What kind of influence do you think astral entities can have on the physical?

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independentarbiter

I ask this question because of an experience I had almost a year ago, but which I've never really given enough thought to. Here's what happened.

I have this friend who claims to have spiritual abilities, which I was VERY skeptical of at this time. I was sitting up in bed with the lights on, talking to her at around 2am on the phone quietly in my Grandmother's guest bed. She told me she was going to sort of project her perception to the room I was in (remote view?), and was going to astral kiss me or something like that. I lol'd a bit and said ok. Then suddenly she was complaining that she got pushed into the wall sort of violently, and I asked "your wall?", and she said, "no, yours." I asked what she meant and she said that there was some sort of strong, malevolent entity in the room right over me, and it must have shoved her out of the way. At the time she called this being "the old satan" (as opposed to the new? I don't know what she meant), and she said something about it affecting my energy so as to change my future in some way. She sounded awfully fearful, but I was still an avid non-believer, buddy-buddy with Carl Sagan and whatnot, and I just said "huh. Is he still here?" After a few seconds she said, "No...I think he left." Then we talked for maybe a minute more before deciding it was bedtime, and I hit "end call" and dropped my phone arm to the bed, still sitting up with the lights on and my eyes open, when suddenly I couldn't move. I was completely paralyzed from head to toe, just like sleep paralysis, but my eyes were wide open! I could feel something gripping my forearm, like a hand, and I suspected this was related to what was happening. At this time I experienced what I call a duality of consciousness. There were two minds inside my head, and I was very much aware of both of them. There was my mind, and then there was another. The other did not feel as evil as one would expect satan to feel, but it definitely wasn't too friendly. I knew it had no lethal intentions for me because I was inside its mind, to an extent. It sort of had a, "yeah I'll break the rules and step on a lot of toes doing it, I don't give a crap" kind of attitude. I fought this condition for a full 15 seconds before I broke out of this state just like I break out of sleep paralysis. I was extremely startled, because I've never spontaneously fallen into sleep paralysis, and this hasn't happened since. I've only had SP about fifteen times in my life, anyway. Has anybody ever heard of an astral entity spontaneously paralyzing someone and sort of entering their mind like this? Nothing like this has happened since. I certainly don't believe this was satan because even now that I have an open mind I don't believe in satan, and certainly don't think he would give two craps about me anyway. It really didn't feel evil, just not that friendly.

Since that time, I've become skilled at lucid dreaming, and have had my own somewhat mystical experiences and have changed my belief system drastically.

Another thing that happened is a month ago I had a lucid dream where I could fly. I usually would be wobbly and found flying hard to control or maintain but this time I seemed to have the greatest amount of control I've ever had. Since I felt, this time, like I was competent enough to explore the LD state further, I decided I would finally meet my spirit guide. So I flew to where I somehow "knew I needed to go" for this, which ended up being this "tree of knowledge" with a female caretaker or "oracle" of sorts beneath it. The tree seemed to me to be significant, not simply a creation of my imagination. At first it looked as though there was a book hanging from every branch and twig, and I understood that this tree contained knowledge of many, many things. I approached the lady under the tree and I asked her where my spirit guide was because I wanted to meet him/her. Her response was very clear in my mind right after I heard it but unfortunately I took maybe two or three minutes too long after waking to write it down, and so it's not clear ver batum. But what she said was nearly this: "Your spirit guide tried to enter your house, so he is banned. You cannot see him." At the time I immediately knew "house" to mean my body; strange way to word it. At first I was wondering, "what could it mean that my guide tried to get inside my house (body)?" This dream was very bizarre, and if it helps, it didn't feel like the most physical "real-world" realm. Things were a little more conceptual and impression-based than some of the pure sensory, sequential, stable LD's I've had of real places. But anyway, I wonder if perhaps the sleep paralysis/entity contact thing a year ago could have been my spirit guide trying to enter my body. I've been reading lately of an anthropologist from the sixties who studied cultures in which some people had friendly spirits/entities that would occasionally possess them as a means to communicate with them, so who knows.

What do you think?

Selea

Quote from: independentarbiter on May 02, 2013, 10:53:32
But anyway, I wonder if perhaps the sleep paralysis/entity contact thing a year ago could have been my spirit guide trying to enter my body. I've been reading lately of an anthropologist from the sixties who studied cultures in which some people had friendly spirits/entities that would occasionally possess them as a means to communicate with them, so who knows.

What do you think?

Of course it is possible for a spirit/entity/force (or whatever you want to call it) to influence or even possess your body1; those who say it's impossible (because they usually don't believe in the existence of these spirits/entities/forces outside of the scope of their own mind, or at most the "collective mind") it is just because they have not thought about the thing, because whatever you can think or believe these spirits/entities/forces are, in every case they can logically interact with your body.

Let me explain:

- If you think that these spirits/entities/forces exist outside of yourself then you logically accept the possibility of your consciousness to separate (or be separated) from your body. In this case it is obvious that an external consciousness (of whatever nature) can influence your body or even enter it.

- If you think that these spirits/entities/forces are only parts of your mind, then it is perfectly logical that your mind can influence your body, as it is logical to accept the fact that a certain part of your mind can, in certain occurrences, "overdrive" the usual consciousness you recognize as "I".

- If you think that these spirits/entities/forces are the result of the collective unconscious (as Jung said), then you obviously accept the fact that every human being is connected at the root, so it is perfectly logical that, as in the point above, these collective thought-forms can influence your body (and do the same exact things as a subjective part of your mind can).

- If you think that these spirits/entities/forces are both a part of yourself and both external then naturally the same points apply.2

Now, concerning what happened to you and what the entity/spirit/force was, that is very difficult to say; the only one who could have a practical3 answer to that question would be you if you had enough experience to understand what it was. Even if you believe in the existence of spirits existing outside your consciousness it is not said that what happened is certainly a case of such, because even your mind in particular occurrences4 can bring similar results. As for the "old satan", maybe you would find this amusing but it is perfectly possible that your mother could be right; not naturally on that force being literally Satan the entity, but in the sense of it being a force of what you can define the "underworld" (or the wilder aspects of nature or yourself)5.

NOTES:

1 Naturally it's not easy to be possessed, at all (even if you willingly research the experience, as in Vodoun, for example). Most of the possessed people, as in the exorcisms you see around, are not really possessed at all. There have to be certain parameters all connecting at the same time (so to speak) for it to happen. This difficulty arise even more if you aren't open to it or aren't willing, in that case it's almost impossible (at last for what I know and in my experience). Moreover real possession is usually always a temporary phenomena.

2 What it means to think that both apply? In short words those that think such believe that we, as humans, are a schematic representation of the universe (just like it could be a miniature of a city - like in snowballs, for example - vs. the city itself) and as such we can connect to external forces through internal ones because these external forces have a representation in certain parts of our mind. For example: person A) believes that a "demon" is a part of the unconscious, person B) believes that a "demon" is an external force, a person that believes they are both instead believes that through the unconscious you can connect with that external force called a "demon".

3 For example in this case your mother could have acted a sort of hypnosis on yourself (or maybe you did it by yourself with what she said). Depending on your state of mind at the moment, the way your mother did talk etc. this can, indeed happen. Naturally this is just an example, I'm not saying that this is what it happened.

4 Note the practical, and not true. What's the "truth" about these things nobody knows and probably it can be that nobody will ever know. The most important thing is that if what you do (and your personal truth or what you consider as such) works for you or not. Better a working self-delusion than hundreds of not working supposed "realities".

5 Btw the same Satan of the bible (usually as Beelzebub or more later Lucifer) was taken in traditional witchcraft just as the role of the underworld. Later researchers on witchcraft and western traditions (as Ginzburg, Webster or Cardini) have in fact demonstrated that witchcraft was a form of shamanism and sorcery.

independentarbiter

Wow, thanks for such a long post Selea!   :-)

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I really cannot say for certain if I believe that event was genuine or a figment of my imagination. In the past, I've had instances of sleep paralysis (waking up into the condition, never the other way around) where I have hallucinatory experiences, like hearing someone shouting my name or seeing splotches of color, as well as other sensations, so it very well could have been a creation of my mind. However, it would be irresponsible of me not to give a great deal of credibility to the experience considering the circumstances under which it happened and also considering that I've never spontaneous fallen into sleep paralysis with my eyes open and with little fatigue.

By the way, I do not believe in powerful, evil entities akin to demons. I do not believe in the bible as nonfiction, or stories of Lucifer and whatnot. Even if they exist, I do not fear them particularly, so that sort of detracts from their power anyway. I think I may continue to meditate on this and attempt to learn more through dreams.

I guess what I'm most interested in is the second story in my first post. I really want to know what's up with my guide and I want to speak with him face to face. I neglected to mention my first experience with trying to contact my spirit guide. This was after the sleep paralysis/entity thing by a month or two. I meditated before going to bed and set the clear intention to meet my guide in my dreams, because I wanted to ask him some questions. I had a flying dream which I love because they are rare. The dream isn't important, but at one point during it I picked up a phone to call my friend and as soon as I put the receiver to my ear everything faded away and I was suddenly nowhere. Suddenly everything became a little too "real". A masculine entity appeared right in front of me, totally black like a silhouette and appeared to be wearing a fedora tilted down so I couldn't see his face. He said slyly in a deep, powerful voice, with a small smirk, "What shall you be asking of me?". At this point I experienced great fear of the entity for no real reason. I was scared out of my mind, because this being didn't seem like a dream character, it seemed a little bit too clever and real, and for some reason this terrified me. After a moment, the fear woke me before I even had the chance to ask anything. It wasn't until the moment I woke that I realized that it was probably my guide.

I strongly suspect that my guide is not the warm, friendly type, but more of a sleek, sly, con-man kind of person who is on my side. I will revisit my attempts to contact him when I get through finals week and have some time to relax.

Selea

Quote from: independentarbiter on May 02, 2013, 14:14:37
I strongly suspect that my guide is not the warm, friendly type, but more of a sleek, sly, con-man kind of person who is on my side. I will revisit my attempts to contact him when I get through finals week and have some time to relax.

True guides are usually never the loving and tender ones that you see described around. Actually that's almost a sure way to know that your guide is much probably just a part of your ego. True guides are never condescending with yourself and actually they can be very harsh. The first encounter with a real guide usually brings a sense of inner unease, like you have with something alien/unknown to yourself. Depending on the nature of the guide this sensation can in fact be a sense of internal fear (that, as I explained in another post, it is not an intellectual one, it is a body sensation); usually this happens mostly with guides that pertains to the so-called "underworld".

Also Crowley speaks about this thing:

"Now the proof that one is in contact with an independent entity depends on a sensation which ought to be unmistakeable if one is in good health. One ought not to be liable to mistake one's own sensible impressions for somebody else's! It is only Man's incurable vanity that makes the Astral "Strayed Reveller" or the mystic confuse his own drunken babble with the voice of the Most High.

The essence of the right sensation consists in recognition of the reality of the other Being. There will be as a rule some element of hostility, even when the reaction is sympathetic. One's "soul-mate" (even) is not thought of as oneself, at first contact.

One must therefore insist that any real appearance of the Astral Plane gives the sensation of meeting a stranger. One must accept it as independent, be it Archangel or Elf, and measure one's own reaction to it. One must learn from it, though one despise it; and love it, however one loathe it.

One must realize, on writing up the record, that the meeting has effected a definite change in oneself. One must have known and felt something alien, and not merely tried on a new dress.

There must always be some slight pang of pain in a true Astral Vision; it hurts the Self to have to admit the existence of a not-Self; and it taxes the brain to register a new thought. This is true at the first touch, even when exaltation and stimulation result from the joy of making an agreeable contact.
"

It seems to me you are doing well. If your guide is really coming from the underworld you should be happy. For practical purposes they are some of the best, but they also require a lot from you.

Astralzombie

IMO, true possession isn't possible even if you wanted it. Perhaps an entity can match your "vibration" or "frequency" enough to make it appear as if it is inside of you but this would only be an illusion. And once an entity is operating on the same "wave length" as your thoughts, you then do the rest of the work for them through your beliefs. In effect, if you accept that you are possessed, you accept that you are no longer in control.You are not your physical body so there is little to be gained from an entity possessing it.

With that said, I know the feeling of the mental duality that you are speaking of. Only my experience was in the NPR and I was the "possessor" or violator as I prefer to call it. It was not by choice but I found myself in the body of a soldier. I was panicked by the war as was he and my presence only complicated the matter. We sensed each other and he clearly felt violated by my presence. I wanted to leave, I really did, but every time I did, the soldier would lose consciousness and succumb to his wounds which were fatal. I believe that I was the only thing keeping him alive. I'm not sure what the lesson was to be had but I learned that we can prolong someone's misery by not letting go since that's all I really did was keep this soldier alive longer than he need to be.

Sorry about that detour.

As far as why your guide would want to possess you, I have no idea as to why that would be so. In my experience, they usually approach you in a manner that is most congruent with your current beliefs and mindset. They will evolve as your beliefs do. Some say this is proof that they are a construct of yourself but that isn't necessarily so. What use is a guide to someone if it's true form scares the bejezzus out of you every time you see it?

Anyways, understand that I am only telling you what I believe and it may not be the truth. Anybody that claims they know the truth is in a belief trap. The only thing I can say with certainty is that we get what we believe.

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
Mark Twain

Selea

Quote from: its_all_bad on May 02, 2013, 17:56:21
Some say this is proof that they are a construct of yourself but that isn't necessarily so. What use is a guide to someone if it's true form scares the bejezzus out of you every time you see it?

The use of a guide is in what it can teach you, especially of things that have a practical function. As for fear in this case, that's an automatic response of your body to a certain type of external influence (like it happens with your cells fighting extraneous substances). With the passing of time your body get accustomed to it and then the fear subsides.


Quote from: its_all_bad on May 02, 2013, 17:56:21
Anyways, understand that I am only telling you what I believe and it may not be the truth. Anybody that claims they know the truth is in a belief trap. The only thing I can say with certainty is that we get what we believe.

Nobody knows the truth about these things, however we humans are composed in a certain way (our brain is chemically done in a certain way, our bones are composed of certain minerals and so on) so certain experiences are akin to everybody and you can usually find them in every framework inside the external belief system.
In this particular case our human brain react in a very specific manner with an outside thought or something that the body perceives as external to itself (being it true or not).