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Author Topic: Flaming  (Read 7906 times)
Sam
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2004, 16:32:59 »

quote:
Originally posted by lullabi

Who said I had a point? [Wink]



So it was a pointless comment.  *scratches head*.  Why say it then?

Any-hoo...

 
quote:
You can't put out a fire with fire. The negativity here has skyrocketed lately, and I think I can safely say that it has all of us concerned.


What negativity?  So far all I've seen is people arguing trying to reach an understanding.  There may have been plenty of emotion involved (which is understandable considering the strength with which everyone holds their opinion) but I think people trying to reach an understanding is a positive thing.  The fact that people are willing to discuss their personal opinions quite openly is also positive.  The fact that a few personal insults may have been made or percieved in emotional moments is negative I will agree, but the process of people being honest and talking about how they really feel is far more positive and constructive than if we all went around thinking we knew everything and didn't talk to other people at all.

 
quote:
You know, if you can Astral Project, has it ever occurred to you to go with Enderwiggin or Spectral Dragon and see what is actually happening, instead of assuming we're all just making this crap up?

Just a challenge, not an attack, you're not gonna die.

James you said you thought maybe you needed more experience. Assuming you can do what I can't, why don't you guys AP and interact with what Spectral and Ender interact with. Look for yourselves.

Has anyone even tried DK's proposal?  Maybe you'll learn something from it.  We can sit here typing out our logic all day long and not learn anything new, why not go and see for yourself, and report back when you're all done?  Everyone here who claims to have the skills it takes, why not take a few hours out of your ever so precious time to find out who we are and what we are doing.  You will find that we never lied, never decieved you, and that your groundless accusations (an example will follow) were uncalled for.

quote:
Methinks she's attempting to scope you out to see if your single. Most people correct false assumptions even when it's weird people making those assumptions.

I find your reasoning to be well fomulated. DK does indeed go in circles. Circular arguements are one way psychic vampires cause others to lower and weaken their defenses thus making them more easily fed upon.

Are you trying to wipe away DK's credibility by asserting that she is a psychic vampite?  You had better have some damn good proof if you are going to make an allegation like that.  Simply pointing the finger and saying "Mummy I don't like her because I think her arguments are circular- SHE MUST BE A VAMPIRE" doesn't cut the cheese I'm afraid... well, unless we are living in medieval europe.  BURN THE WITCH HAHAHAHAHA.

*ahem*

Anyway so if you're going to say DK is a vampire, prove it.  That sort of accusation is potentially hurtful and could destroy her reputation if its false.  I'm sure you wouldn't want to hurt an innocent person.  (remember - innocent until proven guilty, i.e. JUSTICE)

quote:
There also has to be realistic goals to set. To overcome this and take responsiblity, a goal has to be set that is attainable. Setting unrealistic goals that can't be met dooms personal responsiblity from ever getting off the ground. Philosophizing about what the goals might be never solidifies anything or creates anything positive. Failure after failure and precious energy sucked away.

That's not a life. Action creates and solidifies in the physical world we live in, not philosphizing or good intentions.

I agree Dark Knight.  We can sit here all day saying um and ah this and that etc etc, but it gets nothing done.  I think a realistic goal here would be for everyone concerned to try out DK's proposal to AP and see for yourselves what it is we're talking about.  First hand evidence would certainly put to rest any doubts in your minds, and it will also put this clashing of views to a closure.  Or would you rather live your lives in ignorance.  

It's up to everyone to make whatever choice they think is right.

On the subject of flaming, could calling someone "a psychic vampire" be equivalent to name calling?  I would feel a lot more hurt if someone called me a "psychic vampire" than, say, "bubblehead".  If an accuser can offer substantial proof of their accusation then okay, but if not, why aren't they termed name-calling and deleted?  How about if I called someone a peadophile, because they refer to children a lot in their arguments?  How about if I called someone a loser, because they don't have any friends.  I think such comments are made to put people down and I see it as intentionally hurtful.  Calling someone "psychic vampire" without any real background knowledge or observational evidence is the same as childish name calling.
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lullabi
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2004, 17:40:04 »

quote:
Originally posted by Sam

quote:
Originally posted by lullabi

Who said I had a point? [Wink]



So it was a pointless comment.  *scratches head*.  Why say it then?




I don't know, I just felt like saying something. Sorry. [Smiley]
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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2004, 17:40:04 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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wantsumrice
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2004, 17:42:55 »

This is all pointless and a waste of energy in my mind.  What the hell has everyone been drinking lately?  These little battles going on are really starting to get to me.  Namely, the ones between Shedt and DK.  How many posts do y'all gotta hijack?  I've seen this same argument in 3 other posts.  

Enough.
~ivan
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shedt
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2004, 18:07:55 »

I'm not trying to battle anyone. I'm just trying too learn and understand myself. I'm sorry if my questions or responses offended you.

I'm just trying too make sense of all this like everyone else.

I was just trying too be kind and honest and learn.

sorry if that offended you.
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Akensai
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2004, 18:43:13 »

I think everyone agrees that flaming is bad, yet we are well on our way to make the tread a very hot place. It is not the fighting that bothers me most; itís that people fail to make up after. These debates take place on regular basis, but it seems nothing is accomplished.

Perhaps a large part  of the problem is that people refuse to see the other side, everyone (I definitely do at times) hold their argument so close, it seems we are afraid that if we let it go we might actually die in someway, as the person we are at this moment.

I donít want to move in to much spiritual babbling, but I do think the root of the problem lies in our ego, we attach to our current beliefs to much and we have so much desire to be right, for that we much prove someone else wrong, at least that how our ego looks at things.

Thatís not to say debate is wrong, it is needed of us to grow, to change, but the way it is often done now is not going to help anyone. When we share our thoughts, things still going alright its when we go for the ďattackĒ things go wrong, we try to prove someoneís statement wrong, to slice it up whiteout any consideration for the person who wrote them, he really beliefs those things you just so brutally murdered! (How dramatic!)  

The problem is when you canít confront anyone on the beliefs things get very difficult, this is not acceptable either, so you have to find the a way to work around this. First when you going to post an argument against someone beliefs, you have to be respectful and polite against that person, I also feel if you post an argument in disagreement to someoneís beliefs you should make a good constructive argument to why you disagree.

I think we should also learn to agree to disagree and when to keep silent. Sometimes we take things to far this is I think of our desire to be the winner, the one who proves the other wrong, the last one standing, why do we think this so important. Perhaps we should look at the reason for posting a argument, do we post because we want to help a person or do we post to show everyone how right we are?

I also want to say something about the responsibility of communicating, this should indeed be equal, but this is not always the case, it canít be. Sometimes a person is not in the position of taking this responsibility, but what are you going to do, do you forsake that person, that person we perhaps really needs help? You are going to blame him for having these problems and your going to blame him for not being able to share the responsibility because of them? I hope everyone can see this is not possible, if you want to help someone, you give it without a prize. (Even itís a fair actual prize for both) The help whiteout expecting a reward is truly admirable.

Well ill stop now, I already said so much, still I feel I left things unsaid that should be said, but I donít know which at this moment.

Much love,
Akensai.
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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2004, 18:43:13 »



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Dark Knight
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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2004, 19:28:22 »

quote:
I think we should also learn to agree to disagree and when to keep silent.


There is a time and place (A season) to agree to disagree, and there are occasions when the disagreement somehow has to be resolved. There is a time to let go and a time to be right...knowing when is the trick.

I seem to recall writing something on prioritizing values. Here it is:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10576


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James S
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2004, 20:02:38 »

quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Has anyone even tried DK's proposal?  Maybe you'll learn something from it.  We can sit here typing out our logic all day long and not learn anything new, why not go and see for yourself, and report back when you're all done?  Everyone here who claims to have the skills it takes, why not take a few hours out of your ever so precious time to find out who we are and what we are doing.  You will find that we never lied, never decieved you, and that your groundless accusations (an example will follow) were uncalled for.


The problem with this Sam is that for all but the most highly skilled projectors (of which category I am definitely NOT in) there are too many problems inherent with going into the astral with preconcieved notions. If any of us go in looking for proof for or against what's going on here, of course we'll find it, as thought produces form. But it will be almost guaranteed of our own making, not what's really going on.

Anyone wanting to see what's really going on here would have to be experienced at projecting and being able to do so completely unbiased and unknowing of the situation.

Kind regards,
James.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2004, 20:15:21 »

From what I've read on thought forms, there is more to the experience than just that. What about level of intensity? I mean if what Nay is describing is true, you could just change your attitude and pop it goes away...I've questioned Spectral at Length...constantly...on his perceptions and there does appear to be a difference between interacting with a thought form that goes pop and a neg that doesn't.




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James S
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2004, 09:03:23 »

With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.

In some of his old posts, Frank described getting past this point by becoming detached from all expectations and emotions save that of mild curiosity. This allowed him to explore what was really there, not what his mind was pre-disposed to interpreting or creating for him. As an example, at times he found himself in regions just like here on earth. Villages with people - true denizens of the astral planes who live a life there much as we do here.  

Regards,
James.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2004, 09:17:49 »

quote:
With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.


Then I'll ask again, why not go and see for yourselves if they are thought forms or real astral entities. And if you don't want to fine, just don't make assumptions about what people are and are not experiencing.


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Sam
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« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2004, 12:35:06 »

Yes, and then when you fall into our psychic trap we will suck your energy like sweet sweet blood muhahaha!!! [}:)]

Just kidding.  Just trying to lighten things up a little around here...  no?
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Sam
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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2004, 13:13:21 »

quote:
Originally posted by Akensai

I think everyone agrees that flaming is bad, yet we are well on our way to make the tread a very hot place. It is not the fighting that bothers me most; itís that people fail to make up after. These debates take place on regular basis, but it seems nothing is accomplished.


Much of your post made perfect sense Akensai.  People wouldn't need to make up afterwards if they could reach some sort of agreement or compromise.

 
quote:
This is all pointless and a waste of energy in my mind. What the hell has everyone been drinking lately? These little battles going on are really starting to get to me. Namely, the ones between Shedt and DK. How many posts do y'all gotta hijack? I've seen this same argument in 3 other posts.

Okay you're probably not the only one who's getting sick of the arguments, but that's not going to make them go away.  And I don't think they are pointless.  People are trying to reach an understanding, which is very... uh... point-FUL.

The post's aren't being 'hijacked', its just a normal reaction to unresolved disputes.  If two people haven't reached an agreement on an issue of contention then its perfectly natural for that issue to keep coming up whenever the same two people are present and the issue is being somehow referred to.

The mindset of "I wish it would all just go away so we can be nice and friendly and happy again" denies reality.  In reality, by ignoring it, it won't go away, and that will certainly stop you from being nice and friendly and happy again.  In reality, reaching some form of agreement (which means a certain amount of compromise by all sides of an argument) is the only way to go.

Maybe we do need a dispute arena after all, for when things get personal?
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2004, 13:52:00 »

quote:
Originally posted by James S

With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.

In some of his old posts, Frank described getting past this point by becoming detached from all expectations and emotions save that of mild curiosity. This allowed him to explore what was really there, not what his mind was pre-disposed to interpreting or creating for him. As an example, at times he found himself in regions just like here on earth. Villages with people - true denizens of the astral planes who live a life there much as we do here.  

Regards,
James.



This is very true, however there are ways to make sure, like what me and ender did Wink The internet is a lovely thing. You can talk to each other while projecting (assuming you know how to project whithout relaxing???)
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Mick
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2004, 13:53:29 »

quote:
Originally posted by James S

With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.


I think this is sound and something that I have put forward before only that time I was accused by someone of thinking that I must think I was god but they put me right Wink The above is I think core to how well some forms of defence may or not work in that it's efficacy probably has dependence on the nature of the percieved problem plus the individuals ability at the time to (re)structure their own thinking.
I think that much of the wordage recently has simply been around this debate and how a person perhaps somewhat isolated by the experience might start to come to terms and learn to respond appropriately.

At one time I took an interest in the UFO abduction phenomena, this was because for me there seemed to be a crossover between the experiences although for many abductees they see it as a very physical experience. For me it seemed that OOBE could better fit the descriptions.
One aspect that did become apparent that is while the UFO abductees are fairly well served by a range of support groups, better than perhaps the paranormal community provides (AP is in my experience a rare exception) the in fighting was incredible and supports groups can typically have a short life, with that failure several more might be spawned but with more polarised 'answers'. My observation is that while the experiencers themselves can do much for each other simply by being able to share and break their isolation (isolation is a very big part of the ufo abductee experience), it is my view that the 'experts' were the main cause for the actual breakdown of the support group by attempting to lead based upon their own beliefs and all too often the type of content that they required for the shortly to be published book [Wink]. So to Sams point, simply allowing people to present their story and for some quiet probing to draw out details is a big start for many seeking help but they will also be looking for quick fixes having in their mind been burdened long enough so might just wander off with yet more disapointment. No, I do not have the complete answer Sad
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Mick

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2004, 19:03:00 »

I'd like to thank the mods for locking the topic entitled "to all you demon slayers." No, I'm not being sarcastic. That was an inferno waiting to happen. Let's face it, there are two sides to this issue, and both sides seem to feel VERY strongly about it. You can't put out a fire with fire. The negativity here has skyrocketed lately, and I think I can safely say that it has all of us concerned.

With that in mind, I'd like to see another "to all you demon slayers" thread posted, this time WITHOUT the flaming, so that we can all have a logical, civilized argument.

Fat Turkey, in response to your post, sure, at times I was probably inadvertently bragging, and I shouldn't have. Obviously, I need work on my ego. But at the same time, I said what I believed to be true based on the feedback from those I have helped, and I'll let them attest to my actions. Perhaps this is not the place to argue such a thing, but if you feel like posting another thread where we CAN have a civilized argument/discussion about this, then please do. It's too bad it got out of hand the first time.
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