The Lord is My Light --REVISITED

[Adrian]

Greetings Inguma!

Thanks for your response

My position is much more fundamental than your own it seems. LDS is a "packaged religion" just as christianity is a "packaged religion" - or "belief systems". By definition, most religions observe and teach the words of a deity (not THE God in the Kabbalistic, and Divine sense) and delivered as the words of a prophet, and interpreted by the church.

Now notwithstanding the religious perspective, and putting that aside for a moment, here is where the situation becomes much more complicated. It is likely that many of these prophets, e.g. the person known as "Christ" (and erroneously "Jesus"), were in fact great Masters or Adepts just as Hermes Trismegistus and Buddah were, among others. There have of course been other and more recent Masters or Adepts such as Franz Bardon. The teachings of these great Masters were, in my opinion, much more in line with God in the Divine sense, than the god portayed by christianity and other religions. In other words, the true word of these great people has been subsumed by a whole alternative interpretation of their legacies, most notable that of the christian bible which is the human written basis of christianity. The Old Testament, or at least the early books of it, where in fact much closer to the Kabbalah (and also form the basis of the Jewish Torah), and accordingly, rather than intended to be taken literally, were rather symbolic Ancient Hebrew. Genesis I (one) is an excellent example of this. Most of the bible, and all of the new testament is, in my opinion, entirely the work of man in building the christian religion. Christianity has been contrived for and to control the masses, and, for example, until around 350 AD it taught reincarnation. The christian church then realised that they could control people, and make them follow the christian dogma if they devised a "heaven" and "hell" concept, the latter being the place people were told they would go if they were not good christians or dared to follow alternative spiritual paths.

So the point is, christianity is a manufactured religion for the masses, and has very little, if anything, to with the quest for spiritual truth and perfection. Indeed, I have to point out, that christianity has resulted in more deaths and attrocities throughout the ages, than all the wars put together. Catholics murdering protestants and vice versa, the witch hunts, of a few hundred years ago, modern day Northern Ireland - need I go on?

You talk about teaching children the "good points" about christianity. My response is simple. Any good points that christianity might have, are the realities of other people, their ideas of what is "good" and cannot be taught as fact when they are not facts at all.

The only true and enduring religion is ones own discovered spiritual truth and which cannot be taught by others. These spiritual truths and quest for perfection can only be realised by work done with ones own spirit and individuality, and from what learns from experience in the physical, Astral and Mental realms as human being, Soul and Spirit.

To teach people christianity as it were a fact is no different to teaching them that extra terrestrial aliens are a fact, Atlantis is a fact and so on. In fact it is likely that the latter two are more factual than christianity itself. Christianity is therefore a work of fiction, and no responsible person would teach it to their children as fact.

Now here is where, with respect, you miss the point entirely as most people have done:

quote:I just hope you are teaching them to see the good things in stuff like christianity.

You cannot teach children or anyone about packaged belief systems or religions as if they were fact!

Spiritual truth, realisation and ultimately perfection, can only be found within the person themselves. Each and every person must first disgard all dogma, fiction, hearsay etc., and discover spiritual truth, realisation and ultimately perfection for themselves. No religion, no book of teachings and no other person can do that for them. Where books are invaluable is where they give guidance as to how and where to discover these things for themselves, without actually influencing the outcome. Many great works such as the Kabbalah, Hermetic works and of course metaphysical works such as Astral Dynamics do exactly that. Those books are "maps" and "beacons" if you will, to finding your own true path.

I would go as far as to say that christianity has a great deal to answer for in preventing people from pursuing there own spirtitual paths, and more often than not persecuting people who feel the need to do so, in many different ways - including at school, and informing people and true seekers that they will surely burn for all eternity in hell for their blasphemy.

The person known as "Christ" was probably a high Adept or Master.

In summary then - you cannot "teach" something as a fact when it is not a fact, but rather the collective ideas of many people over the centuries - much of which has become distorted. And further, it is for each and every person to find their own spiritual path, truth and realisation by looking within themselves, and from then on discovering their own true path in this and many other realms of reality, and over as many lifetimes as it takes to accomplish. Such a person will be a much more sincere, pure and virtuous person, than any indoctrinated product of christianity or any other religion  - including the LDS.

Thank you for asking about my own children and their spiritual path. All of them have rejected christianity of their own accord, after several years of being taught it at school. I have never sought to influence them in this, but have always answered all questions honestly to the extent I can do. My youngest two sons ask alot of questions about astrophysics and evolution, but are not yet ready to pursue a more in depth path. My eldest son, aged 11 years, on the other hand, studies just about everything to do with evolution, astrophysics, metaphysics and spirituality generally, and has a phenomenal understanding of all these matters. I am certain he was advanced along these paths in previous incarnations, and is picking up where he left of at an early age. He was recently subjected to advanced testing at school, and has the knowledge and comprehension level of a 17 year old, and more so in spiritual matters. He acquires this information in his own dedicated and relentless quest for the truth by reading books, and in particular be means of Internet searches for information - which information he never, ever stops seeking. I am sure you can appreciate that my children will continue their own spiritual paths, and be very fine people (as they already are), with more virtues and spirituality christinianity ro any other packaged, dogmatic, belief system could ever give them.

I hope that has clarified my position somewhat

Kind regards,

Adrian.

[Mobius]

G,day all, I noticed no-one has seemed to had a look at the link
I posted on the 1st page of this topic.
By the looks of things Adrian allready knows & probably doesnt need
to read it, so Daniel & Inguma could you have a quick look please &
tell me what you think?
Daniel, we got into this debate a little when I 1st joined this
site & you posted your LDS information & website, I checked yours
out & told you where I stand & my invovlement in it, I know its
a long summary on the "holy grail" but really, will you only look
at one point of view, just because its what your told?

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

[PeacefulWarrior]

Mobius-

I visited the link which you posted on the previous page and found it to be quite interesting.  Actually I, along with most others on the LDS faith, also know that Christ was married and most likely had children.  Unlike Catholics, we feel that men-priests, everyone- should me married if at all possible.  We feel that family is a vital component to our spiritual growth and thus we believe that Christ was no exception, since he was an example in all things.

The article was very interesting, although I have never given much thought to an blood lines relating to his offspring.

Despite the way everyone wants to view "packaged belief systems" which I feel the LDS faith is not, although it would definetly appear to be to outside points of view... I think the bottom line, speaking of the quest for truth and enlightenment, is that God works from the inside out.  No matter how you open the door to growth, as long as it comes from the inside and entails, as Adrian said, scrutinizing introspection...it doesn't really matter how it happens.  Look on the inside of youself, know thyself...love thyself, purge any negativity and become one with God.  This is the goal.

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

[Mobius]

G,day Daniel, yes my Uncle who is an LDS priest had a "partner" for
a number of years & it seemed to work out ok.
Well, you seem to be a lot more open minded than some of my relatives
are, so I,m not sure if its a completely different type of L.D.S
over there & here or what? So maybe they need to catch up a bit
over here in Aus.
Anyway it all works out in the end, all the best on your journeys.


Mobius

[SteppenWolf]

Hell - I didn't know about this multiple gods thing - I must look that up!  Thanks Daniel!

LDS are pretty darn cool for a Church (did you know that their people are the international experts in translating Islamic texts into English?) but one thing makes me a bit sad and it's that they are so down on reincarnation.

I guess every church has to be wrong about something (IMHO natürlich!) though there are of course dissenters...
http://www.greaterthings.com/JJDewey/Eternal_Lives/

Out of interest - I attended a lecture on Wicca (ie modern witchcraft) and was very happy to see them blow away a ton of myths like being dead against Christianity etc.  Only the blind hate the other religions, the decent people see the commonality...

Cheers mate!

[Violet]

Dear SteppenWolf,

Did you know your AKA is the same as a very popular Canadian band from the early to mid 70's?  Steppen Wolf never made it that big outside of Canada.  

Regards,
Violet

[Mobius]

G,day all, hey Steppenwolf, yes, lend us your " magic carpet "
for a ride, we all feel we are "born to be wild".
On the multiple gods topic, it seems that many of our earliest
cultures had multiple gods.
The ancient Egyptians with the nine gods of Heliopolis, the greeks,
the early romans/byzantines,India who,s many gods apparently used
"Vimanas"/spacecraft to get around.Personally the idea of more than
one God sits better with me, as it bypasses the chicken & the egg
theory.

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

[Adrian]

Greetings Mobius!

I just asked in another thread whether Steppenwolf was "Born to be Wild"

BTW - I did read that link you posted, thanks very much - most interesting!

As for multiple Gods - it still doesn't get around the "who came first" situation at all if you think about it. And I have thought about it in depth for nearly 40 years

I firmly believe that there is only one true "God", and who is the great Creator and Master of the Universe. The powers and presence of God are so vast as to be incomprehendable to all but the greatest Adepts and Masters. This God is the Divine.

There could well be many other deities or "demi-gods" however - I believe Robert Bruce has met several of them himself on his Astral travels.

Pagan type organisations fundamentally believe in the "One", and their pantheons of gods are all aspects of the "One" as manifested in a mascular and feminine form. They are entitled to their opinions, and which I respect, but I do think that Paganism in its various forms follow a very great over-simplification of the Divine reality.

Kind regards to all,

Adrian.

[PeacefulWarrior]

About the "who cam first question"...I believe there was no beginning nor will there be an end, but don't ask me to explain it, give me a few years!

Ps-I think it would be safe to say that Steppen Wolf made it pretty big outside of Canada.  "Born to be Wild" and "Magic Carpet Ride" are staples of classic rock and are still used today in commercials and films in the US... (Ie. Sketchers Shoes used "Magic Carpet" in a recent commercial.)

Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio Maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.

[Mobius]

G,day Adrian,

Sorry mate,( for the plagiarism )I havn,t got around to reading &
contributing on all forums as yet & theres only one thing worse
than plagiarism & thats when the reader isnt aware of the original.
On the positive side, looks like just the mention of the name
Steppenwolf brings back all sorts of great memories for a lot of us
in here, even though they retired a year after I was born 1972,
they left an imprint on me for life.
The multiple gods topic is big one on its own, not that I believe
in them more than Monotheistic concepts, it just sits a bit better
with me.Yes it still raises the question, who comes first & that they
all seem to have a central male & female, who have many lesser gods
in tow.But the single God theory runs into the same problem, who
made God? What was before God? Why only one? not very politically
correct are they, especially from a females perspective.Why not a
female God? Seems they have more experience in organic creation
than males do.In most bibles it says in GENESIS, "we" will make
man/human beings in "our" image or "like us" or to "resemble us",
who is "us"?
I,ve read about how they (scientists) did an experiment to create
life from nothing but an electric charge, where they had
completely sterile containers placed in a vacuum & fired charges
that simulated lightning into it, which created these little
crystal type creatures.They were single cell organisms that rapidly
multiplied an incredible feat!
So I come to this conclusion, in nature, when a "something" comes into existence it usually comes in 2 forms, single cell & multi-cell organisms, either making copies of itself or having a male & a female & a crossing over of information.

I am going to have to cut my post short as I,ve run out of time,
but I,d be interested in hearing your comments Adrian & everyone
else of course!

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

[Rob]

Mobius!

When you have only one ultimate God you can get around the idea of "who created that God" by saying simply that time does not exist at the highest dimension where He/She/It seems to dwell. To try and assign a gender, yeah thats a human concept. Such a being would be so far from the normal human concept of consciousness we have really no chance of comprehending it. I think that saying He is just a usefulness, you can as well say She but the masculine side of humanity has been in dominance for most of the last 2000 years, so it would figure from this male perspective that God is great and over all others and therefore a He.

I have never heard of that scientific experiment, it sounds quite amazing though! Have you got any links to it? I would love to read more about it.

Oh yeah, the Genesis bits where it says "we" created. Did you also know that in the original hebrew there are many different names for God - but these are not used in the english translations. The we which genesis refers to are the Elohim, vast spirit being who are suppose to be the builders of God, creators, I think. God created the universe, and once you have a universe full of consciousness ready to do your bidding, all that's needed is the Word and they do the creating for "him"....

Lastly, the idea of multiple Gods, well I think at least a few of them are created by humanity. And God is so, so vast, it makes just as much sense to pray to the one God like Islam as it does to pray to a certain aspects of God represented symbolically like Hindus do. Whether these aspects enjoy a seperate identity to the one God, well maybe they do, but I think again these fleshy minds of ours start to fail at times like this. Duality, like an electron can be a particle and a wave, perhaps like Krishna can be seperate from God and still in mind and heart part of the One? Although we are all part of the one, only on the physical dimention, so maybe dieties are the same only on a higher level and so encompassing "more" of God? I dunno, just guessing

ps Do pagans have a female God as the highest? I know almost nothing here but am guessing they are much closer in touch with mother earth than the male dominated religions, like (old?) Catholicism.

[Mobius]

G,day Inguma,I,m trying to track down that article on that
experiment, it is an incredible thing.
Yes I know about the Elohim but it just keeps going doesnt it?
Who created the builders of God?
And yes the Pagans do have many sects where the Goddess assumes
the primary role,she goes by many names Diana,Cerridwen,Artemis,Isis,
Hecate,Cybele,Selene,the Lady or Great Mother & some of the earlier
converts to Christianity called her Brigid or Mary.
But they still have the male aspect, its just that some hold the
female above the male.

All the very best on your journeys

Mobius

[PeacefulWarrior]

Ah!  I just wrote an entire introduction to this post and then lost it because I tried to post without having entered a subject.  So here is the BREIF intro:

I will admit that this post, or at least the majority of what I have written about, is a little off base..but I am the author of the post "The Lord is My Light" in which I shared my method of "self defense".  I guess I should have been more descriptive of what I mean by calling on the Lord and His light.

The "power" and "protection" I rely on by calling on Jesus Christ comes from the way I try to live my life.  In all things, I try to emulate the Lord- by loving, serving, sacrficing, and searching for my calling...and it's this "personal righteousness" I draw on on those occassions when I feel negative energy trying to hold me down and /or instill fear, the greatest obstacle, on my path...

The bottom line is that I call on the SOURCE when I am "attacked" and I am sure that there exists beings so powerful and dark that I woudln't know what to do, and then I would require protection that I cannot even comprehend as of now...but this hasn't been the case for me thus far, thank goodness.

Now some musings on...well, everything on my mind this evening:

I think it's so funny the way everyone still attacks Christians.  I have found that the majority of members in this site are very tolerant, open minded people...truth seekers.  Then we have those who are definitely riding high on their own egos and the fact that, because of their own personal knowledge, they feel in some way superior to those who are on different paths and different levels, they ridicule others paths or at least speak as if others are in some way inferior because of what they believe and what they feel works.  I admit that I believe there is an objective truth (and this sometimes this is revealed in my words, much to the chagrin of others)...yet there are many ways to arrive at the truth.  I also believe there is a way to KNOW and be 100% sure, in this life, that you have arrived at the truth.  There is a specific manifestation- a revelation if you will- that anyone may receive.  I do not feel that it is my right to share what this is, but I do know of those who have received it.  The way to receive this manifestation  is to prove to God, and yourself (which is pretty much the same thing, if you understand what I am talking about) that you, through the experiences you have had so far, as an eternal being, will ALWAYS choose the right way- choose the light. . .that you are dedicated to spreading love and desire to follow God and His way.  No one of us, as mortals, is perfect or will be in this life, although I don't think this is impossible (I know I contradicted myself- so is it possible or impossible?- I would say it is possible, but not plausible)...but what I am basically saying is that we must become perfect.  To receive this manifestation that I am speaking of, one does NOT need to be perfect . . .  but one needs to decide, deep down, what he or she truly desires.  

While I am sure that some things, or many things which I have said thus far, can (and will, hopefully) be debated. . .. I believe that we would probably all agree that a all of our experiences require us to make decisions.  We make a specific choice and there is always a consequence.  Do you disagree?  Even when a consequence doesn't seem apparent, it is there...it ripples through the universe and affects the whole, of which we are a part of.  There is opposition in all things...there will always be darkness for without it there wouldn't be light.  In the "end"- I concede that there is no real end- but in the end , at least as I understand it at this point in my existence, that end that many call the "final judgment", will be more of a division.  Who will judge, who will divide?  I think we, as individuals, with a perfect knowledge—or at least with knowledge to perfect memory— will actually judge ourselves.  We will have an advocate, which is nice to know.  Then the division will be made, it won't be a division of black and white, good and evil...but I think there will be gray areas or in other words different levels/planes where beings will feel comfortable, or want to dwell in.  There is even a "hell" (although I don't like to use that word---too much baggage, this place will be OUTER darkness, not just darkness. . .a place for those who have seen the light, accepted and comprehended the light, and then rejected it.  It is very difficult to go there, almost impossible.  The beings who go there are few, for few will accept the light and even fewer will then reject it.  I know I cannot even begin to fully comprehend this, but I will attempt to construct a weak metaphor to illustrate this concept.  To be like those who will live in outer darkness, one would have to go outside on a bright, sunny day in the summer time and look up directly at the sun, and with complete sincerity and a spirit of pure and utter rebellion say, "The sun is not shining."

So where are we going to be when we divide ourselves?  I look around at those in the waking, physical world.  We have divided ourselves by our desires and our beliefs.  Some desire power, others to fulfill their carnal desires. . .  There are those who believe there is no God, that we are not eternal spirits (they are in for a big surprise and a lot of "accelerated learning".  There are those who believe that heaven is as attainable as their willingness to follow dogmas, or sacrifice their lives in the hope of finding a "heaven" in which they basically eat, drink, and be merry.  Some are spiritualists who have discovered they are indeed eternal beings, but other than that they have not decided much of anything else.  Some have discovered that this life is a microcosm of the life to come, with the family unit being a primary key to understanding the cosmological scheme of things—that learning to love and live with another person of the opposite sex and raising and teaching children—allowing them to gain knowledge and love others--is truly at the center of this experience.  

I could go on forever.  My point?  Well, I guess I want to say that I know that every decision counts, including what we believe in...and the life to come isn't that much different than this...it's just that we, at least for a period of time, will shed the "lower physical" (our present, corruptible "physical" body—I keep putting physical in quotations because even our ethereal bodies are physical, just a different kind of matter) and then we will go where we want to be, where we belong—there will be many different levels/planes for us...we will be where we are comfortable.  And then?  What will you do forever?  Strum a harp?  Only YOU know the answer.

I will be grateful for responses to my ideas...I don't pretend to know anything, really, well..you know what I mean.  I love to hear what everyone has to say.  We are all seeking truth and are at some point...and from that point we understand things the way we do.  Ok, I'll stop now  (:


Grace by grace, principle by principle, we strive towards perfection.  

Il mio maestro e' colui che ha vissuto la vita perfetta, il stesso che ha datto la sua vita per noi.