft but had lots on my hands at the minute. when i get home from work tonight i ll write a reply

[Fourthdimension]

from: CFTraveler on December 04, 2009, 04:13:02

Suppose you are eternally good, but want to experience.  Now, you understand, that to experience, you have to exist.  Now it's fine to be eternal bliss and all that, but to exist, there has to be 'something' that exists.  And for there to be 'something' there has to be 'nothing' too.  Because eternal something is not really something, as in 'something that is.'  For existence there has to be stuff like location.  And for 'location' there has to be stuff like time and space, and dimensions (because 'being', or 'existing' has to be 'somewhere', and that's all about time and space, etc.
With me so far?

OK since we are going in depth i may aswell get all inquisitive lol

i could write more but a pretty tired now its 4 am here lol and av been writing this since 2am haha
i ve been listening to the roar of gilmour and waters guitar and the all so famous pink floyd.
i think floyd is pretty philosphical in there music

haha cft i came up with another saying today. you see my boss has the computer table nailed to the wall cause he is an idiot and he asked me to get the printer cable through the gap but it did nt fit. so i spent an hour sliding this cable through holes mabe for pipes like a little maze until eventually i got it out. so i huffed and puffed up the stairs full of dust from the table and my boss saids you got it and i was like yeah getting that out was like swallowing a pin then trying to pick it up with my tongue wen its in my stomach and he was like wtf and i said it does nt matter am going home night haha

night xxx

I understand what you mean by if your eternally good and want to experience you first have to exist BUT (lol)
To say you need to exist is saying that they do not exist. so how can some one be eternally good and yet non existant. If we are consious beings how can we be just pure energy without existing. ok to comlpicate things say we are non existing at the stage your talking about and yet we are eternally good. how can one by good? is it like saying oxegyen is eternally good because it cannot harm us as it is not a manifestation?

ok i understand the first section but i ll ask questions even though i do understand just so we can get more in depth cause  i like this lol.

so to exist there has to be something to exist in - are you saying we create the something or something else has already created it.?

i understand that everything has its paradox and so there does have to be nothing for something to exist in but how would you define nothing? and what are you describing using the term something?

i understand there has to be time and space to exist and location. but does that location have to be on the physical?

do we create time and space as relvant to us or do we blend into another person or groups manifestation of time and space?

i think i told you about that time i felt that bliss. where i imagined by self splitting into a million particles scattering as far and wide and just feel the state of being not being any where but just been satisfied with the now.

briefly i do understand that first paragraph you wrote.

from: CFTraveler on December 04, 2009, 04:13:02
So now you want to exist.  Now, you can exist as a pure energy, that exists in a vaccum (or space, or whatever you can think of).  But pure energy is really not doing anything.  It probably is very boring being just undifferentiated energy, that encompasses everything.  Really, that's almost like being nothing.
But now you have a point of view.  This being somewhere (let's say a point in time) allows for one part of you to 'be'  and another part to 'not be'.  That's almost like 'observation'.  And so on and so forth- and then we come to the concept of 'experience'.  Experience is not just about being, (although you can 'be' anything, you have to divide yourself and observe parts of yourself to isolate things like 'photons', or 'colors' or anything- 'cause it's just energy.

oh i forgot to ask if am not existing how do i know i want to exist? lmao

by saying just been an encompassing energy is been like nothing is like saying wat u were before that in the first stage is less than nothing lol

and at this stage we have not experienced and boring is an experience so  we are already experiencing to call this boring

when you say one part is existing and what part not - well i ve always thought at every stage there is a part of me like here i am in the physical and some of me is in other planes as my sub conscious and that even tho my astral is in me wen i am awake daily it is still existing just in the same physical body as me.

like having two cars in one garage the car is step in i start up and it becomes active

anyways it then goes further than those planes all the way back to nothing. i belive i leave like a trail in which i can trace back or instantly become consious at with right experince. am i right?

do you mean that soon as i am concieved my awareness is in every atom or sub atomic particle until my birth and with the growth of my cells the more conscious i become in the body and aware. is that what you mean by the photon thing?

i briefly understand the second stage

Ok, now it gets more complicated.
Let's say, that as God, you want to experience emotions- such as Joy, Happiness, and Bliss.  Now, this isn't the same Bliss that we think of when we think of God, this is the bliss or happiness you feel when something good happens to you.  (Now I've jumped to humans, I didn't want to make it more long and boring that it needed to be.)  Anyway, as God, you want to feel human emotion- but there's a problem, that for there to be the perspective of 'good' or 'happy', there has to be 'perspective'.
What is perspective?  The ability to come over here, look at something, and say 'this is good'.  The thing is, that if everything is judged 'good', there is no 'good', there is just 'is'.
So then we must admit that to experience 'good' we have to have the concept of 'suffering (or bad, or what you don't like)' to compare it with.
And then, we have all the duality (which is not really duality, it's just experienced as such) we talk about in other forums.

i understand this and dont have any questions for once haha

from: CFTraveler on December 04, 2009, 04:13:02
Now let's back up to the concept of God.
If we have the concept of God as eternally Good, omnipotent, omniscient and eternal (and I do, so I'm going to work with my concept of God, yours may be different), then you know that this means that when God chooses to incarnate as you, (or experiences what is like to be 'Fourthdimension') that the experience of God is in the core of your being, and your experience of God may be not in your conscious awareness- but there is a connection to the 'God' part of you, your soul, that is the essence of the Concept of God, all Good.
So this part of you, is trying to guide you to your highest good, and has chosen to give you willpower to either ignore this part of you or follow it, or (like many of us) spend your life trying to find out what the plan is for you, in other words, to do God's will, not because of any fear of punishment (because as God's creation or extension, punishment is not even in the picture.

i have the same view of god aswell

i belive that god is me but does not choose to incarnate as me instead the part of god that i am consious with i direct that part of god to experience and incarnate as art of me?

do you mean that god is my good. my soul and (i) my consious slef becomes astray from all earthly temptations and influences. whislst my soul trys to steer my a right towards all perfectness and yet i decide to taint my all so perfect self with the influence of society to make my self imperfect

but was imperfection not the idea when we first decided to experience we left perfection and all good to experience bad and evil and to experience . so to stray from omething so perfect leaves us at the dueality of imperfection.


oh this is irrelvant i guess but if all good and perfection is in god then does that make everything outside of god imperfect and bad because if there is good or perfection outside of god then god is nt all perefction and good as there is some good and perfect existing outside of god?

i understand this paragraph

from: CFTraveler on December 04, 2009, 04:13:02
But let's say that you choose to follow appearances (the world seems limited, so you feel you need to steal, the world seems evil, so you feel the need to kill, etc.) now part of you, the part with direct access to your divinity, knows this is error thinking, but the temporal part of you goes 'awry'.
Now, let's go back to the 'divine part' of anyone who commits transgressions- like Hitler, for example.
Now this guy was at least partly responsible (there were others equally evil, like Himmler and Mengele, for example).  These guys caused immense suffering- not only because of the people they killed, but the people that felt the need to follow their orders, the people who lost family, the people that were forever changed, (and by forever I mean how countries functioned, political effects, etc.)  The suffering caused wasn't only (and I don't mean 'only' lightly, I mean that it was more encompassing that we can even imagine) didn't stop with the people killed- every bit of pain would be felt by the soul of this person who is connected to what can be considered immense love and goodness.

i understand this. you mean when a man kills its like tearing off the finger nail of god but for all them people to die under htlers command is like cutting gods juglar the whole bdoy feels it and trembles (i know god is not a manifestation lol)
and we are all part of that body and wether we aknowledge it or not we understand that everything done under the command of hitler is immoral and not part of the imperfection we want to experience

from: CFTraveler on December 04, 2009, 04:13:02
Do you, or can you see that?  If you are truly a good person who wants to make the world better, but see your hand suddenly lift up a knife and kill someone, wouldn't you be horrified?  But, and here's the kicker, if you are as good as God must be, then instead of cutting off your hand you absorb the pain this act caused, because after all, the victim of the 'hand' is also part of you?  (Remember, as God you don't 'end', it's just an illusion).  So this would be the reason why Hitler will suffer every instance of pain that he caused to others, because all the others are part of him.  And it's not only the pain of what he did, but the pain of all that happened because of what he did.

i thoght we agreed to just experience not to make the world better or with time does out otiuves for existing change?

do you mean that on our journey back to god(even tho we have never been away from god) we need to accept what we have done wrong and make compensations and retributions to become our perfect soul once more

ok you paint a wall white then black then white again. is the lackness still not there under our newly painted sheen of white?

in this case if we are perefct (lets just go with the metaphor of white) then decide to be imperfect or evil to experience(lets just say black) now we paint over our black with white or we put right our evil sins and call our self perfect

how can one be perfect if he has already experinced and took part in evil ? does the experience not stay with him. for him to deny evil is for him to deny his acts of evil and ultimatly his compensation to his crimes

i did understand all of that but thought about asking questions lol

[CFTraveler]

OK since we are going in depth i may aswell get all inquisitive lol

I'll try to answer but it's late for me too.  And I'm sleepy.

haha cft i came up with another saying today. you see my boss has the computer table nailed to the wall cause he is an idiot and he asked me to get the printer cable through the gap but it did nt fit. so i spent an hour sliding this cable through holes mabe for pipes like a little maze until eventually i got it out. so i huffed and puffed up the stairs full of dust from the table and my boss saids you got it and i was like yeah getting that out was like swallowing a pin then trying to pick it up with my tongue wen its in my stomach and he was like wtf and i said it does nt matter am going home night haha

night xxx

I see he suffers from ID10T syndrome.   

I understand what you mean by if your eternally good and want to experience you first have to exist BUT (lol)
To say you need to exist is saying that they do not exist.

Remember, existence in this example doesn't mean that it's 'not', it means it's not 'manifest'.  Like eternity- We can think of it, but we can't understand it, because to understand it is to assign time and place to it (to grasp, comprehend, grab) is to make it limited.  And eternal can have no limits.  This is a paradox and I don't know if it can be understood- but the Hindus called it Atman, and the Kabbalists called it Ein Sof.

so how can some one be eternally good and yet non existant.

Because existence is limited- you have to exist in time and space, and this means 'not eternity'.  I know, it's semantically nonsense, but one day your brain goes *pop* and you get it.  Goodness is a quality that we understand, but I think that when it comes to God, it's something more, but I can't come up with any word that describes what 'God's goodness' must be, because to describe is to limit, and that's not easily put into words.

If we are consious beings how can we be just pure energy without existing.

That's a great question.  To be energy we have to exist, that means that energy is not all God is.  It's what God Manifests as, but not all.  If it were all, then God would have limits.  And then it would be another view of God, not the one I'm trying to share with you.

ok to comlpicate things say we are non existing at the stage your talking about and yet we are eternally good. how can one by good? is it like saying oxegyen is eternally good because it cannot harm us as it is not a manifestation?

Exactly, Good is the only way to describe something that has to be, but I don't have another word for infinite Good.  Some people call it Joy but that's another limited word.  Maybe eternal potential for Good is the right description, but it's still limited.

ok i understand the first section but i ll ask questions even though i do understand just so we can get more in depth cause  i like this lol.

That's OK.  I like that you like it.   

so to exist there has to be something to exist in - are you saying we create the something or something else has already created it.?

I would say that God manifests as the 'matrix' as much as the 'beings', all is created by God, but not separately- God creates by extension.

i understand that everything has its paradox and so there does have to be nothing for something to exist in but how would you define nothing? and what are you describing using the term something?

By 'nothing' I mean something that has not manifested (if I say 'yet' here comes time to screw it all up, lol) and by 'something', I mean an object with limits, that has a beginning and an end.  Matter perhaps, energy maybe.  Or maybe not, since according to scientists energy can't be destroyed, so it always must have 'been', except not in 'time and space'.  It's too complicated to try to 'make it scientific', but when I say 'something' I mean energy manifesting in ways that can be observed, or measured.  You can look at 'something' (or measure something) and know it's there.  That is limited manifestation (this chair has not always been, three hundred years ago, it didn't exist yet, so we know it's an object.  Some day it'll not be there, so it's an object that is subject to time and space.  Now pure energy, we don't really know if it's inifinite, although scientists used to think so.
So when I say 'nothing', I don't mean 'it can't exist', I mean it's 'more' than just 'existence'.  It's just a different way to look at the world.

i understand there has to be time and space to exist and location. but does that location have to be on the physical?

As far as I know, the physical is the definition of 'location'.  That's why quantum physicists came up with 'nonlocal' and metaphisicians came up with (my favorite) supralocal.  To indicate that something has no location, so for a certain amount of time, it doesn't exist.  Mind-blowing stuff.

do we create time and space as relvant to us or do we blend into another person or groups manifestation of time and space?

Depends on who you ask.  If you go with religious thinking, (and we seem to be doing this for now) you could say that God manifests in the physical as timespace, and as us, and God creates through us in a consensus reality kind of way, and the problem of time becomes something that depends on our interaction with it- with objects and each other all at the same time.  A really smart guy described it as time being phase-dependent, not on location, but on the interactions between people- so it's not linear and it's not circular, it just depends on where we are with each other.  Of course this guy is way smarter than me (by a loooong shot) and I barely understand what he means.  Or rather, I make it mean what I think it means.
  I told you I was sleepy.

i think i told you about that time i felt that bliss. where i imagined by self splitting into a million particles scattering as far and wide and just feel the state of being not being any where but just been satisfied with the now.

That Bliss may be a description of the 'Goodness or Love' that I was trying to describe with very little luck.  Feeling it is better.   

oh i forgot to ask if am not existing how do i know i want to exist? lmao

Because you're here, aren't you?  So it must mean that you wanted to.  Seriously, there is no coherent answer.  This is purely religious belief on my part.  The way I see it, God doesn't make mistakes, so if we're here it's because at some 'primordial' point we wanted to.  I realize some people don't think this way, it's what makes me different from many religious people.

by saying just been an encompassing energy is been like nothing is like saying wat u were before that in the first stage is less than nothing lol

But the thing is that 'less' is a comparative, and you compare 'unlimited' with 'limited', you can't say that 'limited (something)' is less than 'unlimited' (nothing).  'More' or 'less' can't be used, because they are limited concepts.  I know, it sounds like the opposite of what your intuition would tell you, but 'nothing' doesn't mean 'less', it means something indescribable.

and at this stage we have not experienced and boring is an experience so  we are already experiencing to call this boring

Well, that was just my opinion, but 'being' without 'doing' sounds boring to me.  Just a description.

when you say one part is existing and what part not - well i ve always thought at every stage there is a part of me like here i am in the physical and some of me is in other planes as my sub conscious and that even tho my astral is in me wen i am awake daily it is still existing just in the same physical body as me.

Exactly.  Part of you is temporal, part eternal, but both are you.

like having two cars in one garage the car is step in i start up and it becomes active

If the gasoline or 'starter' are your conscious awareness.  A synchronicity thing.  Once they're 'in sync' they function as one.

anyways it then goes further than those planes all the way back to nothing. i belive i leave like a trail in which i can trace back or instantly become consious at with right experince. am i right?

Sounds right.

do you mean that soon as i am concieved my awareness is in every atom or sub atomic particle until my birth and with the growth of my cells the more conscious i become in the body and aware. is that what you mean by the photon thing?

I have to go back and look, I don't remember saying something like that.

i belive that god is me but does not choose to incarnate as me instead the part of god that i am consious with i direct that part of god to experience and incarnate as art of me?

Well, I think God manifests as everything and everyone, but your temporal self isn't aware of this, but your eternal self is, and the trick is to consciously connect with that part of yourself. 

do you mean that god is my good.

Always, and unconditionally.

my soul and (i) my consious slef becomes astray from all earthly temptations and influences. whislst my soul trys to steer my a right towards all perfectness and yet i decide to taint my all so perfect self with the influence of society to make my self imperfect

Not sure- it seems like it sometimes, but I don't think you can make yourself imperfect, you just think you can.  In the eyes of God, you're perfect.

but was imperfection not the idea when we first decided to experience we left perfection and all good to experience bad and evil and to experience . so to stray from omething so perfect leaves us at the dueality of imperfection.

It makes us experience what we call duality, but since this is going to end so will imperfection, and what will remain will not be dependent on time and space, therefore our perfection still remains.  If 'remains' even is a word I can use....

oh this is irrelvant i guess but if all good and perfection is in god then does that make everything outside of god imperfect and bad because if there is good or perfection outside of god then god is nt all perefction and good as there is some good and perfect existing outside of god?

No, because there is nothing outside of God.  We think there is, because our basis of understanding of reality, but from the point of view of eternity, it's like reading a book- a really juicy book filled with sex and violence- while we're reading it it seems real, but once you put it down you realize it really wasn't.

i understand this. you mean when a man kills its like tearing off the finger nail of god but for all them people to die under htlers command is like cutting gods juglar the whole bdoy feels it and trembles (i know god is not a manifestation lol)
and we are all part of that body and wether we aknowledge it or not we understand that everything done under the command of hitler is immoral and not part of the imperfection we want to experience

I'm not sure of the meaning of this, but now I'm really almost passing out.

i thoght we agreed to just experience not to make the world better or with time does out otiuves for existing change?

I personally think we should make the world better, not because we can, but because we've screwed it up enough.  But essentially, from the point of view of God, it doesn't matter.  I know this is difficult to accept, and you don't have to.

do you mean that on our journey back to god(even tho we have never been away from god) we need to accept what we have done wrong and make compensations and retributions to become our perfect soul once more

I don't think we need to make retribution, because we are experiencing this 'wrongness' and becoming intimately aware of it.  From both sides.  Not because of 'retribution' the whole one hand with the other, but because if you cut your finger it's gonna hurt, and you will feel it.

ok you paint a wall white then black then white again. is the lackness still not there under our newly painted sheen of white?

I'm not sure of what you mean by this.  But if it means what I think it means, it's a long answer, and I might not know it anyway.

in this case if we are perefct (lets just go with the metaphor of white) then decide to be imperfect or evil to experience(lets just say black) now we paint over our black with white or we put right our evil sins and call our self perfect

Let's use a slightly different metaphor- we are light (pure) but we dim our lights.  Now darkness isn't 'something', it's just the 'lack of light'.  Light is something, darkness is nothing.  So we can only be 'light' or 'less light' or 'no light' but we can't be dark.  So you either turn on the light or turn it down.  But of course this is only a metaphor.

how can one be perfect if he has already experinced and took part in evil ?

Because in this case evil is the same as 'dark' it doesn't objectively exist- you can do evil but not be evil.  And if you can do evil you can do good, (back to turning the light to 'full on', 'dark' doesn't stain you because it doesn't exist.  If you have turned the lights down, you can always 'turn them back on'.  Sorry about the metaphor, but I'm really passing out.

does the experience not stay with him. for him to deny evil is for him to deny his acts of evil and ultimatly his compensation to his crimes

Of course.  Experience is always going to be there, until it has been reconciled somehow.  But 'compensation' has a different context.  You can't say that something temporal is going to stay on an eternal being, it's just not 'fair' or in terms of energy, it's not balanced.

i did understand all of that but thought about asking questions lol

I just hope tomorrow I remember what I wrote now.  Hee hee.

[Fourthdimension]

lol i was gonna reply the day you wrote this but ended up getting to drunk to press the keys lol. i read the post and everything is made alot clearer by your answers

but i am gonna start a new topic from this discussion i was aving with my cousin see shes a psychologist and she said that
if a person walked the streets with a cross on there back and sadi they were jesusnot only would he be sectioned but that he would be giving medication to change his belives

i said to her so are you saying tablets can change belives ect ect and then it all came down to the below question

is belive in a social context or biological or is it psychological? and if it is biological then does that mean the chemicals within us predetermin our belives?

a stupid question for me to ask on a site full of people who have strong belives as do i but anyways

thought you would be interested cft so check out the thread

[CFTraveler]

thought you would be interested cft so check out the thread

I can't find it.  Can you link it over here?

[Fourthdimension]

yh sorry cft i eneded up getting drunk and so never had a chance to make the thread here it is anyways

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_world_religions/is_believe_biological_pyscologhical_is_it_socially_influenced-t30515.0.html

take care

i was drunk wen i wrote it so sorry if it does nt make sense

x

[mr28]

I believe in a supreme being or GOD. I also believe that man has created this image of god that people fear. The GOD that I believe in is forgiving and any punishment I believe is like karma and and carried into the next life/lives until it is repaid. Listen to yourself and you will know the answer. Peace.